Is an xml sitemap a good idea?

[ryan4444]

I want to get some of my new pages indexed would it be an idea to create an xml sitemap using www.xml-sitemaps.com/ and submit my sitemap to google webmaster tools?

 

[DesignerNick]

Of course, it lets Google know what pages you have!

Also do it for Yahoo.

 

[itsamp]

Keep an eye on google webmaster tools and ensure your sitemap is submitted

 

[fisicx]

No, no, no , no , no!

A sitemap can kill your site. Read the guidlelines, you ONLY need a sitemap if you update a lot (like ecommerce) or have some really hard to find pages.

If your site is in the index (which yours is) and G visits regularly do NOT build a sitemap.

If you mess up the 'importance' settings then you could see your site plummet down the rankings.

Far better so develop a good site strcture and internal ranking system.

And bin your msofficelive site ASAP as it is obviously starting to hurt your indexing/ranking.

 

[DesignerNick]

No, no, no , no , no!

A sitemap can kill your site. Read the guidlelines, you ONLY need a sitemap if you update a lot (like ecommerce) or have some really hard to find pages.

If your site is in the index (which yours is) and G visits regularly do NOT build a sitemap.

If you mess up the 'importance' settings then you could see your site plummet down the rankings.

Far better so develop a good site strcture and internal ranking system.

And bin your msofficelive site ASAP as it is obviously starting to hurt your indexing/ranking.

I disagree, I have a site that I haven't updated in about 4 months that has a sitemap which still managed 3-5000 uniques per day.

It does depend on how many pages you have though whether it would help but I dont think it will harm it.

 

[fisicx]

Creating a sitemap on a site that is already indexed can cause all sorts of problems if your don't know what you are doing.

It's quite possible that you could imporve your ranking if you deleted the sitemap and lett G dertermine the page importance from your internal linking.

A sitemap doesn't get you indexed any faster, all it does it let G know which pages have been updated. If it isn't indexing the new pages Ryan has created as sitemap isn't going to help.

 

[mobyme]

Do not under any circumstances create a sitemap until you know what your doing Ryan.
For now just make sure that all your pages are properly linked; submitting a sitemap now could be the kiss of death to whatever ranking you have already achieved.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I disagree, I have a site that I haven't updated in about 4 months that has a sitemap which still managed 3-5000 uniques per day.

It does depend on how many pages you have though whether it would help but I dont think it will harm it.

He didn't say WIL kill your sight, he said CAN kill your site.

Unless you have pages that can't be reached by spiders, there is abosolutely nothing to be gained in submitting a sitemap, other than maybe getting the spider to visit a little sooner. If the spider has been but your page has not been indexed (as opposed to spidered), then you need to fix the reason why and not just ask again.

Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO

But I am thirsty and have a sore throat..
Oh! OK Have a drink as well then.

You need to give Google a REASON to include that page(s), not just get it to come visit again.

 

[DesignerNick]

Lots of things can kill rankings and indexed pages also though.

On larger sites I have used sitemaps and a ping to let the big wigs know I have updated it and the new pages are indexed within 24 hours.

I am not saying it is the case on every site but you guys are more experienced and I am always open to learn things like I just have

 

[ryan4444]

He didn't say WIL kill your sight, he said CAN kill your site.

Unless you have pages that can't be reached by spiders, there is abosolutely nothing to be gained in submitting a sitemap, other than maybe getting the spider to visit a little sooner. If the spider has been but your page has not been indexed (as opposed to spidered), then you need to fix the reason why and not just ask again.

Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO
Can I have an ice cream please?
NO

But I am thirsty and have a sore throat..
Oh! OK Have a drink as well then.

You need to give Google a REASON to include that page(s), not just get it to come visit again.

Ruddy good answer! makes sense

 

[I, Brian]

The entire reason for Google pushing on sitemaps was not to find missing pages - it was so that Google would not need to revisit pages that haven't changed - thus saving Google's bandwidth costs.

That's all, nothing more*.

*IMO.

 

[MASSEY]

Im gonn get rid of my sitemap .

But if i just delete it out of my folder.

When google next tries to look at the site map it wont be there, and will prob 404? is that a bad thing.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Massey, no need to get rid of your sitemap if it has been there for a while.

The point being made was that submitting a sitemap when there is no need, can have the potential to harm a site overall.

 

[Toni Anicic]

I had this argument several times before, and this is my opinion on xml sitemaps: they're completely useless if not harmful.

Lets just take a look at a situation in which you need a sitemap:

Some of your URLs are not indexed. You submit a sitemap to Google to get them indexed. What's the point? If you have more than 0 competitors, your page that got indexed due to sitemap and no other factor is surely not going to outrank any of your competitors. It's completely pointless to have a URL indexed if it's not going to rank.

Look at it from the logical point of view, what would you do if you were Google. There are pages buried deep within your website, so deep that spider wasn't able to get to them or there is no link to it. If the website owner thinks these URLs are so unimportant that he didn't link to them higher in the website structure, why would Google give these URLs any high ranking opportunities?

If you want your URLs to get indexed, link to them. Period. Sitemap is evil. From what I saw, Google uses the sitemap data to figure out what do you think your website structure looks like. If you don't know what you're doing, you shouldn't submit a sitemap at all. It'll most likely do you more harm than good.

 

[awebapart.com]

Sitemap is evil.

Yes, sitemaps can be evil.

Google uses the sitemap data to figure out what do you think your website structure looks like.

More often than not, it is what the xml-sitemaps tool thinks your website structure looks like, and what the hell does it know about your website that google cannot figure out for itself. The website owner or the website itself certainly knows more about the website than what the xml-sitemap tool knows about the website.

 

[akirk]

well, I like to see what Google say

Submit a Sitemap using Google Webmaster Tools. Google uses your Sitemap to learn about the structure of your site and to increase our coverage of your webpages.
from: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35769

seems logical therefore to have a sitemap

I do agree though that a 3rd party tool to create a sitemap is perhaps not ideal - but it seems that there is a misconception, that the two options are:
- a site where Google can find everything automatically and doesn't therefore need a sitemap
- a site where Google can't find everything, therefore needs a sitemap, but a 3rd party tool will not be able to build that sitemap as it too will not be able to find everything

this ignores the possibility of:
- a site complex enough that Google might not automatically find everything, but where a sitemap can be produced to give guidance - i.e. creation of the sitemap within the site / by the system.

This surely will give a better option?

I would agree that you should look at resubmitting when there are changes and not otherwise - if the robots had personalities I am sure that they would often respond with: 'why are you telling me about that - I have been there, it was boring last time!'

but sitemaps along with robots.txt files / etc. are valuable tools if used properly. Until Google says don't use them then there is a place for them.

Alasdair

 

[Toni Anicic]

akirk,

Has this idea ever occurred to you:

Google wants you to submit a sitemap so that they know which URLs on your website are not important?

Because, that's my experience. I've seen sites with tens of thousands or URLs in index dropping to just a few thousand several hours after submitting a sitemap.

 

[fisicx]

but sitemaps along with robots.txt files / etc. are valuable tools if used properly.

That's the bit everybody misses. If you don't set them up properly you CAN see your ranking on some pages dissapear or for a new site some pages not rank a well as they could.

Setting the priority on each page is the key to getting a sitemap to work. It's not something you can do automatically as you need cascade the pages: 1.0 for your homepage 0.1 for your T&C and everything else in between.

Read this as well: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=156184 and this: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=183668

 

[awebapart.com]

Google uses your Sitemap to learn about the structure of your site and to increase our coverage of your webpages.

That's OK as long as you put in your sitemap extra information that google doesn't know or cannot learn in the first place, but more often than not, when people just use automated output from automated tools like xml-sitemap, there is no extra information, and in a lot of cases there is misinformation or plain wrong information (priorities, update fequency, updated dates, out of date sitemap etc).

I wonder whether this site, ukbusinessforums, has an xml sitemap? My guess is that it doesn't. But it seems to get indexed fine.

 

[akirk]

akirk,

Has this idea ever occurred to you:

Google wants you to submit a sitemap so that they know which URLs on your website are not important?

Because, that's my experience. I've seen sites with tens of thousands or URLs in index dropping to just a few thousand several hours after submitting a sitemap.

Equally then you can use it to tell it which ones are important My suggestion above is that the correct use of these tools is important - and therefore a 3rd party website constructing it for you has only validity in showing you the correct XML construct which is not difficult...

That's the bit everybody misses. If you don't set them up properly you CAN see your ranking on some pages dissapear or for a new site some pages not rank a well as they could.

Setting the priority on each page is the key to getting a sitemap to work. It's not something you can do automatically as you need cascade the pages: 1.0 for your homepage 0.1 for your T&C and everything else in between.

Read this as well: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=156184 and this: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=183668

Thank you - interesting...

That's OK as long as you put in your sitemap extra information that google doesn't know or cannot learn in the first place, but more often than not, when people just use automated output from automated tools like xml-sitemap, there is no extra information, and in a lot of cases there is misinformation or plain wrong information (priorities, update fequency, updated dates, out of date sitemap etc).

I wonder whether this site, ukbusinessforums, has an xml sitemap? My guess is that it doesn't. But it seems to get indexed fine.

Agree - I am suggesting not using automated outputs - my comment though was made because there seems to be some suggestion on here that there are only two options:
- no sitemap
- automated 3rd party output

there are other options

Alasdair

 

[LaaMok]

I can't believe some of the responses in this thread!

How can a xml sitemap kill your website? Never heard of that in my life!

I have been doing seo for years. Here is my recommendation.

I usually make a xml sitemap on all of my sites anyway, however you dont need one, if you are well navigated.

But for a forum like this one with lots of threads, a sitemap is essential because of how deep the links go.

 

[fisicx]

How can a xml sitemap kill your website? Never heard of that in my life!

Simple. If you have a well ranked site and submit a sitemap with a default priorty of 0.5 on all pages Google will consider all pages to be relatively unimportant and you CAN (not will) drop down.

I any many other have discovered this fisrt hand. Deleted the site map and I popped back up again.

If you have a new site and submit a sitemap then the same applies except you MAY rank lower than google would put you if it didn't have the sitemap priority.

 

[A Party Shop]

I think i'll be deleting my sitemap.xml now

 

[crossdaz]

I can't believe some of the responses in this thread!

How can a xml sitemap kill your website? Never heard of that in my life!

It's a conspiracy by google to kill websites

If the priority or last updated element is the cause of so much worry just omit it. You can submit a txt file with a list of url's if you like.

 

[LaaMok]

I think i'll be deleting my sitemap.xml now

Make sure that you make a note of pages indexed before and after, dont use the site:url command, use webmaster tools.

Your user sitemap should be enough.

 

[A Party Shop]

Make sure that you make a note of pages indexed before and after, dont use the site:url command, use webmaster tools.

Do you mean in Webmaster Tools where it states; URLs submitted and URLs in web index and just make a note of the number? :|

 

[LaaMok]

Do you mean in Webmaster Tools where it states; URLs submitted and URLs in web index and just make a note of the number? :|

Yes, I find the figure in webmaster tools, is more accurate than using the search command. You should always make a note of stuff before and after major changes.

 

[A Party Shop]

Just had a nose around your site LaaMok - love the way you 'selected' the university you went to

 

[LaaMok]

Just had a nose around your site LaaMok - love the way you 'selected' the university you went to

Thanks, but you wouldnt believe the lifestyle I have now!

How many links you got on your user sitemap? Seems to be alot!

 

[SarahPerez10]

Google easily catch all urls of the site at a same time with help of Sitemap.xml.

 

[I, Brian]

Remember the days of when you wanted to ensure Google crawled all your pages, you created a page called sitemap.html and linked to all your pages from it?

And if you had a lot of pages you built it up in sections, as like a directory, to ensure any individual important page was not more than 2-3 links away from the homepage.

Pages not indexed? Try that, and if you have a large and complicated site, lots of software can autogenerate a XML sitemap you can then edit into a HTML document and upload.