Is it worth it?

[bigmama]

Myself and hubby bought a book shop as an ongoing concern in February 2013. Since then I have put more money in but neither of us have taken a wage. It pays its bills and buys new stock but doesnt have any left over for wages. As a consequence of this we are living on Tax Credits and Housing Benefits and my hubby has a part time job at a major supermarket chain to make ends meet. Ours outgoings for our house are more than our incomings and I cannot see the point in carrying on in the shop.
The landlords have put the building up for sale as they are offloading their assets due to being elderly and even though we have a sign up stating 'business not affected' folk keep coming in shocked as they think we are closing.
Trouble is I feel that we should as the worry is terrible and is affecting me but hubby wont hear of it. I feel its unrealistic.
Does anyone have any advice to offer.
The shop is a new and second hand book shop in a touristy area that has hit a slump.

 

[The Byre]

If you were in a growing and healthy market, it would be a different kettle of fish. But the book market is suffering from Amazonitis and ebayitis (with minor symptoms of Kindlitis thrown in). All bookshops are struggling, so you have a choice of selling something else, perhaps to go along with the books, or chuck it in and call it a day.

But please don't throw good money after bad!

 

[Paul_Rosser]

Sadly online companies like Amazon have pretty much killed small bookshops.

You need to sit down and look at the companies incoming/outgoings and the number of hours you are working.

If you can't increase sales to a point where you can make a decent living then sadly it's time to give up on that idea and try something else.

How easy that is will depend on the terms and duration of your existing lease.

 

[businessfunding]

I completely agree with the view that you mustn't throw good money after bad

However you are in it and should explore some options

Think about extending your range (cards/gifts etc?)

How do you draw people to the shop? Readings and signings are an obvious idea but I visited a village bookshop recently where they were handing out cakes and had a local band playing

Perhaps even some PR based on 'we're not closing/

 

[tony84]

Im not sure what your title is referring to... is what worth what?

That to one side...

People think you are closed because of a for sale sign?
How much of the shop if the sign covering? (That was sarcasm)

Put an A board outside with some balloons on? - £10-20 on ebay.

It does not take a lot to make you look open - if that is really the only reason your quiet

Do you do anything else? Kids holidays are coming up soon if they're not here already. Do you have a facebook page (free), you can do kids story telling and sell tea & coffee? Possibly cakes/biscuits but then im not sure if you would want kids dirty hands going through books.

Are there any local writers you could get in to sign copies of their books?


Do you have an online presence? You can set up an online shop for around £15 a year and/or sell on the likes of amazon/ebay yourself to top up any income.

Are you actually looking at ways to increase your business or are you just ticking over?

Is there anything happening in the town? Could you form part of some other shop owners to put on an event? No idea what, but my local village has artisan markets on once a fortnight. There is a village near me that has a local band playing this weekend and some other bits and bobs going on.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Not all small bookshops are failing. Where are you in the country?

I know of a small bookshop that decided to do 'book fairs' which they organised themselves. Childrens books at schools. Craft books at WIs. Car books at local classic car meets etc. It was all stock from their shop but ended up making enough to close the shop and do it full time. I still see their van around after 15 years or more.

 

[The Byre]

My I just complement Atmosbob and Tony84 (one wonders what happened to the other 83!) on their excellent replies.

I hope the OP is not just sitting there and waiting for Godot, or for the customers to appear all by themselves! You have to get out there and shake, rattle and roll.

Maybe specialise? Is there a university or other college in your town - do you do a PX scheme for text-books?

As my two colleagues suggest, how about putting up a stand at themed meetings and events?

BTW, this reminds me of the time I began my first real business. It was a shop and I did not sell one solitary item for three whole months. The time had come for radical action! But I didn't know what. Then I had a brain wave - a stroke of genius - the kind of marketing idea that would have had David Ogilvy want to take my correspondence course!

Free beer at all times!

The place was permanently packed and we made the down payment on a house within six months!

 

[bigmama]

Im not sure what your title is referring to... is what worth what?

That to one side...

People think you are closed because of a for sale sign?
How much of the shop if the sign covering? (That was sarcasm)

Put an A board outside with some balloons on? - £10-20 on ebay.

It does not take a lot to make you look open - if that is really the only reason your quiet

Do you do anything else? Kids holidays are coming up soon if they're not here already. Do you have a facebook page (free), you can do kids story telling and sell tea & coffee? Possibly cakes/biscuits but then im not sure if you would want kids dirty hands going through books.

Are there any local writers you could get in to sign copies of their books?


Do you have an online presence? You can set up an online shop for around £15 a year and/or sell on the likes of amazon/ebay yourself to top up any income.

Are you actually looking at ways to increase your business or are you just ticking over?

Is there anything happening in the town? Could you form part of some other shop owners to put on an event? No idea what, but my local village has artisan markets on once a fortnight. There is a village near me that has a local band playing this weekend and some other bits and bobs going on.

We have done story readings at Christmas, hardly anyone turned up, 3 weeks in a row after plenty of advertising and word of mouth.
We have a Facebook/ Twitter/ Amazon and Ebay account. Amazon sells some but its an expensive way to sell.
we are looking for ways to increase sales and have started selling second hand books.

We have an A Board and have advertised and put notices up ourselves.

We have lots of folk coming in asking if we are selling and why and then we have a conversation about it, they say they dont want to loose us as we are well thought of, but go without buying anything.

We have had local author signings and competitions.
We have advertised events and done advertising with vouchers, all for nothing.

It gets so depressing knowing everyone loves the shop and would be devastated without it but without a wage, even for one of us, we cannt pay our houseold bills any more.

We are in Rural, touristy Suffolk.

 

[bigmama]

Not all small bookshops are failing. Where are you in the country?

I know of a small bookshop that decided to do 'book fairs' which they organised themselves. Childrens books at schools. Craft books at WIs. Car books at local classic car meets etc. It was all stock from their shop but ended up making enough to close the shop and do it full time. I still see their van around after 15 years or more.

We are in rural Suffolk.
We need to look at ideas like that too, thanks

 

[bigmama]

My I just complement Atmosbob and Tony84 (one wonders what happened to the other 83!) on their excellent replies.

I hope the OP is not just sitting there and waiting for Godot, or for the customers to appear all by themselves! You have to get out there and shake, rattle and roll.

Maybe specialise? Is there a university or other college in your town - do you do a PX scheme for text-books?

As my two colleagues suggest, how about putting up a stand at themed meetings and events?

BTW, this reminds me of the time I began my first real business. It was a shop and I did not sell one solitary item for three whole months. The time had come for radical action! But I didn't know what. Then I had a brain wave - a stroke of genius - the kind of marketing idea that would have had David Ogilvy want to take my correspondence course!

Free beer at all times!


The place was permanently packed and we made the down payment on a house within six months!

I am certainly not just sitting and waiting for the customers, but have tried , advertised, put ourselves forward, become involved in the village etc etc, held events, had quizzes and done everything I could thing of, with attending fairs etc next on the list.
if I gave beer away in a book shop it just wouldnt be right and unfortunately theres not enough room for sofas and tea and cakes at the moment.
No matter how much effort is put in it never seems enough to do anything but pay the bills and restock (just about).
Makes you feel so depressed.

 

[Export-Import]

If you have a business and living on benefits and part time job, I think it's time to stop trading and wasting your time / money.

 

[silvermusic]

If you have a business and living on benefits and part time job, I think it's time to stop trading and wasting your time / money.

Much as it pains me I have to agree with that. The book trade is a horrible business to be in at this point in time and I don't see it getting any better any time soon. Yes for some independents with the right opportunities it can work well, but as you're finding for most it's a struggle. Having a love and a passion about a product can cloud judgement, but you seem to have you're business thinking head well screwed on. For the small operator book selling it's tough out there, especially with the overhead of a physical shop. Yes I'm sure all these people will be sad to see you go, but you can't live on fresh air only profit. The public have no clue about business and making a profit, trust me on that one.

No harm in calling it a day before it drags you down, you certainly should not be investing any more in this business. Throwing good money at a business that's proved it can't work is a bad idea, been there, done that and took 3 years after closing the business to pay it all back.

Take a look at something new later if you want to, learn from your mistakes. That's what I did and I've been running my current business profitably from day one for the 3 years it's been running. wish I'd have stopped throwing good money at the old business much earlier but it was with a product (music CDs) that I had a love and a passion about which clouded my judgement. The current products that make up my business I have no passion or love for, I don't make mistakes based on personal feelings, just cold logical business decisions.

 

[Paul_Rosser]

We are in rural Suffolk.
We need to look at ideas like that too, thanks

Us too, off topic a bit but whereabouts are you?

 

[bigmama]

My I just complement Atmosbob and Tony84 (one wonders what happened to the other 83!) on their excellent replies.

I hope the OP is not just sitting there and waiting for Godot, or for the customers to appear all by themselves! You have to get out there and shake, rattle and roll.

Maybe specialise? Is there a university or other college in your town - do you do a PX scheme for text-books?

As my two colleagues suggest, how about putting up a stand at themed meetings and events?

BTW, this reminds me of the time I began my first real business. It was a shop and I did not sell one solitary item for three whole months. The time had come for radical action! But I didn't know what. Then I had a brain wave - a stroke of genius - the kind of marketing idea that would have had David Ogilvy want to take my correspondence course!

Free beer at all times!


The place was permanently packed and we made the down payment on a house within six months!

I am certainly not just sitting and waiting for the customers, but have tried , advertised, put ourselves forward, become involved in the village etc etc, held events, had quizzes and done everything I could thing of, with attending fairs etc next on the list.
if I gave beer away in a book shop it just wouldnt be right and unfortunately theres not enough room for sofas and tea and cakes at the moment.
No matter how much effort is put in it never seems enough to do anything but pay the bills and restock (just about).
Makes you feel so depressed.

Us too, off topic a bit but whereabouts are you?

Rural Suffolk. Would rather not state exactly where, sorry

 

[bigmama]

Us too, off topic a bit but whereabouts are you?

Rural Suffolk is all I feel I want to say, sorry

 

[paulears]

Long Melford is a bit of a sleepy place - and Google is a simple tool, so don't be afraid to say where you are. Google maps shows free parking outside your shop, and your place is pretty typical of small market towns - a bit like Beccles and Bungay near me. I looked at your website too and to be honest, it looks like you have closed! You have pages with no content, and one with a list of a few books. Nowadays, even elderly people can be internet savvy, and it's the sort of thing that can generate business - especially as it suggests you do mail order. If you have specialist second hand sales, why are you not publicising what you have, and letting people buy things! You don't have an ebay presence either. You have premises, so storage is fine. My 86 year old mum uses her iPad to look at the second hand book stock of a market stall holder she likes. She goes through the stock on line and then wobbles in on her walking stick to buy the books, because although she likes looking on line, she won't buy there - so the market guys web site is a bigger shop window. Looking at all the other shops in the road you are in, there's a variety, but your little windows make advertising tricky. Internet presence costs very little. You have a fine name and it just needs sorting out, modernising and redesigning to make it generate money. Your website says Online Shop Never closes, but it isn't open! You cannot order on line - in fact, your website doesn't seem to even tell readers how to order at all, and there are NO prices. expecting people to email just isn't how it is nowadays. In Southwold, near me, a few years ago there was a second hand book shop - I got asked to leave because I wasn't wearing a tie. They went out of business. If you need to make your money from just the locals, then it's going to be very tough for you - because how many percent of them are internet savvy? Those that are, might buy from you, if they could.

Don't be worried that we could find you - that is exactly what you should be trying to do - get people to look at your stock, want it, and give you money!

http://www.landersbookshop.co.uk/page1.php

ps - page1.php is a poor page name choice
Paul

 

[bigmama]

Long Melford is a bit of a sleepy place - and Google is a simple tool, so don't be afraid to say where you are. Google maps shows free parking outside your shop, and your place is pretty typical of small market towns - a bit like Beccles and Bungay near me. I looked at your website too and to be honest, it looks like you have closed! You have pages with no content, and one with a list of a few books. Nowadays, even elderly people can be internet savvy, and it's the sort of thing that can generate business - especially as it suggests you do mail order. If you have specialist second hand sales, why are you not publicising what you have, and letting people buy things! You don't have an ebay presence either. You have premises, so storage is fine. My 86 year old mum uses her iPad to look at the second hand book stock of a market stall holder she likes. She goes through the stock on line and then wobbles in on her walking stick to buy the books, because although she likes looking on line, she won't buy there - so the market guys web site is a bigger shop window. Looking at all the other shops in the road you are in, there's a variety, but your little windows make advertising tricky. Internet presence costs very little. You have a fine name and it just needs sorting out, modernising and redesigning to make it generate money. Your website says Online Shop Never closes, but it isn't open! You cannot order on line - in fact, your website doesn't seem to even tell readers how to order at all, and there are NO prices. expecting people to email just isn't how it is nowadays. In Southwold, near me, a few years ago there was a second hand book shop - I got asked to leave because I wasn't wearing a tie. They went out of business. If you need to make your money from just the locals, then it's going to be very tough for you - because how many percent of them are internet savvy? Those that are, might buy from you, if they could.

Don't be worried that we could find you - that is exactly what you should be trying to do - get people to look at your stock, want it, and give you money!



Paul

To be quite honest I have only so much time in my day and we have just changed the website and it needs more work and that is in the lap of the gods at the moment as I am waiting for my providers to get back to me with some issues.
We have Ebay but there again I havent listed anything recently since taking on the second hand books and entering nearly 800 books and finding space for them in the shop is taking up a lot of my time.
Once the Spreadsheet is complete ( within the week) It shall be uploaded, superceding whats there.
I didnt want anyone to know where I was in case they knew the business and I dont believe in airing my business to all.

 

[silvermusic]

Small world, I use to live in Bures (Essex side of the river) in the 70s and the don't live far from there now, so I'm familiar with the area. If you're trying to run a book shop off local trade, it won't happen, no doubt the person(s) you bought the business from last year had figured that out and got out. Personally I wouldn't bother with you're own web site not at this point in time anyway, that luxury is for later, right now you need sales/profit and quickly if you decide to continue with this business. Much as it will rub against the grain but the quickest way to get sales of books new or used is via Amazon marketplace first of all. forget trying to be all things to all people, you're one person and there's 24 hours in a day. Once you have Amazon sorted out move on to other places such as eBay, etc. Trying to scale your business on local trade will only ever get so far, and sadly in this day and age that's not going to be enough. Too many folk hooked on internet buying. Your audience goes from a few hundred villagers to a global one.

I have to ask the obvious, did you do the figures on this business before buying it to know how much you'd need to cover costs and make a profit and take a wage? Did you see the financial books on the business to know how well or badly it was doing?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

if I gave beer away in a book shop it just wouldnt be right and unfortunately theres not enough room for sofas and tea and cakes at the moment..

http://www.bookstoreguide.org/2013/03/beerwolf-books-freehouse-falmouth.html

Bought a book there last tuesday.............

 

[Chris Ashdown]

We have a secondhand book shop in gt yarmouth that is doing very well selling secondhand books at 50 to 70p each

Seconhand books tend to be fiction and take up less room than the hardbacks

Maybe there is room for you to start selling them in a small corner as see how they go, small sign in the window We buy secondhand paperbacks

Stock will be far cheaper investment, turnover far faster and good chance profits up.

You cannever continue fighting the big book stores, Amazon, and the Super markets so stay in themarket you know and be the best secondhand bookshop

 

[paulears]

Spreadsheet??

One of my regular projects is with a classical music pianist, who has a series of specialist CDs - mainly for dancers. They need music that has very specific content for their exams and practice routines. He sells modest numbers of these CDs direct, through his website and originally it was email for details, then cheque in the post. We put buy it now buttons on the site, and sales went up appreciably. The latest recording consisted of 29 tracks - quite short ones. I decided to make these all available for direct download - click on a button to hear the sample, and if it is what you need, click a button, pay a pound, and download that track. I also made the entire CD available for £15 - the same price as a real CD in the post. He is now selling 90% of his new CD as direct downloads. The physical cost of producing CDs is quite high, the cost of downloads is pence.

If you have a big list - then why not let people buy them? Paypal buttons are really quite simple - you create the list in Paypal, and then paste in the buttons. The first one takes a while, but it gets faster and faster. People would see the book they like, pay for it, and you get an email telling you where to post it. The limiting factor in your present business model is the catchment area of the shop. You can't increase that. You can entice more in, and that's good, but there is a limit. New business has to come from outside your immediate area. Websites can be informative, or interactive. Yours is informative, but quite unfriendly to potential buyers. If they are out of the area, they really just want the product quickly and at a sensible price. They don't care where you are, it isn't important. Your website has a gallery - empty, and an about us - which has no info - it looks like you didn't bother, and is just a web presence. It certainly isn't designed to make money. Actually, my own site is really just a front for what goes on behind it. My own business comes mainly from insiders, so is like yours, a kind of placeholder. However, I don't actually want business from the general public, it is not what I do. My client base would never dream of finding people like me from the net - so I'm not relying on the website to actually generate money, but you do seem to need this.

If you look at amazon - you can see the covers, read synopses etc. Maybe you don't have to do this for every book, but surely the special ones - the rare, the valuable ones - could benefit from an individual page. I know nothing of book retailing, but your clients may be more likely to buy of they can see a picture. I realise this will take time, but if you sit in the shop with no customers, then your time could be free?

I just noticed you said "providers" - you are PAYING somebody to produce the website for you??? Have a look at a product like Serif Webplus - it's really simple to use if you can manage computers and you can do it yourself - AND - keep it updated, every day if you wish. If you have a super complex site, then paying somebody is sensible, but yours really has nothing in it worth paying for, bar the pretty pictures. Somebody is either taking advantage or simply doesn't understand marketing.

 

[Paul_Rosser]

Rural Suffolk is all I feel I want to say, sorry

Fair enough but as paul already pointed out it's quite easy to work out, we walk the dogs in Long Melford it's a nice spot.

 

[bigmama]

Fair enough but as paul already pointed out it's quite easy to work out, we walk the dogs in Long Melford it's a nice spot.

but Clare and Hadleigh as well as Sudbury all have indy bookshops

 

[Paul_Rosser]

They do, but Hadleigh is mostly full of old people who like to use proper shops rather than Amazon, so guess it works well for them.

 

[bigmama]

They do, but Hadleigh is mostly full of old people who like to use proper shops rather than Amazon, so guess it works well for them.

I take that on board, so does Long Melford, and we have a great customer base but as everyone knows Amazon and supermarkets give the impression of being cheap but without the choice at supermarkets and you cannot see what you are getting from Amazon, converting that to footfall is a different thing and I feel worn out by it sometimes.

 

[paulears]

They do, but Hadleigh is mostly full of old people who like to use proper shops rather than Amazon, so guess it works well for them.

This I suspect, is what is commonly thought, but based one what? If you Google for internet forums and Facebook groups you discover quite a few very computer savvy people. If these people spend their disposable income online, you get left with those that don't.

I guess the question is that if your business as it stands doesn't generate enough income for the margin to pay the salaries, then what can you do to increase it? You can't take on Amazon across the board, but you can create niches that can be profitable.

 

[silvermusic]

I take that on board, so does Long Melford, and we have a great customer base but as everyone knows Amazon and supermarkets give the impression of being cheap but without the choice at supermarkets and you cannot see what you are getting from Amazon, converting that to footfall is a different thing and I feel worn out by it sometimes.

There's some really bad guesses and assumptions about potential customers and their buying habits on here. Don't assume older people don't / can't / won't use the net, they can and do just as much as any other age group nowadays. What is an older person? I'm mid 50's and sure as hell don't consider myself "old" I earn my living and do 99% of all my shopping online. I have neither the patience or time to mess about in shops.

You assumptions about Amazon are way off, your view is not the same as potential buyers. I rather fear you're looking at book retailing with a view that's 20 years out of date. The things you think will stop people buying online and why they will prefer to buy from your physical shop are just plain wrong.

In my opinion you need to have a long hard deep re-think of your entire business or get out, otherwise it will drive you into the ground, from what you've said it's already doing so, sometimes it's hard to see the woods for the trees, been there.

Relying on local trade in your location, isn't going to bring in enough to make a healthy profit and pay you enough wages, you've already proved that. The increases you can make in local sales are only ever going to be minor.

 

[Paul_Rosser]

This I suspect, is what is commonly thought, but based one what? If you Google for internet forums and Facebook groups you discover quite a few very computer savvy people. If these people spend their disposable income online, you get left with those that don't.

.

Based on that for some products people actually like to go and browse at a store.

Books being quite a good example as unless you specifically know what you want then going into a store to browse and then buy something is the way a lot of people shop.

Problem is for a lot of retailers, ,customers will go and browse at the store and then order online as it's cheaper.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Problem is for a lot of retailers, ,customers will go and browse at the store and then order online as it's cheaper.

And they even sit on the Waterstones comfy seats, get out their ipads and order the pile of books they've selected from the shelves.

 

[paulears]

In a typical sleepy market town, the smaller stores for any speciality tend to have repeat customers. Some may well browse the books and buy on line - but if I go into a book shop, and see something that catches my eye, then unless the price is ridiculous, saving two or three quid or having it NOW, isn't anything to worry about. Even Amazon have trouble matching Tescos in a special offer don't they. It's all about value added, so the best you can do is flog them something extra. Internet business doesn't mean it focusses solely on price - it seems to me that small proper book shops often have one-off stuff, not hundreds on the shelf. Amazon is nowhere near as good for this stuff - 'None in stock, not sure when it will be available' is quite common.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Amazon is nowhere near as good for this stuff - 'None in stock, not sure when it will be available' is quite common.

Amazon nearly always list my books as 4-6 weeks delivery when their supplier has lots in stock.

I just spotted this for one of my books on amazon.
£128.27+ £2.80 UK delivery

Not bad for a £9.99 book. Just proves they are not always the cheapest!

 

[MASSEY]

I'd bail, sell all the books half price and open a cake shop or some sort of food business if i was in a local village type area.

 

[Sherlock Homeless]

Here's some quick thoughts to help you out, the digital way.

The only way to make money from a bookshop is to the following:

Get in touch with local house clearance/estate management firms and contract to purchase all of the books they have from the houses they clear.

Sort through the tons and tons of titles you will end up looking for the rarities that some people have stashed away.

Create a presence on amazon and abebooks selling off the crap at 1p + P&P (comes to £2.81, leaving you to clear about 55p per book after charges).

Advertise a "We will find the book for you" service in your store.

Start visiting the local book fairs, get to know other traders in your vicinity and trade stock amongst yourselves.

Tell the shocked folk that keep on coming in to buy some books now that they are here as they'd be sad if they weren't, capitalize on the situation.

If its a touristy area, sell tourist things (like maps, bunting, postcards etc.. ) to get them in and then sell em a book for their return journey. create a special, local history area to appeal to those types of situations.

Get in touch with local enthusiast clubs (like knitting, fishing, etc and offer them a 10% discount for shopping with you).

That should be more than enough to keep the money flowing in and optimism pointing upwards on your chin.

Cheers

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Quick suggestion, not sure if you've ever thought about it but...

Why not clear an area within the book shop stick in a couple of good ole comfy sofa's and allow folk to sit down and have a nosey through the book they're wanting to buy... offer them a cup of tea for 50p while they're there... even if you've not made a sale on a book you've got an extra 50p in your till.

Do you have an area within the book shop that would allow the same as above but on a smaller sized scale to allow the local primary school in to the shop to have a book reading lesson?