Is PoD clothing a non-starter in the UK/EU because of the law on returns?

[BoyPaulio]

Hi UKBF community.

I've been setting up a PoD clothing store using Gelato/wix but I fear the project may have hit the buffers even before it's begun.
The main issue is the law on returns. In the UK/EU you have to allow buyers to return goods for up to 14 days even if they just have buyers remorse. Given that there's a likely high percentage of buyers alone who'll want to exchange for a different size once they've tried it on it means that the costs of a reprint/reship are not sustainable for the PoD clothing model.
Can anybody give me advice on how to handle returns/refunds and keep them to a minimum?

Thanks

Paul

 

[Ozzy]

Hi, and welcome!
For custom made products, which it the best of my knowledge does include Print on Demand, the law is different around returns. For example, only if the item is faulty such as detailed here;

Accepting returns and giving refunds: the law

When you do and do not have to offer a refund, repair or replacement, unconditional refunds for online purchases, and penalties for deceiving customers

www.gov.uk

 

[BoyPaulio]

Hi, and welcome!
For custom made products, which it the best of my knowledge does include Print on Demand, the law is different around returns. For example, only if the item is faulty such as detailed here;

Hi Ozzy, and thank you for the swift reply! I had read this on the government website but wasn't sure if it applied to PoD online sales. I guess the prudent thing to do is make it clear to the buyer that they're custom items produced on demand so cannot be returned unless faulty. We can ask them to check the size chart carefully before ordering etc. Might lose a few sales with this policy but infinitely better than shelling out a fortune!

 

[BoyPaulio]

Continuing this, can anybody confirm that it is indeed the case that PoD falls into the 'Custom clothing' returns law? It would also be interesting to know if this extends into EU law too. This is a massive deal for small PoD e-commerce clothing retailers, and I'm surprised it's not talked about more often.

 

[antropy]

Continuing this, can anybody confirm that it is indeed the case that PoD falls into the 'Custom clothing' returns law? It would also be interesting to know if this extends into EU law too. This is a massive deal for small PoD e-commerce clothing retailers, and I'm surprised it's not talked about more often.

It sounds to me like bespoke items shouldn't be legally returnable but this discussion on Etsy seems to think otherwise
https://community.etsy.com/t5/Provi...e-Is-it-Worth-it-to-do-Returns/td-p/139268903

Paul.

 

[wayzgoose]

I think it depends whether you are printing on demand a standard design which you could actually print 50 of or if you are personalising each order on some way.

 

[BoyPaulio]

It sounds to me like bespoke items shouldn't be legally returnable but this discussion on Etsy seems to think otherwise


Paul.

I think the lady on this post may be wrong though. I've just checked EU rules on returns and it does say that the 14-day cool-off period does not apply to custom-made or personalised products. There is a strong case for including PoD as custom made, since it's not from inventory or stock. This is such as grey area!

 

[BoyPaulio]

I think it depends whether you are printing on demand a standard design which you could actually print 50 of or if you are personalising each order on some way.

Yes this is my worry. We have a series of set designs and logo-branded items that we want to sell as a larger brand would.

 

[fisicx]

In which case you almost certainly have to accept returns. You are choosing to do PoD rather than hold stock.

Many people will order a range of sizes, try them on and return the ones that don’t fit.

You can charge a restocking fee but this may not cover your losses.

 

[BoyPaulio]

In which case you almost certainly have to accept returns. You are choosing to do PoD rather than hold stock.

Many people will order a range of sizes, try them on and return the ones that don’t fit.

You can charge a restocking fee but this may not cover your losses.

Which answers the question on the thread title It's simply not viable to risk crippling financial loss. I wonder how many people have been caught out by this?

 

[antropy]

Which answers the question on the thread title It's simply not viable to risk crippling financial loss.

Why not allow customisation of each product?

Paul.

 

[wayzgoose]

Yes this is my worry. We have a series of set designs and logo-branded items that we want to sell as a larger brand would.

In that case, I think you'll have to accept returns. Unless you offer to add their name to it.

 

[BoyPaulio]

....Although Gelato's return policy states: You acknowledge that the Products are personalized and made specifically for each Order.
So their interpretation is that the items are personalised by definition, which falls into the non-returnable category. I think I'll call them to see if they can give me a steer (if I can find a number). I'll post my findings here.

 

[BoyPaulio]

Why not allow customisation of each product?

Paul.

certainly worth considering! So obvious but passed me by completely!

 

[antropy]

certainly worth considering! So obvious but passed me by completely!

I'm good at simple ideas

Paul.

 

[BoyPaulio]

I'm good at simple ideas

Paul.

 

[japancool]

So you price your products to cover the anticipated rate of returns.

 

[Mister B]

Unless you have a box that states what the customisation is at checkout, (or elsewhere during the buying process,) then without a shadow of a doubt they are not personalised and as such returns within the 14 days are permissible.

Far better to work on the reasons as to why they may return goods-make sure that your imagery and size guides are absolutely spot on and returns should be minimal. And as Japancool says, price your products to allow for anticipated returns.

By placing a restrictive term in your T&C's then you're creating a barrier to purchase and potentially acting outside the legislation that covers this.

 

[BoyPaulio]

Great advice which I shall act on. Thanks for your input guys!

 

[LPB 123]

You can charge a restocking fee but this may not cover your losses.

Illegal to charge a restocking fee for B2C.

 

[japancool]

Illegal to charge a restocking fee for B2C.

CCR 34..9:
(9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.

Yes, it's not technically a restocking fee, but that's what it amounts to.

 

[LPB 123]

CCR 34..9:
(9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.

Yes, it's not technically a restocking fee, but that's what it amounts to.

What you are quoting is NOT a restocking fee in any way.

A restocking fee is charging a fee to take goods back in the same condition they were received in.

You are quoting legislation to cover the value of goods being diminished due to handling / use of a product. I think it's very misleading to the thread and to the OP to suggest that they could charge a restocking fee (unless B2B) as it's not legal.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Etsy is entitled to make its own rules as apparently done here

There is nothing to stop you using other less demanding sites or making your own where you can make clear under product description the pre printed items like this one can be returned by following our terms and conditions, whilst doing the same for Print on demand items are made especially for you under your instructions and therefor cannot be returned unless damaged or faulty in some way

Make sure your terms and conditions are clear on your site

Unless things have changed in the years since i have run a company, you do not have to pay for return costs unless faulty items as long as clear in T&C's and normally written in shipping or returns section of site

From my site you would get about 15% returns from female customers and sometimes the odd return from males

 

[japancool]

You are quoting legislation to cover the value of goods being diminished due to handling / use of a product. I think it's very misleading to the thread and to the OP to suggest that they could charge a restocking fee (unless B2B) as it's not legal.

Then don't call it a restocking fee. Call it a repackaging fee.

You're making it sound like it's illegal to deduct anything from the refund you have to give, and that's equally, if not more misleading, and very unhelpful to the OP.

 

[LPB 123]

Then don't call it a restocking fee. Call it a repackaging fee.

You're making it sound like it's illegal to deduct anything from the refund you have to give, and that's equally, if not more misleading, and very unhelpful to the OP.

Changing the name doesn't make it legal. If its returned in original condition, then you can't make any deduction.

 

[japancool]

Changing the name doesn't make it legal. If its returned in original condition, then you can't make any deduction.

And if it's returned in original condition, he won't have made a loss, so where's the issue? He can send it out to the next person who orders one. He's talking about losses, so clearly, they've done something to the T-shirt.

 

[LPB 123]

And if it's returned in original condition, he won't have made a loss, so where's the issue? He can send it out to the next person who orders one. He's talking about losses, so clearly, they've done something to the T-shirt.

Exactly, they won't have made a loss so nothing can be deducted and it was mis-leading to suggest otherwise.

I did not read it in their posts that the OP has suggested their losses are due to the customer doing something to the t-shirt.

I guess I interpreted it as the OP was saying "the loss" was in the fact they've printed something to order and now have it in stock and presumably can't easily be resold otherwise they wouldn't have an issue with the return in the first place and wouldn't be asking if it was personalised or not.

That's how I read it anyway.

 

[fisicx]

Changing the name doesn't make it legal. If its returned in original condition, then you can't make any deduction.

What if it’s been taken out the packaging, worn and then returned. It’s not in the original packaging and may need cleaning and pressing.

 

[Newchodge]

....Although Gelato's return policy states: You acknowledge that the Products are personalized and made specifically for each Order.
So their interpretation is that the items are personalised by definition, which falls into the non-returnable category. I think I'll call them to see if they can give me a steer (if I can find a number). I'll post my findings here.

Something is personalised if it has been altered in some way so that it cannot be sold to anyone else. Saying in the terms and condition that the customer accepts it is personalised does not make it so. The law over-rides the contract in this case.

 

[Newchodge]

What if it’s been taken out the packaging, worn and then returned. It’s not in the original packaging and may need cleaning and pressing.

It happens a lot. Most suppliers seem to think it is easier to take the hit than annoy the customer and, potentially, have a fight and publicity on their hands.

 

[Newchodge]

Then don't call it a restocking fee. Call it a repackaging fee.

You're making it sound like it's illegal to deduct anything from the refund you have to give, and that's equally, if not more misleading, and very unhelpful to the OP.

It is illegal if the item is returned having been removed from the packaging, tried on without causing any damage and then returned.

 

[fisicx]

It is illegal if the item is returned having been removed from the packaging, tried on without causing any damage and then returned.

Easy enough to show staining from deodorant, lipstick, grubby fingers etc.

There was a member here many years ago reckoned on 40% returns. Often because the customer would buy one of each size/colour and send back they the majority. They solved to problem by rejecting orders with multiples of one item.

But we did have a similar discussion here:

Restocking Fees for Ecommerce Sales

Hello, Can anyone direct me to the current legislation on whether an online retailer can charge a restocking fee for ecommerce returns for either B2B or B2C sales? I believe the previosu Distance Selling legislation ended with Brexit. If the retailer can charge a restocking fee, what are the...

www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk

That being said it’s POD model that probably won’t work here with or without a restocking fee.

 

[japancool]

It is illegal if the item is returned having been removed from the packaging, tried on without causing any damage and then returned.

Even if that's the case, the item still needs to be washed (if it's been tried on) and repackaged before it can be resold, so arguably, there has been a reduction in its value.

What is important here is that the OP understands that a deduction *can* be made, depending on the circumstances. He doesn't necessarily have to lose the whole value of the item in all cases. But as fisicx says, it may be different for POD.

 

[LPB 123]

Even if that's the case, the item still needs to be washed (if it's been tried on) and repackaged before it can be resold, so arguably, there has been a reduction in its value.

No because..

CCR 34..9:
... beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.

Trying something on is not beyond what is necessary so you could not make a deduction just for trying it on.

If the customer stained or damaged etc whilst trying it on then you could but just because it may need to be washed doesn't mean a deduction can be made.