ITV last night

[josor]

Anyone catch the program about the decline of the high street last night?

http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=277232

What's your thoughts?

 

[warnie]

just watching it now

The biggest problem for me personally when choosing where to shop is the parking. Why should I go to my local high street where I have to pay to park, when I can go to our westfield shopping centre, park for free and get everything under one roof?

We have 6 shops on our parade which is about 1/2 mile from the high street and has around 60 FREE car parking spaces, during the weekday's it's constantly about 80% full, when kids come out of school it's full, same for saturdays.

Now there's probabley around 8-10 times more shops on the high street, but I can guarantee our parade will be buisier, and the reason for that is mostly down to the parking. People can just roll up park right outside the front of the shops without any hassle at all.

You can't just 'pop' to the high street anymore and there for me is one of the biggest problems retailers face.

 

[Philip Hoyle]

Yep, far too many councils have alienated car drivers from their High Streets, not just with pedestrianisation and expensive car parks, but also the parking restrictions and one way systems etc.

Public transport, cycling and walking "may" be the future, but it's not here yet and in the meantime, the High Streets are dying.

Certainly around my way, the closure of shops on previously busy parades/streets always follows withdrawal of on street parking, either due to pedestrianisation or more recently cycle lanes, larger bus stops or pedestrian refuges.

My village is thankfully still vibrant due to free and easy on street parking and a couple of small car parks. All the business owners I talk to are fearful of the council coming along as they know how it will end.

We need a better balance between cars and other road users. After all, what's the point of cycle and bus lanes, and pedestrian refuges if no-one comes to that street anymore because the shops have closed.

 

[Dave Kinnel]

Fully agree, it's mostly down to the parking charges/restrictions. Trouble is that now business rates are payable on empty shops there is no financial incentive for councils to help the High Street. And on top of that the S106 money that comes with out of town developments usually ensures they are looked on favourably by the councils.

 

[hbcraen]

There are so many negatives about shopping, including parking, poor staff and lack of choice.

The internet allows easy access to products a nd delivery to your home. I recently wanted some clothes for a function. Selected a number of clothes that were delivered next day and those that I did not want were collected.

The High Street will have to change to reflect changing shopping habits and Councils will also have to change their negative attitiude to business as a whole.

I expect we will see more run down High Streets in the future

 

[josor]

There are so many negatives about shopping, including parking, poor staff and lack of choice.

The internet allows easy access to products a nd delivery to your home. I recently wanted some clothes for a function. Selected a number of clothes that were delivered next day and those that I did not want were collected.

The High Street will have to change to reflect changing shopping habits and Councils will also have to change their negative attitiude to business as a whole.

I expect we will see more run down High Streets in the future

You also get bad staff from the internet side as well, it's not just tied to the High Street

Car park pricing is an issue especially here in Lincoln, it's not just tied tot he council as we have a few NCP car parks in the city.

They just charge over the top parking, they should get 2 hours free parking . To encourage more to come into town

 

[papverpoppies]

There are so many negatives about shopping, including parking, poor staff and lack of choice.

The internet allows easy access to products a nd delivery to your home. I recently wanted some clothes for a function. Selected a number of clothes that were delivered next day and those that I did not want were collected.

The High Street will have to change to reflect changing shopping habits and Councils will also have to change their negative attitiude to business as a whole.

I expect we will see more run down High Streets in the future

Have to agree, it is not just lack of parking, but lack of choice - unless shops realise we have a far wider range from shopping on line, they are just going to go into further decline.

I was choosing some things online, (well known large company - but I wanted to look before making the final choice.
When I went into the shop, I was told - that model, make etc was only available online, and they DID NOT stock it..for heavens sake - I thought the whole idea of having a online outlet, was to compliment and work hand in hand with the store.:|

I find the highs street totally out of date with what a lot of people want.
A lot of it is rubbish, and as for all of these so called sales, where do they drag it in from?

The programme highlighted Skipton as bucking the trend...it is a lovely place to shop varied in what it offers, as is the older parts of York City Centre (they have the modern centres) but for people who want something different - they offer it.

If the Towns and Cities offer what shoppers want, people will come in, they will pay the parking and accept it. What they will not do, is pay to park when their is nothing worth buying.

Pops ~xx~

 

major problem is parking.

It should be free and available ,but it seems local councils are on the side of big business.

When was the last time you could not park in Tesco's?

Earl

 

[Dave Kinnel]

If the Towns and Cities offer what shoppers want, people will come in, they will pay the parking and accept it.

Pops ~xx~

And that could well be happening with the almost weekly demise of one chain or another.

Ps

Your sig', may I just add the whilst true, it was Fred that always led!

 

[papverpoppies]

And that could well be happening with the almost weekly demise of one chain or another.

Ps

Your sig', may I just add the whilst true, it was Fred that always led!

Councils are shooting themselves in the foot, because they must be losing revenue in some areas, when you look at the amount of shops boarded up.

The programme last night interviewed a market stall holder his rent is going to be going up 500% over the next 5 years, like he said, I simply will have to close shop and cease trading..
So what is better, to up the rent and force owners out, or work with the owners and reach satisfactory agreements all round - something has got to give!

Pops ~xx~

Agree Fred was good, but Ginger was the beauty - but together they were 'magic'!

 

[josor]

Councils are shooting themselves in the foot, because they must be losing revenue in some areas, when you look at the amount of shops boarded up.

The programme last night interviewed a market stall holder his rent is going to be going up 500% over the next 5 years, like he said, I simply will have to close shop and cease trading..
So what is better, to up the rent and force owners out, or work with the owners and reach satisfactory agreements all round - something has got to give!

Pops ~xx~

Agree Fred was good, but Ginger was the beauty - but together they were 'magic'!

On the other hand, they was offering incentives for retailers to fill empty shops

Edit: That was in Doncaster, about the market I think

 

[quikshop]

I found the comments of the Councillor so typical of a short sighted public sector worker following the usual straight narrow blinkered thinking.

He said rents had to go up because the Council had to make cut-backs and could no longer subsidise 'business'. Do these idiots not realise that a thriving town centre full of shops and shoppers increases revenue for the Council

Do Council workers responsible for town planning, generating revenue et al not meet up regularly to discuss such issues :|

Have they a single brain cell between them

 

[josor]

I found the comments of the Councillor so typical of a short sighted public sector worker following the usual straight narrow blinkered thinking.

He said rents had to go up because the Council had to make cut-backs and could no longer subsidise 'business'. Do these idiots not realise that a thriving town centre full of shops and shoppers increases revenue for the Council

Do Council workers responsible for town planning, generating revenue et al not meet up regularly to discuss such issues :|

Have they a single brain cell between them

We all know that council's have no common sense in whatever they do

 

[Philip Hoyle]

At the end of the day, however good the park & ride, public transport, cycle lanes, etc., people can't use those for major shopping trips. They're fine for "social shopping", i.e. a carrier bag for a couple of smallish items and a coffee & cake, but if you're buying anything heavy, or bulky, or buying several items, then you're not going to walk, cycle or suffer a bus journey. That's exactly the same with inconvenient parking - i.e. car parks at the wrong end of town, or multi-storeys with out of order lifts etc - it's not just cost of parking - the car parks are inconvenient.

Given that, who wouldn't drive to their local Tescos for their shopping, or the local retail park for clothing, bedding, pet supplies, new TV, etc, not to mention free parking right outside the shops usually on the same level.

The town/city planners have really lost the plot when designing their traffic flows, pedestrianisation, one way systems, cycle lanes, etc., as they've completely forgotten the vast majority of people who own cars, drive cars, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future because of convenience. Town and city centres seem to have become the preserve of students and OAPS - i.e. those who don't/can't drive - of course they should be catered for, but not at the expense of the car driving majority.

Perhaps in 20/30/40 years time, cars will be less popular and alternative transport will be used by the majority, but we have to deal with today, and if we're not careful, there won't be any town or city centres for the alternative transport utopia when it finally arrives. Let's look to the future, but let's not forget the here and now.

 

[Philip Hoyle]

Do Council workers responsible for town planning, generating revenue et al not meet up regularly to discuss such issues

No, I don't think any of the public bodies or departments within them bother to talk to each other at all. We desperately need "joined up thinking" right across local government and throughout the public sector.

On a small scale, there's a case where one town hall official is forcing a small business to provide disabled access (i.e. widening a door) yet another town hall official is refusing planning permission to do it - leaving the small business owner stuck between a rock and a hard place and despite numerous pleas, the two town hall workers refuse to talk to eachother or even attend a joint meeting to thrash it out.

On a bigger scale, we have a local social services department building a new building at huge cost for their offices at the same time the local council has a huge town hall virtually empty and desperate for a tenant to use it.

Then we have local colleges doing plumbing & building courses struggling to find "real life" jobs for work experience and having to constantly build walls and plumbing systems only to take them apart again, at the same time as local authorities can't afford "proper" tradesmen to maintain their public buildings!

The whole lack of communication, lack of joined up thinking, and lack of working together is crazy. There's no thinking outside the box - just the same old, same old...

 

[The Secret Campaigner]

I visit many retailers who all complain about the same issues with Town Centre shopping.

Number 1. Parking. Councils need to create a level playing field. Either charge for out of town parking at retail parks or make town centres free.

Number 2. The Internet. Most shops are affected by the internet. Some are fighting back by having their own on line presence. Refusing to repair or offer advice on products bought online. Offering what the internet cant offer, a pleasureable shopping environment with expert advice.

Number 3. The High Street Chains and Supermarkets. The biggest myth is these outlets are cheaper than the small independents - WRONG! In my experience the prices are equal if not better. You will also get better customer service.

Number 4. VAT The amount of retailers I visit who are turning away customers just to stay below the VAT threshold is astounding. Surely a fairer system would be to just charge VAT on the items above the threshold in the 1st 2 years would help businesses grow? 20% of £30,000 is better than 20% of £100,0000??

Number 5. Staff. The cost of employing staff, and the rights of the employee. Current legislation encourages staff to take their employees to a tribunal at the drop of a hat (especially if it lands on their foot and they are unable to work - poor things!!)

These are just a few issues I could go on.........

 

[hmmm]

if you let a dog have a whole chicken it will eat it and expect another whole chicken or two the next day and will bark all day till you give in..........

who is the dog and who is the owner?

 

[captaincloser]

if you let a dog have a whole chicken it will eat it and expect another whole chicken or two the next day and will bark all day till you give in..........

who is the dog and who is the owner?

'erm....and don't buy a dog and then bark yourself

 

[hmmm]

im to obedient

 

[Floyd Pink]

Convenience, the world wants convenience. I certainly do anyway.

I would rather drive an extra 20 miles to an area where parking is easy and it's "all under one roof" so to speak as opposed to driving 2 miles to suffer the hassle of my local town.

 

[emmylou74]

When I was looking around my town for shop premises I noticed one of the units at our retail park was available. Normally it would have been way out of my price bracket but they were planning on splitting the unit into 3 seperate shops - this made it affordable for me. And I was interested! But the owner of the retail unit wouldn't allow a small independant, only a multi national retailer was allowed to take them.

So whats in it at the moment? A charity shop until they can get 3 multi nationals to take it on - crazy!

 

[hmmm]

Convenience, the world wants convenience. I certainly do anyway.

I would rather drive an extra 20 miles to an area where parking is easy and it's "all under one roof" so to speak as opposed to driving 2 miles to suffer the hassle of my local town.

does it?
does the world want that?
how do you know?

 

[Floyd Pink]

does it?
does the world want that?
how do you know?

Well if somebody was offered a straight choice between convenience or inconvenience. I'd be amazed if they chose the latter.

 

[kelvin1950]

Well if somebody was offered a straight choice between convenience or inconvenience. I'd be amazed if they chose the latter.

But I may not think your idea of convenience is convenient to me.

 

[hmmm]

But I may not think your idea of convenience is convenient to me.

vundabar.........

 

[papverpoppies]

Well if somebody was offered a straight choice between convenience or inconvenience. I'd be amazed if they chose the latter.

As there is nothing worth to park and pay for, in the Towns and Cities, then yes, I can see why people use the 'free' out of Town facilities..

If people are thinking it is just the cost of parking that puts shoppers off, they are wrong - it is the 'same old, same old, stores/shops on every high street, shopping has become boring.......so why pay to park in these places.

Even if they made my local City a 'park free zone' there would still be nothing to tempt me in - and I suspect I am not alone on this!

Pops ~xx~

 

[papverpoppies]

But I may not think your idea of convenience is convenient to me.

Then you simply do not use it....

Pops ~xx~

 

[hmmm]

Then you simply do not use it....

Pops ~xx~

which one can only do with the convenience of choice

 

[Floyd Pink]

But I may not think your idea of convenience is convenient to me.

Of course, it's subjective.

 

[kelvin1950]

Of course, it's subjective.

So you may become amazed when they choose the wrong one?

 

[papverpoppies]

which one can only do with the convenience of choice

The convenience, of convenience.

Pops ~xx~

 

[Floyd Pink]

So you may become amazed when they choose the wrong one?

I wouldn't be amazed if they chose the opposite one to me, the one which you describe as "the wrong one". But I would be amazed if they chose the option which was inconvenient to them.

 

[papverpoppies]

I wouldn't be amazed if they chose the opposite one to me, the one which you describe as "the wrong one". But I would be amazed if they chose the option which was inconvenient to them.

How convenient........

Pops ~xx~

 

[kelvin1950]

I wouldn't be amazed if they chose the opposite one to me, the one which you describe as "the wrong one". But I would be amazed if they chose the option which was inconvenient to them.

But how would you know?

 

[silvermusic]

Even if they made my local City a 'park free zone' there would still be nothing to tempt me in - and I suspect I am not alone on this!

Pops ~xx~

You're not alone, my local town is a dump, I only go there if there's no other option for shopping or getting what I need. Full of cheap tat shops stuffed with plastic junk made in China, pound shops, mostly on very short terms while the landlord tries to fill space once occupied by big name retailers.

 

[Floyd Pink]

But how would you know?

Ah, now there's the tricky part. I guess if it wasn't convenient for me to find out if they were being inconvenienced, I wouldn't bother.

 

[Philip Hoyle]

If people are thinking it is just the cost of parking that puts shoppers off, they are wrong - it is the 'same old, same old, stores/shops on every high street, shopping has become boring.......so why pay to park in these places.

But it's happened. The naff shops are there now because the decent shops and car drivers have gone out of town. Now, there's no incentive to drive in so the damage has been done and it will take time to reverse. If the traffic hadn't been alienated in the first place, the decent shops would have stayed.

 

[papverpoppies]

But it's happened. The naff shops are there now because the decent shops and car drivers have gone out of town. Now, there's no incentive to drive in so the damage has been done and it will take time to reverse. If the traffic hadn't been alienated in the first place, the decent shops would have stayed.

I do not think they would, the high street was scuppered when it lost its individual identity.

In Carlisle we do not have the large out of town shopping centres, so shops like, next, boots, WHS, MS, BHS, are ALL in the centre, full of rack after rack of the same things.
You can park here for £1 for hour, and I think £2 for 3 hours...so it is not the cost of parking that is the problem.

Lots of smaller Cities operate the same way, with only the supermarkets being on the outskirts, with the odd Currys and PC World..

People can keep blaming the cost of parking all they like, but until the high streets re-brand big time, they are never going to attract back the family shoppers (IMHO) of course.

Pops ~xx~

 

[MH1]

People are fools if they think out of town shopping is different, it is the same major 8-10 national brands in whichever town or city you go too.

Expensive parking in town centres is a huge problem to the high streets and all other varities of roads etc, in my town they introduced expensive parking, over zealous traffic wardens which ruined the whole shopping experience.

Where people could take their time before now everything is rushed and hurried, the instigator t the council is not bothered, after all, he was the only person granted a free parking space under the scheme.

All animals are equal.......

 

[Esk247]

The out of towns hold the same nationals or multi nationals as a lot of the high streets, but, it's all under one roof.

This isn't just convenience with free parking it's also shoppers who are simply not prepared to walk around a town centre on a Saturday hunting down products or bargains. You can call it laziness but it's also the progression of out of towns and the impact they have on smaller individual shops.

The problem with individual shops is that they lack brand awareness, they lack product identity without physically going in and looking at what they sell.

Just look at the nationals, Halfords? I know pretty much what they sell just by saying the name. Tesco? Yep know what they sell too, don't even have to worry about it, i know i can get what i want in there. Big Bobs? nope, sorry bob, don't know what you sell, no website, no advertising, zero identity.

It isn't as black and white as the above of course, there are grey bits but even a unique and diverse high street struggles when people seek convenience and easy shopping.

I think York is one of the rare Cities that manages to mix out of town with a vibrant city centre shopping district. I'm not sure how the little businesses are doing at the moment but I haven't noticed as many shop closures as say Hartlepool.