Jacket potato shop use class A1 or A3?

[Patrick050289]

Hi, my name is Patrick.
im thinking of starting a buisness. I would like to open a jacket potato shop, mainly for eat in purpose. Would be selling Jacket potatoes with pre made fillings purchased from other supplier,soft drinks and possibly coffe with deserts.
There would be no cooking involved in the premises, apart from baking potatos.
Would it be possible to trade under A1 class property?

Thank You.

 

[arkybarky]

In a nutshell, yes, you should be ok with an A1 license...just double check with your local authority to be on the safe side.

 

[Patrick050289]

Thanks for yor help.
Anyone else got any suggestion how to go about it to be able trade under A1?

 

[Flying Hippy]

I would say it would be A3 as you are still cooking the jackets and not warming them up ! What you could do is use the shop as A1 and get part A3 just for the Jackets ass a restriction. So on your plans it will just be the oven area that you want classed as A3

Look up Starbucks Blackheath as they were refused A3 for Warming up panninis and I think are the only one in the country not allowed to sell hot food.

Depends on the council make sure you get written confirmation from them before hand

 

[Patrick050289]

Would council tell me if i would have the permission to bake potatoes under A1 class without actually having the property?
How difficult is it to get A1/A3 class?
Are there any policies clearly stating what will and what will not be granted?
I have had a good look at Staffordshire Moorlands council website ( can't post link, sorry ) but can not find anything related to my problem.

Thank you for help, Patrick.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

More to the point, why would you want to open a jacket potato business? Any time I find myself in a shopping centre foodcourt (which being the pig that I am is frequently) McDonalds has a queue, KFC has a queue, the little italian pizza place has a queue, the place selling roasts 7 days a week has a queue.....and the jacket potato place had two gormless looking members of staff propped up on their elbows waiting for the customer that never seems to come.

I'm guessing you have done some extensive research into the profitability of a jacket potato outlet? What was the result?

 

[Flying Hippy]

Best thing is to get written confirmation from the Council about their requirements. I do not know the area if it is a historic area for example you may have a bit of difficulty on the other hand if lots of shops are closed in the Area you may be onto a winner as the council will be more relaxed.

Try asking the council if they have any properties to let.

 

[Flying Hippy]

More to the point, why would you want to open a jacket potato business? Any time I find myself in a shopping centre foodcourt (which being the pig that I am is frequently) McDonalds has a queue, KFC has a queue, the little italian pizza place has a queue, the place selling roats 7 days a week has a queue.....and the jacket potato place had two gormless looking members of staff propped up on their elbows waiting for the customer that never seems to come.

If the jackets are cooked well with no hard lumps, quality potatoes and fillings ect will have lots of profit. Price has to be right. most shopping centers charge a lot which makes other brands appealing but sell under a tradition British theme onto a winner.

 

[Patrick050289]

To be honest with you LicensedToTrade, i have not done much research at all.
City i want to open shop in has around 20,000 population.
Location im thinking of for my business is right in the town center and there are shops such as New Look, Boots, Wilkinson etc. Which are producing good trafic on the street, there also is near by Council, College, and banks such as Halifax, HSBC, Barclays, NatWest and Lloyds.

As a competiton there is one jacket potato/sandwich shop which provides up to 3 diffrent fillings on potatoes ( don't sell garlic bread or drinks ) and no eat in facilities.
There is also another bakery seling sandwiches, sausage rolls, pies, cakes etc.

The main fear is Subway, its not direct competition as they don't sell jacket potatos but many customers will still choose them.

Pepole are turning into healthy eating and thats why i think it would work.

What do you think guys?
Thank You

 

[Patrick050289]

Good looking websites flying hippy

 

[bry123]

I would think it would definitely be an A3 use... If you write to the planning department, they should be able to clarify your questions for you, and no you don't need to own the property to do this.

Google "business usage classes" for a description of all classes.

 

[turner]

Please don't think i'm raining on your parade as i've never sold jackets only.

At my previous cafe we sold a mix, sarnies, toasties, scampi, lasagne, jackets etc, etc. We done on average 50 covers in the 12-2pm window and approx 6% of sales were jackets. Not a lot.

They are really cheap to buy so great profit but they will start sprouting if not used. We could use any excess for Sunday roast pots, or do a special with homemade chips etc but if thats all you are doing do take into account waste. Cheap to buy but waste is lost profit however cheap they are.

That said, as they say you'll never know if you don't try so very best of luck if you decide to go ahead.

 

[Patrick050289]

bry 123,
ive looked it up but like everone says it varies from council to council therefor i am sort of trying to estabilish the facts before really doing anything. Will write to planning department to find out. thanks for advice. And like i said i have never run any business before so im not as expierienced as you gus

Turner,
Did you hear about "spud u like"? they have got an outlet in one of the shopping centers and it always seems to be busy. They also got one in Liverpool airport, dont know hows that doing though.

Talk me out of it if you think that it is a bad idea... save me going into debt hehe

Thanks guys

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Spud u like are one of those that I was thinking of when I said that they were always the outlet without a queue of hungry customers.

It may well be just bad luck on my part that I always see them empty but do a little more digging and you will find out. Are they a franchise? If so give them a call and get a welcome pack sent to you, even if you plan on going independant.

 

[turner]

I have heard of spud u like but i have no idea of their profit/loss etc and that is a franchise which isn't something i have knowledge of therefore couldn't comment.

I wasn't saying it was a bad idea at all - on a previous post you said you hadn't done any research so thought a bit of input in that area may help you??

Would spud u like be any competition for you?

A lot people think serving food can't be that hard, believe me it is really hard work if you want to do right and be profitable.

Food for thought....!!

 

[MrsPWN]

Really important these days to have a great salad bar, not just lettuce, toms and coleslaw but really interesting stuff.

 

[Funny Business Cartoons]

Have you thought of a name for this outfit Patrick (OP)? Something like er....No Jacket Required for example. It's worth considering.

 

[Patrick050289]

No, i havent actually thoght of name
First i want to be sure that there is a chance of making something out of it, otherwise i might have a nice name and big debt.

Spud u like wouldn't be much comeptition to me as their nearest outlet is around 8 miles away.

Market research... what do i look for? competition? population? ( i don't know )
And how do we predict what our sales will be?

Sorry for stupid questions and thank you for your patience

 

[ethical PR]

Hi

In terms of research you want to look at

Competition - who else is operating in the area/what do they offer (eat in/takeaway) (walk the area/pick up price lists)
Costs - rent, rates, insurance,, set up costs, food, beverages, equipment, staffing, marketing, promotion etc (do you have enough to underwrite your business for six/twelve months until you can become profitable) - ask landlord/agent/council/insurance quotes, estimate staffing, identify marketing budget, get quotes for consumables and equipment
Footfall - what sort of footfall does the location you are looking at attract - ask town centre manager
Location - which is best area to attract high footfall from the sort of customer likely to buy from you - is it near a transport hub, college, shopping centre, leisure complex
Target audiences - what sort of people are likely to buy
Logistics - planning permission, training, sourcing products/equipment, rubbish collection, unloading etc
Market testing - fillings, price etc - go out with samples and test with your target audience

British Library has a great research centre for businesses
Business Link has business advisors (variable quality) to advise you on setting up a business and a website where you can download lots of resources
Also try your local council/chamber of commerce

 

[Patrick050289]

i know competition, i also know that they dont offer sit in service.
Footfal is high as it is main street in my town
Got an idea of costs so im ok there

The problem ive got is how do i target audience and how to estimate sales?

I know that running bussines involves alot of time, stress and knowledge but im keen to learn

Thank you very much ethical PR.

 

[ethical PR]

i know competition, i also know that they dont offer sit in service.

I'd be suprised if there were no other takeaways/cafe's/restaurants along a busy high street/town centre. Your competition is not just other jacket potato companies but anyone else offering fast food to take away/eat in

Got an idea of costs so im ok there

The problem ive got is how do i target audience and how to estimate sales?

1. Think about what sort of people are likely to buy fast food - students/office/retail workers/families etc depending on location

2. There are also lots of books available on setting up your own business (including specialist ones on setting up in retail/food). Go on Amazon (read reviews). There are also free/subsidised courses available through business link and local business organisations

3. Carry out research on the type of customers likely to buy your product and estimated sales. As I mentioned contact the British Library, talk to a Business Link advisor, your local chamber of commerce, town centre manager, local authority economic development team

 

[Patrick050289]

well, like i mentioned earlier the town i am thinking of has got 20.000 population ( small town ).

Yes, there is competition one jacket potato/sandwich shop which provides up to 3 diffrent fillings on potatoes ( don't sell garlic bread or drinks ) and no eat in facilities.
There is also another bakery seling sandwiches, sausage rolls, pies, cakes etc.

The main fear is Subway, but they are not direct competition, as they dont sell potatoes, although many people will choose them.

there are also 2 small cafes but very poorly maintained i always seems to be empty.

Will look into those books, anything you recomend?

Thank You.

 

[Patrick050289]

Welcome back

Ive done alot of reserch since last post and found that jacket potato shop probably is not the best idea. At the moment i am trying to head in diffrent direction... coffee there is no proper coffee shop, i asked people in area what they think about good coffee in modern shop, they all loved it so im pretty sure that this is what i will go for and currently im trying to work out how designeof a coffee shop counter would cost? ive found many websites offering the servis with really good designs but no prices.

maybe anyone could recommend me someone?
Thanks again

 

[Funny Business Cartoons]

Starbucks?:|

 

[Patrick050289]

Sorry but i dont get what you mean
Im not interesed in franchising, want to build it from scratch

 

[Funny Business Cartoons]

Well coffee is not that Original sorry.

 

[mackenziescafe]

Its the fillings that will sell your Jackets not the Potatoes. I have a sandwich bar/cafe and we have a Victorian Potato Oven. The sales of Jackets are so seasonal it is untrue and also people who have a Jacket invariable want a changethe next day.

We sell on average 3 to 5 Jackets a day in the summer (sometimes none) and maybe double that in the winter. Not as many as I expected when I bought the oven.

However Jackets are a good option/vehicle for selling other fillings and you can put Chilli, Curry Beans etc etc in them and charge a very good price. Of course this will mean you increasing the range of items that you are cooking.

 

[Richie N]

Having recently opened The Eatery, you do need A3 use for this.
Also, as mentioned by another poster, selling Jacket's on their own is a big risk.
Our main sellers are Sandwiches and Salads, Jacket's do sell but if we relied on just them our shop wouldn't survive.

 

[Rhodes100]

I am glad that you have carried out some market research before opening, there are so many who open a shop on a whim and loose a large amount of money no doubt. The shop closing down a short time afterwards.

The best indicator or whether something is going to be successful is to buy a shop rather than start one.

The location is proven, the menu is proven and the correct licenses have been obtained.

If you cant afford to buy a shop then you are highly unlikely to have the working capital to survive the first 2 years trading in a new business.

 

[arkybarky]

The best indicator or whether something is going to be successful is to buy a shop rather than start one.

The location is proven, the menu is proven and the correct licenses have been obtained.

Absolute nonsense! So you're saying that by taking over an existing business you have a better chance of succeeding? Just because its operating doesn't make the location or the menu "proven". If it were that great in the first place, chances are the owner wouldn't be selling.....

which leads me on to my next point....

If you cant afford to buy a shop then you are highly unlikely to have the working capital to survive the first 2 years trading in a new business.

If by chance you do come across a succefull & profitable business for sale the chances are the asking price would be too much for someone starting off...hence why a lot of people take out new leases.
I'm really struggling to understand your above statement... it would still cost a lot more to buy an existing business or shop than to take out a lease on one...you would still need working capital for the next year or so regardless?!?

Are you saying that if you can't afford to buy a shop then you shouldn't go into business?

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Starbucks?:|

The OP is discussing coffee.
Not the warm coffee flavoured bilge they slop up in that particular establishment.

 

[Rhodes100]

Absolutely arkybarky I am saying that by taking over an existing business you have a better chance of succeeding?

60% of startup businesses fail within 3 years

It takes two years on average for a startup to become profitable

You can usually buy a business with less than a 2 year payback period

People establising a business invariably underestimate their start up costs and underestimate how long it will take for a business to become profitable. So lets say start up costs of £20k, lack of profits for 2 years 50k, working capital needed to be successful £70k.

You can buy a good solid business in a proven location for £70k and earn from day one.

I suggest you carry out more research on businesses for sale you are overlooking some great businesses.

What I am saying is, if you do not have the money to see out a project then do not start it.

I am a business transfer agent I get a lot of business owners contact me to sell a business that they do not have the money to run and is not profitable. The businesses you talk about that are often overpriced are priced at that figure because the owner needs that money to bail them out of trouble.

My advice look at the risk free option before the risky option.

 

[arkybarky]

Absolutely arkybarky I am saying that by taking over an existing business you have a better chance of succeeding?

60% of startup businesses fail within 3 years

It takes two years on average for a startup to become profitable

You can usually buy a business with less than a 2 year payback period

People establising a business invariably underestimate their start up costs and underestimate how long it will take for a business to become profitable. So lets say start up costs of £20k, lack of profits for 2 years 50k, working capital needed to be successful £70k.

You can buy a good solid business in a proven location for £70k and earn from day one.

I beg to differ, you can start up a business for 20k-25k, run on a break even target (including salary and capital investment repayment) and start making profit within year 2 if attention is paid to things like location , staff training, good cutomer service, portion control etc...
This still seems the viable option for people that don't have a spare 70k to take over an existing business.
I have seen so many "established businesses" switching hands every second year because the new owner struggles to pay back the loan taken out to meet the ridiculous selling prices.

You can usually buy a business with less than a 2 year payback period

You can buy a good solid business in a proven location for £70k and earn from day one.

Again, i cant see how you can start earning from day one if you're to busy paying back the 70K investment.
I guess it comes down to the individual,belief in their product, long term goal and CAPITAL!
Where there's a will there's a way

 

[Rhodes100]

The problem is arkybarky is that people who establish a business do not have the same attention to detail that you might have.

You need to look at the reasons why someone wants out of their business, and look for positive reasons retirement for one, not reasons such as "if I dont sell I will have to go bust".

I am continually amazed that people will spend £50,000 on fitting an empty commerical property without carrying out any market research and expect to get their money back by selling their mistake to someone else. The ridiculous selling are due to this or a Dragons Den syndrome with owners who have over inflated opinions of their business.

I repeat if you dont have the money to see your business through dont start it or dont buy one.

 

[DAbusinessconsultant]

Just my opinions on this:

60% fail, who says, I've seen figures saying 1 in 3, 50% etc etc there doesn't seem to be an official statistic from what I have seen? I would be very interested in to what constitutes failure...are these people that have sold up? don't forget there has also just been a recession that has taken out businesses who have been around for decades, not just the new ones. With the right planning this figure will no doubt decrease considering there are businesses that start up blind.

In relation to your second point, it might apply to say restaurants that need stupidly expensive cookers etc but for essentially a shop with a big oven, and ancillary foods a fit out could probably be done for less that 20k easily, especially if you lease the equipment to test it for say a year and have a break clause on the premesis.

2 years for what? for who? businesses can start up with no capital, or with 500k capital. Doesn't mean it's going to take 2 years. Providing you do enough research, know your market, price accordingly businesses can break even in months, even less for service businesses like website design / graphic design etc. Again - there are so many variables that this needs to be taken on a business to business basis.

Again - what businesses? even if you buy at 70k, you'll still need to buy stocks, who's to say it will be habitable, not need a load of work that you would then be responsible for, if people are that worried about consents put in an offer with a deposit dependent on obtaining permissions. Hell plenty of businesses start up, operate for a while and put in for change of use when needed. Who says the location will want what the OP is offering? They might have had a cafe there before but unless research is done in the area it doesn't mean jackets would be successful. (of course there are businesses that can succeed regardless of location sometimes if the level of competition is low / non-existant)

To echo one of your points though to the OP - do more research

Absolutely arkybarky I am saying that by taking over an existing business you have a better chance of succeeding?

60% of startup businesses fail within 3 years

It takes two years on average for a startup to become profitable

You can usually buy a business with less than a 2 year payback period

People establising a business invariably underestimate their start up costs and underestimate how long it will take for a business to become profitable. So lets say start up costs of £20k, lack of profits for 2 years 50k, working capital needed to be successful £70k.

You can buy a good solid business in a proven location for £70k and earn from day one.

I suggest you carry out more research on businesses for sale you are overlooking some great businesses.

What I am saying is, if you do not have the money to see out a project then do not start it.

I am a business transfer agent I get a lot of business owners contact me to sell a business that they do not have the money to run and is not profitable. The businesses you talk about that are often overpriced are priced at that figure because the owner needs that money to bail them out of trouble.

My advice look at the risk free option before the risky option.

 

[dynamic08]

getting good quality potatoes is difficult! at certain times of the year you cant get good potatoes.

 

[14A]

Patrick,

I think its a hard business to start so I wouldnt just offer spuds, most people will think 'Its time to eat, what food can I buy' rather than 'Its time to eat a potato' - This puts you in competition with ALL food sellers, including the likes of Gregs and even Tesco with their fast 'Meal Deals'.

Dont put all your potatoes in one basket!

However, if you had a variety of potatoes to choose from, king eddies, rooster etc etc aswell as all the fillings, I personally would go there and buy one - Too many times have I bought a spud and its like a crinkled old boot and the skin is as tough as!

 

[mackenziescafe]

Dont be so quick to assume domestic catering equipment will suffice instead of more expensive commercial. I opened my cafe 2 years ago and the following are examples of the shortcomings of domestic equipment.

1. 2nd hand domestic chest freezer hinges broke due to being opened so many times a day
2. We went through a can opener every week and lots of frustration opening catering tins. After the first 6 weeks we realised that a commercial can opener was worth its weight in gold.
3. Although we inherited a used commercial oven, the previous owner must have replaced the element with a domestic one. After spending over £300 replacing the element 3 times in 12 months the engineer when pressed said "what do you expect from a domestic element? we just replaced like with like and domestic do not come with manufacturers guarantee"
4. Cheap knives get loose handles. They are being handled all day and are dropped frequently
5. 1 expensive pan is better than getting 3 cheap ones for the same money. Better Pots and pans clean easier and heat more evenly.
6. The cheap food processor I bought from Tesco is great if just using for grating cheese every other day as we now do. But dont expect to blend soups in it every day, the jug disintegrates within a few months.
7. We still go through an egg slice every other week. I havent found a solution to this. Perhaps someone out there knows of a good make?

I could go on and on with similar lessons learnt. If you are going into business then buy commercial.

One acceptable argument is to make do with second hand everything at the outset as you will not know which items will be the most useful until you are a good few months up and running. Spend your good money on replacements for these items. But that of course assumes you have a war chest which most people dont. So another good tip is budget for the long term not just start up.