How much do we need live entertainment?

MBE2017

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    I saw Van Morrison several times back in his heyday and was always disappointed by his complete lack of charisma although I loved his music.

    Talking about high energy I also saw Tina Turner at Gateshead Stadium 30 years ago and she burned more calories on that night than I did in a month. What a performer
    I know, she is a fireball, was just as energetic at the back stage party at a gig I watched her at, as was Cher. Van Morrison has hollow legs, Mick Hucknall, a right idiot, never met anyone who really liked him except for his music.

    A friend of mine used to operate the spotlights above the stages, was a roady in big demand and often sent myself back stage and after gig party passes. I have forgotten a few nights over the years.
     
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    DefinitelyMaybeUK

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    Steve Hackett next year.
    Ooo that's a blast from the past - my first concert back in '79 or '80 I reckon for the Spectral Mornings LP (!), I'll have to dig that one out from the cupboard, an absolute classic from my teen days before diverting to Clapton and his year on year stints at the Albert Hall. My last concert (to date) was the Killers, a phenomenal live band and just a couple of weeks back ?
     
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    japancool

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    I went to a ping-pong tournament in Thailand.

    At least, ping-ping balls were involved.

    Seriously though, the last play I went to see was Yes, Prime Minister in the West End. It was... alright. Possibly not worth the £25 it cost to get in, it wasn't as good as the TV show.

    I think I'd have preferred to spend that money eating out.
     
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    MBE2017

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    Unusually watched a couple of hours of Glastonbury tonight.

    Nice to see Neil Tenant of the Pet Shop Boys came out on the stage at the start of his performance with the tuning fork stuck to his face that Diana Ross had lost from her performance earlier in the day.
     
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    Lucan Unlordly

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    I regularly go to see Live events and whilst I shirk at the cost of the big names - in big arenas - would struggle to live without live music in particular...

    Comedians: Russell Kane - twice and booked for a third. Iain Stirling, Frank Skinner, Lee Nelson, Micky Flanagan, ........Ken Dodd, Chubby Brown, Bernard Manning, Jim Davidson, Mike Reid - back in the day
    West End Shows: Not something I rush to, done a few over the years
    Music/evening with sort of thing: Rick Wakeman, Danny Baker & Whispering Bob Harris, John Cooper Clarke - all worth every penny.

    Music: Go about 10 times a year to local Saturday afternoon Blues Club featuring fantastic musicians up close and personal. £7 and cheap beer...
    In contrast £90 to see Dionne Warwick at the Royal Albert Hall was awful... The day cost the best part of £300 for me and the missus!
    Paid £30 to see 70's rock giants FOCUS for the second time a few weeks ago 'fantastic'
    Has cost me less than £20 to see the worlds greatest guitarist 4 times in recent years!:p

    Tribute bands: The Feelgood Band, Brit Floyd, Whole Lotta Led, The Small Fakers, Voodoo Room give much better value to your wallet and your ears.
     
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    simon field

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    I crave live gigs - absolutely love it!

    This year so far: Primal Scream, Bloc Party, Fish (ex-Marillion), Wolf Alice, going to see Pearl Jam & the Pixies in Hyde park in a couple of weeks, then Latitude festival end of next month, I just love the whole lifestyle, atmosphere, and everything that goes with it!
     
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    I crave live gigs - absolutely love it!

    This year so far: Primal Scream, Bloc Party, Fish (ex-Marillion), Wolf Alice, going to see Pearl Jam & the Pixies in Hyde park in a couple of weeks, then Latitude festival end of next month, I just love the whole lifestyle, atmosphere, and everything that goes with it!
    A friend of mine follows Marillion around the world. Rises to the bait every single time when you ask if Fish was good (pun is an added bonus)
     
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    Ryan Paul

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    Considering the cost of living crisis, how important is live entertainment (music/comedy/other) right now?

    How much would you be happy to spend on a ticket to enjoy a night of escapism?
    Live Entertainment is very important.

    Aside from endorsements, touring is the #1 earner for artists, agents, record companies.
    With cds and dvds no longer a revenue steam for entertainers, we are now seeing a price increase on ticketed events.

    I have noticed a lot of gigs are struggling to sell out now and the remaining tickets are being sold at 2for1 or passed to NHS workers at a reduced rate.

    This goes to show the cost of living has shot up and there are far less punters with disposable income.

    Ticketmaster has recently introduced Klarna. That says it all.
     
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    Lucan Unlordly

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    Live Entertainment is very important.

    Aside from endorsements, touring is the #1 earner for artists, agents, record companies.
    With cds and dvds no longer a revenue steam for entertainers, we are now seeing a price increase on ticketed events.

    I have noticed a lot of gigs are struggling to sell out now and the remaining tickets are being sold at 2for1 or passed to NHS workers at a reduced rate.

    This goes to show the cost of living has shot up and there are far less punters with disposable income.

    Ticketmaster has recently introduced Klarna. That says it all.
    Some years ago I sold events advertising on the MIRROR newspaper. We were up against the MAIL who's readers had more disposable income and probably still have? We got all the seaside amusements, farm park and pantomime stuff. They got all the country houses, regattas, theatres and live artist events.

    Is disposable income the issue or is it because of an increased number of artists touring post Covid?

    Is disposable income the issue or is the fear of Covid stopping some folk from going to crowded venues?
     
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    JaredMol

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    Depends on the event. I've been to one music concert (Ludovico Einaudi) in my whole life. If I'm not mistaken the ticket was £70. It was ok for me to pay that price. I also need to note that I was impressed by the concert and was not sorry for the money spent. He's supposed to be in London in October, so maybe I'll go again.

    Also it's ok to spend money on tickets to the movie, if anything worthwhile is showing. I know that you can do this at home, but I think we pay more for the atmosphere that the cinema brings.
     
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    Ryan Paul

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    Some years ago I sold events advertising on the MIRROR newspaper. We were up against the MAIL who's readers had more disposable income and probably still have? We got all the seaside amusements, farm park and pantomime stuff. They got all the country houses, regattas, theatres and live artist events.

    Is disposable income the issue or is it because of an increased number of artists touring post Covid?

    Is disposable income the issue or is the fear of Covid stopping some folk from going to crowded venues?
    Covid is not deterring folk from anything.
    It's finances.
    Folk are being out priced and have less spare cash.
     
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    Financial-Modeller

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    Personally I love seeing bands live, going to the rugby etc, but the answer to "how much do we need live entertainment" is probably "less than it was due to technological advancement"

    When TVs were a small heavy box containing a low-resolution CRT screen, displaying crackly film in black and white, with a single speaker, going to see something live was obviously a significantly better experience. Watching it at a later date required purchase or rental of a video cassette.

    Critically - given that this is a business forum - broadcasters of entertainment had no way of monetising the content, other than eventually sharing advertising revenue when commercial channels were added.

    Now that every home has a dolby-surround cinema system with a high-resolution screen and fabulously filmed and edited coverage, with loads of extra value-added content (strategy drawn on rugby fields, slow-motion goal-line tech, Formula 1 telemetry etc) the ability to pause, rewind, fast-forward anything at any time, for a fraction of the cost of attending a event live, the incentive to consume entertainment indoors is greater.

    Broadcasters have immediate access to consumer behaviour data etc and can price streaming services accordingly to turn content into cash.

    250,000 people attended Glastonbury though, so live entertainment isn't dead, but I bet more people watched it on TV than attended.
     
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    paulears

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    So we are agreed entertainment is important and popular and we're just arguing about how much we're willing to spend? That's good. Abba's new show had just a handful of seats left for the night my wife is free and abba aren't really there! I've just had one show I was going to as a punter cancelled in Amsterdam and I've lost the plane ticket cost. The thing with entertainment is we like (and can afford) different things. If the Eagles cost £400 a ticket and people are willing to pay, that's great. However - some things cost only a tenner, but you feel short changed.
     
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    UKSBD

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    So we are agreed entertainment is important and popular and we're just arguing about how much we're willing to spend?

    Not me.
    99% of live entertainment could be free and I still wouldn't go.

    Much prefer just watching it on YouTube.

    Rarely even watch the full videos on YouTube, just tend to flick through most things.

    Couldn't do without my pause, rewind and more importantly fast forward.
     
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    fisicx

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    UKSBD

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    You are the exception.
    Yes, but back to the OP
    Considering the cost of living crisis, how important is live entertainment (music/comedy/other) right now?

    0%
    Much prefer just watching at home

    How much would you be happy to spend on a ticket to enjoy a night of escapism?

    A meal out with 6 to 12 mates = £50

    Night out doing an activity (Ten pin bowling, go karting, darts/pool competition organised by dozen or so mates, etc.) = £50

    Golf day with a nice breakfast and lunch = £80

    Any exciting activity with group of mates or family = up to £100

    Pantomime or the odd theatre show with family = £30 per family member (once or twice a year)

    Cinema = £20 per person but only if something I really wanted to see, I get 5 free cinema tickets a year from my bank, but didn't use any of them in last 5 years :(

    I'd pay for night or day out doing something, not just watching or listening to something though unless it was in my local pub and then I would pay up to £20 to see a comedy show.
     
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    simon field

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    Personally I love seeing bands live, going to the rugby etc, but the answer to "how much do we need live entertainment" is probably "less than it was due to technological advancement"

    When TVs were a small heavy box containing a low-resolution CRT screen, displaying crackly film in black and white, with a single speaker, going to see something live was obviously a significantly better experience. Watching it at a later date required purchase or rental of a video cassette.

    Critically - given that this is a business forum - broadcasters of entertainment had no way of monetising the content, other than eventually sharing advertising revenue when commercial channels were added.

    Now that every home has a dolby-surround cinema system with a high-resolution screen and fabulously filmed and edited coverage, with loads of extra value-added content (strategy drawn on rugby fields, slow-motion goal-line tech, Formula 1 telemetry etc) the ability to pause, rewind, fast-forward anything at any time, for a fraction of the cost of attending a event live, the incentive to consume entertainment indoors is greater.

    Broadcasters have immediate access to consumer behaviour data etc and can price streaming services accordingly to turn content into cash.

    250,000 people attended Glastonbury though, so live entertainment isn't dead, but I bet more people watched it on TV than attended.
    But attendance is limited to 250,000. The tickets sell out in minutes. If it was 1,000,000 capacity it would still sell out!

    Such is the draw of THE archetypal festival of its kind, anywhere in the world.

    Watching on the telly - well it completely misses the buzz, the atmosphere, the actual magic of being surrounded by thousands of like-minded people feeding back off the band (or poet, or comic) and vice versa, and creating that chemical ‘something’ that just can’t be recreated unless you’re there.

    I haven’t been since 1992, but I can honestly say it’s completely amazing. Bob Dylan, Primal Scream, The Orb, The Prodigy, Radiohead - If you like that kind of thing of course!

    It’s often said that it brings out some of the best performances of an artiste’s career.
     
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    MBE2017

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    Well, I won’t give out any spoilers re the new Elvis film, but I thought it was excellent.
    The guy playing Elvis is amazing, acts, speaks and sounds like Elvis. The only problem the film has is covering so much, even in a long film, means it is thin in areas, but the Elvis stage and TV performance sequences are incredible.
     
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    Lucan Unlordly

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    Covid is not deterring folk from anything.
    It's finances.
    Folk are being out priced and have less spare cash.
    My business works with customers that put on events, many of which cost less than £20 to attend.

    Post Covid attendances are down because the habit of going out has been stifled and some folk still fear catching or passing on the virus.

    Of course some will be financially effected but those hit hardest and hit first are more likely to have scraped and saved to get to live events anyway.
     
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    Dinky

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    For me life experiences are key, so does the penny pitcher in me begrudge paying £££ for an event, absolutely! But a few years down the line I will have completely forgotten exactly what I paid, but will remember in detail what a great day I had.

    The most I've paid for an event was £160 for Wimbledon men's tennis semi final Centre Count ticket last year. Incredibly expensive, but it was the one time I could realistically get such ticket as due to Covid ALL tickets sales were online, where as normally you have to enter/be lucky in a ballot, or camp outside over night. So I swallowed hard, cough up the wonga, saw two great matches including world no 1 at his best and had a fantastic day all round that will live long in the memory.
     
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    IanSuth

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    I know, she is a fireball, was just as energetic at the back stage party at a gig I watched her at, as was Cher. Van Morrison has hollow legs, Mick Hucknall, a right idiot, never met anyone who really liked him except for his music.

    A friend of mine used to operate the spotlights above the stages, was a roady in big demand and often sent myself back stage and after gig party passes. I have forgotten a few nights over the years.
    I worked as local crew at uni, from that i got into helping out a PA company, they shared a workshop/warehouse with a bigger PA company and so for the 3 yrs i was at uni plus a yr after i was working on gigs at least 4 days a week for pin money and a free ticket with a view to becoming a sound engineer (via monitor engineer).

    I realised at the end of that year (the time i had set myself) that pretty much all the owners of PA companies had got there via being mates with people who made it big as a band and they had ridden their coat tails. I looked at my mates and decided i had no chance so got a real job. My ex stayed working as stage manager for a little venue for a few years before coming to the same conclusion

    The good side was i got to go to some huge gigs (Sisters of Mercy at NEC, Glastonbury 90 with the Cure & Happy Mondays plus Circus Archaos) and saw all the bands of the time (this was late 89 to mid 93) some when they were really small like Radiohead, Manic Street Preachers or on come backs (Bob Geldof, The Dammed, Siouxsie & the Banshees, Squeeze) the bad side was found that when i went to gigs after i was critiquing the sound or wondering what equipment they were using etc, so i withdrew from all live music above pub gigs for about 15 years.
     
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    paulears

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    This is perfectly normal - bands like working with the same people, and this applies to all touring shows - music, non-music, ballet, opera, pantomime, light entertainment - they ALL need to pick up a phone and talk to people they trust. A few even bankrolled the hir company, and just to ensure their 3 month touring season would be covered. Some might roll along for ten years or so, then stray, but others are the preferred supplier for ever. Covid killed many of these firms and some new ones popped up using, I think, covid grants. They have proven to be from my experience, pretty appalling - using recent graduates and brand new vehicles.

    The established hire firms used their lists of crew, and breaking into that was quite hard to do, and it was ALWAYS recommendations from friends. Friends rarely recommend idiots to people who give them work.

    I cannot see anything wrong with this. In my entire working life, I did two interviews in my early 20's, one got me a job, one didn't. ever since then I have worked continually by recommendation - Indeed, when I took 15 years out to be a 'real' teacher, I managed to keep the summer contracts - and when I walked away, unemployed, the phone rang - "is it true you're back?" I said ys and went straight into the first contract - that firm have used me now for 18 yrs. best thing is they also use lots of my ex-students, the ones I recommended and some are doing the pop stuff and doing well. The phone would ring and they'd ask if I could suggest people - I did.

    So many of the old firms just folded. The ones who remain are doing OK again. This industry is entirely word of mouth. The cost of kit means that chances to stock up and get work are very rare - but that is how it is. Why did you not just stay in with the PA companies who were in with the bands? Surely you must have noticed how clicquey it is? Riding coat tails is how it works - only as good as the last job. There's no way anything other than covid could have made these new companies viable, and one has proven so incompetent they are now in trouble - they went to lots of the producers, undercut the coat tailers by a long way, and damaged many of those too - then proved that they just didn't have it. So many complaints by the venues and the performers. My job now entails keeping the "do not employ" list - a verbal and never shared list of people to avoid. Every year I put newbies on it. The ones with shitty attitudes or claimed abilities and skills they don't have. "What do you think of ABC - you had them this year, didn't you?" The answer is usually - next question? That's enough to make 3 years at uni a possible waste of student loan. Sometimes, the warnings go unheeded and people change, but most times - they are just too much a risk.
     
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    IanSuth

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    This is perfectly normal - bands like working with the same people, and this applies to all touring shows - music, non-music, ballet, opera, pantomime, light entertainment - they ALL need to pick up a phone and talk to people they trust. A few even bankrolled the hir company, and just to ensure their 3 month touring season would be covered. Some might roll along for ten years or so, then stray, but others are the preferred supplier for ever. Covid killed many of these firms and some new ones popped up using, I think, covid grants. They have proven to be from my experience, pretty appalling - using recent graduates and brand new vehicles.

    The established hire firms used their lists of crew, and breaking into that was quite hard to do, and it was ALWAYS recommendations from friends. Friends rarely recommend idiots to people who give them work.

    I cannot see anything wrong with this. In my entire working life, I did two interviews in my early 20's, one got me a job, one didn't. ever since then I have worked continually by recommendation - Indeed, when I took 15 years out to be a 'real' teacher, I managed to keep the summer contracts - and when I walked away, unemployed, the phone rang - "is it true you're back?" I said ys and went straight into the first contract - that firm have used me now for 18 yrs. best thing is they also use lots of my ex-students, the ones I recommended and some are doing the pop stuff and doing well. The phone would ring and they'd ask if I could suggest people - I did.

    So many of the old firms just folded. The ones who remain are doing OK again. This industry is entirely word of mouth. The cost of kit means that chances to stock up and get work are very rare - but that is how it is. Why did you not just stay in with the PA companies who were in with the bands? Surely you must have noticed how clicquey it is? Riding coat tails is how it works - only as good as the last job. There's no way anything other than covid could have made these new companies viable, and one has proven so incompetent they are now in trouble - they went to lots of the producers, undercut the coat tailers by a long way, and damaged many of those too - then proved that they just didn't have it. So many complaints by the venues and the performers. My job now entails keeping the "do not employ" list - a verbal and never shared list of people to avoid. Every year I put newbies on it. The ones with shitty attitudes or claimed abilities and skills they don't have. "What do you think of ABC - you had them this year, didn't you?" The answer is usually - next question? That's enough to make 3 years at uni a possible waste of student loan. Sometimes, the warnings go unheeded and people change, but most times - they are just too much a risk.
    oh yes i totally agree.

    What i mean is i realised the ones who were actually making money owned the gear and they seemed to be sound engineers who had engineered their mates bands as they grew from pub band to major arena and off the back of that had made enough £ to purchase gear rather than working for others.

    So I did work for Juice who were owned by a guy who had done Prefab sprout and he shared a warehouse in Northampton with Tourtech who were owned by Pete who had come up with Bauhaus, they each employed/used engineers who were at least as good technically but due to not having had mates in bands who made it big had nowhere near the same money. One had started a PA company in Coventry using a NCB business start up loan but ended up having to sell all his gear to juice and go and work for him in the 1990 recession, that is what made me decide I was unlikely to succeed long term.

    I had learned enough to realise how little I knew and that i wasnt really good enough to succeed as well.

    In those 4 years though i had gone from humper to monitor engineer (and small gig front of house sound) and likely worked on 500+ gigs from a vocal PA in a pub to the NEC
     
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