Indian SEO

[MDUK]

We were contacted by an Indian SEO company this week and as we are currently re-designing our website at the moment (which has no SEO on it at all) it seemed a good time to consider it.

However the quote was just too vague for me to commit (see below)

"I did review the website & strongly feels that there's great scope of
improvement in rankings. -

We should be able to see some concrete results by 6 months. By this
statement, I mean that let's say we are working on 20 keywords then after a
span of 3 months, you will start noticing positive improvements"

I also googled their company, checked the links to them and searched on a few terms to look for an Indian SEO company and was not impressed by their rankings.

But it did get me thinking about using an Indian company, In principle I can get more for my money - we are fairly niche, i don't need big volumes of clients to make this work so I am very tempted...

Has anyone got any experience of overseas SEO companies they are willing to share please?

 

[FireFleur]

Well I would advise you get a copy of Google hacks by O'Reilly.

Google is not as hard as you may think, it is just about making pages well, and structuring information well.

Search results rank differs from page rank just so you know.

Currently I am looking at page rank, and link juice spillage, but I suspect it won't really matter, page rank is only one of a myriad of things that google search ranks on, it just so happens that is how they started.

Where page rank matters is when you are in a highly competitive area.

So, the basic advice is add a page a day of at least 200 relevant words to your site, and you will see results in about 6 months.

But you do have to wonder if your competitors are doing the same

 

[matt.chatterley]

No experience of offshore SEO companies, but plenty of experience working with offshore developers in a previous life.

It can be good. It can be bad - as with all things, the needle can swing a fair way in either direction.

I personally believe that solid communication is an essential foundation for this sort of exercise - and would therefore be reluctant to use someone too far away.

Perhaps get a few quotes, and compare the prices (and promises) to some closer to home? Don't rule it out as an option, but always be cynical!

You need to make sure they are using 'good' techniques (e.g. not simply building up 100s of very low value links to your site), too - they should be able to give you some insight into the practices they will use - so that you can draw some conclusions.

 

[FireFleur]

My feeling is it is not so much SEO, wander round get links alter little bits and pieces.

As it is developing the site well, and by that I mean you are using a template system. So, you actually better off using a developer who understands SEO, but who can take your site and restructure it into something that is flexible.

For that you need to have quite a close relationship, as I say page rank is not too important it is more to do with the actual content of the site and how it relates semantically when it comes to google, and most of the other search engines.

There are little AI routines going on, wouldn't surprise me if they are using genetic algorithms, it is actually quite an apt area to do it in. And the information is related, so you don't just want 200 pages of something, you want it to do with your site. And you should also be careful of controling those pages, because the link juice can be redirected around.

 

[fisicx]

Most outsourced SEO work comprises link building and whilst inbound links help the sort that many outsourced SOO companies obtain are worthless. It follows therefore that you need to concentrate on on-site SEO rather than off-site SEO.

In this respect I wouldn't outsource any SEO work until the site has been indexed and ranked and you know which pages you need to promote.

And the fact that they mention 20 keywords shows they have no idea about how people use search engines these days.

 

[ux-media]

In my experience, managing offshore outsourcers can create unique headaches. I've been left sorting issues out at 2am in past web dev projects. Ouch.

You also need a good understanding of what's being done fundamentally, so that if you need to switch providers you still have a decent foundation in place and information for them to hit the ground running.

There are a lot of good quality local providers around who are likely to give you more one-on-one attention in my experience.

 

[matt.chatterley]

Most outsourced SEO work comprises link building and whilst inbound links help the sort that many outsourced SOO companies obtain are worthless. It follows therefore that you need to concentrate on on-site SEO rather than off-site SEO.

In this respect I wouldn't outsource any SEO work until the site has been indexed and ranked and you know which pages you need to promote.

And the fact that they mention 20 keywords shows they have no idea about how people use search engines these days.

So called "OffSite SEO" in any way shape or form is only valuable once the on-site stuff is done well. Just wanted to agree.

Also though - SOO above - presumably a typo - could actually stand for "Sort Of Optimisation".. quite apt in the context of offshores!

 

[fisicx]

Also though - SOO above - presumably a typo - could actually stand for "Sort Of Optimisation".. quite apt in the context of offshores!

I like it!

 

[domokun]

I have experience of working with offshore SEOs.

In general, the best way to manage an offshore project is to clearly define deliverables.

Its true that SEO is a long-term gain. They will not build a link for you Monday and you'll see a spike in traffic on Tuesday. Most SEOs will say 3-6 months before noticable improvement although it can be much sooner.

I, for example, worked on an established site for 2 weeks (on site optimisation) and 1 week (link building etc). Within a month there positions had improved by (on average) 70 search positions i.e. they were on page 7 or high in Google. I got them on page 1 or 2.

I digress ... you'll need to define actions and deadlines to successfully work with an outsourcer. As they are an indian SEO company, Im going to assume they aren't charging you much. Therefore, they should do the basics for you. My advice would be to search for some basic principles of SEO, which will include things like:

Meta tag optimisation
On page copy optimisation
Code optimisation
Internal linking
New content creation
Directory links
Relevant links
Link exchanges

Then, ask the offshorers to define what they will do for each category and when it will be delivered.

Give them 30% upfront to kick start the project. 30% when they are just over half way through and the final 40% on completion.

Crucially there are no guarantees with SEO, especially when contracting with a company so far away. You'll know you've got your monies worth by making sure all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed. If anything happens within a few months of the work being completed then you can treat this as a bonus.

 

[altyfc]

I have outsourced to India for content in the past and, to be frank, although there was a saving to be had, I ended up feeling it wasn't worth it because of the time taken to forever communicate my needs.

 

[MDUK]

Interesting responses - thank you.

I was a little sceptical of the company that approached me, mainly because there website was incomplete, there didn't appear to be many links into them and they didn't rank on a search on "indian SEO companies".

The idea of a 6 month project at a cost that i could afford did/does appeals so i have asked for quotes form three of the top ranking companies on that search term.

I have optimised a couple of local sites and it is really very easy to rank well because a) there is little competition and b) the ones there are have done very little optiimsation themselves.

I want to optimse the relaunch of a site (PR3) which is in a much more competitive industry and with very competitive keywords (but much higher revenue potential) but even then i would be very happy to focus on one sector in one geographical area of the UK - i simply dont' have the time (nor can i make time) so maybe i should just be looking for someone closer to home...

 

[ken_uk]

Personally I would stay clear of the offer.

Different country, different culture, different perspectives, lifestyles etc mean they wont know how to optimise as well as someone who knows your target country/lifestyle well (unless your site targets india)

Plus, if it goes wrong its going to be next to impossible to have any legal comeback, bit tricky suing people in india if they run away with your money or screw up your site totally.

I would hazard a guess that the quality may be shocking, if its anything like the countless spam SEO sites that get submitted to my directory from india, usually low quality, and badly submitted and almost always in the wrong category.

 

[domokun]

I want to optimse the relaunch of a site (PR3) which is in a much more competitive industry and with very competitive keywords (but much higher revenue potential) but even then i would be very happy to focus on one sector in one geographical area of the UK - i simply dont' have the time (nor can i make time) so maybe i should just be looking for someone closer to home...

Good luck, let me know how you get on.

On a related note, one of my freelancers (based in the US) has gone AWOL! In the past he has produced good work but, all of a sudden, he's disappeared.

Although this is going to cost me time, it's not going to affect anything else as I stuck to my rules: gave him several small jobs to do (instead of one big one), held payment in an escrow account until job was done.

I can now give the jobs to a few more freelancers and move the money from one escrow to another. It's a bit frustrating but that's the outsourcing business for you! Or my experience of it anyway

 

[Simon-M]

Here is a question you need to answer before you consider working with any foriegn company.

"What would happen to my business if google decided it did not want me in it's index?"

If you can answer this question then you are ready to take the risks involved in using an SEO company. SEO is all about risk and reward. The more risk, the greater the reward and the harder the fall.

My business would be hard hit if google decided it no longer liked me. Because of this I need to reduce my risks. To reduce my risks I need to work with an SEO company that adheres to current best practices and has a record of success. I also need to be able to communicate well with the company and I need to know that the company is trustworthy looking after my confidential company information.

The problem you have in outsourcing this work is that you increase your risk dramatically. There are enough rogue UK businesses to avoid without adding the rest of the world to the list.

My adice is to ask in the tenders forum for interested SEO's to contact you. Then when you have shortlisted one or two of them, ask if anyone here has used them and what their experience was. You can also ask for recommendations and people will be happy to advise.

Simon

 

[MDUK]

The freelancers going missing is an interesting conundrum - i think logoquality makes good points, i might do that.

 

[jack2000]

Search results rank differs from page rank just so you know.

 

[rightconsultant]

This thread took my eye as I'm in a similar position.

We have been using an American business that outsources their web development out to India and Mexico. All of the team are on MSN messenger and the senior Indians are excellent English speakers whilst you can get by with the junior developers.

With everyone on MSN, I actually find that the communication is better than what it would have been had everyone been in the UK but not using 'always-on technology'.

However, I've also come into contact with another Indian company that does SEO and I'm in the same dilemma. They're a company called 'Webworx'. The MD speaks and writes perfect English and the marketing literature on their site is top notch. What's more is that they're set-up for the UK - working uk office hours, giving all of their team English names and soon will be setting up a London office. They also use MSN messenger.

They've given a lot of case studies which all look good and their quote is very detailed with a full action plan.

I'm sure all this must sound great but this is an important decision. If by any chance anyone has heard of them, I would be interested to hear your comments.

Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 27344]

... I also googled their company, checked the links to them and searched on a few terms to look for an Indian SEO company and was not impressed by their rankings ...

There you go then. If they are rubbish how can you expect them to be any good for you?

 

You will be contacted by lots of companies making you offers regarding SEO, and most that contact you will tell you all sorts of things, and make all sorts of promises - most of which will be empty. I say most as there might be a good'un in there if you are lucky.

Put your site together, read up on a little SEO as someone has kindly listed, and then look towards your future needs and contact someone on here, whom you can trust and get recommendations for.

I am always a great believer in going looking for a company to do a particular job, rather than just accepting the first one who phones me.

 

[media]

I would suggest you check whether its a registered company or individual.
I recommend you go for registered companies rather than working with individual free lancer, unless they are highly reputable.
I recommend you to check with their track record, ask them for their previous projects, current projects and firstly check if they are commercial or websites run by the company itself (projecting them as if their clients).

Start with less targets for less money then when you see the growth you can increase your targets as well as the pay.

If you get the right company you will see good results as well as have a good experience

I know UK SEO company who works with TOP commercial companies but as you said you have a limited budget I do not think you will go for them

Also if you had let us know your theme or some info may be some of the members can suggest you good companies.

Cheers

 

[fisicx]

However, I've also come into contact with another Indian company that does SEO and I'm in the same dilemma. They're a company called 'Webworx'. The MD speaks and writes perfect English and the marketing literature on their site is top notch.

Really? Their SEO strategy is complete bollox:

...linkage with appropriate partners for online marketing and advertisement positioning, and submission to popular search engines and other directories.

And the UK site is undergoing maintenance.

 

[rightconsultant]

Can you be a bit more specific than just saying it's "complete bollox"?

The site webworxindia.com is working fine for me, they haven't launched their uk site yet. It's a question as to whether they're reliable.

 

[fisicx]

If you look at their SEO strategy they miss many of the key elements required to imoprove ranking. They mention sorting your metatags when it is well known that metatags hove zero influence on ranking. Search engine submission is also a waste of time - if your site is in the index then there is no need to submit. They also mention linking with appropriate partners - sounds very much like exchange linking which is specifically frowned upon by google.

Sounds linke they are doing SEM not SEO - marketing your website rather than making the changes to your site necessary to improve your ranking. If they aren't pouring over every line of code in your site then they aren't doing SEO.

 

[rightconsultant]

Ok, thanks - I see what you mean.

They did write an action plan as part of their quote which might be more revealing than their copy. A lot of these things I've either done or doing but once I've done as much as I can, I will need to use my time elsewhere. Hence, why I'm looking for an SEO company that we can afford.

Their Actionplan -

1) Add Titles, Meta Description and Meta keywords to the all pages.​

2) The website has less back links. We would request relevant websites for link

exchange.

3) Do search directory submissions. As per the categories the websites are submitted
and this process is also called "One Way Linking". This process helps in high
website rankings on search engines.
Do more and more submissions of the website to attain Google Page Rank (PR)
which would further help link exchanging with related websites easier.
4) Add Keywords to the images in form of Alt Tags.
5) Link Exchange and Directory Submissions would help to attain good Page Rank.
(Page Rank is attained by the number of back links to a website).
6) Analyze the market and competitors website and accordingly make a set of​

keywords as per the KEI and density and further group it as per the webpage

content and add it to the <Meta tags>.
7) Adding Sitemap in two formats - Google sitemap and Resource of Resource (ROR)​

Sitemap.

8) Validate all HTML pages with W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) Web standards​

rule.

Comments would be appreciated.​

 

[media]

If you look at their SEO strategy they miss many of the key elements required to imoprove ranking. They mention sorting your metatags when it is well known that metatags hove zero influence on ranking. Search engine submission is also a waste of time - if your site is in the index then there is no need to submit. They also mention linking with appropriate partners - sounds very much like exchange linking which is specifically frowned upon by google.

Sounds linke they are doing SEM not SEO - marketing your website rather than making the changes to your site necessary to improve your ranking. If they aren't pouring over every line of code in your site then they aren't doing SEO.

You are right but I perceive it as general off page SEO (it could be some general article stuff?) I haven't checked their website yet. Also, strategies are the real game play for any marketing and I am sure no real SEO company will "how they did or what exactly they will do". All they put is general stuff that you see on every company website (may be in different way to appeal the customer that they know what they are doing). One strategy will not necessarily work for other website.
So I guess this might not be the strategy and may be a general list of SEO activities (to their knowledge).


Anyways for people who wants to hire any SEO company (either it’s from India or within UK) it’s beneficial to do your own research about their track record. Remember "quality SEO is not cheap...[FONT=&quot][/FONT]"

 

[sabian1982]

At the end of the day MDUK you ultimately need to steer completely clear of this specific company that has approached you. Would you buy something from a cold caller? If their own business is so good, why are they having to resort to spam to attract customers- you wonder why their assessment of your site was vague, its because they have no doubt sent the exact same content to hundreds if not thousands of other random websites!

As with everything if you want to go down the outsourcing to india route do your research. Look for companies that other people have used, find companies that other people will independantly recommend- although i've no experience of them, these type of companies are probably pretty crap for quality link building however for the boring, repetative tasks such as directory, general social bookmarking and article submissions, they could prove useful based on the generally low price! That being said, you get what you pay for!

 

[edmondscommerce]

you guys might find this blog post interesting..

I get contacted by SEO companies a lot and generally its for link building. I always get them to do me ten links as a sample and invariably they are rubbish. (However I don't mind getting rubbish links for free).

The one in this blog post though as a guy based in the UK who was offering something much worse.

Whereas an Indian company getting you links on a load of worthless directories etc might be bad - this guy was offering something almost certain to get you banned - in fact it looked like that was exactly what had happened to them!

 

[SimplyTopUK]

i think communication is your main barrier, although it may be a lot cheaper there are some companies who will jsut really not benefit you a lot. get a few people to check that SEO company out?

 

[fisicx]

Their Actionplan - ....Comments would be appreciated.

Taking each bit in turn:

1) Add Titles, Meta Description and Meta keywords to the all pages.
Meta Description and Keywords not using to determine ranking. If you already have titles then they may need upgrading.
​

2) The website has less back links. We would request relevant websites for link exchange.
Noooooo! Do not do link exchanging - ever.

3) Do search directory submissions. As per the categories the websites are submitted
and this process is also called “One Way Linking”. This process helps in high
website rankings on search engines.
On the list of things to do this is almost at the bottom. The chances of it improving your ranking is minimal if at all.

Do more and more submissions of the website to attain Google Page Rank (PR)
which would further help link exchanging with related websites easier.
This is complete rubbish and shows that they have no idea what PR is.

4) Add Keywords to the images in form of Alt Tags.
Very minor effect.

5) Link Exchange and Directory Submissions would help to attain good Page Rank. (Page Rank is attained by the number of back links to a website).
See above

6) Analyze the market and competitors website and accordingly make a set of ​

keywords as per the KEI and density and further group it as per the webpage

content and add it to the <Meta tags>
Pointless - see above
.
7) Adding Sitemap in two formats – Google sitemap and Resource of Resource (ROR) Sitemap.
No SEO value wahtsoever.
​

8) Validate all HTML pages with W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) Web standards rule.
No SEO value wahtsoever.
​

 

[matt.chatterley]

Another tuppence in though:

4) Add Keywords to the images in form of Alt Tags.

As fisicx says - no real SEO value, however, if your images don't have alt tags, you really should give the original developer a bit of a tap with a kipper (or other suitable fish) - basic accessibility at least, please!

I see no reason why you would pay someone to do the things on that list, either!

Most of this is fairly basic stuff - and a little bit of reading up will arm you to be able to do it pretty well on your own.

 

[Simon-M]

Taking each bit in turn:

​

2) The website has less back links. We would request relevant websites for link exchange.
Noooooo! Do not do link exchanging - ever.

​

Most of your post is good info. The one above is great to tell my competitors. Tell them all. That way, my link building will be so much more powerful. Good quality, on topic, themed link swapping is as poweful as it has always been.

 

[fisicx]

Most of your post is good info. The one above is great to tell my competitors. Tell them all. That way, my link building will be so much more powerful. Good quality, on topic, themed link swapping is as poweful as it has always been.

Really? Then why does Google go to great pains to warn us against link exchanges for the purposes of improving ranking.

 

[rightconsultant]

Suffice to say, you've put the final nail in their coffin.

I was surprised that you thought back links were of no value. I know the search engines are more driven by content now but surely back links and exchanges still have value (as long as they are done ethically).

 

[rightconsultant]

Really? Then why does Google go to great pains to warn us against link exchanges for the purposes of improving ranking.

Isn't that just when people do it for the sake of doing it? I think when it's relevant to the nature of the site, Google still values them.

 

[Simon-M]

Really? Then why does Google go to great pains to warn us against link exchanges for the purposes of improving ranking.

Link building pre-dates google. The internet is built on links. The major ranking factor of any search engine, including google (though they might want you to think different) is good old fashioned, quality, on theme links. Probably always will be. Unless the structure of the actual internet changes that is.

 

[fisicx]

Link building pre-dates google. The internet is built on links. The major ranking factor of any search engine, including google (though they might want you to think different) is good old fashioned, quality, on theme links. Probably always will be. Unless the structure of the actual internet changes that is.

I agree. But Google has changed it's view on links which is why they make it clear that only links that endorse a site (natural links) will be taken into account. So while you may have an inbound link that tells the world your site is the best thing since sliced bread, 20 identical endorsements won't win you many brownie points because they don't look natural.

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2008/10/good-times-with-inbound-links.html

 

[Simon-M]

20 identical endorsements won't win you many brownie points because they don't look natural.

I just rechecked my post and I don't see anywhere that I put "IDENTICAL" links. I don't believe I even hinted at that.

Why have you moved my goal post?

Simon

 

[fisicx]

I just rechecked my post and I don't see anywhere that I put "IDENTICAL" links. I don't believe I even hinted at that.

Why have you moved my goal post?

Simon

Many apologies - need to learn to read.

 

[jack2000]

Currently I am looking at page rank, and link juice spillage, but I suspect it won't really matter, page rank is only one of a myriad of things that google search ranks on, it just so happens that is how they started.

Where page rank matters is when you are in a highly competitive area.