ITV last night

[Dave Kinnel]

Where's the proof that retail parks are bucking the downturn in retail sales? I'd say they are suffering just as much if not more than the High Street. Didn't JJB (or was it JD?) sports go tits up and mainly occupy retails parks, Mothercare and Adams likewise? Let's not forget Focus and Borders as well. Just because the six or seven units on a retail park are all full so what, your average sized town will have two or three hundred shops.

Where's this fantastic choice on a retail park people keep harking on about, talk about the same rubbish, Tesco's, PC World/Currys, B&Q, Halfords, Next, Argos and McDonalds. Yes you can get everything but you can't get anything different.

I think you'll find the High Street is holding it's own very well all things considered. Just a shame the media seem intent on talking it down. And all those that have commented that they don't go to the High Street any more because it the same boring shops, can you not see your how stupid you sound saying that's why you go to the retail park? You wouldn't shop in any High Street anyway, and that's fair enough. But don't blame it on the lack of choice, you like bland and boring that's why you frequent retail parks.

 

[mhall]

you like bland and boring that's why you frequent retail parks.

Sadly, they like free parking and I think that's the b all and end all of it. Only when local councils understand that and stop penalising motorists will the rot begin to stop.

 

[mhall]

People can keep blaming the cost of parking all they like, but until the high streets re-brand big time, they are never going to attract back the family shoppers (IMHO) of course.

Pops ~xx~

But without the incentive of free parking, customers won't be coming so there is no incentive to rebrand. Someone has to break the circle and only the Councils can do this. Watch how many have free parking sessions on the run up to Christmas as a sop to get people in when they "switch on the lights" - you cannot tell me they don't know what the problem is-

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

If you gave free town centre parking without restriction the car parks would be full every day..........with shop staffs cars, commuters cars etc.,

My first job was in a town centre Sainsburys but the cost of parking all day was prohibitive so i'd park half a mile away and walk. Now with permit parking that would not be possible.

When I stand for parliament it will be on a 'ticket' to remove all parking restrictions, open up all rat runs, do away with unnecessary traffic lights and have a gallows for those who speed and park without consideration.

 

[Philip Hoyle]

If you gave free town centre parking without restriction the car parks would be full every day..........with shop staffs cars, commuters cars etc.,

But you wouldn't - you'd give say 1 or 2 hours free then full charges for anything more. You just re-set the ticket machines so that you can press for 2 hours without having to enter money, but if you want longer, then you have to pay.

It works remarkably well in our local Morrisons car park. It used to be free, but was used by non-shoppers because it was close to the town centre and promenade. Often, especially on Sundays if there was an event elsewhere, it was virtually impossible to park yet the store was quiet. Now there's a lot more movement as people aren't parking there for other things anymore and a lot easier to park again.

More and more car parks have free parking for a restricted time only, nowadays controlled often by entry/exit cameras. I can think of several local to me, Frankie & Bennys/Blockbuster Video, Pizza Hut/PCWorld, etc. It's clear that private firms have realised it's the way to attract shoppers without allowing a free-for-all.

Councils don't have the same intelligence - they only see short term in terms of how much cash the machines have brought in this week. If it starts to decline, their only answer is to increase charges - a bit of a vicious circle really!

 

[warnie]

So most of us are agreed that parking is the major issue then, but what do we know eh as owners of independant shops? The newsagent has just closed down in our high street, well kept business as well, but I for

Excellent point on the VAT threshold as well, how much is the goverment losing out on businesses that either refuse to grow any bigger or just cook the books? another example of the goverment restricting growth. What's the point in increasing your turnover by £10-20k only to have to pay most of it back in VAT and Tax and then have the hassel of dealing with the VAT man every quarter?

Also when the VAT went up, a lot of non-vat businesses were forced to swallow that 2.5% as they were unable to put prices up anymore.

While i'm at it, they need to look at employers NI for existing small businesses, again another tax that puts us off taking anyone on

 

[ETCSports]

just watching it now

The biggest problem for me personally when choosing where to shop is the parking. Why should I go to my local high street where I have to pay to park, when I can go to our westfield shopping centre, park for free and get everything under one roof?

We have 6 shops on our parade which is about 1/2 mile from the high street and has around 60 FREE car parking spaces, during the weekday's it's constantly about 80% full, when kids come out of school it's full, same for saturdays.

Now there's probabley around 8-10 times more shops on the high street, but I can guarantee our parade will be buisier, and the reason for that is mostly down to the parking. People can just roll up park right outside the front of the shops without any hassle at all.

You can't just 'pop' to the high street anymore and there for me is one of the biggest problems retailers face.

Totally agree with you there, parking is certainly a big issue.

 

[grazzenger]

i was heartened by the realisation in that program that a good mix of independents and chains was vital to a successful high street. a generic high street may as well be sited out of town or on the internet. it is the unique and the unusual that cannot be found in the soulless retail parks. also the pleasure for customers of talking to a retailer who cares, who listens and who'll take the time to understand and advise a customer. also the pleasure of getting to know shopkeepers and having a friendly chat, even if only briefly.

we receive compliments every day on how enjoyable it is to come into a friendly shop. i believe it's one of the key elements of how communities are built/ rebuilt. when people feel a connection with where they live, they care a little bit more. as an independent retailer, it's not only beneficial for us to foster this spirit, it is beneficial to the community we live in and i want to live in a town where people give a monkey's!

 

[feetfixer]

I believe the problem with town center shopping is that there are not many small independent shops able to compete with the chain stores. When I was looking for a property to house my foot clinic, the rates in town were untouchable, I am now only one mile out of town with rate relief. I know of other niche businesses who are put off by town center rates too. I prefer to drive to small towns on the outskirts of the city with free parking/cheap parking and small shops with owners that are glad of the custom. By the way, I think Mary queen of shops has a point with customer service issues in the UK. Rant over. This recession is terrible and will change the face of the world but only the businesses that adapt and meet the challenges head on will pull through it, I hope to God I am one of them.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

My recent experience with small shops has not been good.

Very helpful, too helpful if that's possible and dead keen to sell me something even if it's not quite what I needed.

The carwasher pump that just needed the moulded plug cut off and re-doing with spade clips to fit. The 9' fence post that could be cut down to the 8' I needed.

You could argue that they were just being helpful but the first was a 20 minute rigmarole when I could have walked into Halfords and picked it off the shelf.

 

[feetfixer]

I agree with where you are coming from, but surely it is better to have someone to serve you that tries to see a solution to your problem, rather than, ' If it's not on the shelf, we don't sell it!'. I find that the chain stores have a lot of stock but on haberdashery, cooking utensils, stationary and lots of other bits you don't always get the specialist knowledge that helps you to come to a decision. Each to their own of course, but if I want product choice then I go to the internet, for a world of choice, If I want advice, I go to smaller shops. In my opinion, free short term car parks and cheaper business rates would help these retailers to go back into towns and the High streets. Life would be breathed back into them and the council would benefit from increased visitors and tourists. As it stands the government would have to intervene as the council gets the same income from shops regardless of occupancy and all the car park revenue. People would stay longer and pay the extra if there were more shops to look in. As it is it is just a vicious circle that needs to be broken.

 

[warnie]

So most of us are agreed that parking is the major issue then, but what do we know eh as owners of independant shops? The newsagent has just closed down in our high street, well kept business as well, but I am not going to be forced to park 1/4 mile away and pay £1.80 just to get a newspaper and a sandwich, so the £3 goes to somewhere where I can park outside. Looks like many others thought that way too.

Excellent point on the VAT threshold as well, how much is the goverment losing out on businesses that either refuse to grow any bigger or just cook the books? another example of the goverment restricting growth. What's the point in increasing your turnover by £10-20k only to have to pay most of it back in VAT and Tax and then have the hassel of dealing with the VAT man every quarter?

Also when the VAT went up, a lot of non-vat businesses were forced to swallow that 2.5% as they were unable to put prices up anymore.

While i'm at it, they need to look at employers NI for existing small businesses, again another tax that puts us off taking anyone on

quoted as i missed off part of my post:redface:

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I agree with where you are coming from, but surely it is better to have someone to serve you that tries to see a solution to your problem, rather than, ' If it's not on the shelf, we don't sell it!'. I find that the chain stores have a lot of stock but on haberdashery, cooking utensils, stationary and lots of other bits you don't always get the specialist knowledge that helps you to come to a decision. Each to their own of course, but if I want product choice then I go to the internet, for a world of choice, If I want advice, I go to smaller shops. In my opinion, free short term car parks and cheaper business rates would help these retailers to go back into towns and the High streets. Life would be breathed back into them and the council would benefit from increased visitors and tourists. As it stands the government would have to intervene as the council gets the same income from shops regardless of occupancy and all the car park revenue. People would stay longer and pay the extra if there were more shops to look in. As it is it is just a vicious circle that needs to be broken.

I'm not convinced that the expert advice of old exists in smaller shops these days. When the iphone was first launched you'd find plenty of mobile dealers who could tell you why another phone was better. Nowt to do with them not being able to offer it.

A while back a local radio/electrical gadgets retailer tried to sell me the latest DAB radio as the best thing since sliced bread. It was made by Goodmans, Goldstar or some other well known lower end brand. When I asked what was so good about it he said the price, even though the same thing was available for £10 less at Argos.

 

[Philip Hoyle]

I'm not convinced that the expert advice of old exists in smaller shops these days.

Like anything else, it will depend on the person/staff who deals with you. Just because a shop is small doesn't mean it has experienced staff - still as likely to employ a spotty school leaver who hasn't a clue (or worse - the owner's son/daughter who's there under duress!). But, if you're lucky enough to get the proprietor or long term staff, especially someone who's been in the business for many years, then yes you may get far superior service and advice. I suppose you've more chance of better customer service in a small shop, but there's no guarantee and you could get brilliant service from a mega chain store if you get "the right" employee who knows their stuff.
Some small shops will be excellent, others will be dire.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Like anything else, it will depend on the person/staff who deals with you. Just because a shop is small doesn't mean it has experienced staff - still as likely to employ a spotty school leaver who hasn't a clue (or worse - the owner's son/daughter who's there under duress!). But, if you're lucky enough to get the proprietor or long term staff, especially someone who's been in the business for many years, then yes you may get far superior service and advice. I suppose you've more chance of better customer service in a small shop, but there's no guarantee and you could get brilliant service from a mega chain store if you get "the right" employee who knows their stuff.
Some small shops will be excellent, others will be dire.

Agreed, but my point is it's not a given that re-vitalising the high street will change.

I used to sell advertising for the local rag and the family business retailer takes many forms, psychotic being one, overbearing another and of course decent hardworking fair, knowledgeable folk.

 

[Testimony]

Parking is an emotive issue, where the non town centre places have the advantage. In a town centre, it is not merely the retail staff who would historically use the free car parks, but the service industry staff,such as bank staff, accountancy office staff, solicitor office staff, voluntary sector staff etc.

The out of town parks don't have that problem, but where I have an issue with parking is purchasing goods in a high street store and either having to lug the goods a sizeable distance, or else risk the wrath of the over zealous wardens.

e.g. About a year ago, I purchased an oven from a small sized electrical store owned by a local businessman. I parked outside his shop, went in to browse for an oven, knowing full well that I was wanting/needing an oven, and wanted to give him the business in preference to the currys style business model.

The salesman showed me three models that he considered suitable, once he ascertained my needs and usage levels, and I parted with my hard earned cash. The salesman went to the back room store and lifted a boxed version of the demo model, but when we walked outside to put the oven in my boot, there was a jobs worth traffic warden who was photgraphing my car for outstaying the 30 min allowed time.

I am not a violent person, but had a vision of the wardens head breaking through the fronted glass of the oven as I man handled him and removed his genitalia with a plank of wood.

When I walked out of the shop, after the salesman giving me 100% customer service and satisfaction, some uneducated culdesac ruined my shopping experience by penalising me for being a customer.

Next tme, it will be the "currys" out of town experience, as even though they sell tat, the £80 fine saved will act as a bulwark for the lifespan of the tat.

In this case, the small local businessman is paying higher rents for the high street, higher rates for the high street, and also paying with loss of customers for the high street parking mentality. Paying £1 or £2 for an hours shopping is not the problem. Its paying £80 extra for convenience that was my problem.

 

[WebTrust]

Theres nothing worse, than walking into a quiet small store.

When your the only one in there and the person trying to sell to you.

I prefer chains based on that.