Is SEO worth it?

[abpublish]

I am just starting to wonder if SEO is diverting us from worthwhile activities that promote our business.

For instance, some of the SEO techniques are simple common sense in trying to create a website that is suitable for your users. That is:

• Lots of relevant text content
• Good internal linking structure with explanatory link words
• Minimise code for fast loading pages
• GZ compression of pages for fast loading
• Content that's so good and so relevant that it will attract inbound links naturally

That's not an exhaustive list. My main point is that all your effort should go into making the site relevant and easy-to-use for the surfer. The SEO effects are just a welcome by-product.

But that's it. Why spend so much time, effort and money on SEO which can never be guaranteed no matter what they say? Surely it is more efficient to market your business with methods upon which you can rely such as:

• Real marketing
• Real advertising
• Pay-per-click campaigns
• Providing such an excellent service that you get recommendations.

I'm not sure that I am right. It's just a doubt I have and would be very interested to hear other's opinions on the question.

 

That's not an exhaustive list. My main point is that all your effort should go into making the site relevant and easy-to-use for the surfer. The SEO effects are just a welcome by-product.

quite except that your relevant easy to use site may not have anyone visit to appreciate its wonders without the aid of a bit of SEO.

Earl

 

[IPC_Design_Ltd]

quite except that your relevant easy to use site may not have anyone visit to appreciate its wonders without the aid of a bit of SEO.

Earl

Very true.. a pretty website that no-one can find, is pretty useless!!

(well implemented) SEO can drive valuable traffic to your site.. where you can then convert it to sales with your "easy to use" website

Chrissy

 

[adventurelife]

If you have a product or service the market wants I have found nothing so far in marketing that gives me the ROI of having websites on page 1 of google.

I am not an SEO so this is my view based on business returns.

 

[abpublish]

Very true.. a pretty website that no-one can find, is pretty useless!!

I agree. But there are many ways of promoting your site other than SEO. My main point being, that SEO is not 100% reliable. It is also a minefield. You either have to put in the time and effort yourself or you have to find a good SEO company and there are many many charlatans out there!

 

[harryboon]

quite except that your relevant easy to use site may not have anyone visit to appreciate its wonders without the aid of a bit of SEO.

Earl

Earl one of the best quotes I have seen, thank you.

 

[abpublish]

quite except that your relevant easy to use site may not have anyone visit to appreciate its wonders without the aid of a bit of SEO.l

Agreed. That's why I am sying that basic SEO is common sense. it's good for your visitors and good for your listings on Google.

My problem is the lengths some people go to to be on page 1. Some people spend fortunes on SEO or devote hours of their time each week to it. I just wonder whether the same amount of time, effort and money spent on other forms pf promotion would be more efficient.

Advertising and marketing drive traffic to your site in the same way as SEO does.

 

[IPC_Design_Ltd]

I agree. But there are many ways of promoting your site other than SEO. My main point being, that SEO is not 100% reliable. It is also a minefield. You either have to put in the time and effort yourself or you have to find a good SEO company and there are many many charlatans out there!

Theres no form of marketing that is 100% reliable, its one of its many perks! Flyers can be discarded, business cards thrown away, banners ignored and PPC ... well.. you get my drift!

Business online is a minefield in itself, its how you navigate this minefield that can make all the difference. SEO is indeed something you need to put time and effort into, but the same can be said for all forms of marketing, if you are not willing to put in the effort, you will not get the desired result.

There are a lot of good companies out there, and any company who is worth their salt will tell you and show you what and where and when the SEO is being implemented and show the the results of it...

Its a lot of work, but it can be worth it when you see your ROI improve.

 

[adventurelife]

Agreed. That's why I am sying that basic SEO is common sense. it's good for your visitors and good for your listings on Google.

My problem is the lengths some people go to to be on page 1. Some people spend fortunes on SEO or devote hours of their time each week to it. I just wonder whether the same amount of time, effort and money spent on other forms pf promotion would be more efficient.

Advertising and marketing drive traffic to your site in the same way as SEO does.

Example

New site only 14 months old. Spend so far around £1k, time spent on it minimal, revenue return 6 figures and growing. I cannot figure out anything else that does that otherwise I would be doing it.

Obviously is depends on your service/product and competition. I have marketed using most methods over the years and cannot find anything that gets close.

 

[abpublish]

Spend so far around £1k, time spent on it minimal, revenue return 6 figures and growing.

Wow! That is good indeed. I think it is rare to have such a return on such a low investment.

Well done. Long may it continue!

I would say that a spend of £1,000 with minimal effort is more than worth it. Don't forget, I am not advocating no SEO at all. I am just advocating limiting the time and money spent on it.

For instance, what if you ran a well managed PPC campaign alongside your SEO? How can you be sure that that wouldn't turn the 6 figures into 7 or even more?

 

[adventurelife]

Wow! That is good indeed. I think it is rare to have such a return on such a low investment.

Well done. Long may it continue!

I would say that a spend of £1,000 with minimal effort is more than worth it. Don't forget, I am not advocating no SEO at all. I am just advocating limiting the time and money spent on it.

For instance, what if you ran a well managed PPC campaign alongside your SEO? How can you be sure that that wouldn't turn the 6 figures into 7 or even more?

Not rare at all in my experience we have sites that return much more ROI

We have used extensive PPC in the past, I still use occassionally to test markets. Stopped using it as it got to difficult to handle in house and so you just burn money and have not found anyone that can deliver via outsource.

I have gone down a slightly different route with multiple sites so we often dominate long tail search in our sector by taking between 5 and 10 of the organic slots on page one. Again not much effort or cost required for great ROI.

However, I am not saying the above can be done in all sectors. I play in niche fields. You need serious investment if you are in competitive sectors.

Most of the time and money should be spent in the research phase ensuring your are picking the right fight

 

[muyilleum]

From my experience, SEO is well worth it. The problem is that a lot of us are not patient enough to see it work.

 

[IPC_Design_Ltd]

From my experience, SEO is well worth it. The problem is that a lot of us are not patient enough to see it work.

Thats certainly true of some of my past clients, they expect an 'instant' increase... SEO is like gardening (or at least how I explain it) you plant the seed, tend to it, and it grows over time into something you can visibly see, but it takes time and effort.

Any SEO company/expert who promises overnight results is either an idiot.. or they will get you to the top very quickly, and get you banned just as quick.

 

[harryboon]

Thats certainly true of some of my past clients, they expect an 'instant' increase... SEO is like gardening (or at least how I explain it) you plant the seed, tend to it, and it grows over time into something you can visibly see, but it takes time and effort.

Any SEO company/expert who promises overnight results is either an idiot.. or they will get you to the top very quickly, and get you banned just as quick.

That's a lovely way to explain SEO - and very true

 

[helmuc]

ok... let us be real - people who take #1 spots mostly gray-hat or black-hat methods. And If they are used with brain - no penalty will come

still I consider myself - a gardener (as mentioned), but some friends of mine are really cosy beeing #1 by using "other" methods.. and they are even still enjoying $ from G ads

 

[IPC_Design_Ltd]

ok... let us be real - people who take #1 spots mostly gray-hat or black-hat methods. And If they are used with brain - no penalty will come

Sooner or later, everything will catch up... and when it does.. well...

Why not use white-hat methods, and know that you are doing things properly?

 

[directmarketingadvice]

quite except that your relevant easy to use site may not have anyone visit to appreciate its wonders without the aid of a bit of SEO.

Or it might have lots of people. SEO is just one way to get people to a website.

Any SEO company/expert who promises overnight results is either an idiot.. or they will get you to the top very quickly, and get you banned just as quick.

I disagree. Sometimes the difference between a site being on page 4 and that site being on page 1 is just a few simple changes.

If someone knows how to make those changes, they're not an "idiot", they're an "expert".

Steve

 

[helmuc]

Sometimes the difference between a site being on page 4 and that site being on page 1 is just a few simple changes.
If someone knows how to make those changes, they're not an "idiot", they're an "expert".

+1 for that

there are some really simple things that 95% don't know ... one of them concerns allinanchor ... but find it yourself

good luck

p.s. and about the time that makes everything equal... not true, that is the same to compare who will be faster a race-car or bicycle. You see - those guys already harvest visitors while other (including me) keep dreaming...

 

Or it might have lots of people. SEO is just one way to get people to a website.



I disagree. Sometimes the difference between a site being on page 4 and that site being on page 1 is just a few simple changes.

If someone knows how to make those changes, they're not an "idiot", they're an "expert".

Steve

Your first comment is what one might expect from an acknowleged PPC expert. And I agree with it.

Your second comment is also correct dependant on the state of the site and the competition its quite possible to have a site ranking well next day.

As for the comment by Helmuc most top ranking sites do not use black hat as the risk to a valuable site is far to great as Gocompare and BMW found out.

Earl

 

[helmuc]

As for the comment by Helmuc most top ranking sites do not use black hat as the risk to a valuable site is far to great as Gocompare and BMW found out.

most top ranking sites? how many bmw manufacturers are there in the world?

I suppose people over here represent mostly small and some medium businesses?

there are 1000's of competative niches and people fight for them.

let us talk about the risk...

in average #1 spot in medium niche will atract aprox 50k unique visitors a month while beeing somewhere #24 will give you max 3 a day (and that would be really good)

Are you ready to wait 6-9 months while the blach-hat site will be off the #1 spot? ... others are coming as well

as it is to me - this is a war, and if other side use rockets you can not fight with a sword

 

Are you ready to wait 6-9 months while the blach-hat site will be off the #1 spot? ... others are coming as well

can you name some of these No1 black hat sites.?

Earl

 

[harryboon]

I'm interested to see a list too......

 

[helmuc]

can you name some of these No1 black hat sites.?

Earl

I will be carefull with giving out the sites of my friends...

let us make it opposite - give me three #1 rank sites - and probably I will be able to say which non white-hat system has been used ...

it can be interesting

p.s. just let us keep away bmw or dell

 

[harryboon]

www.carehome.co.uk

www.cotswolds.info

www.londonjobs.co.uk

All a bit random but there you go.

 

[helmuc]

for what keywords they come first (this question doesn't apply to londonjobs)?

others are welcome to join the forces and help us bring the sins into light

 

[helmuc]

"jobs in london" - #1 is gumtree

 

[harryboon]

care homes, cotswolds pubs - why what wrong with LJ?

http://www.britishmedicaljobs.com doctors jobs

I'm interested lol

 

[IPC_Design_Ltd]

I disagree. Sometimes the difference between a site being on page 4 and that site being on page 1 is just a few simple changes.

If someone knows how to make those changes, they're not an "idiot", they're an "expert".

Steve

Granted, but the keyword there was SOMETIMES.... majority of sites that promise overnight results.. simply can't.... it can take MONTHS at worst for search engines to index any changes, making overnight results either:

a) an impossibility
or
b) very good timing.

And definition of an expert - an ex is someone you'd rather not be around, and a spurt (xpert) is a big drip.... lol

 

[helmuc]

both keywords (and they are the most important ones) cotswolds and cotswold don't make cotswolds.info #1

 

[harryboon]

And definition of an expert - an ex is someone you'd rather not be around, and a spurt (xpert) is a big drip.... lol

Very good I am going to use that in one of my talks lol

 

[harryboon]

both keywords (and they are the most important ones) cotswolds and cotswold don't make cotswolds.info #1

OK what about medical jobs?

 

[helmuc]

cotswolds.info should be a good sample ...

anybody wants to join?

this info shows that there is definately a direction to dig http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/uk/siteexplorer/search?p=http%3A%2F%2Fcotswolds.info&bwm=i&bwmf=s&bwmo=&fr=yfp-t-702&fr2=seo-rd-se

 

[harryboon]

I thinks it just you are me lol

 

[FinchSells]

It's very hard to tell whether a site is ranking due to black hat influence without looking deeper and analyzing the chain of links in it's profile. But you'd be surprised how many squeaky clean "white-hat" sites are actually using black-hat tactics.

The thing is, most people associate black-hat with what they can immediately see as spam or scamming. The great black hat experts out there leave no footprints but a nice white-hat site. You'll never catch them. It's those doing it badly that shoot themselves in the foot.

Personally, I don't enjoy SEO. I value it. But it's not something that's as important to my sites as branding and good content for a user's eye over Google's spider.

For my blog in particular, I only draw about 2 or 3% of my traffic from the search engines. The rest is just word of mouth and sites linking to me. I much prefer this kind of traffic as it'll survive the day some Google scientist decides to switch a flick and alter an algorithm which affects your entire business.

SEO can be incredibly profitable. But those who call it long-term are suffering from blindness. It's only as long term as another company (Google, Yahoo etc) allows it to be.

 

[helmuc]

looks like you are from cotswolds yourself

you've got some really fine backlinks (would love to have them) ... but - have you been involved with Tygo?

...Tygo Placement is a Flat Rate Placement (FRP) advertising solution that allows for website owners an easy, cost effective way to market their business. Tygo Placement allows advertising to be shown whenever your keywords are used in a visitor's search. Standard advertising methods charge per impression or per click, but with Tygo Placement you only pay a flat fee on your text-based ad! Fee's are based on your choice of position.

 

[helmuc]

find yourself #31 http://www.tygo.com/Search/?d=0&r=0&p=3&s=tea

 

[helmuc]

and if there is 1 - there are others

did the random check of backlinks (only 1 method)

 

[harryboon]

Mate its not my site, however I know the owner (met a few years ago, bit of a prat)

Makes a nice living from it, hence why I asked about it

looks like you are from cotswolds yourself

you've got some really fine backlinks (would love to have them) ... but - have you been involved with Tygo?

...Tygo Placement is a Flat Rate Placement (FRP) advertising solution that allows for website owners an easy, cost effective way to market their business. Tygo Placement allows advertising to be shown whenever your keywords are used in a visitor's search. Standard advertising methods charge per impression or per click, but with Tygo Placement you only pay a flat fee on your text-based ad! Fee's are based on your choice of position.

 

[joomlads07]

I think SEO is not affecting business in any way...though it tries to increase the business by promoting it

 

[neha1986]

I agree. But SEO is a good ways of promoting your site. there are many many good company which provide SEO services