Is there such a thing as a "dead end" job?

[Ashley_Price]

What do you think?

I've never believed this - I believe it is the employee's attitude that decides whether it's a dead end job.

Last week, I heard the perfect example of this from a Rotarian who, until he retired, was the Chief Executive of the District Council.

What job did he do when he first left school? He was a toilet attendant for one of the council's public toilets in the town!

I also have a niece that actually enjoys working in McDonalds. She has risen from being a burger server to being Shift Manager, and she looks like she could be getting promoted again soon.

So, two jobs that the majority of people think are dead end jobs, yet the people doing those jobs saw them as a foot on the ladder to better jobs.

So there is no such thing as a dead end job - it is the employee's attitude!

 

[directmarketingadvice]

No, there are dead-end jobs. I had one for a few years.

Steve

 

[Ashley_Price]

What was it?

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

I used to work for a large company that made IV bags, and the production line was one of the most tedious jobs that i've ever seen. The workers simply checked the IV bags for damage, they weren't able to talk because of the noise, it was tepidly warm, and everyone sat on their spot in isolation performing the same job every 3 seconds.

But it's a job where you just do your job, and finish and go home. No worries, no stress, no complications or complexities. Turn up, do your job, get paid, go home.

NB the factory had a low turnover of staff, because although the job was boring, it treated them well, paid them well, good benefits & holidays, and was infact a very nice company to work for.

 

[Ashley_Price]

But was there no chance of advancement? Did anyone ask about this?

I worked for a nappy factory back in the early nineties and it was while I was there that the then Quality Control supervisor planted this idea in my head about no dead end jobs.

He had applied to work "on the line" and did so for a couple of months, but he wanted better and the QC Supervisor role became vacant. He had kept records of how he had saved the firm money because while "on the line" he had spotted several problems that no one else had picked up on. They promoted him on the spot.

Now, you'd see nearly all others with the "well, it's only a job. Just turn up, do my 8 hours (with half-hour for lunch), go home and get paid once a week" attitude. It's no wonder some of them had worked there for 10 years or more and not advanced.

This chap had done a little extra (keeping notes of when he had spotted quality problems - and even bothering to check for quality problems) and he got promoted when a position became free.

 

[SFD]

I think dead-end is viewed quite often as whether a person wishes to advance into the further roles available.

The last company I worked for constantly promoted the idea of being a manager & if you work hard enough you can get there.

I couldn't think of a worse fate than working for that company as a manager so to me it was dead end.

 

[Ashley_Price]

I think dead-end is viewed quite often as whether a person wishes to advance into the further roles available.

That's exactly my point, it's the person's attitude.

 

[Hogrill]

Any job can be termed dead end if it doesnt offer the opportunity to get you where you want to be or provide the income to support your required lifestyle.

I would never claim some one is working in a dead end job just because it doesnt suit me. If they are happy to work it then you could argue they are better off than a high flyer who longs to be elsewhere.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

What was it?

It was a white collar job in a department that, quite frankly, shouldn't even have existed.

The reason it existed was that it was a learning ground for a particular group of graduates. And, it wasn't possible to get into that group. (unless you went off and did a degree)

I was there for approx 5 years and never got a sniff of a promotion. I left to join a different part of the company and went up 3.5 grades in 3 years.

Steve

 

[SFD]

That's exactly my point, it's the person's attitude.

Yes but your point was they could see there was room for improvement to a job they wanted to do.

My point was if you don't see roles which you want to do then it is dead-end.

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

My point was if you don't see roles which you want to do then it is dead-end.

Also, the thread makes the assumption that advancement is wanted. Sometimes it isn't. Not everyone has their career/job etc as a high priority some see it purely and utterly as a case of bringing home enough money, and doing the same no-brainer job for 10 years is just fine.

First time I saw this was when I was 13 years old and doing school work experience in a bank. It's not a strategy for me. But it suits a lot of people just fine.

 

[Ashley_Price]

But someone who is actually happy where they are is still the attitude of that person - it doesn't make the job a dead-end job. In fact, their friends would probably be saying to them "Why are you still doing that? Why haven't you got promoted?"

I think sometimes people are happy where they are but they don't want to admit to that, so they say "It's a dead end job". They might like the type of job where you have no really concerns, problems and don't have to think.

When my father was ill (early nineties) I was in several factory jobs and some paid very nicely, thank you - you got plenty of holidays, they paid you if you were off sick, etc. Yet, I was brain-dead and just couldn't have stuck it out for long.

 

[Suzina]

I've done a few dead end jobs, but only stayed until I could get to another employer and go up the grades. Constant promotion does bring addtional stress but I think it's worth it. And then when you own the company you never get time off (that may be because I'm a control freak though!)
The dead stuff was boring, but it paid the rent and was honest and we all start somewhere. Also starting at the bottom, and in some cases staying there until you move companies, means you learn how you would like to be treated by managers and hopefully improves the way you look after your staff when you have some. I definately learned how not to treat folks in some of the menial roles I had...
We're only a tiny company (2 owners & 2 employees) but no-ones ever left; DM has been with us 8 years & DH 7 years so I think the learning curves of old were very useful guides for staff retention.

 

[Ashley_Price]

The reason it existed was that it was a learning ground for a particular group of graduates. And, it wasn't possible to get into that group. (unless you went off and did a degree)

I was there for approx 5 years and never got a sniff of a promotion. I left to join a different part of the company and went up 3.5 grades in 3 years.

Steve

You obviously didn't want the promotion badly enough though, because if you did want to make working for that company your career, why not get the Degree?

You see, there was a path to promotion and it was only your decision not to go for the Degree that stopped you from doing it.

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

When my father was ill (early nineties) I was in several factory jobs and some paid very nicely, thank you - you got plenty of holidays, they paid you if you were off sick, etc. Yet, I was brain-dead and just couldn't have stuck it out for long.

So, yes there are dead end jobs. Where the job position itself has opportunity for change, the job position itself will never grow to include more options/variety or responsibility. If the employee wants that, and they need to change job positions, either in or out of the same company, the the job itself can only be defined as dead end.

(The employee and their attitude is a totally different matter).

 

[Ashley_Price]

No, not at all.

"Dead end" means no opportunity for advancement - I am sure there were opportunities for this in the jobs I was doing. However, I had no wish to stay in them long term, I was only getting money to help support my parents when my dad was seriously ill (he died early '94 at 57).

If I had have wanted to make my career in one of those firms I could have advanced.

 

[Wendy.Rule]

I also have a niece that actually enjoys working in McDonalds. She has risen from being a burger server to being Shift Manager, and she looks like she could be getting promoted again soon.

Its all relative I guess. I have a friend that 'forced' her two sons to work in McDonalds as she wanted them to learn the discipline that McDonalds offers. Guess they were not ever staying but the training was good for their future employers. I think that your niece is right and she could well end up having a great CV for future employers to look at - good on her.

As a student I worked in a rubber factory cutting ends off product - painful on the hands and chance of advancement for permanent workers seemed slight. Smelt as well

Wendy

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

If I had have wanted to make my career in one of those firms I could have advanced.

But the position that you'd have to leave to advance would still remain in the firm, it just would have been filled by someone else who would have continued to do exactly what you had been doing.

Could you have advanced within the firm by Staying in the same job position?

 

[Ashley_Price]

No, you can't advance (as I see the word advance) by stating in the same job position. You get promoted up the ladder.

By dead end job I have meant that there there is no opportunity for promotion to the higher echelons of the company - so literally going from toilet attendant to Chief Exec.

 

[Wendy.Rule]

No, you can't advance (as I see the word advance) by stating in the same job position. You get promoted up the ladder.

By dead end job I have meant that there there is no opportunity for promotion to the higher echelons of the company - so literally going from toilet attendant to Chief Exec.

But surely if you pay the person in the same job twice as much over time, they have still advanced? We employ developers on the basis of value (and they have no desire to be nor would they make good managers) but are increasingly valuable as they build their knowledge and skills. Some are paid handsomely and in some circumstances more than the person they are reporting to.

Wendy

 

[Ashley_Price]

I hadn't thought of it that way, Wendy.

It's a difficult one, because to me if I was being paid more for the same job I wouldn't consider that I've advanced and it would come down to whether I liked the job I was doing or not.

If I was being paid more for a job I enjoyed doing then fine, keep the pay raises coming! If it was a job I hated, however, then no amount of money would satisfy me.

 

[Joanne_UK]

I think there are dead end jobs when working for a very small business.
For example, a few years ago my husband was working for two brothers (as a sale assistant) , the only job available was that , no chance of promotion as the brothers were doing everything themselves (managing, administration, etc..) and would never delegate anything.

 

[Ashley_Price]

One can only assume that the company was not looking to expand - otherwise the brothers would have found that all the roles they were doing would have become too much for them, so eventually a position would have become available.

 

[Joanne_UK]

no they did not want to expand , even if they did they still would not have any promotion available to the staff because in the past, they used to have quite a few shops, but again they were doing everything themselves and only ever had sales assistants.

 

[deniser]

There are lots of dead end jobs and not only the lower paid unskilled type.

Any kind of job is "dead end" if there are no opportunities for promotion within the same workplace. Examples are teacher in a school where the vacancies for vice head and headmaster are already filled or solicitor where you are not going to be offered partnership.

If you are in one of these dead end jobs all you can do to advance yourself (if you want to) is to move on to a higher position with a different employer.

 

[Ashley_Price]

Examples are teacher in a school where the vacancies for vice head and headmaster are already filled...

But if the vacancies aren't there then that isn't down to the job you're doing.

A dead end job is where, even if there are vacancies open at the next level up from the employee, there is no way the firm would promote that person, they'd get someone in from outside (or from somewhere else in the firm).

 

[deniser]

The example you gave at the outset of someone working at MacDonalds isn't of a dead end job. You can start by frying burgers and end up on the board of directors. I have seen someone do this at Pizza Hut (making pizzas obviously).

A dead end job is one in which there are no opportunities for advancement, promotion or an increase in pay. They exist mainly because there are no senior positions to go to usually because they are blocked by other people in them.

If your question is asking whether any job, however menial and unskilled, has prospects, then I agree with you absolutely.

 

[Ashley_Price]

If your question is asking whether any job, however menial and unskilled, has prospects, then I agree with you absolutely.

We're in complete agreement, deniser.

My point was trying to get people to alter their view of exactly these sorts of jobs as being a dead end job.

I think this is why - despite the "recession" - there are still so many jobs available, because those that are unemployed see them as "dead end" jobs, with no prospects of advancement etc.

This is why so many of our hotels, hospitals, farms, etc., etc., are full of workers from other countries - they are not "stealing our jobs". If the people living in this country did those jobs, they simply wouldn't be there for foreign workers.

 

[Wendy.Rule]

We're in complete agreement, deniser.

I think this is why - despite the "recession" - there are still so many jobs available, because those that are unemployed see them as "dead end" jobs, with no prospects of advancement etc.

This is why so many of our hotels, hospitals, farms, etc., etc., are full of workers from other countries - they are not "stealing our jobs". If the people living in this country did those jobs, they simply wouldn't be there for foreign workers.

I figure this raises a whole new topic in terms of how people perceive jobs and how they will be perceived because they have taken a 'dead end' job.

The recession is affecting people and as you say perhaps locals should be accepting that they can get an alternative employment until the market starts recovering. But if I was doing a skilled job, get made redundant and then I have to get a job that is not going to challenge me - this could be a difficult switch. Also when the market recovers will I have an appropriate CV or will this break in career affect my value in the market?

I wonder which is worse, unemployed for a long period or employed in a 'dead end' job (still accepting that dead end is not terminology I subscribe to)?

Hopefully we will not have to find out.

Wendy

 

[Ashley_Price]

Wendy, it is well known that having a job makes it easier to get another job. I don't think that it would reflect badly on an applicant if their CV showed they had a period of unskilled employment - if they can explain why.

 

[Wendy.Rule]

Yes I agree but the first step is getting the interview to explain and my experience in the UK is that there are a ton of applicants to one job. We are in a market that may well be in a glut of resource but still I wonder how supportive I would be if someone's most recent employment was not in the IT field?

I do not recall reviewing a CV that looked like this. Mostly I think I would have to know the person or someone who put them forward (that I trusted) so I was not stopping someone getting an interview that seemed more immediately appropriate.

I do look for attitude through a letter and CV so perhaps they would make it should they word their letter very carefully. From a personal perpective I would applaud their attitude so I guess if the letter looked right they may get the nod for an interview. Actually the best person I think I ever employed was someone who had been unemployed for a long time and she sought an interview to discuss. After getting the job there was nothing that would make her lose it! She was an ace...

Certainly they stand a chance now that we have had this discussion....
Rambling over.
Wendy

 

If you don't like your job then its a dead end job,whatever your doing.

Earl

 

[mrRed]

I worked as a grave-digger when I was younger, that was pretty dead end, (excuse the pun! ), but it's true.

I also worked in a plastics factory for a year and a half when I was younger, the shift manager never even bothered to learn my name, never-mind recognise the fact that I would work 3 hours overtime each evening, cover when others were ill etc...they had a massive turnover of staff and the only reason I stayed for so long is because I needed the dosh.
I saw no chance of promotion so left and found another job. Does that count as dead end?