Kill or Sell my security app?

etherim

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Jun 20, 2022
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I developed a security app around 5 years ago, using a firm of programmers to keep it up to date and adding upgrades etc. It runs on PC, Mac, iPhone and Android and stores customers secret and important data including password and that sort of stuff but syncs across multiple platforms. But it's now costing me more to keep it up to Apple's latest releases (and now Google too) that I can't afford it. It has users around the world and it will be such a shame to kill it so my other option is to try sell it. I also worked with a local 6th form college to engage students to make the user guide videos as part of their studies.

The challenge is, as a security related app containing private data I don't want to let some random person take it and potentially misuse it so I'm a bit stuck. I won't name it here but happy to provide details to the right and genuine person who may be interested in taking it on. I'd be looking to cover my costs rather than sell it for a big profit.

Any sensible suggestions welcome on how i can find a suitable next owner/developer, or if you are interested pls get in touch for more info.
Thanks
Mike
 
U

UkAppCoder

etherim:
But it's now costing me more to keep it up to Apple's latest releases (and now Google too) that I can't afford it.

If you can't afford to continue developing it, then it can't be profitable! In that case, what makes you think that someone is going to pay you in order to make losses?!
 
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etherim

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If you can't afford to continue developing it, then it can't be profitable! In that case, what makes you think that someone is going to pay you in order to make losses?!
Yeah I built the app for myself and friends more than selling it but it's sold anyway. If it was marketed it would sell. If I was a developer with my own coders the business model would make more sense but I have to pay for coding changes hence the numbers don't add up any more. Someone already developing apps with the skills in the 4 platforms it supports would not incur the same costs i do and could promote and sell it.
 
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Paul FilmMaker

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    Yeah I built the app for myself and friends more than selling it but it's sold anyway. If it was marketed it would sell. If I was a developer with my own coders the business model would make more sense but I have to pay for coding changes hence the numbers don't add up any more. Someone already developing apps with the skills in the 4 platforms it supports would not incur the same costs i do and could promote and sell it.

    Why don't you market it? Run a limited marketing campaign over the next 12 months. If it works, then you're making money. If not, then bin it.
     
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    etherim:
    Yeah I built the app for myself and friends more than selling it but it's sold anyway. If it was marketed it would sell.

    I wasn't going to say anything because you said that you didn't want to name your app here, but since it sounds like you're trying to stick it up someone else, I think I should.

    The app is called Password Pig, and it was created by Createanet:


    The app has had 10,000 installs. Now I've heard, but can't verify, that the average percentage of users which review apps is about 5%. If this is true, then your app should have had about 500 reviews, but it has only 48. Have you or your developers been buying installs? I'm not saying there's anything morally wrong with this because those people installing apps for payment might very well end up liking it and might give it a favourable review - this happens. However, after so many such installs, I think it is bad marketing to continue buying installs without some other marketing techniques such as improving the app, audience targeting, etc..

    Yesterday evening, the rating for Password Pig was 4.4 stars. This morning it is 3.7 stars. Has anybody downgraded their review? At 10% in-app purchases of £10 each, you should have made about £10,000 - £2,000 per year, which is about £40 per week.

    Last updated: July 2018. First review: April 2017. Last review: June 2019.


    It looks like you've got yourself into a bit of a pickle with this app - not necessarily the end of the world, but this depends on a few things including how it has been developed.

    You could consider a hand-over to a proper development team and do some proper marketing. For the hand-over, I would estimate between £5,000 and £10,000 depending on the development model which has hitherto been used, documentation, development team, etc.. How many developers have you had working on it? Have they been organised into a proper team with qualified leaders? (Looking at Createanet's website, I suspect not.) What academic qualifications do they have? How much work experience do they have? Has the owner of Creatanet been employing cheap third world developers?

    etherim:
    If I was a developer with my own coders the business model would make more sense but I have to pay for coding changes hence the numbers don't add up any more.

    I could be totally wrong, but this really sounds like you're trying to convince someone to take it off your hands and carry the bags down for you whilst you recover your losses.

    etherim:
    Someone already developing apps with the skills in the 4 platforms it supports would not incur the same costs i do and could promote and sell it.

    Whenever a software developer shows you a long list of language and software design pattern skills which this would require, and they tell you that they would be able to provide all these skills simultaneously, then you should immediately show them the door. They might have had experience in all of the skills they mention at different times, but it would be absolutely impossible for anyone to provide all these skills at the same time to a level which would be acceptable in terms of speed, efficiency and competence. Your project would never be completed. You would need an organised team whose members work concurrently.
     
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    etherim

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    Why don't you market it? Run a limited marketing campaign over the next 12 months. If it works, then you're making money. If not, then bin it.

    Thanks Paul. As I outsource the coding and Apple and Google need updates done I can't afford to do that and market it too. I think based on the feedback here I'll just kill it. Real shame after 5 years or whatever it is. Since someone just shared the app details take a look at www.passwordpig.co.uk and you'll see it.
     
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    fisicx

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    Must admit to being a bit confused. On my laptop/Mac the browser remembers all my logins. On my iPhone I have Face ID and haven’t needed to enter a password for years.

    In any case, $2.99 is way too cheap.
     
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    stugster

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    You've also potentially got some inherent problems with security if the Master Password can be recovered:

    Unlike some other Password Managers, if you forget your Master Password all is not lost! By creating a username, security question & answer and by providing your email address we make the Master Password recoverable.

    There's a really good reason why the Master Password should not be recoverable.
     
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    estwig

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    You've also potentially got some inherent problems with security if the Master Password can be recovered:



    There's a really good reason why the Master Password should not be recoverable.

    You can recover the master password with LastPass, this is the Daddy of password managers.

    I believe there are a lot of hoops to jump through, to get at it, but you can recover it.
     
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    You can recover the master password with LastPass, this is the Daddy of password managers.
    I believe there are a lot of hoops to jump through, to get at it, but you can recover it.
    That and other recovery packages are why I keep my passwords in my head as a multiplier triggered by a code that I have written on a piece of paper. Each site has a three-letter code that represents a multiplier of a set of numbers and letters so that every password is completely different to every other password. And no need to store them anywhere.
     
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    estwig

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    That and other recovery packages are why I keep my passwords in my head as a multiplier triggered by a code that I have written on a piece of paper. Each site has a three-letter code that represents a multiplier of a set of numbers and letters so that every password is completely different to every other password. And no need to store them anywhere.
    I understand this system, it's a great system, it works.

    It doesn't recognise login boxes and enter the login details for you, across multiple devices and different platforms. I use windows with firefox and edge, android with firefox and samsung internet, and apple with safari and firefox.

    For me, LastPass is the best thing since sliced bread!
     
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    gpietersz

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    LastPass has had a few security issues. I would suggest KeePassXC as the current best bet. A much smaller attack surface.

     
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    gpietersz

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    Whenever a software developer shows you a long list of language and software design pattern skills which this would require, and they tell you that they would be able to provide all these skills simultaneously, then you should immediately show them the door.

    I agree in principle that too long a lost of skills is suspicious (although that does not stop them appearing in job ads!), but a lot of people do create cross platform apps. There are cross platform frameworks that work well on Windows, Mac, Linux and Unix and mobile ones that work on the two major mobile platforms so only really two skill sets required.
     
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    gpieterz:
    I agree in principle that too long a lost of skills is suspicious (although that does not stop them appearing in job ads!),

    I would not say that it is "suspicious". It is entirely possible to have a long list of skills, it's just that they can't be practiced all at once by a single developer. Teams are required for complex software projects. A single developer would spend far too much time on revision. It can take hours, days, sometimes weeks to get back up to speed with complex skills that haven't been practiced for a while. These skills take a long time to learn, but are very quick to evaporate if not used regularly and often! :)

    And then there are all the various complex components in a given project to consider. These components can't be developed sequentially because together they form an integrated system. Such a project must be coordinated and managed efficiently.

    gpieterz:
    There are cross platform frameworks that work well on Windows, Mac, Linux and Unix and mobile ones that work on the two major mobile platforms ...

    I believe you that some work well. Unfortunately, "well" is not good enough. Complex projects require as near to perfect as you can possibly get. But it does sound great in theory, and I honestly wish there was such a system.

    When I started programming apps and games, I tried my utmost to avoid Android Studio, Java, iOS, Swift, etc.. I tried my best to find a single system which I could use to produce apps for both Android and iOS. Like you, I thought that it would be much easier and a lot less work.

    I considered Google's Flutter. This looked like the most developed system. I thought if anyone can do this, then Google can. But after more reading, I decided not to risk it because of previous bad experience in this area.

    So I got into Android programming. My intention was to also learn Apple's equivalent system for iOS. However, it turns out that the Android system alone is so complex that it actually needs a specialist team in itself! Obviously then, the Apple system is going to be just as complex, and so I've decided to outsource the iOS apps. I will be able to use the same engineering and design specifications more or less with some adjustments, and the coding should be easy enough for a specialist Swift programmer.

    Another thing, I would never entertain such a complex project from an indie developer or even a small team. I mean, just look at the output from the Python/Kivy team in the mobile games space. After all these years, Kivy still feels like a cult hobbyist project compared to the Android system.

    And Flutter is still too experimental and immature. I'm fully convinced that I took the best possible route when I decided to go with Android Studio, along with Java (in which I have some experience over the years) and the Android framework, and to outsource the iOS work. I know I will be able to provide the best quality apps for my users.

    gpieterz:
    ... so only really two skill sets required.

    I assume you meant to say "two skills" rather than "two skill sets". Anyway, as I've already suggested above, there are literally dozens of skills required across software engineering and programming. Some of them take years to master. This would still be true if there was a single framework. In theory, engineering skills should be generic and applicable to many different programming languages and tools. It is different in the real world. There are a few differences which have been dictated by programming requirements specific to the operating systems and languages.

    After reading your message, I did take another quick look around, and I checked on the progress of Google's Flutter. It seems that nothing much has changed. I'm in two minds about this project. One minute I can't see this ever happening to such an extent that the specialist skills for Android and iOS will become obsolete. But on the other hand, this is Google, and so the Google Flutter experiment will continue. But even for them, they will find it hard to keep up with Android and iOS continuing to develop. At best, it's going to take a long time for it to become mainstream and dominate. I don't have the time to wait around. In my opinion, the only way that there could be a single development system any time soon would be if Android and iOS were to merge, or form some kind of partnership to build such a system. Until then, I'll let young ones be the guinea pigs! :)

    Another important point to note is that Android and iOS are two completely different technologies producing the same thing - a bit like, say, VHS and Betamax. I think that it would be so difficult to merge them into a system which performed as well as the original individual systems, that it would be better to let one of them die and the other to dominate - similar to how VHS eventually won out over Betamax.

    And Flutter requires the user to learn Dart. Programming languages are obviously an integral part of the core of any software development system. This means that Android and iOS specialists would need to stop using their current respective languages. This is especially disadvantageous for Android developers who use Java because Java is so ubiquitous and is useful in many different areas. Java is so important that it replaced SmallTalk as the language used in the Open University's object-oriented degree modules. I doubt that Dart will ever compete with Java on this level because it is too specialised. This presents an extra obstacle for the development of a single framework.
     
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    gpietersz

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    After reading your message, I did take another quick look around, and I checked on the progress of Google's Flutter. It seems that nothing much has changed.
    I have heard the same from other mobile app developers. On the other hand a lot of people seem to be using React Native already. Maybe depending on the functionality required. A lot of mobile apps do not do anything you could not do with a website - and sometimes I even prefer the website (Curiosity Stream and Nebula Android apps for example). On top of that there are already people who know React and it would mean they can share code between web and mobile apps.
    I think that it would be so difficult to merge them into a system which performed as well as the original individual systems, that it would be better to let one of them die and the other to dominate

    The difference is VHS is a standard so there were competing manufacturer. Letting one of these systems dominate would mean we would go from a duopoly (bad enough!) to a monopoly.
    And Flutter requires the user to learn Dart
    Its a nicer language than Javascript, and learning a language itself is not that hard.

    While Java is widely used Android does not use the JVM and outside Android other JVM languages are becoming more popular.

    Java is so important that it replaced SmallTalk as the language used in the Open University's object-oriented degree modules.

    I know. I think its a pity. Smalltalk is much better language for learning OOP, even if there are not many jobs for it. The same goes for MIT replacing Scheme with Python for their introductory programming class - the one on which the brilliant book Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs was based.
     
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