How to Hire Commission only sale people

[Pringleart]

Hi,
I have a new product to luanch into the high value corporate gifts market and need to hire a sales team across the country to help the push... and this time of year being the prime time I need to do it fast.
Considering earnings are around £1,000 per sale i figured posting adds on freelancer job boards and a few others would be a walk in the park but I'm shocked a so little in responses...

Can anyone help with this... I know the argument over salary/commission splits but there's no budget for salary and I beleive really good sales people will work for commission only as they don't need the basic...

Though the product (bespoke Limited Edition Prints and Personalised Commissions) is niche the market is established and corporates are still spending money on these marketing items so I think this should be a great opportunity for a seasoned sales person...

Any advise greatly appreciated...

 

[Mike tells it like it is]

I would consider commission only sales on a self employed basis.

I would not use a script that you gave me though I would just sell.

What is the product?

There is also a site called agent base but obviously they will want a fee.

 

[Pringleart]

Hi,
Sorry, I forgot to say.. I would be employing self employed field sales/business development agents without a doubt.

The product is personalised Limited edition Prints (artwork) either from existing gallery or the client can commission a piece that specific to their business. They get a framed print with bespoke plaque embedded in the matting stating that its a limited edition (say 100) from XYZ cmpany.

Thanks

 

[telemax]

Hi,
Sorry, I forgot to say.. I would be employing self employed field sales/business development agents without a doubt.

The product is personalised Limited edition Prints (artwork) either from existing gallery or the client can commission a piece that specific to their business. They get a framed print with bespoke plaque embedded in the matting stating that its a limited edition (say 100) from XYZ cmpany.

Thanks

Hi,

There are company's that spend millions on sales people, company cars and trade shows in order to launch a product and still find it difficult to succeed. Why do people think they can achieve the same results for free?

Also for something you want up and running by Christmas you've left it terribly late.

 

[incensed]

I have just learned a lot about this- comms only sales people.

I have only one thing to say: if you really believe in your product you MUST shoulder the risk and should not expect self-employed sales people to go out and drive around for you.

if you are not willing to invest in hiring good sales people it shows about your trust in your product. Trust me salesmen of all people can sniff it from miles.

 

[Shay]

Really good sales people still have bills to pay therefore asking them to shoulder all the belief in a product thats not even there's is a bit rich. Sure it could come good but as the owner you effectively get sales for sweet FA outlay.

Maybe its that belief that has led you to receive very few people interested in your proposal.

Have to agree that your timing for this project regardless of its payment schedule is probably at least 3 months late as it is. Better luck for next year perhaps.

 

[hem_marketing]

Hi, I am looking for this type of role at the minute, while I build up my own business which is appointment setting and lead generation. I have good contacts with a few high street names and businesses.

Do you want to PM me and we can have a chat?

Cheers
Lee

 

[gregs2769]

Hi,

There are company's that spend millions on sales people, company cars and trade shows in order to launch a product and still find it difficult to succeed. Why do people think they can achieve the same results for free?

Also for something you want up and running by Christmas you've left it terribly late.

There are 1000's of company's out there that work on the direct sales model using self employed agents in order to take there product to market. And they make a fortune, and because the commission's are above market rate some people can earn a load of cash.

Granted this approach is a numbers game and will have a very high churn of agents, but if you stick at it you find some great people.

 

[captaincloser]

There are 1000's of company's out there that work on the direct sales model using self employed agents in order to take there product to market. And they make a fortune, and because the commission's are above market rate some people can earn a load of cash.

There are not 1000's of companies doing this...there are however a good many MLM companies doing this and thats not the same thing...MLM generally being a mugs game for all but the instigators.
commissions above market rates ? How it really works....from one who knows.

Commission only can work and for me does work but it is not generally accepted as the normal way of running a business and in my considerable experience is a clear indicator of an underfunded company with no business plan or sales strategy.

Also there are many like this op who slap on a big amount to their niche products in expectation of covering their sales costs. So a £5k ticket item becomes advertised as a £7.5k ticket item with £2.5k comm....when, in fact, there is usually some question as to the real value even at £5k. Happens all day, every day, in every town in the UK. Hardly a proposition for a young salesperson to consider as a career ?

I get my comm only work by turning a salaried offer into comm only when I think I know the outcome. Takes experience to work like this and not for everyone.

Anyone considering comm only should only ever work for someone doing exactly the same as them on the same basis. ...which will rule out 99% of these 'deals'.

 

[gregs2769]

There are not 1000's of companies doing this...there are however a good many MLM companies doing this and thats not the same thing...MLM generally being a mugs game for all but the instigators.
commissions above market rates ? How it really works....from one who knows.

Commission only can work and for me does work but it is not generally accepted as the normal way of running a business and in my considerable experience is a clear indicator of an underfunded company with no business plan or sales strategy.

Also there are many like this op who slap on a big amount to their niche products in expectation of covering their sales costs. So a £5k ticket item becomes advertised as a £7.5k ticket item with £2.5k comm....when, in fact, there is usually some question as to the real value even at £5k. Happens all day, every day, in every town in the UK. Hardly a proposition for a young salesperson to consider as a career ?

I get my comm only work by turning a salaried offer into comm only when I think I know the outcome. Takes experience to work like this and not for everyone.

Anyone considering comm only should only ever work for someone doing exactly the same as them on the same basis. ...which will rule out 99% of these 'deals'.

I do know what im talking about captaincloser, I my self worked for a few years on commission only for a couple companies until I saw a niche in the market to help these companies find good quality self-employed agents. Which is what I do now.

And as for the numbers of companies doing this, they really do add up into the 1000's not including the MLM's

 

[Montaigne]

Anyone considering comm only should only ever work for someone doing exactly the same as them on the same basis. ...which will rule out 99% of these 'deals'.

Not entirely true. I make a good living providing sales to tradespeople, some of whom are totally hopeless at sales but it's a symbiotic relationship i.e. I have no desire to be an electrician and travel all over the country working in all different types of environment and the thought of sitting in an office all day on the phone fills the electricians with dread; it's their nightmare scenario. Therefore both parties concentrate on what they're good at and both profit.

Captaincloser, I agree with you that a lot of these commission only requests are people without funding looking for free sales without any of the risk but this doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't still an opportunity there for proft for both parties.

 

[captaincloser]

I do know what im talking about captaincloser, I my self worked for a few years on commission only for a couple companies until I saw a niche in the market to help these companies find good quality self-employed agents. Which is what I do now.

And as for the numbers of companies doing this, they really do add up into the 1000's not including the MLM's

Agents and employed or self employed salesmen ? The lines are blurred but I do agree with self determiningg agents as much as I disagree with nasty comm only employers taking advantage of people desperate for work.The confusion is probably mine as the lines never used to be so blurred.. So many ads for salespeole now advertised as comm only that would have been different even a few years ago...My point is strongly against unscrupulous employers or users of others at no cost to themselves. It is rife.... Sales agency is of course a traditional form of doing business ...now hijacked by the cowboys. Thats my point.

 

[christian_d]

I beleive really good sales people will work for commission only as they don't need the basic...

Any advise greatly appreciated...

really good sales people working for nothing..... A big pink pig has just flew right past my window...

You are looking for a needle in 500 haystacks, enjoy the search -it will take you a while!

 

[Montaigne]

really good sales people working for nothing..... A big pink pig has just flew right past my window...

You are looking for a needle in 500 haystacks, enjoy the search -it will take you a while!

Commission only isn't working for nothing. Also good sales people working on commission only are doing so because there's actually more money in it than working for a salary, even if commission is also included with that salary.

 

[captaincloser]

really good sales people working for nothing..... A big pink pig has just flew right past my window...

You are looking for a needle in 500 haystacks, enjoy the search -it will take you a while!

Really good commission salespeople earn a fortune..the pigs flying bit is the daft 'employers' (though they are not employers of course) who think we are mugs and post literally hundreds of comm only jobs hoping for some poor mug to sell their trash comm only.

Good comm only sales people know how it works and no need to explain here.

 

[Dknull]

I worked in the US during my early 20's as a commission only sales person in conditions that I think the average Brit would find barbaric, but I made a ton of cash and I loved it. It's a mystery why so many sales people I meet in England look down on commission only roles. Sales people with the confidence ability to do commission only are the only type I would employ, regardless of what the remuneration structure is.

 

[Montaigne]

Sales people with the confidence ability to do commission only are the only type I would employ, regardless of what the remuneration structure is.

One would assume, however, that with you being a salesperson yourself, you would be creating a commission only position that could actually make money. A lot of the commission only offers I see on here are more a case of people wanting to pay peanuts for an unproven product and shift all the risk onto the sales person.

 

[S-Marketing]

Do any of you commission only guys think that finding leads for a new company who supply and fit hand rails and other products to help businesses meet their requirements under the disabled access legislation would be worth a punt?

 

[firstmarket]

Do any of you commission only guys think that finding leads for a new company who supply and fit hand rails and other products to help businesses meet their requirements under the disabled access legislation would be worth a punt?

I can't imagine their is enough money in this for it to be worthwhile for a commission only sales person. The market along with the income generated per sale would be a little small in my opinion.

 

[S-Marketing]

I can't imagine their is enough money in this for it to be worthwhile for a commission only sales person. The market along with the income generated per sale would be a little small in my opinion.

Thanks for your opinion.

The reason I ask is that I'm currently setting up the marketing for such a business and wonder whether commission only sales may be a viable option to get the turnover flowing.

As I can guarantee that the marketing, and therefore the offer to customers, will be exceptional, I could see it being quite an easy sell to anyone with contacts. I know there is a comm only sales guy on here who sells PAT testing, so thought this may be sold along similar lines.

I see your point, and it may be that this isn't the kind of product that is suitable to offer on a comm only basis.

Any input from anyone else would be much appreciated though.

 

[Zahra]

Hi All, I am new here so be gentle. I have a great opportunity available to me... I have a client who offered me a small retainer and a bonus for the management of a lead generation programme. At first I offered a good wage per hour / month and got badly burned. I then started to vary my approach in that some of the staff were on a low basic blus bonus for meeting targets and commission only. Surpringly the 3 commission only agents are making the most money and generating the most appointments. The other 3 are not as reliable as I had hoped (despita excellent Cv's. references and loads of experience). I did everything that I could to reassure the staff including weekly and even daily payments in some cases.

Now this is my dilemna... The client has offered me first refusal and various options in managing the sales force. They have recently had additional funding and equally need to increase turnover. My problem now lies with the fact that if I take this on I cannot disappoint the client and equally I cannot afford the cost of staff who wont pull their own weight. The client wants results as do I. There is money to be made but it seems to me that commission only is the only option that I have. Its not that the client or myself want someone else to "believe in the product" but equally we did commission only for a good period of time to be able to have a feasible business which we now have. So any ideas, suggestions or comments would be welcome!

 

[captaincloser]

Hi All, I am new here so be gentle. I then started to vary my approach in that some of the staff were on a low basic blus bonus for meeting targets and commission only. Surpringly the 3 commission only agents are making the most money and generating the most appointments. The other 3 are not as reliable as I had hoped (despita excellent Cv's. references and loads of experience). I did everything that I could to reassure the staff including weekly and even daily payments in some cases.

You are in sales...dont expect anyone on this site to be remotely gentle...they are all apparently in business but only a couple of us would appear to be in sales...the rest exist in a more rarified state floating gently on a cloud of helium above us pigs in the trough...you'll get used to it if you hang around.

You are spot on with comm only scenario in this case, and it is no surprise they are the best you have. Wage earning sales people invariably work down to the basic they are paid..speaking from experience but ready to be challenged on this.

Use your existing team as the example for recruiting more of the same. If you can show that you have people earning good money comm only others will follow and deadbeats will not be interested.

As for trusting ANYONE in sales who produces a CV then dream on. Never, ever, trust a CV for a sales position.

 

[Zahra]

TBH I am not a sales person... yes I have made some sales and I can tell you how its going wrong and perhaps even why but I would say I am more Strategy or Operations. So are you saying I should promote telemarketers on commission onto field sales? It could potentially work aside from the fact that I will then lose the lead generators. How do I launch both... increase lead generators and find good staff... and in terms of good staff, clearly I can't use a low basic (work down) High basic (Not falling for that again) or commission only (??) It seems that leaves only one option and if so where do I find more of them and how do I keep them happy?

 

[captaincloser]

TBH I am not a sales person... yes I have made some sales and I can tell you how its going wrong and perhaps even why but I would say I am more Strategy or Operations. So are you saying I should promote telemarketers on commission onto field sales? It could potentially work aside from the fact that I will then lose the lead generators. How do I launch both... increase lead generators and find good staff... and in terms of good staff, clearly I can't use a low basic (work down) High basic (Not falling for that again) or commission only (??) It seems that leaves only one option and if so where do I find more of them and how do I keep them happy?

Yes you are a salesperson Everyone on this UKBF forum is selling something, few are able to admit it and most are stomach turningly bad at it...so give yourself a slap on the back.At least you are not dressing up a pitch for business as advice on here.
Ask your current earners to bring you people like them (can work and has worked for me). Also give the good ones the opportunity of field sales-they may be comfortable as they are as not everyone converts a strong phone presence to field sales.

You should be able to advertise and get lead generators based simply on the good guys that are still there as a reference. Dont waste time on CV's -give people a trial and after a couple of days you'll know who can make it is my guess.

Keeping sales people is mostly about money but also about massaging egos as in any walk of life. Salespeople are often looked on as the dregs in an office team...thats about as big a mistake a manager can make. Make your team feel like Gods and just keep being nice and friendly..it's a tough job and most people simply cannot hack it which is why sales people are usually well paid for success.

 

[maxine]

Zahra if any of us had the answers to your situation then we would all be extremely rich! Sorry, there's no quick solutions or magic tricks

There is no shortage of clients who want someone else to manage it all and offload their risk onto. (I've been "offered" at least 6 similar deals today alone). The rewards can seem great but there needs to be a financial buffer to cope with the problem you have described between pay and performance.

Recruiting successful and reliable telemarketers/lead generators is a skill in itself and one that I have found very difficult.

The situation I am in now with some clients is that the arrangement they have with me/my company is comm only however I choose to pay my staff a low basic salary with high bonus payments. I also strip out all non telephone activities too and provide as much support with everything else. Their performance has very detailed measures around the things that are important and this also forms the basis of poor performance procedures that are all openly communicated.

I have learned that just because I taken on a comm only project it doesn't mean I should transfer that arrangement to staff as is from the outset. Also, it's generally less profitable which defeats the point of negotiating comm only in the first place.

As for moving your lead generators into field sales you may be lucky but this could also have disaster written all over it where they don't perform in FS but you have lost your lead generators too. Double whammy.

Good luck

 

[telemax]

.

Recruiting successful and reliable telemarketers/lead generators is a skill in itself and one that I have found very difficult.

They are out there, but you are always looking for a needle in a haystack. From my experience, managing a telesales team was pretty much constant interviewing and recruitment.

 

[Montaigne]

Do any of you commission only guys think that finding leads for a new company who supply and fit hand rails and other products to help businesses meet their requirements under the disabled access legislation would be worth a punt?

Hi Stretchy,

Sorry, I've been away for 10 days otherwise I would have responded to this sooner.

A previous respondent in this thread mentioned that there wouldn't be any money in essentially selling handrail installation but I think that this is because they're focusing on the value of the items, which are not particularly expensive.

On the other hand, if you priced this based on a day rate and then approached larger firms rather than smaller firms then it could be worthwhile.

For example, commission only, selling installation to small businesses such as newsagents wouldn't generate any income for the sales rep' as you would no doubt only be able to charge £100-£200 per installation? Having to make a minimum of 5-10 sales a day at 10% commission would mean having to work very hard for very little gain.

On the other hand, if you targeted larger firms with multiple sites and charged a £300-£400 day rate with the agreement that engineers would fit a minimum of 3 sites a day then it would be worthwhile. Imagine landing one contract for W H Smiths for example, for their entire estate?

 

[firstmarket]

Hi Stretchy,

Sorry, I've been away for 10 days otherwise I would have responded to this sooner.

A previous respondent in this thread mentioned that there wouldn't be any money in essentially selling handrail installation but I think that this is because they're focusing on the value of the items, which are not particularly expensive.

On the other hand, if you priced this based on a day rate and then approached larger firms rather than smaller firms then it could be worthwhile.

For example, commission only, selling installation to small businesses such as newsagents wouldn't generate any income for the sales rep' as you would no doubt only be able to charge £100-£200 per installation? Having to make a minimum of 5-10 sales a day at 10% commission would mean having to work very hard for very little gain.

On the other hand, if you targeted larger firms with multiple sites and charged a £300-£400 day rate with the agreement that engineers would fit a minimum of 3 sites a day then it would be worthwhile. Imagine landing one contract for W H Smiths for example, for their entire estate?

Paying a day rate is considerably different to paying someone on commission and not really feasible for this product. In order to get a foot in the door you at blue chips you need to continually be chipping away trying to contact the correct person over the period of a few months.

If the OP is looking at blue chip companies it would make sense to either find an individual that sells associated services into these companies already and/or link up with H&S or FM providers.

This is a product that can be added onto a portfolio and is not something that would generate a meaningful income for somebody concentrating on it full time basis

 

[Montaigne]

You don't necessarily need to look at blue chip firms, I just used a large firm as an example.

Take care homes for example. There are individual care homes, businesses that control 5, 10, 15 sites etc. On a day rate they would be worthwhile approaching.

Starting from scratch I don't think it would be worthwhile just selling for this one firm but Stretchy asked about anyone with already established contacts who may be interested. This is a possibility for me for example and it would also be of interest in terms of cross selling from a related business.

 

[Montaigne]

Paying a day rate is considerably different to paying someone on commission and not really feasible for this product.

Sorry, I didn't mean paying the sales rep' a day rate. I meant the installation engineers charging a day rate for which the sales rep' would be paid a commission. I don't think it would be worthwhile from a leads only basis.

 

[S-Marketing]

Montaigne.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll give a little bit more info as there seems to be some debate as to whether its feasible or not.

As I think you know, I specialise in marketing trade and service type businesses and also have several business interests in these areas. The chap who bought one of my businesses has been doing a lot of domestic installation of handrails and we decided to join forces and try to break into the commercial market. I have done ' what I do' and developed a better, faster and possibly cheaper way of fitting such rails. This gives us an excellent advantage and point of differentiation from the competition.

At this point in time the business will have 2 bases, one in Southampton and one in Salisbury. I am however hoping to scale up the business quite quickly.

The average cost of a simple domestic installation is about £ 300, with the cost of an average commercial installation being estimated as between £ 600 for a small single site, and many thousands for larger works.

I am not familiar with telesales as it is not a sales format I really use often, for either my own businesses or for clients. After reading some of your posts and having a few conversations with you, I thought your opinion on the matter may be of value, as I am tempted to give telesales a go for this project.

 

[Montaigne]

Are materials included within the cost and if so how much does it remove from the overall cost with regards a day's work for one installer?

If I was to solely work for you, for example, selling this service, at a 10% commission rate then I would have to make a 1000 man days worth of sales to earn 30k. There's two ways of looking at whether this is worthwhile or not. It's either:

• 1000 individual sales so 4 sales a day without fail for a year
• Selling to larger firms

I wouldn't do this as commission only just for this product/service unless I was being paid a basic.

I would add this to the list of services I could offer for opportunistic rather than targeted selling, however, so it would depend on what commission rates you would pay to the sales rep'.

Like with any commission only sales gig it would require x amount of time to build up a pipeline if you were doing it from scratch but as you say Stretchy this would benefit somebody with contacts already in the same environment.

I can think of a couple of businesses that may be interested and I know a PAT testing engineer who is currently working for a national Nursing Home company. He may have a way in to the firm/drop a subtle hint to his boss lol.

 

[S-Marketing]

Yes I see your point completely. This will only work 'comm only' if we are selling into larger companies for large contracts.

The numbers simply won't work for smaller jobs.

Being completely honest,we would struggle to have the capacity to even complete £ 1000 worth of work each day at present, so the idea would also fall down there too.

As I mentioned, at the moment the business does ok selling domestic installations, especially with the cold slippery weather coming. The plan really is to break in to the commercial market in the areas already mentioned, then expand out across the south.

It suits me at present to stick to local areas as one of my other businesses can provide vans and tooling for the new project. Once we move away from the local area this will no longer be possible.

My long term plan is to find contacts with NHS trusts and other health based organisations so we can tender for work there. On a recent hospital visit I saw at least 100,000 worth of work that should be done.

 

[Montaigne]

Being completely honest,we would struggle to have the capacity to even complete £1000 worth of work each day at present, so the idea would also fall down there too.

Well, that's still a turnover, when working at full capacity, of more than a quarter of a million pounds a year. Whilst it is not huge neither is it insignificant.

From that figure you would have 2-3 full time installation engineers?

There's no reason why you couldn't approach larger clients with only that capacity. Larger jobs simply keep your present workforce occupied and give you the opportunity to expand. 3 engineers in full employment for example enables the employing of a further 3 with minimal risk (as you would have been employing 3 previously whilst trying to source work for them).

Can you pm me the hospital you attended? I am working with two PAT testing firms who each have a contract for a PCT so if by chance this hospital is within one of those it may be a point of entry.

I have also forwarded this thread to another UKBF member as he runs a firm that specialises in decontamination services for the NHS; there should be some cross selling opportunities there for both parties.

Could you also PM me some more detailed information with regards the disabled access legislation and how it ties in with the business you're discussing?

 

[IC Solutions 24/7 Limited]

I have also forwarded this thread to another UKBF member as he runs a firm that specialises in decontamination services for the NHS; there should be some cross selling opportunities there for both parties.

Hi Stretchy & Montaigne,
Thanks for sending me the link to this thread Montaigne, Yes I do deal with NHS Trusts across the UK with regards to Decontamination Products & Services.
As far as I am aware hand rails would come under the remit of the Trusts Estates department, probably with input from H & S and Moving & Handling people.
Dealing with the NHS requires talking to a number of people working in different departments, not always on the hospital site, they can be based at Trust Headquarters or even the PCT - While PCT's are still in existence!

Seeing "work that should be done" and the Trust actually agreeing to spend the money on getting the work done, can be worlds apart - The NHS is currently facing the biggest freeze on spending since it was formed in 1948.

Tender opportunities that are published are open to everyone, and if you can get past the PQQ Stage, you stand as good a chance as anyone in winning the business.
Small jobs/work do not require the Trust to go to tender, but if the work to be carried out is going to be costly, they are obliged to go down the tender route.
Stretchy, please feel free to drop me a note and we can discuss further if you wish.

 

[S-Marketing]

Many thanks to you both. I will pm you both this evening with a bit more detail.

 

[Montaigne]

Many thanks to you both. I will pm you both this evening with a bit more detail.

Hurry up and send me more info' Stretchy, I'm intrigued, although I have already ruled out one PCT . It did, however, confirm to me the need for this after finding out that their Estates department has been doing nothing but building ramps and fitting handrails for the last week!

 

[S-Marketing]

Hurry up and send me more info' Stretchy, I'm intrigued, although I have already ruled out one PCT . It did, however, confirm to me the need for this after finding out that their Estates department has been doing nothing but building ramps and fitting handrails for the last week!

I sent you a pm literally 5 mins before you posted this.

 

[Montaigne]

I sent you a pm literally 5 mins before you posted this.

It's always the way lol

 

[telemax]

We are working on a commision only product at the moment, and I love it!! However the clincher is that it's residual income. If we make a sale we are making a monthly commision for the lifetime of the product (up to 5 years).

I think this is incredibly important to anyone working commision only!!