if item is lost in the post 2 nd signed for what is legal responsibility for the seller? I

[sari walker]

Customer is saying that she has not signed for it but Royal Mail investigated and saying that they delivered . What do I do now ?
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I have posted an item to customer 2nd classes signed for ( have tracking number ), I received an email saying that it was not received . I checked the tracking and it was signed for / received . She is still saying that she was not at home and not received . I raised it with Royal Mail and they confirmed that they delivered .i fwd the response to her but getting the same answer that she has not received it . And it is not her not her signature on the received tracking slip. What do I do now ? New customer and I don’t believe her and paid by PayPal on my webpage . Any advice welcome please ? Tx

 

[fisicx]

Some people are like this. Nothing you can do about it. If she lies now she will lie again. Offer a full refund and don't send her any more products.

 

[pelparc]

As the payment is via PayPal and you have delivery conformation, it might be worth checking if the sale is "eligible" for PayPal seller protection, look at your PayPal conformation email it normally tells you if it is eligible or not. If you are protected you can ask her to raise a problem with PayPal who will then probably automatically refund her, however i think PayPal will then reimburse your account. This has happened to me not for a "lost parcel" but for a "i did not make this purchase" claim. Will be very interested to know how you get on if it is an eligible sale.

 

[Mr D]

Customer is saying that she has not signed for it but Royal Mail investigated and saying that they delivered . What do I do now ?
—-
I have posted an item to customer 2nd classes signed for ( have tracking number ), I received an email saying that it was not received . I checked the tracking and it was signed for / received . She is still saying that she was not at home and not received . I raised it with Royal Mail and they confirmed that they delivered .i fwd the response to her but getting the same answer that she has not received it . And it is not her not her signature on the received tracking slip. What do I do now ? New customer and I don’t believe her and paid by PayPal on my webpage . Any advice welcome please ? Tx

Was it signed for by customer?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Had this before and turned out son or daughter took it in and forgot to tell mum where it was

 

[Mr D]

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

Delivery rights
The retailer is responsible for goods until they are in your physical possession, or in the possession of someone appointed by you to accept them.

This means that retailers are liable for the service provided by the couriers they employ - the delivery firm is not liable.

The retailer is responsible for the goods until they are delivered to you and in your possession.

 

[sari walker]

Was it signed for by customer?

It was signed when I checked the tracking Royal Mail page @ she s saying that she was not at home and it is not her signature . I raised it with Royal Mail and I received an email from RM today that they investagetd and it was delivered

 

[sari walker]

As the payment is via PayPal and you have delivery conformation, it might be worth checking if the sale is "eligible" for PayPal seller protection, look at your PayPal conformation email it normally tells you if it is eligible or not. If you are protected you can ask her to raise a problem with PayPal who will then probably automatically refund her, however i think PayPal will then reimburse your account. This has happened to me not for a "lost parcel" but for a "i did not make this purchase" claim. Will be very interested to know how you get on if it is an eligible sale.

Tx where can I find if it is protected . Can’t see anything when logged into PayPal tx

 

[Mr D]

Binary problem.

She has had the item and is trying it on.
She has not had the item.

If she goes to her bank regarding this they will decide whether their customer gets her money back. You would see it as a chargeback.
Whats the odds the bank accepts her story?

 

[pelparc]

Tx where can I find if it is protected . Can’t see anything when logged into PayPal tx

Normally its stated on the email PayPal send you saying you have received a payment or if you login to your PayPal account open up the transaction in question it gives the seller protection details under the payment value opposite the deliver to address (2nd section down on the right).

Delivery rights
The retailer is responsible for goods until they are in your physical possession, or in the possession of someone appointed by you to accept them.

This means that retailers are liable for the service provided by the couriers they employ - the delivery firm is not liable.

The retailer is responsible for the goods until they are delivered to you and in your possession.

This is correct however as you used PayPal they normally give you seller protection which means they will give you your money back although it can take a couple of weeks.

 

[finleydesign]

Sadly consumer will always win, so although designed to protect consumers from scam websites, it does mean that others out there can play the system

Also bare in mind, it could be true, maybe the postman nabbed it, and scribbled a signature, you never know, however the issue with online is you as a retailer have no grounds, chances are they will chargeback

As others have said check sellers protection, however I am not confident that really does what it says on the tin!

 

[Mr D]

Sadly consumer will always win, so although designed to protect consumers from scam websites, it does mean that others out there can play the system

Also bare in mind, it could be true, maybe the postman nabbed it, and scribbled a signature, you never know, however the issue with online is you as a retailer have no grounds, chances are they will chargeback

As others have said check sellers protection, however I am not confident that really does what it says on the tin!

Strangely while being annoyingly in favour of the buyer almost all the time for everything else the best company for seller protection on chargebacks I've found is amazon.
Even when decision goes in favour of the buyer, amazon pay.

 

[finleydesign]

Strangely while being annoyingly in favour of the buyer almost all the time for everything else the best company for seller protection on chargebacks I've found is amazon.
Even when decision goes in favour of the buyer, amazon pay.

That's quite surprising when you consider the delivery method they adopt, as in as long as it's in the general mile radius they will deem it delivered!

Many years back we had a delivery charged back, this was early days of ecommerce, when I spoke with someone high up at the bank they said, you could have a photo of the drive shaking hands while handing over the parcel, but if the customer declares they didn't get it, you'll never win

The other issue here is, they advise to contact the police, but what will they do, it could be genuine, could be scam, but value wise, they aren't going to do anything, so retailer loses out, but it's part and parcel of running an ecommerce business i'm afraid

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

We had a situation once when a stolen card was used to place an order for AM delivery to the cardholders address. The delivery man approached the gate and the 'buyer' appeared from the rear access pathway between the two terraced houses to accept delivery wearing gardening gloves. The driver assumed he was the house owner who'd been out the back mowing the lawn as most of us would. They done this half a dozen times while the card owner who was on nights slept like a baby!

 

[White Collar Legal]

Royal Mail also take the surname of the person that signed for it. Does it match? There is evidence that it has been delivered and signed for so I say that there is nothing further for you to do.

 

[finleydesign]

Our best one was, the driver actually wrote the note on the delivery doc "handed to man in a van outside"

When questioned further, the driver described a van pulled up behind him, and driver called out saying I live here, so driver handed package over! it was a £1K item!!! we ended up in court to get the money off the courier firm

 

[Dimo]

This non-delivery scam has been running quite a while. I have sent relatively inexpensive artwork to customers even by Signed For only to hear days later that it wasn't received. But in one case an irate customer had moved and not updated their address on PayPal, so the four beautifully framed pictures went to the new house owner who denied all knowledge when she called round for them .

Last month I sent a classic art poster rolled up in a cardboard tube, taped at each end. The customer said the tube was empty on arrival so I refunded in full and made a claim with RM. To my surprise I got the value of the item back + postage.

I don't know what the answer is to standard 'proof of posting' mail. On one of my Ebay accounts I periodically get claims of non-arrival. It's becoming pretty commonplace according to the forum boards.

 

[IanDade]

I read somewhere that you could send a form to the customer asking them to sign it to confirm non delivery as Royal Mail were saying the parcel was delivered and you need the customer to confirm that it was not received in order to claim.

In reality if someone has to sign a form to say that they have not received it and that an "investigation" will happen, if they are scamming they may back down.

Not tried it, not recommending thsi action but read about it somewhere

 

[Mr D]

Of course suggesting things like that when google will turn up the idea if a scammer receives such a letter does reduce the effectiveness.

 

[pelparc]

I know that PayPal & eBay block addresses if they get too many "lost in post" claims, and part of the SagePay 3rd man fraud checker looks at how many refunds and lost parcels there are to an address, although i cant make head nor tail of how the 3rd Man system gets its result.
Unfortunately the Banks will just automatically refund the customer leaving you with the option of taking them to court (which probably never happens) or making a claim from the like of PayPal or Royal Mail (which you cant do if you are a business user).
Amazing how crime can go so easily unpunished.

Luckily the OP sent the parcel using a signed for method and it was paid via PayPal so as long as it was an eligible transaction they should be refunded by PayPal under the seller protection scheme.

 

[Mr D]

If you are convinced the buyer has had the item you can start court proceedings. Letter before action then court action.
The ones who have had it can suddenly find it.