Just Stop Oil - employee involvement...

[Newchodge]

King Charles has been raising concerns about the environment for years, and he was portrayed as a loony tree-hugger.

On the other hand, the protestors are doing themselves and their cause no favours by doing this. They're just going to turn the public against them.

How do you suggest progress could be made, then? Given the failures to take effective action for the past 30+ years?

 

[japancool]

How do you suggest progress could be made, then? Given the failures to take effective action for the past 30+ years?

I dunno, but losing support from the public isn't going make effective action any quicker.

Maybe they need to find a photogenic 15-year old British schoolgirl to front their protests. That seems to make governments pay attention.

 

[Mark T Jones]

On the other hand, the protestors are doing themselves and their cause no favours by doing this. They're just going to turn the public against them.

I'd suggest that you are wrong; that they aren't seeking 'likes" or 'follows"

The aim is to get attention and get people talking - which nobody can dispute they are achieving. With the sweet irony that the people bringing most attention to them are the haters.

Emily Davidson was mocked and derided history has recorded her as in instrument of positive change and the mockers as narrow-minded dinosaurs

Swampy and his tree-living friends were mocked and derided History has recorded them as instruments of positive change and their critics as narrow minded dinosaurs

The Greenham Common women were mocked and derided history has recodered

You get the drift

 

[paulears]

Surely everyone's views on climate change and saving the world while worthy, have nothing to do with the circumstances. It appears quite simple to me. Assuming he was not arrested for a crime, then all he is guilty of is having a strong opinion. Anyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter what it is. If a firm makes Everton merchandising items, would being on TV spotted in the Liverpool crowd be grounds for dismissal? This is daft. However - a Liverpool supporter amongst his everton workmates would surely create the same kind of animosity - but while some would be outraged, most would not see it as a serious issue. Don't we have behaviour standards for the workplace? Whatever we think of what these idiots - sorry, very concerned citizens do, until a law is broken, or a contract standard abused, we have to put up with this kind of thing.

If they skived off to do it that would be one thing, but peaceful protest, not breaking the law, would seem a protected right? Hypocritical maybe to work for a firm you consider a bad one, but I guess we cannot expect every employee to 100% support the aims of their employer as long as they don't work against it.

Could a vegan work for Bernard Matthews? Some probably do - and have a troubled or clear conscience.

 

[Newchodge]

Surely everyone's views on climate change and saving the world while worthy, have nothing to do with the circumstances. It appears quite simple to me. Assuming he was not arrested for a crime, then all he is guilty of is having a strong opinion. Anyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter what it is. If a firm makes Everton merchandising items, would being on TV spotted in the Liverpool crowd be grounds for dismissal? This is daft. However - a Liverpool supporter amongst his everton workmates would surely create the same kind of animosity - but while some would be outraged, most would not see it as a serious issue. Don't we have behaviour standards for the workplace? Whatever we think of what these idiots - sorry, very concerned citizens do, until a law is broken, or a contract standard abused, we have to put up with this kind of thing.

If they skived off to do it that would be one thing, but peaceful protest, not breaking the law, would seem a protected right? Hypocritical maybe to work for a firm you consider a bad one, but I guess we cannot expect every employee to 100% support the aims of their employer as long as they don't work against it.

Could a vegan work for Bernard Matthews? Some probably do - and have a troubled or clear conscience.

I am helping deal with an issue at a small licensed cafe. One member of staff has converted to Islam and will have nothing to do with service of pork or alcohol. There is no way this type and size of business can accomodate such a requirement, so we are just going through the process of ensuring the dsicrimination potential is dealt with before dismissal for SOSR.

 

[The Byre]

The bad news: climate change threatens one in every three species with extinction. The good news: we're one of them. So, is it really climate change - or is the Earth just taking revenge?

From Buzzfeed - “It’s Now Or Never”: The Next Three Years Are Crucial To Preventing The Worst Impacts Of Climate Change. (Judging by what we've done so far, my money is on 'never'!)

How do you suggest progress could be made, then? Given the failures to take effective action for the past 30+ years?

I started an environmental movement with a friend 50 years ago - we called it The Society for Alternative Lifestyles. Eight years later, it and others like it combined to form the German Green Party.

That's right - you were all warned 50 years ago! 33 years ago Margret Thatcher warned you all! Before that, Prince Charles warned you. All sorts of people warned you! Now Derick has glued his stupid face to the M25, politicians only paid lip service to a teenage girl and Deirdre is waving her knickers up a gantry - nobody is listening. That is the truth of the matter - humanity is dumb. And it's getting dumber!

(This all reminds me of a consultant oncologist I knew who smoked. He died of lung cancer. So maybe there is a god after all - who knew!)

So when we've finished destroying Planet Earth, where were we all thinking of going? Has anyone thought this through?

Hmmm . . .

 

[redspan]

Having had the painful experience of watching and listening to Just Stop Oil protesters in the media over the past few weeks, its seems they are incapable of answering a straight question or debating the issues rationally. They're robotic in their replies and well trained in their obfuscation and avoidance of facts. On the other hand, consider this:

We are reaping the rewards of 50 years of dumbing down education, politicised poor science, a green public service, tampering with the primary temperature data record and the dismissal of common sense as extreme right-wing politics. There has been a deliberate attempt to frighten poorly-educated young people about a hypothetical climate emergency by the mainstream media, uncritically acting as stenographers for green activists.

Article: https://dailysceptic.org/2022/11/14/climate-models-can-never-work-says-computer-modeller/

 

[japancool]

I'd suggest that you are wrong; that they aren't seeking 'likes" or 'follows"

I disagree. It's the public who will force any change in government and company policies, and you need to have the public sympathetic towards your cause. If you've pissed them off by disrupting their lives, it's not going to help - it will tar everyone who cares about the issue with the same brush.

 

[The Byre]

They're robotic in their replies and well trained in their obfuscation and avoidance of facts.

That sad fact applies to both sides - and politicians in particular!

Just imagine that Climate Change (and yes, it IS changing!) were not due to CO2 but was just down to the factors governing the Milankovitch cycle and that from here on, the planet will gradually cool down after a while. Or maybe the cycle is over-oscillating and we go back to a planet that is 17C warmer - as in the Jurassic period.

But either way, imagine that it is not CO2 that is the problem!

So what else are we doing that may destroy the planet and make our lives less pleasant?

Of course, we are not really going to destroy Planet Earth. It will still be here after we are gone. But the prolific pollution we are engaged in and the poisoning of our food will continue. In reality, it's not the planet that is in danger - it's our continued existence we are toying with!

But I think it is a safe bet to say that global warming is a combination of the Milankovitch cycle and our idiotic desire to pave over every inch of our cities, pump out CO2, destroy forests and replace them with monocultures that pander to our collective desire to eat poisonous processed foods - thereby making humanity even less likely to survive.

And of course, medical science will continue to advance, meaning that even more fat, ugly, stupid people will survive and live just long enough to have sex with similar creatures - and multiply the stock of fat, ugly and stupid people!

But I remain eternally optimistic and I believe that if nanoparticles keep getting pumped out in the form of various types of pollution, making us less and less able to procreate, there will be fewer and fewer of us to poison the atmosphere.

Well, I can dream, can't I?

 

[simon field]

I’ve always believed that a healthier planet is one with less humans on it, whether or not humans have anything to do with the latest climate fluctuation in a very very long line of climate fluctuations.

But people get all emotional and silly and think humans are doing a really nice job of looking after their home.

Hint: they aren’t, and they won’t!

 

[redspan]

Whether you think we're in imminent danger of drowning, burning, or starving, or whether you think climate change is another con trick, stirred up with scaremongering using bad data and inaccurate models, all designed to suck us dry of whatever is left after lockdowns, there is an intersection between the two viewpoints.

There are all kinds of urgent and important tasks that need to be done without further delay in order to help protect the environment and repair some of the damage done by our species.

For example, plant billions of trees (in Pakistan, to help stop floods for a start), replant lost rainforest, clean the oceans of plastic, protect nature reserves and endangered species.

However, middle class eco-activists preventing working class Britons (and Italians) from going to work, going to a hospital appointment (that's taken months to come around), or going to the funeral of a close relative, ain't gonna save Mother Earth.

And stopping people from flying means the income that keeps wildlife projects going in remote parts of the world is at risk of drying up. Eco-tourists are not going to sail and catch a bus to Rwanda to see the gorillas.

 

[paulears]

Are we not, as a country, doing pretty well? We have made enormous progress in the last 100 years here, and our cities are cleaner than they have ever been. The smell of a coal fire is now a surprise when you go for a walk, yet growing up in the 60s, everyone had coal fires. Landfill is now dreadful, yet one of the nice green areas of our town has only recently been revealed (on Facebook) as the site of the old town dump! It's grass and the the place where people go for walks now.

We don't get the fogs, and the chest screen clinic appointments I went to each year as a kid are long gone.

Yet - we're in a headlong rush to cut carbon footprint to zero. We're in a massive recession, the Government has no money and we have hordes of illegal immigration. If we cannot even fund the NHS - I'm sorry but the protesters are clearly nuts. They need to get a grip on reality. Sure - there are lots of foreign countries doing things badly. However - we are NOT a super power, with gazillions of tax payers to fund the cure. We're a tiny country and we have problems at home.

I'm all in favour of my taxes benefitting this country. I am totally against supporting the rest of the world, until we can afford it. Why is a little country like ours trying to even try. We have two countries at war, for Gods sake - yet we have crazy people believing stopping a motorway is more important than working for peace.

Many of the polluting countries don't even like us very much - so why is it our responsibility and not their own Government's.

We seem to despise our Empire history, yet these loonies clearly believe we still have the Empire power. As a concept, I understand their concerns, but they are behaving so ridiculously that they are a joke - rather like the peace movement in the 70s. All those CND people equally certain they were right.

 

[japancool]

And stopping people from flying

Which apparently is a good thing unless you happen to be flying to a climate change conference or a meeting of the G20.

Or the World Cup.

 

[redspan]

Which apparently is a good thing unless you happen to be flying to a climate change conference or a meeting of the G20.

Or the World Cup.

Precisely. It's a farce.

Keep flying and keep economies growing. Aviation generates wealth and wealth gives people the means to improve health, education, and infrastructure.

 

[japancool]

Precisely. It's a farce.

Keep flying and keep economies growing. Aviation generates wealth and wealth gives people the means to improve health, education, and infrastructure.

They should ban short-haul flights. Sorry, no more flying to Majorca or Minorca or Ibiza to drink and take drugs. Have to do it the old fashioned way, or stay home and drink and take drugs in Britain.

 

[redspan]

They should ban short-haul flights. Sorry, no more flying to Majorca or Minorca or Ibiza to drink and take drugs. Have to do it the old fashioned way, or stay home and drink and take drugs in Britain.

Nope.

What they should do is develop regional airports and run short haul flights from their, taking some weight of the bigger hubs. New aero technology is making short haul quieter, leaner, and cleaner.

Don't mind people staying at home and taking drugs, as long as it's psilocybin or similar, not the brain rotting ones.

 

[paulears]

I've just spent an hour catching up on their media interviews - they really come across as totally crazy people - they've all got the same theme, which I do understand, but their media training is sadly lacking if they want ordinary people to have empathy for what they are doing. They have a point of course, but really have no idea of how people older than them actually think, what their history is, and any real understanding of the fact that what they are asking is just not doable in their childish way of thinking. They don't even understand the language they use - and one even told ITV that he never watches their morning program that he was on, when they have a weather girl who is pretty expert at climate change science and has written books about it. How stupid.

 

[Newchodge]

The bad news: climate change threatens one in every three species with extinction. The good news: we're one of them. So, is it really climate change - or is the Earth just taking revenge?

From Buzzfeed - “It’s Now Or Never”: The Next Three Years Are Crucial To Preventing The Worst Impacts Of Climate Change. (Judging by what we've done so far, my money is on 'never'!)


I started an environmental movement with a friend 50 years ago - we called it The Society for Alternative Lifestyles. Eight years later, it and others like it combined to form the German Green Party.

That's right - you were all warned 50 years ago! 33 years ago Margret Thatcher warned you all! Before that, Prince Charles warned you. All sorts of people warned you! Now Derick has glued his stupid face to the M25, politicians only paid lip service to a teenage girl and Deirdre is waving her knickers up a gantry - nobody is listening. That is the truth of the matter - humanity is dumb. And it's getting dumber!

(This all reminds me of a consultant oncologist I knew who smoked. He died of lung cancer. So maybe there is a god after all - who knew!)

So when we've finished destroying Planet Earth, where were we all thinking of going? Has anyone thought this through?

Hmmm . . .

I fancy somewhere warmer than NE England Hmm...

I've just spent an hour catching up on their media interviews - they really come across as totally crazy people - they've all got the same theme, which I do understand, but their media training is sadly lacking if they want ordinary people to have empathy for what they are doing. They have a point of course, but really have no idea of how people older than them actually think, what their history is, and any real understanding of the fact that what they are asking is just not doable in their childish way of thinking. They don't even understand the language they use - and one even told ITV that he never watches their morning program that he was on, when they have a weather girl who is pretty expert at climate change science and has written books about it. How stupid.

They are not paid professionals!

 

[paulears]

True - they are not paid professionals, but some media training is not that difficult - politicians all take a course on how to manage TV appearances.

 

[redspan]

I was part of the environmental movement in the 1970s. I used to send cheques to a small office in London where a few guys calling themselves Greenpeace were trying to stop the French testing nukes in the Pacific, and trying to save whales from slaughter. What became of them I wonder?

The marches we went on were always infiltrated by the far left - Socialist Workers Party, Trostkyists, Communists etc - never there for the prime reason, always there to recruit, always looking for a fight with police.

Today, ER's founders have openly admitted that they're main cause is the destruction of capitalism. Even Greta has nodded in that direction. Climate alarmism is a means to an end and the JSO protesters are their useful idiots.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

But we (as in society) do act on those things. For the most part we have regulation or we have medical support.
Thatcher raised serious concerns about the environment in 1989 https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/107817

Since then neither the government nor society has done anything effective about it.

(Ye gods it comes to something when I am quoting Thatcher with approval).

Regulation and medical support has come about due to overwhelming public pressure, need to capture votes etc., now, today, yet still we have problems in all the areas I mentioned.

My point remains, that you can protest, tie yourself to a tree, march in numbers, deliver petitions, speak out on public and digital platforms for whatever cause you wish. You should not affect the daily lives and livelihoods of every citizen by disrupting the transport system.

On the other hand, the protestors are doing themselves and their cause no favours by doing this. They're just going to turn the public against them.

Exactly

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

How do you suggest progress could be made, then? Given the failures to take effective action for the past 30+ years?

Given that you can't see a better way, will we see you on a gantry over the M25 or glued to a busy highway any time soon?

 

[Newchodge]

Given that you can't see a better way, will we see you on a gantry over the M25 or glued to a busy highway any time soon?

No, because I don't, personally, think that helps. My opinion is hardly relevant.

Plus. I live in NE England. I wouldn't wsate the resources to get to the M25.

 

[japancool]

Superglue, interestingly, is produced using acrylic acid, which is produced by oxidising propylene. Propylene is a byproduct of ethylene and... gasoline.

 

[Bob Morgan]

I am helping deal with an issue at a small licensed cafe. One member of staff has converted to Islam and will have nothing to do with service of pork or alcohol. There is no way this type and size of business can accomodate such a requirement, so we are just going through the process of ensuring the dsicrimination potential is dealt with before dismissal for SOSR.

How did you deal with the interruption of work for 'Prayer' and the facilities that have to be provided for it. Then factor-in Prayer Times during the day - There are 5, but 3 will undoubtedly occur during working hours. There is lots more to consider other than Pork and Alcohol! - Are they 'Cherry Picking?'

 

[Newchodge]

How did you deal with the interruption of work for 'Prayer' and the facilities that have to be provided for it. Then factor-in Prayer Times during the day - There are 5, but 3 will undoubtedly occur during working hours. There is lots more to consider other than Pork and Alcohol! - Are they 'Cherry Picking?'

No, solutions have been found for those matters, during those discussions the individual stated that they did not think serving pork or alcohol would be an issue. Now, apparently, it is an issue. However in a small establishment, when the maximum number of front of house staff at any time is 2, and pulled pork ciabattas are the best seller, it is difficult to find an effective way around this. The imam, when consulted by the employer, could find no way around it either.

 

[Bob Morgan]

No, solutions have been found for those matters, during those discussions the individual stated that they did not think serving pork or alcohol would be an issue. Now, apparently, it is an issue. However in a small establishment, when the maximum number of front of house staff at any time is 2, and pulled pork ciabattas are the best seller, it is difficult to find an effective way around this. The imam, when consulted by the employer, could find no way around it either.

Thanks for that. I have designed quite a few Commercial and Retail Kitchens throughout the Middle East. Quite ironically, those rules were never really a problem. Although they varied from Country and Municipality, the intention was that 'The Business' should not be affected. Also keep in mind that we are dealing with a different set of Employment Rules throughout the GCC.

 

[simon field]

Don't mind people staying at home and taking drugs, as long as it's psilocybin or similar, not the brain rotting ones.

Some great work going on with our little fungal friends!

 

[Nico Albrecht]

have nothing to do with service of pork or alcohol

This actually proves the OP's point perfect. There is nothing in the Quran that says you cant handle pork and booze. ( interpretation of meaning maybe )

It is specific about consumption but the handling is open ended. So this new Islam dude is just cheery picking and his believes needs to be tolerated and accommodated without even being able top point at the evidence. All in that pork Islam thing is a 2000 year food law and wouldn't stand a chance today anymore.

I can't even believe employers have to even deal with this shit.

 

[Fagin2021]

Regulation and medical support has come about due to overwhelming public pressure, need to capture votes etc., now, today, yet still we have problems in all the areas I mentioned.

My point remains, that you can protest, tie yourself to a tree, march in numbers, deliver petitions, speak out on public and digital platforms for whatever cause you wish. You should not affect the daily lives and livelihoods of every citizen by disrupting the transport system.

Exactly

Handing out leaflets, going on marches, raising petitions etc, gets you nowhere.

Climbing gantries, gluing your hands to a road, chaining yourself to railings, simply irritates the public and is counter-productive.

True devotion to a cause demands sacrifice – whether it be hurling yourself in front of a horse, leaping from a tall building or self-immolation. Martyrdom gains public attention and respect.

Today’s protesters rely on plod or event organisers to keep them safe. So, don’t stop the boat race because there’s a protester in the water; don’t pause the National because there’s an activist on the course; don’t halt the traffic because there’s a demonstrator glued to the road; deny food, water, and toilet facilities to a campaigner chained to railings.

Guaranteed publicity.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

I don't know...

Did his activity result in an arrest?

...ironically he would be begging for some oil, when he's someone's special cell mate!

 

[Karimbo]

1) 'fellow employees are refusing to communicate with this individual.'
2) 'damaging to workforce moral'.

Snowflakes. If they're really this pissed with the manager for his out of work activities, they are snowflakes.

Sounds like senior manager just aren't happy and want this worker out. Just be honest - their activities dont align with our company's goals.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Snowflakes. If they're really this pissed with the manager for his out of work activities, they are snowflakes.

Sounds like senior manager just aren't happy and want this worker out. Just be honest - their activities dont align with our company's goals.

Is that a statement made with inside knowledge or just one to get your post count up?

 

[Deleted member 335660]

He is bringing the company into disrepute so sack him!

And how is he doing this, the problem is with staff, no mention of customers

 

[simon field]

And how is he doing this, the problem is with staff, no mention of customers

Does a company’s reputation only extend to its customers?

 

[japancool]

Does a company’s reputation only extend to its customers?

Judging by Twitter, no.

 

[Karimbo]

Is that a statement made with inside knowledge or just one to get your post count up?

Just common sense, you don't like their politics and want to get rid.

He took part in just stop oil on his day off (I assume its weekends when none of the coworkers were working based on the b2b sales nature of this trade)

I very much doubt its affecting morale the way you describe.

Morale is probably more likely due to economy, stagnant wages, 11% inflation.

Youre telling me this guys out of work actives hurting morale more than soaring inflation. Wage suppression and rising interest rates. Yeah that sounds legit

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Just common sense, you don't like their politics and want to get rid.

He took part in just stop oil on his day off (I assume its weekends when none of the coworkers were working based on the b2b sales nature of this trade)

I very much doubt its affecting morale the way you describe.

Morale is probably more likely due to economy, stagnant wages, 11% inflation.

Youre telling me this guys out of work actives hurting morale more than soaring inflation. Wage suppression and rising interest rates. Yeah that sounds legit

You haven't read the thread have you?

If you had you would know that I am not involved in this situation, it was a story related to me by a rep.

He took a day off mid week which is why his actions contributed to difficulties for his employer and staff.

Morale may not be the best term to use, but the staff he line managed were hacked off as he and not they was benefitting from the disruption.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Politics and Religion are NOT.taken to work!