How To Get The Smarts You Neeed To Buy A Business. How To Find & Buy A Good Business?

This forum is like a railway carriage where everybody seems to be the CEO of some vast enterprise, but when they get to their station, the wife is there to pick them up in the family Austin Allegro.

In fairness to @Clinton, his website contains much useful information and he does not try to hide his identity - which I do! But then I retired at the grand old age of 50 to run a small life-style business and earn my money outside of the UK. One or two people here know who I am and I can guarantee to all that I ain't nothing special! But I enjoy my privacy and wish to keep it that way.

I couldn't get out of the rat-race fast enough - it is after all, very bad for rats!
 
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Clinton

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    Clinton , Why are you always on this forum which is normally about small insignificant companies and sole traders

    Because those are mainly the kinds of businesses I owned. I've never owned (or claimed to own) the type of businesses I assist today with my match making service.

    ....maybe you could publish your company details so we can check you out to see if there is any value to your name or if its just all glorifying your name
    The day you have a business large enough for my service, and are interested in it, I'll provide all the credentials you need ;) - from my accounting qualifications to testimonials from previous clients. Till then, as I'm not selling you anything, I don't need to provide every half-wit on the planet with detailed personal information. The information I already have public is more than enough.

    Amusing at times, ultimately full of sh*t.
    Ah, bless, you've been hanging around this thread a long time waiting for an opportunity to say that, haven't you?

    You know there's an ignore button on this site, right? Or do you just like b*tching to derail a thread that was getting along fine with some intelligent conversation from several members (to which, I note, you've been unable to contribute)? ;)

    I couldn't get out of the rat-race fast enough - it is after all, very bad for rats!
    Is it bad for all rats though?
     
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    I have to wait for beer o'clock until our local 'Stig-with-a-Spanner' returns my car with a service and a fresh MOT. I have to drive him back to the workshop.

    As for the original topic - I have never heard of anyone buying a company they didn't know already. I'm sure it happens, but all the deals I have experienced first or second-hand have been between companies in the same sector who knew one another.
    Trade Shows.

    When the day's work is done the restaurants will be buzzing with gossip and deals. Next year a fair chunk of the companies have merged. They knew each other for years.
    This pretty much sums up the way I have experienced M&A at SME level and above. A seven- or eight-figure deal, a handshake and either retirement or a new venture.

    Anyone buying into an industry they don't know intimately is heading for a world of pain (IMO and in my experience). The movie industry draws in suckers from outside as angels and they ALWAYS lose their shirts - even if a project makes pots of money! Pulling idiots in that don't know the business is pretty much an industry in itself!
     
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    Clinton

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    but all the deals I have experienced first or second-hand have been between companies in the same sector who knew one another.
    Knew each other or knew of each other?

    I'm not being pedantic, but the average one man band may know a fair bit about another OMB because they meet at the pub or whatever. Or they exchange tips. Or they hear gossip.

    But the average £5m t/o company or £50m t/o company will know of competitors, because there's only a limited number of larger competitors, but they may not know much about those companies in quite the same way.

    On a different matter ...

    You've kindly mentioned, above, the information on my site, and you've been even more kind by linking to it several times in the past, so I'd like to share something with you. I'm currently working on a project that will mean a ton of new data for this market. This is the first time I'm mentioning it anywhere, but I'll keep you posted. I expect that data to be far more useful - and to a lot more people - than the information on my website.
     
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    the average one man band may know a fair bit about another OMB because they meet at the pub or whatever. Or they exchange tips. Or they hear gossip.
    But the average £5m t/o company or £50m t/o company will know of competitors, because there's only a limited number of larger competitors, but they may not know much about those companies in quite the same way.
    I used to know everybody of note in the music biz. From the chief design engineer at Korg, to old Professor Sennheiser (and his son) who began the Sennheiser microphone company and went on to buy the famous Neumann company. The guy who invented MP3 and then went on to invent all the other MP compression algorithms at the Fraunhofer Institute - yep, I got to meet him on many occasions.

    I could go on and on and . . . well, you get the idea! And across two music markets. If I don't know them personally, I know someone who does. I once said to an old friend of mine (we started in that business when we both had hair - about 49BC) "It would be easier to list all the World-class acts you have NOT recorded! You've done them all, everybody from Tina Turner to Rammstein, from Pavarotti to The Rolling Stones! The only act I can think of that you haven't recorded is Pink Floyd."

    He replied, "Yes, but I did Roger Waters recently!"

    That's just the music biz. Film? Same deal! Spend a year or two in the film industry and you'll get to meet them all from Mendes to Spielberg.

    Even the US high-tech equity fund scene is really tight. I was talking to some random CEO of an investment company from California about an economic study I had published and I discovered that he used to have a major holding in a company that was run by my wife's ex-boss! People just know one another. Walk around one trade fair, attend a few seminars and go to a few press events and you will press the flesh of half the industry.

    OMBs are not businesses - OK, I'll buy that for the local newsagent! But I'm not talking about OMBs. You are trying to distance yourself from OMBs for no reason!

    Oh - and while I'm here - don't get too snooty about OMBs! Someone who was running a series of area-sales for UK medical supply companies (i.e. one salesman repping them all) to Germany had a support staff of 12 and an eight-figure turnover. He was going to sell his operation to a rival - but he drank himself to death instead. Many's the time I had to hold his unconscious body in my arms, thinking "And I thought it was only with rock-n-roll that I had to put up with sh!t like this!"

    Mr. O? I could tell you stories! Led Zeplin? Stones? Floyd? More stories. When old rockers get together the first thing we do is tell one another hairy stories that we have polished into perfect routines over the decades! Some were so bizarre that my own wife refused to believe them until she read about them in the newspaper!

    The message I'm trying to get across is that you don't get into an industry by beasting in, all mouth and trousers, waving a cheque-book, shouting "Who wants to do a deal - cos I is got Big Money?"

    And you don't get in by standing on the sidelines, hoping that you can harpoon a lucrative investment SAS-style. Your clients' money is worthless without market insight, influence and access!

    People have to know you and people have to like you. You have to accept the ethics and morals of that industry and understand how people in that industry think. You may think it's a dog-eat-dog world, but I train and rescue dogs (German Shepherds and Great Danes) and they do not eat one another. It is NOT a dog-eat-dog world. We all muck-in and we all get along.

    And to quote my acquaintance at the lake-side, if someone comes in, blowing it out of the arse, telling us how much money they have, we say "I came here to get away from c*nts like you!"

    Perhaps that's why your clients are finding it hard to find suitable investment targets. We've got enough money. Money is just a number. Governments are printing ever-bigger numbers and cashing-in ever-smaller morals.

    I live on about £25k a year. If some idiot gave me one hundred billion dollars, I would still live on £25k a year (though I might be tempted to buy a new digger). That's all I need. My money goes into projects that help others to fulfill their dreams and make things possible for people. Dreams have currency - numbers are just numbers.

    "You want to buy my company? Don't offer me numbers! I've got all the numbers! What else have you got to offer me? Distribution? Knowhow? Rock-solid ethics? Staff security? A promise that my company assets will never be used as security for debt? What?"
     
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    Clinton

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    I live on about £25k a year.
    You're preaching to the choir. I live a simple life, drive an old Honda, wear t-shirts that are all frayed at the collar. I think we have a similar philosophy when it comes to money and what to do with it.

    But the large majority of business owners have a major preference for money when it comes to selling their business. They want to see a big number, that seems to be their #1 want.

    Perhaps that's why your clients are finding it hard to find suitable investment targets.
    They are not my clients. I'm not into sourcing deals for investors. While I used to do my own deal sourcing when I was buying businesses, that's a tedious job. But I get to meet a lot of buyers and when they ask for those services there are two main firms in the UK to whom I often send them: my friend Ran Carmon'sChelsea Corporate and a guy I'm not that keen on but who runs an efficient operation at Langcliffe Merger Connect. As I'm not into matching buy-side players, I don't even charge for making those connections.

    But the people who are finding it difficult to source deals range all the way from the "buy a business for £1" characters to the OMB buyers to the VC funds and private equity firms.

    You are trying to distance yourself from OMBs for no reason!
    I've got very good reason ;)

    I've got nothing against OMBs, I'm an OMB, but I can't match them with any brokers as none of the good brokers take these clients on. Even if I did have some service to offer OMBs, these businesses generally aren't keen on paying a few grand in advance. So I give them free advice in groups - I'm speaking at Excel Business Networking in Chelmsford next month, for example, and I post in these forums - but can't take them on as clients. That's only because I can't figure a way to make any decent money from them!

    Let's agree to disagree on this. From where I'm sitting, most deals are done between people who didn't know each other at the start of the process. Your experience has obviously been different.
     
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    I'm currently working on a project that will mean a ton of new data for this market. This is the first time I'm mentioning it anywhere, but I'll keep you posted. I expect that data to be far more useful - and to a lot more people - than the information on my website.
    If it helps me to formulate new thoughts, theories and maybe the basis for a paper or other study project, it would interest me. So thanks!
    From where I'm sitting, most deals are done between people who didn't know each other at the start of the process. Your experience has obviously been different.
    I'm trying to get my head around the concept of two parties, one of which knows zilch about the industry they are buying into and for whom there is probably no symbiotic advantage in owning a biscuit brand when all their other companies do something completely different. A friend did sell his father's biscuit company - but to another biscuit company! He went on to buy a small record company which predictably crashed and burnt - because (guess what!) he knew F-all about the music business!

    Because the movie business is seen as glamorous (apparently standing around in the cold and wet, shivering and waiting whilst the gaffa and his crew erect a lighting tower is someone's idea of being groovy and glamorous!) there is always a long line of suckers wanting to 'invest' in a prestige film. If they go through an experienced movie lawyer, they stand a fighting chance of getting some of their money back. If they go in cold, or use a high street lawyer, they get to kiss their money goodbye - they get sold a share for return on net profits. The movie that made a profit has never been made!

    That's what I mean about buying into a business you know nothing about and dealing with people you don't know!

    drive an old Honda,
    You've still got that old dark grey Accord? It must be nearly 20 years old by now! - I loved my old Accord and it was a sad day when it died. Our 'Stig-with-a-Spanner' came back with a list of 12 things that needed fixing if it was to get through the MoT, so to the scrappy it went!
     
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    Clinton

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    I've sent you a DM about the project.

    With respect deals, let's put it this way. There are 1000 firms in the UK providing the service of selling businesses. They study the business, put an information memorandum together and go off to find buyers and negotiate deals. Over 100 of these firms take in £10m+ in fees every year.

    The size of the market (intermediaries finding buyers for businesses) is staggering.

    Cars:

    Yeah, this is my fifth or sixth Honda Accord. The familymobiles, our "other" car, have for several years been Chrysler Grand Voyagers / Town & Countrys. But the repair costs on a Chrysler in the average year are more than I typically spend on a Honda over its entire lifetime. If we had stopped at just two kids we'd never have needed a Grand Voyager in the first place! There's a lesson there for people just starting out ;)
     
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    CVRO

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    That really should have been covered by Warranties and/or found in the DD. I am really surprised that this could happen unless they were cutting corners by not paying for advice properly.

    That happens. Older folks in here may remember when VW bought Rolls Royce back in the late 90s... Just to find out afterwards that it had bought everything but the brand name Rolls Royce...
     
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