Is SEO dead?

[trebor8]

Why should websites give anyone a link, just because they like the idea of that......

There are plenty of non commercial websites who will give you a free link and some commercial websites at least will give you a mention if there's a good enough reason to

 

[SqueakyHinge]

So I'm not wrong, but nice try.

My point is, if search engines change the game they can make seo become so poor for ROI that it might aswel be dead.

Let's say google made the top 3 ads turn into 4 ads and then took google places to a paid version like they have done in usa. Where does that put businesses offering local services? It puts them so far down the page, maybe on page 2 if google decide to do that.

Then in that instance paying a search optimiser becomes a waste of money.

page 2 traffic is really poor if any for some.

So whilst it might not die in the literal sense, it will become something that is pointless if you value ROI so it might aswel be dead.

Google shopping is a good example.

Where is SEO for google shopping now? I'll tell you. It's dead. Because shopping is going paid

 

[eventdomain]

commercial websites at least will give you a mention

Commercial websites need to be defined firstly, Secondly, its doubtful such websites will welcome a bunch of SEO agents 'in' without payment anyway so........ This sounds like article/editorial spamming to me, it just has that nasty ring about it.

The only free mentions I'm aware that do work are from the british media - unfortunately its a members club to which strict criteria applies, so the masses won't get such mentions.

 

Commercial websites need to be defined firstly, Secondly, its doubtful such websites will welcome a bunch of SEO agents 'in' without payment anyway so....

Oh you would be surprised what a commercial site will give you for a good link.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Let's say google made the top 3 ads turn into 4 ads and then took google places to a paid version like they have done in usa. Where does that put businesses offering local services? It puts them so far down the page, maybe on page 2 if google decide to do that.

At the moment it is still pretty easy to beat the places pages in most areas. And I suspect if G goes the way you suggest, they will start to lose market share.

Then in that instance paying a search optimiser becomes a waste of money.

There are SEOs and SEOs. A good marketer will adapt to the circumstances. So long as they show a ROI, then they will have value. A lot of SEOs use paid advertising as part of their campaigns anyway...

 

[JulieMcNamee]

Hi

I'm new to this forum so apologies if the etiquette isn't up to scratch.

SEO is Dead is apparently a phrase that crops up regularly and it's been talked about quite a bit at conferences I've been attending over the last couple of years. Good SEOs I think see these changes as an interesting challenge.

From what I can see, good SEO practice isn't being majorly affected by Penguin and Panda, although there have been some knock-on effects with these and the less famous algorithm updates.

SEO is always changing - tricks that help increase your search ranking help for a while, but eventually Google catches up with them. And although Google's made out to the baddy, all they're really trying to do (not always successful) is weed out the rubbish quality sites. An SEO won't be up to the job if they don't keep up with the changes, and black hat SEO should never be the answer.

It's still unique, quality content that you should aim for as well as building linking relationships. And don't forget to take full advantage of local search. For small businesses it's a real boon.

Julie McNamee
webnwords.com

 

[Annoying Donkey]

From what I can see, good SEO practice isn't being majorly affected by Penguin and Panda, although there have been some knock-on effects with these and the less famous algorithm updates.

I tend to agree, though G is increasingly taking up the above the fold area with paid advertising, which is what most people dislike. And G tends to equate big business to 'quality', which is often not the case.

And although Google's made out to the baddy, all they're really trying to do (not always successful) is weed out the rubbish quality sites.

G would have you believe that, but it's not true. You don't need a SE to find big names, they're already known to you. Yet that is what tends to dominate the SERPs for any significant keyword, in the name of 'quality'. The small unique sites (= off high street stores) rarely get a look in and have to resort to other means of gaining attention.

 

[eventdomain]

Oh you would be surprised what a commercial site will give you for a good link.

Except Keyword merchants don't own anything of value to offer. Thats why they spam the free directories, blogs, articles etc etc.

 

[SqueakyHinge]

I tend to agree, though G is increasingly taking up the above the fold area with paid advertising, which is what most people dislike.

Most website owners maybe. Not sure about the general public though.

I used to rely on organic for local services but for large portions of this year traffic dried up due to serp display changes, not loss of rankings.

I had little choice but to start pumping money into ppc, and i did start to get lots more traffic and got some enquiries, not as many as i would like for the spend but that's ppc for you. You need to be able to take the hits in balance from browsers, competitors, people who cant afford you etc and wait until the right visitor comes along with the money to spend.

I think seo is becoming less of a return when you consider time put into it all. Certainly less of a return than a couple of years ago.

Imagine a couple of years from now...

The future is getting bleak for seo.

 

Except Keyword merchants don't own anything of value to offer. Thats why they spam the free directories, blogs, articles etc etc.

Is that why I get hundreds of requests a month for links.?

 

[eventdomain]

Is that why I get hundreds of requests a month for links.?

Its just spam Earl from kiddy webmasters. You might get the odd on-target one, but it will be spam. Its the only stuff doing the rounds these days.

 

[JulieMcNamee]

Its just spam Earl from kiddy webmasters. You might get the odd on-target one, but it will be spam. Its the only stuff doing the rounds these days.

I agree with that, Eventdomain. I haven't seen a useful guest post in exchange for a link in months. But that's not to say that companies making meaningful connections with other sites (and getting good links) doesn't happen.

The relationships are forming on Twitter or in forums like this one!

I had little choice but to start pumping money into ppc, and i did start to get lots more traffic and got some enquiries, not as many as i would like for the spend but that's ppc for you. You need to be able to take the hits in balance from browsers, competitors, people who cant afford you etc and wait until the right visitor comes along with the money to spend.

Squeakyhinge - the trick with PPC is to target those ads to the right people so that you're not spending a fortune on random visitors who aren't going to buy from you. The trick is to exclude as many as you can in the wording of the ads.

 

[eventdomain]

I took a look...

If you take your time to research sites to find high quality sites to contribute to your going to find that you get better results at a faster pace.

Taking time is good, but take too much and you'll be waiting forever, while others pass you by. The web is a giant haystack - and the websites are the tiny needles......

The smart ones found this out early - the stead-fast naysayers are still on the forums trying to figure out what pagerank is and arguing the toss about who has the most links.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Most website owners maybe. Not sure about the general public though.

We are seeing some people coming in from very low rankings - pos 105 the other day, and he/she was a buyer. Also people ignoring a product entry with higher ranking and entering the site via a blog entry, lower in the SERPs instead. Implies they're ignoring any obviously commercial entries in favour of other type entries.

I used to rely on organic for local services but for large portions of this year traffic dried up due to serp display changes, not loss of rankings.

Relying on free services for your business plan is never a good long term plan.

I had little choice but to start pumping money into ppc

There are always choices... For local, getting involved in the community is usually a better return than PPC. Look at who or what is making the local news and figure out how to ride on their backs...

I think seo is becoming less of a return when you consider time put into it all. Certainly less of a return than a couple of years ago.

Here's a search for 'baton rouge architects', 360 local searches per month and the guy claims to rank for ~20 other search terms. It took the guy some 5 weeks to get above the places entries, showing that it's not that difficult. He has other examples of his sites with similar results in other areas. He's selling his course for around 150usd if you're interested And no, I don't recommend it...

The future is getting bleak for seo.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one

 

[Kingdingle22]

Look past the increase in paid visibility - this trend is only likely to continue so don't waste time concerned about it. If you're an SEO, focus on the organic SERPs.

By and large, the rules have changed equally for everyone so we are all on a level playing field of competition.

Yes, big brands/sites have huge advantages - way more so than before - but there are ways to makes wins from SEO.

Key is the niche, it has to have decent profit potential. **** local seo and anything not high earning.

How to rank? It's easy but takes time and money now.

Bury your head in AHREFS. Get firing out personal emails offering something of value (yes, that definitely includes cheddar) in exchange for links.

 

[Ste Hughes]

As long as their are search engines there will be SEO.

 

[NitroSEO]

SEO is dead for the "so-called" SEO Experts who use nothing but automated link building and high pagerank backlinks to manipulate pagerank.

For the actual "SEO Experts", the Google updates have done nothing else but help us cut through the rough. The less competition there is, the easier it will be.

 

[eventdomain]

Get firing out personal emails offering something of value

The only thing that's available will be industry deep-link spots, but everyone knows these are worthless as its too easy to un-follow those web pages. Doubtful you'll get traffic to shout about from those, unless every page on earth is some vast-recognised resource in its own right.

 

[Task-Media]

Perhaps the blame for this should fall on the companies that offer "SEO" and don't actually know what they are doing... Some of the prices being charged for the most simplest of things makes me cringe.

We have a client who paid £1500+vat to a company offering SEO, they were unable to meet any of things they promised my client, then when questioned blamed Google for "Changing their ways" :/

 

[Retriever WS]

Perhaps the blame for this should fall on the companies that offer "SEO" and don't actually know what they are doing... Some of the prices being charged for the most simplest of things makes me cringe.

I have to agree with you, I feel that SEO, however much its changed from G updates. Isn't dead, SEO company's that haven't kept up with these changes need to have a look at how to do things right. Instead of blaming G and shouting SEO is dead.

 

[faradaykeynes]

SEO is not dead its the cow boys need to be killed

 

[mmike]

SEO isn't dead, it isn't any more so cost effective and reliable as it used to be.

I ended my journey with SEO in May last year, it was great run for years while it made tons of money, but it isn't case any more. Now it is just spending more and more, building more sites which will support money site, spending more on quality, more and more...

No guarantee that when you achieve TOP3 you will stay there for longer time... I have connection with director who's dealing with hundreds of website guys trying to put their website on TOP3 to get commission from his company... Sometimes one guy will achieve TOP3 for 1-3 websites for a week. After it websites are mostly banned and game starts from start.


PPC now is much better choice for any real business, and while on-page optimisation is still great way to improve your conversion it isn't any more so effective for Google.

These days Google algo is much better while it comes to backlinks. Much more expensive, much less reliable, and less cost effective.


There is no magic marketing formula which would guarantee you 50% of potential clients for your industry for just £249 per month...

 

There is no magic marketing formula which would guarantee you 50% of potential clients for your industry for just £249 per month...

I take it you don't know the formula then.?:|

 

[Kingdingle22]

I personally wouldn't do SEO for a client now. I have worked in SEO/PPC for three years, including at an agency. I don't think it is cost effective anymore in the majority of niches.

You need good links and these cost.

Only working for myself now.

 

[mobious]

It is getting harder which is bad for the cow boy or people who have had some success and count themselves an SEO guru. The SEO industry has always had a low entry level, all you need is a website and sales guy. It's getting more towards companies focusing on SEM as opposed to just SEO, it's not dead and it never will be.

 

[eventdomain]

It's getting more towards companies focusing on SEM

It has been for years, so am surprised its just being mentioned on forums and blogs etc. It used to be you could SEO your main keyword and do well, then it went to:

it takes 8 keywords to rank for

, now you need at least 25 keywords, which are likely all long-tails which just don't work that well.

To rely on just SE free rankings and think the traffic will pour in, IS a bad, bad idea The results pages are controlled by the SE and they can say what you'll get, and nothing you can do about it if and when you are dropped. Now as stories flood in about

my site got dropped

-

more ways to stand out are required.

I think the problem is too many just did SEO, many dont have the cash to buy links or PPC, and no other options available to them. This with the SEO cowboy consultants, the dreaded link spammers, the cheap knocked out content spam - Google sat up, took notice and killed loads of sites off - and can see why they did this. Google wants a 'clean web' - except they will never get that as the web is overloaded with spam junk.

Come-on, what did people think was going to happen... Obviously the SE's must be careful about their controlling, as could affect advertising revenue in theory.... - but their banning and penalising seems to be working for their benefit, and not for websites.

 

[christina.john]

SEO cannot die but the changing Google's algos will surely be posing a huge challenges to people practicing it. Everything has become more complicated and strict than ever which is why getting on top will likely be difficult !!!

 

[eventdomain]

How can anyone know what the SE's are upto - you cant, won't and never know what they'll pull next. They are a law - the controlling power and that aside, there's just too many websites competing with each other for the best keywords.

Simple maths - if you have 500 flower shops, all competing for the keyword 'flower' - only 1 top spot is available for that word. Google etc cannot place 2 websites for the same keyword at No1 spot.

The rest simply fall in behind and some poor bugger must end up ranking at No 500. The rest.... just end up fighting for the remaining 499 places, using far less effective keywords that fail to match the best keywords.

 

[WHUK]

Search engine optimization helps in creating a good web presence, therefore it is never going be dead. However, the trends of SEO keep changing in accordance with the changing needs and preferences of the people. In the current scenario, search engine optimization is more focused on mobile advertising as the number of smart phone users increase.

 

[threenine]

SEO is not dead. Just upgrade SEO system ever.

think you are missing some keywords in your content there!

 

[directmarketingadvice]

I think that the way google now presents results means that there are far fewer slots on the home page and it is virtually impossible to distinguish PPC ads and real results.

I saw a webinar last month that claimed that, for commercial search terms, 65% of the clicks on google are on paid listings. (35% organic.)

The same webinar made a point that, in order to justify its share price, google needs to massively increase its revenue.

It can't do much in Europe to increase its market share, and average cost per click is dropping (in the US, at least), so the obvious way for them to make more money from search is to increase that 65%.

(BTW, I haven't looked at the PE ratio of Google shares to validate the guy's claim - I'm merely reporting what he said.)

What he didn't say is that Google is under attack in Europe for how little tax they're paying. If they end up having to pay a higher rate of tax in the EU (quite likely), then they're going to be under even more pressure to increase profits from search.

So, while I don't expect SEO to die, it's probably fair to say that algo changes have raised the bar in terms of skill/time required to get top 10 rankings... while changes to the results pages have meant the prize for getting ranked is shrinking by the year.

Just my 2p,

Steve

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

How can anyone know what the SE's are upto - you cant, won't and never know what they'll pull next. They are a law - the controlling power and that aside, there's just too many websites competing with each other for the best keywords.

Simple maths - if you have 500 flower shops, all competing for the keyword 'flower' - only 1 top spot is available for that word. Google etc cannot place 2 websites for the same keyword at No1 spot.

The rest simply fall in behind and some poor bugger must end up ranking at No 500. The rest.... just end up fighting for the remaining 499 places, using far less effective keywords that fail to match the best keywords.

This guy makes sense

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Whatever you're doing you're up there you need to be building a list...that's where the money is. If a website drops from a number 1 organic spot then the business can still utilise the list. We know Google changes algos so why do people moan when it happens?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[rebecca1231]

See at the moment SEO is not dead. But yes the way Google is updating its algorithm it may develope such strategy so that you may require SEO but not 100% contribution out of it. Although I will say it will not be dead.