Ignorant Students
- Thread starter quikshop
- Start date
I agree these protests have got out of hand, but how many of the actual rioters are actually students? My bet is that most of them are just local charvers who know these protests are occuring locally so decide to go jump in on it. I was walking past the demo in Leeds the other week around lunch time, and the actual students were protesting peacefully, it was the non-students/passersbys, who were joining in and acting like animals, trying to inflame it. Luckily they didn't win the muppets.
Regardless though, minus the fighting, I respect the students for standing up for themselves/what they believe. Even if the public are for these tuition fee hikes, the students are not and so they are standing their ground. If only the general public did the same about rip of utitilies companies, taxes, fuel etc!
Regardless though, minus the fighting, I respect the students for standing up for themselves/what they believe. Even if the public are for these tuition fee hikes, the students are not and so they are standing their ground. If only the general public did the same about rip of utitilies companies, taxes, fuel etc!
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We have a strong and highly valued tradition in this Country of peaceful protest, these naive children have abused our democracy. It is now time for the Police to enforce the law... to attack the Royals is outragous
Give me one instance where anything has been changed by peaceful protest?
Who thought it was a good idea for a pair of parasites to parade their privilege in that particular area at such a sensitive time?
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Dawg
Both very good points.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if C&C overruled police and security advice.
"Few bleddy unwashed students stop one going to the Royal Varieteh do? One should say not."
(Unless of course he was offered up as a sacrifice by Dr Cam and Dr Clegg to harden support in Daily Mail land. Nothing like a dead prince to rally the voters. Better than a war really. Didn't work tho'...)
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I don't have a lot of sympathy for the students' cause, but I also think that police tactics during demonstrations are despicable.
People should have the right to make impactful peaceful protests. Take that right away and you leave them with the choice of being toothless or violent.
And, to a certain extent, I respect the students for preferring the latter of those two options.
(I just wish there was some ideology behind it that was more intelligent and more principled than "I want a 'free' education".)
Steve
People should have the right to make impactful peaceful protests. Take that right away and you leave them with the choice of being toothless or violent.
And, to a certain extent, I respect the students for preferring the latter of those two options.
(I just wish there was some ideology behind it that was more intelligent and more principled than "I want a 'free' education".)
Steve
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I
I Love Spreadsheets
We have a strong and highly valued tradition in this Country of peaceful protest, these naive children have abused our democracy. It is now time for the Police to enforce the law... to attack the Royals is outragous
Before I post this I have to say I total back what the students are fighting for but not the recent actions they have been taking and there is no way I back any sort of violence. However...
I have to point out that we also have a long tradition on non-peacful protests and riots in this country dating back to the industrial ages and right up to the current day. Many of the riots during the industrial age resulted in improved working and living conditions. (We have all probably benefited in our everyday lives from this)
In more recent history the Brixton riots have resulted in a more community focused council and community and improved things there.
I dont back any sort of violence but it does appear that riots have a place in society.
Also if the student protests had just been a normal everyday march would the issue still be in the news? would the vote in [FONT="]Parliament[/FONT] have been so close without all the news coverage etc? Dont forget there are over 3000 marches in London every year and you never hear about any of them unless there is trouble of some sort.
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Dawg
Bit of an aside here: do you know why people are charged with 'Violent Disorder' and not 'Riot', (which is far more serious), under the 1976(?) Act?
If the Old Bill charge anyone with Riot it is an admission that they lost control, and they become liable for any damage to property. So they don't do it; rational behaviour I think they call it in the dismal science.
Funny old world huh?
If the Old Bill charge anyone with Riot it is an admission that they lost control, and they become liable for any damage to property. So they don't do it; rational behaviour I think they call it in the dismal science.
Funny old world huh?
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I think everyone is entitled to an opinion, although I disagree with you.
And I don't think the Prince was 'parading' but merely travelling through London, he has a right, as do we all. Like them or not they are royalty and like any other uninvolved (although I wouldn't condone it if they were involved in all this) person, should not have been dragged into it.
This has got my back up so much watching this unfold. The people creating this whole mess is not students wishing to oppose the fee hikes, but people - both students and general public - who wish only to 'have a go' at the 'system', that is all, they have behaved in a way which brings shame on this country, more akin to footballers getting out of hand than the knowlegable, educated people you would expect.
Everyone has a right to protest that is why so many marches happen in London as has been previously said, however to say the tactics used by the police were unacceptable is unfair. All of those other marches that take place that don't get much news coverage but are peaceful, do the police use aggresive tactics then? No, becuase they're not dealing with rioters, they are dealing with peaceful protesters.
I would like to say at this point my little sister is currently in a university and so this does directly affect her, she has only recently started and joined in one of the PEACEFUL demonstrations outside of London.
I cannot support the behaviour though, graffiti on churchills monument? Hanging from the Union Jack? Attacking an uninvolved member of the royal family for no reason? And then what? You want me, a member of the tax paying public to fund your education? Not a chance!!!
I don't suppose anyone listened to the kids on Jeremy Vine on Wednesday?
And I don't think the Prince was 'parading' but merely travelling through London, he has a right, as do we all. Like them or not they are royalty and like any other uninvolved (although I wouldn't condone it if they were involved in all this) person, should not have been dragged into it.
This has got my back up so much watching this unfold. The people creating this whole mess is not students wishing to oppose the fee hikes, but people - both students and general public - who wish only to 'have a go' at the 'system', that is all, they have behaved in a way which brings shame on this country, more akin to footballers getting out of hand than the knowlegable, educated people you would expect.
Everyone has a right to protest that is why so many marches happen in London as has been previously said, however to say the tactics used by the police were unacceptable is unfair. All of those other marches that take place that don't get much news coverage but are peaceful, do the police use aggresive tactics then? No, becuase they're not dealing with rioters, they are dealing with peaceful protesters.
I would like to say at this point my little sister is currently in a university and so this does directly affect her, she has only recently started and joined in one of the PEACEFUL demonstrations outside of London.
I cannot support the behaviour though, graffiti on churchills monument? Hanging from the Union Jack? Attacking an uninvolved member of the royal family for no reason? And then what? You want me, a member of the tax paying public to fund your education? Not a chance!!!
I don't suppose anyone listened to the kids on Jeremy Vine on Wednesday?
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Dawg
It's starting to come out.
The angry young man, so desperate for education that he climbed The Cenotaph using the Union Flag is the son of (multimillionaire) Pink Floyd guitarist Dave Gilmour.
Tell us young Charlie Gilmour: was it a lark mixing with the lower orders and playing revolutionary yesterday? Do you have a gold plated Socialist Workers badge pinned to your cashmere donkey jacket?
Red faces all round chez Gilmour, (one hopes).
The angry young man, so desperate for education that he climbed The Cenotaph using the Union Flag is the son of (multimillionaire) Pink Floyd guitarist Dave Gilmour.
Tell us young Charlie Gilmour: was it a lark mixing with the lower orders and playing revolutionary yesterday? Do you have a gold plated Socialist Workers badge pinned to your cashmere donkey jacket?
Red faces all round chez Gilmour, (one hopes).
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Oh dear charlie what a silly boy.
That said I am largley in favour of the students actions yesterday,the police handled it with a predictable lack of judgment mounted batton charges at a bunch of angry kids wrong!
I think we may be starting to see the first of many angry protests for all kinds of people when it gets a bit warmer we may well have a riot packed summer!
That said I am largley in favour of the students actions yesterday,the police handled it with a predictable lack of judgment mounted batton charges at a bunch of angry kids wrong!
I think we may be starting to see the first of many angry protests for all kinds of people when it gets a bit warmer we may well have a riot packed summer!
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Absolutely, having been on protests (a while ago) and still having friends who do, it is barbaric the way that the peaceful protesters get treated.
It is also well known that bus loads of people who have no interest in what ever protest they attend, go just to cause trouble - the 'rent' a mob fraternity, they are well known, and could be stopped, but I think they are used, by the police and the media - so people think ALL protesters are violent.
Don't know what the answer is respect of trying to get your concerns heard in this Country anymore.
Any Gov who ban protests in the hope that the problem will go away, is incredibly naive - just because we are not allowed to voice our concerns does not mean the anger or the unjust has gone away, it just festers and eventually boils over.
Poppy xx
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Esk247
I have mixed views. I'm not a one for violence and I don't much support those who are doing the damage (not students in the main) BUT they are bitterly angry, everyone is, we all feel let down by the previous and current governments. Promises have been broken, tuition fees are not just rising by a tiddly amount they're rising 3 fold and yes ok this could be slapped on a student loan that isn't classed as a normal loan but the fact remains that this money has to be paid back at somepoint and it's a huge financial burden. Then we see they're actually going to be making education cuts too, so the education system will get even worse and the cost of getting that education will be higher than when it was good.
They'll try to privatise the universities, then you'll see prices rocket even further because no government has ever been able to grasp the concept that private companies have to make bigger profits than competitors and that privatisation does not lower the cost to the end user.
RIOT!
They'll try to privatise the universities, then you'll see prices rocket even further because no government has ever been able to grasp the concept that private companies have to make bigger profits than competitors and that privatisation does not lower the cost to the end user.
RIOT!
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Beachcomber
Well, there was once a fella called Ghandi.....................
:|
The attack on the royals was just a case of idiot mob mentality - they or the institution they represent has nothing to do this the debate at hand - they were attacked purely because of the directionless anger.
Most of the students don't even seem to know the actual facts of the proposed changes to tuition fees anyway - many will be better off, not every university will whack the fees up to the max 9k etc - but yet again we see rage and anger stirred up by media spin.
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Esk247
Not sure if attacking the Royals was such a great idea. Prince Charles has done a lot for students and they attend a lot of charity events to raise money for young people. Don't see MPs doing that?
Lembit Opik deals with young women a lot...not quite the same thing though is it.
Lembit Opik deals with young women a lot...not quite the same thing though is it.
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I think Chris is right with this.
I think the dislocation between the political classes and everyone else has reached a tipping point. The (2nd) Iraq war, the banking crisis, MPs expenses, now its student funding - I think people are becoming increasingly disillusioned with the parliamentary parties and the protests/rioting is a venting of peoples anger - they are effectively impotent at the poll booth as politicians of all shades fail to deliver so they take to the streets for a bit of direct action.
Jeff
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I thought the party in government campaigned on balancing the budget. Isn't that what they are attempting to do? Do we agree with this only when other people are affected and we get to escape the effects?
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I think that the current mob weren't so much elected in, as the last lot were booted out.
Whether we agree with it or not, I do detect that there has been a shift towards a political activism that has been pretty much absent from the UK for the last 20 or so years and I think we may well see more rioting over the 12 months, just as the inner city riots of the early 80s spread from Brixton, to Toxteth, St Pauls etc (can't quite remember where it all began)
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Cannot remember what the rioting in the 80's achieved, accept that Toxteth got a overhaul, and everyone seems to know where it is these days.
We are in a mess really as a Country, rubbish leadership, nothing better waiting in the wings, nothing to offer so many unemployed, this once great Nation is almost on its knees.
Rioting, yes I can understand the frustration of people, but all it achieves is spending money on putting right what got wrecked, and large overtime for the Police.
I think those of us who can remember better times, are going to have to live with those memories, because I cannot see how anything is ever going to change.
Poppy xx
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Dawg
The mechanics of democracy in the UK are another argument. Whether you agree or disagree with government policy it is a legally elected and legitimate government.*
The comparisons to disorder in the 1980s are comparisons to disorder in the last major cutbacks. Nothing new or surprising.
* Unless you are one of those off the chart fruitloops you see every now and again reported in the courts: " I don't acknowledge the legitimacy of this court or the government"(Usually followed by an entreaty to the Purple Space Lizards of Frond).
The comparisons to disorder in the 1980s are comparisons to disorder in the last major cutbacks. Nothing new or surprising.
* Unless you are one of those off the chart fruitloops you see every now and again reported in the courts: " I don't acknowledge the legitimacy of this court or the government"(Usually followed by an entreaty to the Purple Space Lizards of Frond).
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I think I should point out that I am not suggesting we should riot, or that we should support anyone who does riot, but just that I think there may well be more riots/disturbances, like the ones we have just seen, over the next 12 months.
It is just a prediction, not what I want to happen. Without being (too!) flippant, its like me saying I think Chelsea win the league - I think its possible/likely, but not my desire!
It is just a prediction, not what I want to happen. Without being (too!) flippant, its like me saying I think Chelsea win the league - I think its possible/likely, but not my desire!
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So long as you do not want Chelsea, then everthing else is AOK!!
I think the rioting will depend on the weather, if its hot then, yes rioting is possible, if its p*****g down - then NO chance.
Poppy xx
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Let me restate this controversially. When one particular party is voted out of power, its more extreme supporters riot. When the other party is out of power, its more extreme supporters probably complain over a cup of tea. Is it mere coincidence that earlier riots were when the Labour Party last lost power?
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I just get sense that people in this country are a bit angry about a lot of things right now and I think that the chances of a series of riots/disturbances happening is probably higher than it has been for some time. It is just an observation, based on what I read, see and feel is happening around me.
I think it has more to do with anger towards politicians in general than support or opposition of any particular party: I suspect that trust in and respect for our politicians (of all shades) is at an all time low.
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Well, there was once a fella called Ghandi.....................
:|
The attack on the royals was just a case of idiot mob mentality - they or the institution they represent has nothing to do this the debate at hand - they were attacked purely because of the directionless anger.
Most of the students don't even seem to know the actual facts of the proposed changes to tuition fees anyway - many will be better off, not every university will whack the fees up to the max 9k etc - but yet again we see rage and anger stirred up by media spin.
You mean the same Ghandi that was behind the Chauri chara riots that saw the massacre of 22 policemen and god knows how many rioters
You say Royals, I say parasitic anachronism. When people are rioting over money I would have thought it was the actions of an idiot to parade ostentatious wealth and privilege in front of them. It's a red rag to a bull.
There were armed police in the escort, if one of them had lost his cool and somebody had died then the stuff would have really hit the fan. For what?
Would it really have caused the parasites any great inconvenience to have taken a different route?
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The job losses in the public sector, will go some way to stoking the fires.
If we really wanted to hammer home our dislike we had the chance when our MP's had their sticky little fingers in the till, but being like we are, we grumbled a bit, and then forgot about it (I think that was the all time low, in respect of our MP's)!
Rioting is nothing this Country has not seen before, and will see countless times again.
A few people will become the owners of some expensive items, they could never afford to buy, and all of our insurance will go up, to cover the cost of the riots and the looting, and we will still be where we are now, up the creek without a paddle with crap leaders!
Poppy xx
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Beachcomber
You mean the same Ghandi that was behind the Chauri chara riots that saw the massacre of 22 policemen and god knows how many rioters
Wow - I'd bin that history book of yours - was it published by the Daily Mail by any chance?? Or was it a random google hit?
You say Royals, I say parasitic anachronism. When people are rioting over money I would have thought it was the actions of an idiot to parade ostentatious wealth and privilege in front of them.[/quote]
So you think anyone with any obvious sign of wealth should hide in the basement and never been seen in public? Seriously, take a reality check - what should we do - impose a law banning anyone who possesses over a certain amount of money (earned or otherwise) from walking the streets, or maybe forcing porsche owners to hide their cars underground??
The truth is that many of these 'protesters' are unaware of the facts of the matter, are ignortant of the way these new proposals will affect them and are caught up in the mob mentality and media hype of the moment - and are liable to turn on anyone and anything which could be perceived as a target.
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Wow - I'd bin that history book of yours - was it published by the Daily Mail by any chance?? Or was it a random google hit?
No it was basic stuff learned as part of a well rounded education. The sort of stuff that anybody taking part in a debate about political history ought to know. It was one of many incidents where people died in riots which were part of the "civil disobedience" protest led by Ghandi; I mentioned that one because it's pretty well common knowledge to anybody with even a passing interest in Ghandi.
I didn't say that and you know full well I didn't mean that, it's like I used to tell the kids; tease the dog and you've only yourself to blame if you get bitten.
I don't believe that for a moment. The facts are that the recent changes will have serious financial implications for 95% of students. For god's sake man up; the whole point of the changes was to make students contribute more for their education. The government may have put in place a mechanism to make repayment as painless as possible; but the fact remains they will be paying substantially more for their education than they were before the changes.
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Leyla
Hi All
You mean the same Ghandi that was behind the Chauri chara riots that saw the massacre of 22 policemen and god knows how many rioters
'Appalled at the carnage, Gandhi went on a five-day fast as penance for what he perceived as his culpability in the bloodshed. In reflection, Gandhi felt that he had acted too hastily in encouraging people to revolt against the British Raj without sufficiently emphasizing the importance of ahimsa (non-violence) and without adequately training the people to exercise restraint in the face of attack. He decided that the Indian people were ill-prepared and not yet ready to do what was needed to achieve independence. As a direct result of Chauri Chaura he and the Indian National Congress called for an end to the Non-cooperation movement...'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauri_Chaura
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