In the final stages of my Start-up R&D and need some volunteers to try out my idea.

[PM Unchained]

I am currently working on my R&D for my start-up and have reached a point where I need some volunteers to try out my idea and I hope you are able to help me with that.

I am in search of 10 volunteers, any volunteers will do. The crucial point here is to incorporate the task into your daily lives for 1 Month.

In a nutshell, my idea is to explore whether individuals can incorporate a daily ad-watching quota into their lives as an alternative to paying interest on loans, and to understand the impact this may have on their daily routines.

As a thank you, there will be a potential £20 reward.

Thanks, looking forward to hearing from you.

 

[NickGrogan]

@NickGrogan - you have to watch the ads and record codes that appear on the screen. You can’t just click to begin and walk away.

same as my wifes games, click on x, click ok, click something otherwise the phone just waits and waits.
Sometimes, multiple clicks per ad.

If it's not in the foreground, ad pauses.

Tried and tested tech

 

[fisicx]

Tried and tested tech

Yes but this one means you need to focus all the time as the code appears randomly but only for a few seconds on each advert. You have to write it down and submit at the end.

At least with in game ads you can do something else while the ad plays. I let them run on the phone while doing stuff on the pc or cooking or whatever.

 

[NickGrogan]

Yes but this one means you need to focus all the time as the code appears randomly but only for a few seconds on each advert. You have to write it down and submit at the end.

At least with in game ads you can do something else while the ad plays. I let them run on the phone while doing stuff on the pc or cooking or whatever.

Where did you see that? I just was the bit about rating the ads, which is fine.

No one is going to write stuff down, and changing apps to write it down will mess up the next ad.

Why wouldn't they do it like everyone else?

 

[fisicx]

Where did you see that? I just was the bit about rating the ads, which is fine.

No one is going to write stuff down, and changing apps to write it down will mess up the next ad.

Why wouldn't they do it like everyone else?

I signed up for the trial to see how it worked. And I totally agree with you about the practicalities of the process.

 

[PM Unchained]

How many ads a day do I have to watch if I borrow £500 over three months?

The No. of Ads a day will be constant. Around 25, which translates to 12.5min a day. However, I am still working on that No. The key factor is the length of the term.

 

[PM Unchained]

ok, so ads for interest? Seems simple enough. You ad platform sounds exactly the same as the one on my wife iPhone games, so the tech exists and works at scale.

So I borrow £500 for 3 months, I watch 4500 adverts and its interest free?

Fine, but boring. I've still got to repay the £500, right.

So how many ads to repay the loan in full?

Principle and interest?

Offer that and you've got something interesting.

The main loan will be repaid as normal, the ad watching will cover the interest, which would be the businesses main stream of revenue. Excluding the data I can sell to Advertises from the likes and dislikes of the users.

 

[PM Unchained]

@NickGrogan - you have to watch the ads and record codes that appear on the screen. You can’t just click to begin and walk away.

The record of the code was just for the trial since I have no other way of tracking if the ads were watched. In the actual product all you do is watch the Ad and Rate it. The rating will trigger the next ad to be played

 

[PM Unchained]

Where did you see that? I just was the bit about rating the ads, which is fine.

No one is going to write stuff down, and changing apps to write it down will mess up the next ad.

Why wouldn't they do it like everyone else?

Correct no one will record codes in their day to day life, without being out off by it. Imagine a YouTube short for ads, and you either like, dislike, etc. The ad and the next ad will play automatically. Ad's can not be skipped and must be rated for the next ad to play. This is a complete viewership guarantee I can give to the Advertiser's which is not something that Any other platforms offers.

 

[fisicx]

So I don't even need to watch the advert! Excellent! All I have to do every 30 seconds is click a button and move on. I could just give each ad a 1 start rating because that's simple.

Even better, I pay someone $10 in India to do it all for me.

 

[PM Unchained]

So I don't even need to watch the advert! Excellent! All I have to do every 30 seconds is click a button and move on. I could just give each ad a 1 start rating because that's simple.

Even better, I pay someone $10 in India to do it all for me.

Haha,fortunately it's not that simple. As mentioned all this activity will be done through an app, which means your personal detail, password management, Bank details and most importantly Loan requests will be carried out on the same platform. If you are trying to figure out ways to cheat the system by getting someone else to do "the time", might as well hand your details over to an Indian scammer.

I already went through every scenario people might try to avoid watching Ad's and they all require a lot more effort that to simply watch a 30's Ad.

The reality of the situation is that people already consume Hours worth of Ads every day for FREE. That's what's Crazy to me. I would rather get paid for my time.

 

[fisicx]

The reality of the situation is that people already consume Hours worth of Ads every day for FREE. That's what's Crazy to me. I would rather get paid for my time.

No, they don't watch ads. The ads may be playing but nobody is watching. There is an ad playing on my phone right now while I'm typing this.

It will be the same on your app. They will click to watch an ad then go put the kettle on. Rate then click to watch the next and put the toast in the toaster. and so on.

If you expect people to sit and actually watch a bunch of adverts you are mistaken. It's not going to happen.

However...

This is a very minor distraction away from your biggest problem which is to get FCA approval and then pay a humongous amount for marketing.

 

[ctrlbrk]

No, they don't watch ads. The ads may be playing but nobody is watching.

Is this not a targeting problem though?

Let's say I have a garden hobby. Let's also say that I'm happy to be profiled and say yes to all cookies, etc.

Wouldn't I be interested in watching ads pertaining to gardening products?

 

[fisicx]

Wouldn't I be interested in watching ads pertaining to gardening products?

But 4500 gardening adverts? Even the most ardent gardener will soon get weary.

It’s also just been pointed out to me that most people have their phones set to silent so won’t even hear the messages being played.

Whilst I applaud the concept in that you get your interest paid by watching ads I’m not sure enough advertisers will be signing up to get their adverts rated.

And of course the returns will be tiny. If you get 0.1p for each view you will be doing well.

 

[ctrlbrk]

But 4500 gardening adverts? Even the most ardent gardener will soon get weary.

Most people have varied interests and the point I'm trying to make is one of accurate targeting.

If targeting works and you're into

1. gardening
2. cooking
3. like X-factor (or whatever is in these days) and
4. want to date someone

then it's reasonable you could watch a mix of ads targeting the above and you could be expected to react to a fraction of them.
But that's how the advertising should work anyway, shouldn't it?

So this is more of a general question as to whether the targeting really works.

@PM Unchained I presume this is factored into your project, and is the targeting accurate?

 

[PM Unchained]

No, they don't watch ads. The ads may be playing but nobody is watching. There is an ad playing on my phone right now while I'm typing this.

It will be the same on your app. They will click to watch an ad then go put the kettle on. Rate then click to watch the next and put the toast in the toaster. and so on.

If you expect people to sit and actually watch a bunch of adverts you are mistaken. It's not going to happen.

However...

This is a very minor distraction away from your biggest problem which is to get FCA approval and then pay a humongous amount for marketing.

Well, that kind of issue is more of a philosophical one if you ask me, everyone has free will. Free will to watch and free will to not watch. I understand that people can get up and do other things, and they will get up and do other things. But do they get up and do other things every single time an ad plays? No. Fully, partially or subconsciously you will be consuming ad's. For example, today, can you say for certain you have not watched or read a single Ad?

I envision this ad watching to take part during our idle states. Everyone goes through it, regardless how busy someone might me. I.e Sitting in a train, most people are on tiktok or play candy crush and be indirectly exposed to Ad's. Not because they enjoy it, but as an annoying byproduct. However, exposed nonetheless, and its clearly generating revenue for the content creators and game designers. Why not for Lenders?

I would say this service might be more attractive to people who are more money savvy and are on constant hunts for better deals.

I agree, FCA will be another mountain to climb over.

 

[PM Unchained]

Most people have varied interests and the point I'm trying to make is one of accurate targeting.

If targeting works and you're into

1. gardening
2. cooking
3. like X-factor (or whatever is in these days) and
4. want to date someone

then it's reasonable you could watch a mix of ads targeting the above and you could be expected to react to a fraction of them.
But that's how the advertising should work anyway, shouldn't it?

So this is more of a general question as to whether the targeting really works.

@PM Unchained I presume this is factored into your project, and is the targeting accurate?

That is a very interesting point you raised, and the answer is yes. One of the USP’s is that the user has the ability to customise the Ad genres they like the most. For example, when signing up the user can select the top 5 ad genres they like to see more of. This can be continuously modified as interests change.

Therefore, encouraging users to actually/more likely watch the complete ad. In addition, this initial piece of information will also be useful for advertisers.

 

[Clint911]

The biggest issue I see will be finding advertisers.

You need customers before anyone will want to advertise on your platform but without advertisers there is no business.

You will need to be giving out thousands in loans all interest free to entice advertisers to come to your platform.

What happens if you don’t have enough businesses wanting to advertise or any in fact?

 

[NickGrogan]

This is a complete viewership guarantee I can give to the Advertiser's which is not something that Any other platforms offers.

This is how they all work, not even close to a USP

One of the USP’s is that the user has the ability to customise the Ad genres they like the most. For example, when signing up the user can select the top 5 ad genres they like to see more of. This can be continuously modified as interests change.

Like every other ad network? like Twitter was for years, like any store app, etc?

Please stop saying things are USPs, when they're not.

The only USP you have/need is interest free loans.

also 25 ads per day ~12 minutes is nowhere near enough for it to work, that's about the same ads as 1 hour of morning TV.

 

[fisicx]

Suppose I select gardening as an ad group. How many different gardening products and services do you think are advertised? Once I’ve rated all the adverts what next? Do you just start showing random products?

The calculation that I’d need to see 4500 adverts to cover the interest suggests you would need 4500 different adverts. I doubt there are that many.

And adverts are usually promoted by agencies not the manufacturer. Have you even spoken to them about your idea? I doubt they will be interested in getting their advert rated.

In any case, your marketing budget will dwarf the income you get from your app. It’s going to cost you thousands.

 

[BigMike747]

What dystopian hell have I stumbled across

 

[PM Unchained]

The biggest issue I see will be finding advertisers.

You need customers before anyone will want to advertise on your platform but without advertisers there is no business.

You will need to be giving out thousands in loans all interest free to entice advertisers to come to your platform.

What happens if you don’t have enough businesses wanting to advertise or any in fact?

Getting customers will not be an issue since it’s a Lending company and everybody will always need loans. The Trickiest part will be to make people aware such a service exists. Once the word is out, people will use this product by initially being enticed by the idea of not paying any interest.

I have already conducted a survey of 300 individual from all socio-economic background and 80% have shown interest in the service.

This stat. in itself will be enough for advertisers to use my platform. Remember, Ad revenue is generated depending on how many views I generate. Therefore, they have nothing to lose. Ad revenues are paid after the No. of views has been submitted. What needs to be agreed on to begin with will be the CPM rate.

 

[PM Unchained]

This is how they all work, not even close to a USP

Like every other ad network? like Twitter was for years, like any store app, etc?

Please stop saying things are USPs, when they're not.

The only USP you have/need is interest free loans.

also 25 ads per day ~12 minutes is nowhere near enough for it to work, that's about the same ads as 1 hour of morning TV.

No platform out there allows you to customise what ads you would like to see. They might use expensive and highly complex algorithm to GUESS what you like but no platform actually asks the users what they prefer to see. And no, Twitter did not have an Ads tab in the settings menu that allows for you to select the Ad genres you would you are interested in.

Currently how advertisements work is by showing you Ad's which have some similarities with the show or channel you are watching and that’s as close as they get to guessing what you like.

You might watch a documentary on Car manufacturing, does that mean you would like to see Ad’s on a steering wheel bedazzling kit? It’s simple a blunderbuss approach with a 50/50 success rate. Therefore, choosing your interests over someone guessing your interests is much more accurate approach, it doesn’t get more accurate than that.

I also have another USP which is quite the golden ticket.

 

[fisicx]

However…

Without FCA approval, a willing lender, advertising agencies signed up and a chunky marketing budget your idea isn’t viable.

Do you even have a MVP to demo?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Getting customers will not be an issue since it’s a Lending company and everybody will always need loans. The Trickiest part will be to make people aware such a service exists. Once the word is out, people will use this product by initially being enticed by the idea of not paying any interest.

Every answer you give makes it more clear that you won't be the person to run this business - irrespective of whether the idea works.

Anyone who knows anything about lending will tell you loud and clear 'it's not about pushing money out of the door, it's about pulling it in'


Step 1 is lending to the right people for the right reason- it's true, you will get lots of enquiries. 95% will be from those who have been declined elsewhere. Some will believe they will repay but will be unable (willing but unable), others will have no intention of paying (unwilling and unable or unwilling but able)


Step 2 - a rock solid, legally compliant collections process.

You have added a Step 3, which is enforcing your gimmick, which i guarantee will be constantly challenged.

Fortunately (though you won't thank them) the FCA and potentially backers will do you a big favour by not letting you go ahead.

 

[PM Unchained]

Suppose I select gardening as an ad group. How many different gardening products and services do you think are advertised? Once I’ve rated all the adverts what next? Do you just start showing random products?

The calculation that I’d need to see 4500 adverts to cover the interest suggests you would need 4500 different adverts. I doubt there are that many.

And adverts are usually promoted by agencies not the manufacturer. Have you even spoken to them about your idea? I doubt they will be interested in getting their advert rated.

In any case, your marketing budget will dwarf the income you get from your app. It’s going to cost you thousands.

If one of your five options is gardening you will see gardening products, and there are many, 15% of the time. Overall, your top 5 choices will be played at around 70% of the time and I will have to fill the other 30% with random Ads. My platform will not just allow the "Big Boys" of the gardening world to advertise, but also Ad agencies of lesser-known brands can use this platform since I provide a more targeted Audience.

Yes, you will end up watching the same Ad's a few times but that’s how they work. Ad's, by design are meant to be shown repeatedly for it to have an impression on your subconscious. The beauty about the rating is that maybe after a few times you get bored, and you simply select boring. Again, that is your choice to make.

Agencies promote and probably also makes the Ad's, and I believe every information about a user is valuable, especially real-time data from which a trend analysis can be constructed.

I maketing needs to be done in a smart way, I agree with you on that point.

 

[PM Unchained]

However…

Without FCA approval, a willing lender, advertising agencies signed up and a chunky marketing budget your idea isn’t viable.

Do you even have a MVP to demo?

I agree, FCA will be my next big challenge and I am learning everyday. And yes, I already have the wireframe and a software developing company in place to get the MVP done. However, I have a few more things to complete before I develop the Source code.

 

[fisicx]

Make sure the MVP works through a webpage. Getting an app built can take months and it’s not cheap.

I’d put all my efforts into getting FCA approval. Without that this project ain’t going nowhere.

 

[Clint911]

Forget about getting loan customers for a minute because they are an expense, look at how your gonna make money..the advertisers..

Do you have any advertisers or any interest from them?

Is there enough interest from them that will cover the interest on loans and make a profit?

No point allowing customers to pick what ads they want to see when you only have 1 advertiser?

I wouldn’t advertise anywhere if I wasn’t guaranteed to have my ad seen by thousands of people…

You might need at least 5000 customers (at a £500 loan each that’s £2.5millon in loans) before an advertiser would even think about signing up to you.

Second point is the recovery of that £2.5million? Do you have a process for collections, missed payments etc?

That’s gonna eat in your profits which wouldn’t be much with little customers.

Lastly you’re gonna need a rock solid contract that forces people to watch the adverts or pay interest. I’m no legal expert but I doubt just having it in your terms and conditions would be enough.

It will need to be clearly written and signed by all parties, I would imagine.

That’s admin…that means staff costs as well

 

[PM Unchained]

Every answer you give makes it more clear that you won't be the person to run this business - irrespective of whether the idea works.

Anyone who knows anything about lending will tell you loud and clear 'it's not about pushing money out of the door, it's about pulling it in'


Step 1 is lending to the right people for the right reason- it's true, you will get lots of enquiries. 95% will be from those who have been declined elsewhere. Some will believe they will repay but will be unable (willing but unable), others will have no intention of paying (unwilling and unable or unwilling but able)


Step 2 - a rock solid, legally compliant collections process.

You have added a Step 3, which is enforcing your gimmick, which i guarantee will be constantly challenged.

Fortunately (though you won't thank them) the FCA and potentially backers will do you a big favour by not letting you go ahead.

The revenue will always be key, and I have come across this question a few times. I have put in place a 4-tier safety net to make sure people don't just cut and run. The actual practice of Lending and repayment is nothing new and is being successfully practices by many Lending companies. I am simply emulating that practice. We will also have a screening program just like any other lender to make sure people can afford and do pay back what they borrowed.

This, fortuantely, is a reality shared by all Lenders, and thereofore there will be solutions to these issues.

At the end of the day, its a learning curve I am happy to climb.

 

[PM Unchained]

Make sure the MVP works through a webpage. Getting an app built can take months and it’s not cheap.

I’d put all my efforts into getting FCA approval. Without that this project ain’t going nowhere.

I agree, As long as I can get the green light from the FCA that will kick start all the other projects I have planned.

 

[Mark T Jones]

The revenue will always be key, and I have come across this question a few times. I have put in place a 4-tier safety net to make sure people don't just cut and run. The actual practice of Lending and repayment is nothing new and is being successfully practices by many Lending companies. I am simply emulating that practice. We will also have a screening program just like any other lender to make sure people can afford and do pay back what they borrowed.

This, fortuantely, is a reality shared by all Lenders, and thereofore there will be solutions to these issues.

At the end of the day, its a learning curve I am happy to climb.

You say a lot whilst saying very little

It's a tough and complex business.

Best of luck....

 

[PM Unchained]

Forget about getting loan customers for a minute because they are an expense, look at how your gonna make money..the advertisers..

Do you have any advertisers or any interest from them?

Is there enough interest from them that will cover the interest on loans and make a profit?

No point allowing customers to pick what ads they want to see when you only have 1 advertiser?

I wouldn’t advertise anywhere if I wasn’t guaranteed to have my ad seen by thousands of people…

You might need at least 5000 customers (at a £500 loan each that’s £2.5millon in loans) before an advertiser would even think about signing up to you.

Second point is the recovery of that £2.5million? Do you have a process for collections, missed payments etc?

That’s gonna eat in your profits which wouldn’t be much with little customers.

Lastly you’re gonna need a rock solid contract that forces people to watch the adverts or pay interest. I’m no legal expert but I doubt just having it in your terms and conditions would be enough.

It will need to be clearly written and signed by all parties, I would imagine.

That’s admin…that means staff costs as well

I have not approached advertisers yet, that task is still in the pipeline, for now I just want to finish this trial and analyse the data.

Ad revenue from someone borrowing 500 over 3 months will be equivalent to and interest rate of 3.5%. Compared to other small loan lenders who charge an interest rate of 51.46%. My business my not make large returns but its a more slow and steady approach I believe users will appreciate.

As you mentioned contract does play a part in it and it clearly states Ad watching quota will need to be met before the end of the repayment term, otherwise interest equivalent to the lost Ad revenue will be charged.

At the end of the day the user base will always be a slow growing process until the platform gains in popularity.

What I can do after advertising the Business Is to create a waiting list for people to sign up to in order to gauge the level of interest. Those number will bring more confidence to advertising agencies.

 

[PM Unchained]

You say a lot whilst saying very little

It's a tough and complex business.

Best of luck....

Spoken like a true politician right?

The journey was never destined to be straightforward, but then again, no business venture truly is. I am committed to giving this my all, and whether it thrives or falters, only time will tell.

I've gained invaluable insights in this forum and will keep an eye of these lessons—like pebbles on the road—as I move forward in establishing the business.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Before I move on

Get yourself a job in collections. Real on the road collections

In my 40 year Lending career, 18 months in collections taught me more than the rest put together

 

[Clint911]

I have not approached advertisers yet, that task is still in the pipeline, for now I just want to finish this trial and analyse the data.

Ad revenue from someone borrowing 500 over 3 months will be equivalent to and interest rate of 3.5%. Compared to other small loan lenders who charge an interest rate of 51.46%. My business my not make large returns but its a more slow and steady approach I believe users will appreciate.

As you mentioned contract does play a part in it and it clearly states Ad watching quota will need to be met before the end of the repayment term, otherwise interest equivalent to the lost Ad revenue will be charged.

At the end of the day the user base will always be a slow growing process until the platform gains in popularity.

What I can do after advertising the Business Is to create a waiting list for people to sign up to in order to gauge the level of interest. Those number will bring more confidence to advertising agencies.

Can I ask have you ever tried to sell advertising? Its hard enough to sell to local businesses but agencies will push for the bottom price, that’s if you can even get talking to them in the first place.

If I was you I would be contacting them NOW and see how they feel about it.

Without advertisers you have no income let alone profit