iPad - Views

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DotNetWebs

...The only reason you would need flash is for watching videos on news/other websites but most of them are going to have non-flash compatible video soon (if they haven't already) any way...

But at the moment plenty do use Flash so it seems daft to prevent you from using them.

Anyway it's not just video. There countless interactive animations and embedded applications that are not going to be replaced by HTML5.

I can understand why people like Apple products but I don't understand why people are happy to have certain features withheld from them because of a 'political' decision from Apple.

Regards

Dotty
 
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Sacha

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Dec 23, 2009
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Well yeah at the moment news websites do use Flash but they are all going to be using that new format that Apple and Microsoft are backing which is open source h.247 or whatever it's called.

As for the interactive and embedded applications I can't really think of any other than annoying websites that use flash for everything (usually they have a text based alternative which are actually better) and chat websites. Besides Flash isn't universally compatible with touch screen phones so these embedded applications wouldn't work as effectively as a mouse/keyboard combo.

I don't think it's a political decision to not allow flash on the iPhone and iPad. It's because flash uses a lot of energy, it's laggy and has security flaws as well as being close-sourced. It's an actual end-user issue. Instead of 10 hours battery life the iPad would have considerably less if people could use flash on websites. The only reason it has become political is because Abode have made it so.

I think Apple have shown guts in terms of the iPad to not allow flash because what it has done is forced websites to make alternatives. If Apple had allowed flash on the iPhone superior formats like h.247 (or whatever) and HTML5 wouldn't be in use today for websites. YouTube and BBC iPlayer are good examples of this, also most news websites have said they will be releasing non-flash compatible websites soon. This is a good thing. Apple have helped progression on the web. It's all good having Microsoft back it, but without millions of people demanding a different (superior) format then it would have taken years (if ever) for the web to stop its obsession with Abode's Flash.

It's like the floppy disk drive. Apple were the first company to stop using them and no one uses them anymore. When they first stopped floppy-drives people were (apparently) not very supportive. Now it's Flash. Soon it'll be the CD/Blu-Ray drives (blu-ray will be the last physical data storage developed).

Personally I don't think we should be demanding flash compatibility from Apple. iPad/iPhone owners should be demanding embedded applications and video that can be viewed on those products from the websites. And seeing that they have sold millions it's only a matter of time...
 
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Liybpg

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Nov 8, 2009
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I played around a bit with the iPad, while waiting for my plane in the duty free shop. It's a nice toy, very pretty, very nicely done. I don't see myself using it after a couple of weeks playing with it. If I will need to do something, I will always use my laptop, not the iPad. If you have plenty of money you might want to get one for fun, but otherwise I think its a waste of money. It will be one of those things which you push yourself to use because you have paid a lot of money for it.
 
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DotNetWebs

...Instead of 10 hours battery life the iPad would have considerably less if people could use flash on websites...

If you disable the GPS, 3G and Wi-Fi the battery life will be considerably increased too! :rolleyes:

It would be nice, if as with the above, that the consumer had the choice instead of restricting the web content that can be viewed to Steve Jobs' vision of the Internet.

Regards

Dotty
 
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Sacha

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If there was a choice, there would not be a choice - if you understand me. Why would YouTube make a non-flash compatible site if the iPhone had said option? iPlayer, news sites etc. would have no need. There would not be progress and we'd be stuck with Abodes inferior web application for a long time.

Besides you're cherry picking my points.

As for that website. Nice find lol. Why you would want to mess around with all those options on a touch screen I don't know? That's the whole point flash doesn't transfer well to touch screen it was design for a mouse and keyboard.

It's time to move on from flash. I don't have an iPad and I don't want an iPad (my iPhone does everything I need, it's jail-broken, and it fits in my pocket) but I still think that we should give credit to Apple for helping the internet progress.
 
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DotNetWebs

...Besides you're cherry picking my points....

And you such seem to be regurgitating every thing that Steve Jobs has said!:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

I understand the arguments (although [IMO] they have been exaggerated in the above), I like the product, I just think that, at this time, for me there is still lots of Flash content that is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

Regarding your floppy drive analogy - I also think that HTML5 may replace video but will not be a viable alternative to many Client-Side applications. You will be able to do this via iPhone, Android apps etc but not in a browser. In other words, removing the floppy drive did not affect the capability of the machine, just the method of delivery.

...As for that website. Nice find lol. Why you would want to mess around with all those options on a touch screen I don't know? That's the whole point flash doesn't transfer well to touch screen it was design for a mouse and keyboard...

They are simple controls that don't require precise [touch] positioning - the point is I haven't even got the option to see it let alone try is if someone send s me a link to a page like that.

The fact that a large amount of content would be blocked for me is the only reason I would not consider using this device as a primary browsing device.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Android based tablets that are in the pipeline. IF they can pull it of it may be a more viable alternative for many.

Regards

Dotty
 
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Sacha

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Dec 23, 2009
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It will be interesting to see what happens with the Android based tablets that are in the pipeline. IF they can pull it of it may be a more viable alternative for many.

Regards

Dotty

I agree on this point. If Google can toss out a good tablet device that can run flash then I'll concede that everything I said is crap but I highly doubt they will. I know you can get flash compatible android phones but apparently it's not very good at all.

I'm not one to read up on Steve Job's statements so on that part all I can say is great minds think alike? ;)

Seriously though I know where you're coming from (I was pissed off the first time I tried to go on iPlayer on my iPhone ages ago) but if I were to imagine myself using the iPad... well I'd read books (tick), play great games (tick), visit forums and news websites (tick), go on youtube and iplayer (tick), email (tick), watch movies (tick)...

You see what I mean? The majority of things I'd do doesn't need flash and the few things that might need it (news websites videos, 4 on demand, whatever) will soon be making iPad compatible sites anyway. (I understand your impatience but again if it's a for a good cause [progression of the world wide web] then I'd happily wait a few months.)

As for your response to my floppy drive analogy, well I'd say that taking away the floppy drive did effect the capability of the device(s). I mean you were not capable of using floppy drives (that were still in prolific use) - it was a big decision. Just like flash. And I bet you any cash that apple will be first to get rid of the dvd-drive and replace it with an SSD on laptops - possibly in as little as a year.

And as for the HTML5 thing I'm not as tech-savvy as you so you could be right that you wouldn't be able to make browser applications with HTML5 but I find that a bit hard to believe seeing as pretty much everybody is supporting HTML5 apart from Abode (the only company that would be losing revenue from it's wider utilisation and continued development).

Look the way I see it is this: what has apple got to gain by not allowing flash? Nothing. In fact by not allowing flash they actually lose custom (from potential buyers such as yourself)... So why are they doing it? Surely it must be for an end-user reason. Unless they're demanding money from Abode or something but considering Abodes vocal protestations against Apple's anti-flash stance if there was any financial incentive in Apple's decision we would all know about it by now.

OK Apple ain't perfect no company is (the latest iPhone problems and their response has shown that) but I don't think it's because Job's hates the MD of Abode or has a personal vendetta against Flash because his iMac crashed on a chat-site... they are not allowing flash on the iPhone because of real issues with it - or at least I would hope so. Can you really say that you think Apple have not allowed flash on their IOS products for any other reason?
 
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DotNetWebs

...so you could be right that you wouldn't be able to make browser applications with HTML5 but I find that a bit hard to believe ...

I am a fan of HTML5, here's a previous thread I started:

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160881

But I am also an occasional Flash developer and I don't think you can [YET] compare the two as far as creating complex client-side applications.

It will certainly eat into many areas that would have previously required Flash (or similar) but IMO it's not ready to totally replace it yet.

But that's not the real issue for me at the moment. If the content works I don't care what method was used to generate it - I just want to be able to see it.

I was thinking an iPad could be a neat little device to use in situation where you are not going to do any 'work' but just browse the net and communicate with it - on holiday for example

But if I was to take the away for a weekend at the expense of my laptop I am sure at some point I would come across some content that (rightly or wrongly) depended on Flash.

I am sure anybody who used it as their main browsing tool for any length of time would encounter similar problems.

I think it's great that we are moving to open technologies on the web but Flash has been around for such a long time and there is so much out there that it's not going to go away overnight.

Regards

Dotty
 
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newsvend

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May 13, 2008
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All I can add is that the iPad was an absolutely fantastic tool to use on our stand at the Online Marketing Show last week.

I have never been able to stomach the fat fees these exhibition organisers make for simple internet access, so I used the money instead to buy the iPad.

On its Keynote application, I loaded dozens of screenshots of websites of satisfied customers across all sectors who were using our customised news.

The iPad was a real draw, sometimes attracting people over off its own steam! 'Can I touch it?' etc.

But, importantly, it enabled us to display important graphics and information quickly whilst on the move. Paid for itself in two days.
 
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All I can add is that the iPad was an absolutely fantastic tool to use on our stand at the Online Marketing Show last week.

I have never been able to stomach the fat fees these exhibition organisers make for simple internet access, so I used the money instead to buy the iPad.

On its Keynote application, I loaded dozens of screenshots of websites of satisfied customers across all sectors who were using our customised news.

The iPad was a real draw, sometimes attracting people over off its own steam! 'Can I touch it?' etc.

But, importantly, it enabled us to display important graphics and information quickly whilst on the move. Paid for itself in two days.

That's really helpful. I spend a lot of time going around exhibitions (i refuse to pay for a stand etc) and often hand out a lot of documents in paper form, which i hate doing as it's so wasteful. If i could get all my datasheets, presentations etc onto an ipad and show people them on that and e-mail them straight away that would be really useful for me. I know i can do this on a laptop, but it would be far quicker and easier to do it on an ipad not to mention the bulk i would save carrying a laptop and all the documents around.

Hmmm. The ipad makes sense if you have a specific use for it.

Now to decide which one to go for. I guess i need Wi Fi and 3g.

I want to download itunes, a few films onto it and store work stuff, which won't be a huge amount. Buy books etc.

32 GB £599
64 GB £699

Hmmmmm
 
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scribblesvurt

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Jan 14, 2010
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Just one more thing on the Ipad. If your thinking of getting a 3G Ipad than there is an alternative. I have the WiFi only version but already have a Mobile Broadband dongle for use with other laptops and on the road. Simple buy one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zoom-3G-Wireless-N-Travel-Router/dp/B002SXMH12

You plug your usb mobile broadband dongle into it and it turns it into a Wireless Hotspot that you’re Ipad, and any other wireless device can connect to.

Battery lasts about 4 hours and you can get extra batteries for a couple of quid.

· This has the advantage of not needing to take out another data subscription.
· You can use your Mobile broadband with other devices not just the Ipad
· Its Wireless N which is FAST
· It has a Network plug so you can hardwire it to other PC's
· You can change the data provider by just changing the dongle
· Its cheaper than buying a 3G Ipad as it just adds £50 to the cost of a Wifi ipad.

Hope this helps someone.
 
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M

Mass Appeal Designs

As much as I am an Apple fanboy I will be giving this a miss, the only selling int I can think of is it would be great to take the toilet, I would want to be seen on a train or bus with one, especially in Liverpool (sorry fellow scousers)

May still get an iphone G4 though
 
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Jan 26, 2007
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May still get an iphone G4 though


Our iPhone 4 arrived today ..... still setting it up.

It's basically a mini iPad with a phone and camera and you can sinc your computer, your iPhone, your iPod and your iPad all together to share emails, contacts, documents, music, movies, books. Pretty damm good. :)

Barbara
 
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Sacha

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Dec 23, 2009
296
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West Bromwich
Just one more thing on the Ipad. If your thinking of getting a 3G Ipad than there is an alternative. I have the WiFi only version but already have a Mobile Broadband dongle for use with other laptops and on the road. Simple buy one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zoom-3G-Wireless-N-Travel-Router/dp/B002SXMH12

You plug your usb mobile broadband dongle into it and it turns it into a Wireless Hotspot that you're Ipad, and any other wireless device can connect to.

Battery lasts about 4 hours and you can get extra batteries for a couple of quid.

· This has the advantage of not needing to take out another data subscription.
· You can use your Mobile broadband with other devices not just the Ipad
· Its Wireless N which is FAST
· It has a Network plug so you can hardwire it to other PC's
· You can change the data provider by just changing the dongle
· Its cheaper than buying a 3G Ipad as it just adds £50 to the cost of a Wifi ipad.

Hope this helps someone.

Or you can just jailbreak your iPhone and download MyWi (from a cracked depository). This turns your iPhone into a wireless router with 3G internet. I'm sure there's an App that can also disable the limit that the carriers have now introduced on the previously unlimited data plans.

I have an iPhone 3G for nearly 2 years now. I've dropped it countless of times and it is still as fantastic as I when I first bought it, and still receives the same kind of admiration from non-iPhone owners as when I first bought it. I bought my girlfriend a 3gS and our 16 month girl is now an expert with it. She opens her videos (tomliboos, in the night garden and various disney movies), songs (she's in love with justin bieber), rings people, plays with apps and sends jargled facebook and text messages.

I have a reason for telling you this because she actually dropped the phone in the toilet once and it still works perfectly. That is amazing.

The only fault of the iPhone is that when in conversation my cheek always presses the Mute button which is very annoying in important business calls.
 
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DotNetWebs

Just to follow up on the "HTML5 will kill of Flash" debate - it's worth reading what You Tube say about it:

http://apiblog.youtube.com/2010/06/flash-and-html5-tag.html

You Tube has concluded:

"it does not yet meet all of our needs. Today, Adobe Flash provides the best platform for YouTube's video distribution requirements, which is why our primary video player is built with it."

You can be sure plenty of other sites will have concluded the same.

I don't think Flash is ready to go away just yet...

Regards

Dotty

ps thanks cmcp for the link which I stole from this thread:

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160881
 
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Sacha

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Dec 23, 2009
296
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Just to follow up on the "HTML5 will kill of Flash" debate - it's worth reading what You Tube say about it:

http://apiblog.youtube.com/2010/06/flash-and-html5-tag.html

You Tube has concluded:

"it does not yet meet all of our needs. Today, Adobe Flash provides the best platform for YouTube’s video distribution requirements, which is why our primary video player is built with it."

You can be sure plenty of other sites will have concluded the same.

I don't think Flash is ready to go away just yet...

Regards

Dotty

ps thanks cmcp for the link which I stole from this thread:

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160881

Right but now there is work going on with html5 to tweak it so it's as efficient as the 10 year old flash format. It's like Windows and and Linux. Linux wasn't better than Windows when people first starting developing it but with some work it's become more efficient, powerful as well as being free.

Apple are directly (through cash) and indirectly (through the iphone and iPad limitations) helping html5 surpass flash. If there wasn't a need for this (i.e. there wasn't millions of users wanting it) then why would the internet ever move away from close-sourced, inefficient, buggy and expensive flash?
 
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Sacha

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Dec 23, 2009
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Not for a phone. Apple protects the consumer from viruses hacks and stuff like that by vetting third part apps. Apple's hold on its OS is beneficial for the average consumer - all the consumer care about is stability, security and usability. Most people don't know what open source means and for a product like a phone - is it really something that is needed? I've read statistics of android phones have loads of spyware apps and other bad things that iphone apps don't have because apple won't allow them to be released.

Oh and it's also good for developers because they feel more secure about their ip.

And for open-source stuff the jailbreak community is pretty darn good if you're into that sorta stuff. There's going to be a iPhone flash-crack released soon by the way.

But of course i welcome competition and who knows maybe 5 years android will be far superior and we'll be boot-camping our iphone 10gs.
 
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Sacha

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Example:

BBC News said:
Apple has banned a Vietnamese developer from its app store after he was implicated in fraudulently pushing his titles to its best-seller list.

According to Apple, Thuat Nguyen hacked around 400 iTunes accounts, in order to use their credit card details to boost sales of his comic book apps.

Apple said it had tightened its security as a result of the hack.

It has put fraudulent activity on iTunes into the spotlight.

Small percentage
At one point Mr Nguyen's apps occupied 42 of the top 50 book apps sold.

In a statement Apple said that the developer and his apps have been removed from the iTunes store "for violating the developer Program License Agreement including fraudulent purchase patterns".

"The iTunes servers were not compromised. An extremely small percentage of users, 400 of the 150 million iTunes users, were impacted," it said.

It recommended that people worried that their credit card had been stolen should contact their financial institution and change their account password.

Apple said that its iTunes servers were not compromised but it has stepped up security.

Bogus book
It will now ask users to enter their credit card security code more frequently when making purchases on iTunes.

It is not the first time that users have complained about their iTunes accounts being hacked but it is one of the first that an app bought using compromised accounts has dominated the charts.

Amichai Shulman, chief technology officer of security firm Imperva, believes this was Mr Nguyen's biggest mistake.

"It was probably a bogus book and it was just a way to take money from one account and put it in another. If he had kept it out of the top 50 the scam may never have been detected," he said.

It is likely the details of iTunes accounts were acquired via a phishing attack or from other compromised accounts such as web mail, said Mr Shulman.

"We are seeing a trend for hackers targetting accounts such as iTunes, online poker accounts. You can monetise this kind of account very quickly," he said.

Amit Klein, the chief technology officer of Trusteer, a company which provides security for online payments, thinks Apple could do more to prevent such breaches.

"Hacks on iTunes are not so rare, there is a constant stream of reports even though they don't make the headlines. Apple could have better fraud detection and interact with iTune users better," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10535703.stm
 
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DotNetWebs

There's another interesting article here:

http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/07/yo...+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)&utm_content=FaceBook

This reports says the HTML5 is actually causing "tension between YouTube and Apple" because the HTML5 mobile You Tube [web] app is far superior to Apples's own native app.

It goes on to say "it’s clear that the Apple team hasn’t done such a great job keeping up with YouTube’s latest improvements".

I love the comment at the bottom of this article:

"How long before Apple bans HTML5? " :D

Regards

Dotty
 
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Sacha

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Why don't YouTube just update the app or release their own app then? To be honest this isn't really a surprise to me because FaceBook for example works a lot better on the browser than on their own app. And apple apps are pretty bad to be fair Safari is really bad compared to Opera.
 
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sarah.m.dixon1

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Jul 8, 2010
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it seems pretty useful for external meetings especially but i'm confused on the true consumer use of it. I know you can read books, go online and such, but I can still get a book from the library and I can still go online on my phone. I know you'd have it all in one place but I can't image carrying that around all day (from a consumer point of view).

Still, I really like the design of it!
 
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So my ipad arrived and i'm very impressed with it so far. Although my itunes has left me with only 10GB left :(

Big problem i have is that i have set up my e-mails on it, but the one that is on entourage on my mac, i cannot get all the folders to show on the ipad.

Fine on my iphone, just not my ipad.

Anyone help me with this? it's sending and receiving fine though
 
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