Insurance backing for installation guarantees

[Andre78]

Hello all.

We're going to be running a promotion for up to x30 fence installations using a specific fencing system being charged at cost. In some cases of high public traffic we will also be wavering the labour cost.

Ultimately I'm offering customers in the local area who have publicly visible boundary fences heavily discounted fencing if they will allow a particular system and also our sign to be visibly displayed on the outside of the fence permanently.

The system, which is a metal post system, can have any type of fencing fitted to it at the customers discretion. I have a strong belief in the product so I will be offering a 10 year installation guarantee, as opposed to our 5 year guarantee.

Does anyone know of insurance providers for guarantees? In essence to cover the guarantee in the instance of our insolvency?

Many thanks as always.

 

[Chawton]

Don't know of any specific insurers, but that's a refreshingly methodical and thorough approach to dealing with likely objections to the adoption of a new product.

What fencing system are you going to be using/promoting out of interest? The UK market has been appalling for decades now imho. Standard H-Post/panel fencing has the effect of making perfectly nice properties look like they belong to a shanty town.

The only metal one I'm aware of (market disruptor) is that Australian one (Colorfence) but I don't think that's particularly pleasant to look at either. Other than that people now seem to be starting to go bespoke. Which basically equates to lengths of horizontal battens in most cases.

 

[Mark T Jones]

You could try one of the housebuilding insurers, such as Premiere Guarantee


They would require a significant bond though

 

[Andre78]

Don't know of any specific insurers, but that's a refreshingly methodical and thorough approach to dealing with likely objections to the adoption of a new product.

What fencing system are you going to be using/promoting out of interest? The UK market has been appalling for decades now imho. Standard H-Post/panel fencing has the effect of making perfectly nice properties look like they belong to a shanty town.

The only metal one I'm aware of (market disruptor) is that Australian one (Colorfence) but I don't think that's particularly pleasant to look at either. Other than that people now seem to be starting to go bespoke. Which basically equates to lengths of horizontal battens in most cases.

Thanks. Well, incidentally, we are actually going to become approved installers of colourfence products also but I am actually referring to a product called Durapost. It is quite popular up north but not at all down south where we are.

The Durapost system allows the use of nearly all types of fencing to be fitting to it or within it. I.e standard closeboard fencing that runs with the land and any type of panel fencing also, whether decorative of standard. The posts also come with a 25 year guarantee and are far less intrusive/ utilitarian looking than concrete. They can be fitted with concrete, composite boards panels you name it.

They are faster to install but the biggest bonus is their weight, and ability to transport in quite enormous quantities with ease. Easier on men's backs also.

I'm in negotiation on x2 installs at the moment. 1 of which is my own custom design and I will personally be installing it and doing a time-lapse and video intro/ conclusion to the product and who we are during installation. Then of course plastering it all over social media.

I want to get the guarantee insurance set up beforehand.

 

[Chawton]

Thanks. Well, incidentally, we are actually going to become approved installers of colourfence products also but I am actually referring to a product called Durapost. It is quite popular up north but not at all down south where we are.

The Durapost system allows the use of nearly all types of fencing to be fitting to it or within it. I.e standard closeboard fencing that runs with the land and any type of panel fencing also, whether decorative of standard. The posts also come with a 25 year guarantee and are far less intrusive/ utilitarian looking than concrete. They can be fitted with concrete, composite boards panels you name it.

They are faster to install but the biggest bonus is their weight, and ability to transport in quite enormous quantities with ease. Easier on men's backs also.

I'm in negotiation on x2 installs at the moment. 1 of which is my own custom design and I will personally be installing it and doing a time-lapse and video intro/ conclusion to the product and who we are during installation. Then of course plastering it all over social media.

I want to get the guarantee insurance set up beforehand.

Just had a look there! I see its someone else's (Birkdale's) proprietary system and they're holding out a 25 year guarantee on their own website. That being the case I'd be asking them who they use to cover their own or who they'd recommend.

I can see why the ease of installation (weight/transport) is attractive from your point of view but I can't imagine the prospective customer will be bothered one way or t'other about that of course. Think it relies on you really being able to offer options/variety/choice on the style of inserts. I'm not familiar with the system myself (and I'm in the north), nor what their patent covers (I can't see the inventive step they've taken)...but anything which allows people to depart from standard panel fencing options is a good idea in my view. As it doesn't look like a genuine inventive step I'd say don't get too heavily ensconced doing their marketing for them....you could easily get your own steels manufactured and push your own brand if you were that way inclined...the real value will be in the choice of infill styles you can offer, not the post system....but best of luck with it either way!!

 

[Andre78]

Just had a look there! I see its someone else's (Birkdale's) proprietary system and they're holding out a 25 year guarantee on their own website. That being the case I'd be asking them who they use to cover their own or who they'd recommend.

I can see why the ease of installation (weight/transport) is attractive from your point of view but I can't imagine the prospective customer will be bothered one way or t'other about that of course. Think it relies on you really being able to offer options/variety/choice on the style of inserts. I'm not familiar with the system myself (and I'm in the north), nor what their patent covers (I can't see the inventive step they've taken)...but anything which allows people to depart from standard panel fencing options is a good idea in my view. As it doesn't look like a genuine inventive step I'd say don't get too heavily ensconced doing their marketing for them....you could easily get your own steels manufactured and push your own brand if you were that way inclined...the real value will be in the choice of infill styles you can offer, not the post system....but best of luck with it either way!!

Hear what you're saying.

But the customer will be interested in the fact that they can withstand hurricane forced winds, don't rot, are quicker and therefor cheaper to install, can fit into every fence system and can be made invisible to the eye, i.e. clad entirely on both sides with and timber/ composite of their choosing.

Also, I do not have near the resources, or know how to R&D such a product or yes I'd be all over it. It is not rocket science and I'm surprised it wasn't thought of decades ago.

 

[Andre78]

So I had something like this in mind.... Obviously I just wrote this out now so it's not a final draft by any means.

LIMITED PROMOTION

“We’re making you an offer you can’t refuse.”

For a limited time we are offering up to 30 fencing installations “AT COST PRICE”

For highly publicly visible fences the removal of the labour cost will also be considered.


To qualify you must comply to the following stipulations;

- You must be within our catchment area of work.

- At least one side of your fencing must be publicly visible to passers by.

- You may choose your own style of fencing but the Birkdale Durapost fence posts must be used.

- You must allow us to permanently position a medium sized sign of dimensions 90cm x 30cm to the outside of the fencing on public display, along with x2 small 100mm x 75mm signs.

Durapost fence posts are provided with a 25 year guarantee.

Along with our heavily discounted installation charge we will be providing you with a 10 year installation guarantee. Our guarantee is also insured by….


“As members of the Buy With Confidence scheme Montana Ltd t/a Montana Fencing &

Trees are independently audited, advised and approved by Trading Standards – therefore,

we are committed to operating legally, honestly and fairly. In the unlikely event that our

customers should encounter any problems, not only will we endeavour to assist to fulfil all

our obligations under the Consumer Rights Act and other relevant legislation, but both

parties can also get free advice and assistance from Trading Standards, if needed.”

 

[Newchodge]

Have you tried @Frank the Insurance guy?

 

[Andre78]

Have you tried @Frank the Insurance guy?

Nope. But I'll look into it. Thank you.

 

[Chawton]

Hear what you're saying.

But the customer will be interested in the fact that they can withstand hurricane forced winds, don't rot, are quicker and therefor cheaper to install, can fit into every fence system and can be made invisible to the eye, i.e. clad entirely on both sides with and timber/ composite of their choosing.

Also, I do not have near the resources, or know how to R&D such a product or yes I'd be all over it. It is not rocket science and I'm surprised it wasn't thought of decades ago.

No, I quite agree. I'd use the Durapost system to test the market as it's ready to go. I just meant I can't really see what's uniquely inventive about their particular system. If it was absolutely groundbreaking I'd see why you'd possibly do their marketing for them as they're offering you something that can't be replicated. As they're not though (in my opinion) I'd personally be asking them how they could help you build their brand for them.

Re: doing it yourself, you'd simply pay a small engineering firm to run you off some steels to spec tbh. Obviously nothing you'd invest in creating yourself and nothing you'd even bother spending any time researching unless you knew there was a clear market for it first. If it was viable though it would be the proverbial piece of p!$$ for almost any engineering firm to knock up.

 

[Andre78]

Again I get what you're saying and yes the dream ticket is to sell your own product but from my point of view in this time period where fencing material prices have inflated astronomically and work is dying down, being the only approved installer of this easy to use product with 100 miles, that I may or may not buy in bulk at discount is a huge lifeline.

Not only that; we have the largest 3.5 ton trailers that money can buy and still we can only transport x1 medium/ large fencing job in one trip. Not including concrete components, we can transport 5+ which would include panels using this system. And do them a lot faster.

I'm speculating, that with the right marketing and short time running at a loss, we could go from struggling to keep 2 teams busy, to easily having 4 teams installing, possibly even in a recession.

 

[Chawton]

If you feel it represents that great an opportunity-and obviously you know your industry-then I can totally see why you'd want to push it! As I say, I hope you do really well with it!

Fencing has just always been a bugbear of mine so I have (weirdly) robust views. As a small/densely populated island and because of our social history-particularly in respect of gardens-we have some of the biggest requirements of fencing in the UK. At the same time we have some of the absolute worst options when it comes to fencing solutions. Anything which improves this is good in my book.

Incidentally your 'catchment area' is a stunningly beautiful part of the country.

 

[Andre78]

If you feel it represents that great an opportunity-and obviously you know your industry-then I can totally see why you'd want to push it! As I say, I hope you do really well with it!

Fencing has just always been a bugbear of mine so I have (weirdly) robust views. As a small/densely populated island and because of our social history-particularly in respect of gardens-we have some of the biggest requirements of fencing in the UK. At the same time we have some of the absolute worst options when it comes to fencing solutions. Anything which improves this is good in my book.

Incidentally your 'catchment area' is a stunningly beautiful part of the country.

Yes I agree it is very beautiful. That is why I came back here in my later years. Not very densely populated though which also great, but not for business.

 

[fisicx]

How many people have a fence visible to passers by?

We’ve got a brick wall at the front of the house and fences in the back garden. The only people who see them are us and the neighbours.

 

[Chawton]

Depends on the housing stock I suspect. Post-Edwardian there's an increasing likelihood of it having a fence at the front. Not to say all do, but it's certainly fair to say building methods took a dive after Passchendaele, Flanders and the Somme thinned out the labour force.

And they didn't see any improvement after another world war and a dose of free love.

 

[intheTRADE]

It sounds a great offer on the face of it, but I think you will struggle to get people to agree to a permanent sign of yours on the actual fence.

 

[AllUpHere]

It sounds a great offer on the face of it, but I think you will struggle to get people to agree to a permanent sign of yours on the actual fence.

From a marketing perspective the idea is a bad one. That's not what the OP is asking though, he wants to know about insurance.

 

[Andre78]

There are a lot of houses with a rear garden fencing that faces on to a public highway. I randomly viewed one on Friday and I knocked on the door of one on Saturday. Both local and will have 1000's of passers by. The one I knocked on Saturday randomly had no cold calling signs on the front door and were well up for negotiating. I have quoted and they are coming back to me today.

 

[Andre78]

From a marketing perspective the idea is a bad one. That's not what the OP is asking though, he wants to know about insurance.

We already put small signs on most of our more public fences and they do bring in business. I know one particular fence has brought in 20+ calls from a 3"x 2" sign. Customers don't seem to mind, despite not being paid anything for them.

How is this a bad idea from a marketing point of view?

 

[Chawton]

It's self-evident it works from a marketing perspective (you only need see how a newly installed fence will influence a neighbour to do the same and so on and so forth along a street), so to say it's a 'bad idea' is plainly wrong. There will no doubt be better ideas though depending on the amount of work you can handle.

 

[fisicx]

On my way back from Sainsbury’s yesterday I looked at all the properties (including a new housing estate). Not one of them had a public facing fence.

In any case, if I’m paying for a garden fence I don’t want your advert. You can put up your board while you are working, after that it goes.

 

[Chawton]

On my way back from Sainsbury’s yesterday I looked at all the properties (including a new housing estate). Not one of them had a public facing fence.

In any case, if I’m paying for a garden fence I don’t want your advert. You can put up your board while you are working, after that it goes.

Lol!

That's what I was thinking tbf. And probably what most people would be inclined to think.

And even in those cases where they do agree in return for a discount....I can't honestly see it staying on for too long after the work's been done and they've forgotten about the benefit they've derived from it. A commercial sign placed with that degree of notoriety would likely be felt to lower the status/prestige of the homeowner...and prestige is one of the main reasons they'll be after a new fence to begin with.

May still get a few enquiries to kick things off though in the 6 months-1 year that they might remain in place for. From an initial traction point of view I don't think it's a terrible idea.

 

[AllUpHere]

It's not the idea of a sign that's a bad one, it's the rest of the idea.

Doing stuff free or cheap in this way is just a sign of desperation. Fencing work (especially this type) is incredibly easy and cheap to generate. You will be giving away money for no reason. It would make more sense to not offer free labour, and use the funds to promote the idea in a more targeted way.

Anyway, my point was simply that this thread is about insurance, not the validity of a fundamentally flawed marketing idea.

 

[AllUpHere]

Lol!

That's what I was thinking tbf. And probably what most people would be inclined to think.

And even in those cases where they do agree in return for a discount....I can't honestly see it staying on for too long after the work's been done and they've forgotten about the benefit they've derived from it. A commercial sign placed with that degree of notoriety would likely be felt to lower the status/prestige of the homeowner...and prestige is one of the main reasons they'll be after a new fence to begin with.

May still get a few enquiries to kick things off though in the 6 months-1 year that they might remain in place for. From an initial traction point of view I don't think it's a terrible idea.

It's an interesting point. Actually, once a sign has been up for some time people become blind to it. If it's going to work, it will work quickly. Obviously there are exceptions, but generally any work you'll pick up will come within a few weeks of the sign going up.

 

[Andre78]

On my way back from Sainsbury’s yesterday I looked at all the properties (including a new housing estate). Not one of them had a public facing fence.

In any case, if I’m paying for a garden fence I don’t want your advert. You can put up your board while you are working, after that it goes.

I understand this. What you're not grasping though is that there are properties that back on to main roads where it is not easily notable who's property the fence is for. In some cases the customer will rarely ever pass by that direction and the sign being on the back side of their fence is something they will see once in a blue moon. This is more common in the forest area.

There are many signs on fences in our area dotted around. A lot of them are extremely successful, large fencing companies. They aren't doing it because it doesn't work. And I haven't seen them using this particular system.

 

[Chawton]

It's an interesting point. Actually, once a sign has been up for some time people become blind to it. If it's going to work, it will work quickly. Obviously there are exceptions, but generally any work you'll pick up will come within a few weeks of the sign going up.

That's a really useful insight actually! And straight away could make it a more palatable offer to any would-be initial customers. Just ask them to display the sign for a few months. Probably mean much less objection.

Just out of interest, what makes you say that fencing is so easy to market/generate work for btw? Is it simply to do with the poor state of competitor marketing or is there something peculiar about the category itself that makes it straightforward from a marketer perspective?

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Does anyone know of insurance providers for guarantees? In essence to cover the guarantee in the instance of our insolvency?

Along with our heavily discounted installation charge we will be providing you with a 10 year installation guarantee. Our guarantee is also insured by….

Sorry, but I don't think an insurance backed guarantee is going to be viable in this scenario.

You will need to demonstrate to insurers that there is volume here - its not worth their time in underwriting a guarantee for a few installations. Not only that, but you would need to have a decent credit record and will probably need to provide insurers with a personal guarantee of some sort!

Why not just provide your own 10 year installation guarantee - I can't see that having an insurance backed guarantee will help create sales. Especially as you say you have exclusivity in the product?

 

[Chawton]

I understand this. What you're not grasping though is that there are properties that back on to main roads where it is not easily notable who's property the fence is for. In some cases the customer will rarely ever pass by that direction and the sign being on the back side of their fence is something they will see once in a blue moon. This is more common in the forest area.

There are many signs on fences in our area dotted around. A lot of them are extremely successful, large fencing companies. They aren't doing it because it doesn't work. And I haven't seen them using this particular system.

Makes a lot more sense in respect of rural/semi rural fencing which runs a distance from the dwelling itself. You know your industry and you know your territory and what you're suggesting is obviously way more acceptable in places like the New Forest. I've seen a lot of it myself.

Different story if it's slapped on the front fence of a semi detached on a suburban road a couple of feet in front of the house itself.

 

[AllUpHere]

That's a really useful insight actually! And straight away could make it a more palatable offer to any would-be initial customers. Just ask them to display the sign for a few months. Probably mean much less objection.

Just out of interest, what makes you say that fencing is so easy to market/generate work for btw? Is it simply to do with the poor state of competitor marketing or is there something peculiar about the category itself that makes it straightforward from a marketer perspective?

It's just about everything about the industry; it's just one of those businesses that's a bit of a gift from a marketing perspective. It's an industry in which many customers have been disappointed with previous work (due to the woefully inadequate preservatives now used for timber products meaning their nice new fence fails very prematurely), the industry attracts a lot of people who are in business because they aren't capable of much more than digging holes in the ground, one in which 'points of differentiation' are incredibly easy to come by, and one for which the promotional marketing is very cheap (whilst also being very effective).

There are other reasons, but you get the idea. It's also an industry in which upselling works incredibly well ( to the point that you have to be careful not to cross the line into 'bait and switch)'.

 

[Chawton]

Superb insight! Genuinely interesting.

OP...well worth taking note! You're obviously going to sell the improved functionality/quality of it so maybe 'free'/heavily discounted offers are the wrong alignment. Or at the very least keep this well away from any public marketing material when you attempt to gain initial traction.

Fencing has needed a kick up the arse for decades now. The 'holes in the ground' characterisation was hilarious and goes a long way to explaining why!

 

[AllUpHere]

Superb insight! Genuinely interesting.

OP...well worth taking note! You're obviously going to sell the improved functionality/quality of it so maybe 'free'/heavily discounted offers are the wrong alignment. Or at the very least keep this well away from any public marketing material when you attempt to gain initial traction.

Fencing has needed a kick up the arse for decades now. The 'holes in the ground' characterisation was hilarious and goes a long way to explaining why!

The above was a brief overview. There are actually loads of points that all come together to make fencing contracting a marketing 'gift'.
There is absolutely no need to be doing stuff free of cheap in order to gain traction in this market. The market is crying out for it, and is happy to pay.

 

[fisicx]

Spoke to Danny who had done quite a lot of work us over the years and he sticks with concrete spurs and wooden posts. People like them, they are easy to install and you can attached anything to them.

In high winds he said it’s the panels that go first. In fact you want the panels to go leaving the posts behind. And if they do snap it’s easy to replace (on the spur).

Might be a north/south thing. But can’t see the benefits of your system.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I get the sense that you are bogging yourself down with product knowledge and love of the product

Key questions:

Who are your customers?
Do they really care? (this is critical to the insurance question)

If you are dealing with main contractors, they will have their own set of criteria (including insurance) that they will want you to meet.

If you are dealing with Jo public, they will want to know that it's durable, adaptable and decent value - They will most likely be OK with your own guarantee.

Don't make things harder than they need to be.

 

[AllUpHere]

I've been pondering some of the points in this thread. We should start a fencing thread; it's an interesting, lucrative but often overlooked industry.

 

[MarkOnline]

Its a franchise model from the bits Ive read, with 50 franchisees, it doesnt seem to be breaking any pots. The franchise prospectus states TO in the £100,000's for a territory of 150,000 properties. It sounds good but the numbers dont seem to support the hype.
It could be a direct sale dream but the profit margins quoted arent meaty enough IMO to support the not inconsiderable costs of building volume business. If it was as lucrative as some people believe then the hold co would be doing it. As has been stated they didnt want the marketing/sales cost. If in doubt about scaling it yourself, franchise it, why risk your own money.

 

[MarkOnline]

I've been pondering some of the points in this thread. We should start a fencing thread; it's an interesting, lucrative but often overlooked industry.

Is it? The numbers from the holdco dont look that lucrative for a company with a national market an exclusive "better" product and 17 years of trading.

A fencing marketing thread is a good idea though.