How much should I be paying my accountant?

[Zeno]

What really worries me about this outsourcing farce (ignoring the security, quality etc) is that what does this mean for accounting trainees in the UK?

Does this mean that they will spend their training contracts being provided with a set of accounts that they have to "review"? How will they learn how to do it themselves?

I mean lets be honest how many partners/senior managers in the mid sized firms know how the accounts production software works?

 

[Jaydee]

Agreed Zeno

The other thing that I wonder about from the next batch of trainees is where are the next Registered Auditors coming from?

A large proportion of training contracts now must give no exposure at all to audit.

PS - Odd thread! 13 pages long and not much seems to deal with "How much should I be paying my accountant?" !!

 

[Zeno]

Agreed Zeno

The other thing that I wonder about from the next batch of trainees is where are the next Registered Auditors coming from?

A large proportion of training contracts now must give no exposure at all to audit.

I expect that we will see even greater division between accountants & auditors, possibly to the extent of a break away institute.

I had wondered if one of the effects of the credit crunch would be a reversal of the increase in audit thresholds but this would not appear to be happening soon so the point in training anyone in audit is certainly diminishing (if there ever was).

 

[Philip Hoyle]

Agreed Zeno

The other thing that I wonder about from the next batch of trainees is where are the next Registered Auditors coming from?

A large proportion of training contracts now must give no exposure at all to audit.

PS - Odd thread! 13 pages long and not much seems to deal with "How much should I be paying my accountant?" !!

Yes, I have to agree with you both. There's certainly a polarisation of accountancy practice generally. I think that in the same way insolvency practitioners have their own professional body and tend to operate their own insolvency practices, it wouldn't surprise me to see registered auditors being a separate spin-off away from the general accountancy practices. There is already a chasm between small and large accountancy practices which the main chartered bodies can't seem to address, hence the success of the likes of ICPA which are a body for small practicing accountants, whether qualified or not. At the end of the day "accountancy" is too big a discipline and having the profession split by professional bodies each trying to do the same thing isn't helpful. In the long term, I think we could have separate professional bodies for auditors and tax consultants and see a lot more specialist firms rather than the "all things to all men" approach where quality is diluted by firms trying to do too much.

 

[Zeno]

the "all things to all men" approach

I think there will always be a place for the "general practioner" in terms of accounting & taxation services to SMEs (for both our sakes I hope so anyway). For the small, owner managed company it is the only practical option.

I must admit that I often find accounts jobs for whom I am not the primary tax advisor are complicated the existence & input of the specialist. It ranges from simply the three way communication being a problem to the more erm.. inventive, schemes proposed that have to find their way into a set of accounts.

Not something I would like to do everyday.

 

[Philip Hoyle]

I think there will always be a place for the "general practioner" in terms of accounting & taxation services to SMEs (for both our sakes I hope so anyway). For the small, owner managed company it is the only practical option.

I must admit that I often find accounts jobs for whom I am not the primary tax advisor are complicated the existence & input of the specialist. It ranges from simply the three way communication being a problem to the more erm.. inventive, schemes proposed that have to find their way into a set of accounts.

Not something I would like to do everyday.

Of course, I absolutely agree. For the smaller, simpler client, a general practitioner is absolutely fine. After all, such a client won't need a statutory audit and probably will never need any specialist tax advice. If a small general practice can't advise on basic VAT, company remuneration, basic CGT on business sale, etc etc., then they definitely shouldn't be in business.

 

[Zeno]

If a small general practice can't advise on basic VAT, company remuneration, basic CGT on business sale, etc etc., then they definitely shouldn't be in business.

This is what I find interesting in that I cannot see how a background from working in a primarily audit setting for a final four firm seems to qualify so many people for exactly this job.

I mean no offence to anyone as this was almost always the traditional route taken by accountants however given that from the size of company dealt with by these firms it is unlikely that they will even have seen a set of accounts prepared under the FRSSE, never mind the tax issues that come with it.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Blimey - just got back from weekend of walking (well - and eating & drinking!!) and had loads of pages to catch up on.

Just wanted to say before anyone asks:

All CheapAccounting accountants are UK based fully qualified members of a recognised UK accounting body.

 

[GaryMc]

This is what I find interesting in that I cannot see how a background from working in a primarily audit setting for a final four firm seems to qualify so many people for exactly this job.

I mean no offence to anyone as this was almost always the traditional route taken by accountants however given that from the size of company dealt with by these firms it is unlikely that they will even have seen a set of accounts prepared under the FRSSE, never mind the tax issues that come with it.

Depends on where you work Zeno. I was at Deloitte in Bristol (Corporation Tax department) and I worked on farmers who barely made anything all the way up to some very large companies - I had to do some discounted deferred tax on one . If you are outside of London/Reading/Manchester offices then it is more like a local firm but with huge resources to call on.

Saying that our department had a bigger turnover than the firm my wife worked for which is a Top 40 firm.

Only the collapse of one of the Big Four would prompt governments to look at stripping audit out of practices and into its own profession. At the moment, too many governments are advised by the Big Four for there to be any change.