How Many Of You Bother With Meta Keywords?

[stato77]

How many of you still use meta keywords. Is there any point still including them.

Would my time be better spent on focusing on creating better title tags and meta descriptions?

 

[dave_n]

i use them but in combination with other seo worthy practices.

 

[ArtooTeetoo]

Even if Google no longer take keywords into account, many other search engines do, so it is generally better to incorporate them I think.

 

[wood1e2]

If something what ever that something is does not adversly affect your website, then include it. As mentioned above, some search engines still look at them.

The idea behind any seo is to help bots read your website, whether that is code or content.

 

[bwb]

They are still a factor to some degree in Google, very very very small probably but one thing we always recommend is that each page have its own set of keywords that describe that content. That is just one more indication to Google that the site is well organized. Plus as said above other search engines might value these a tad more.

 

[seo_uk]

I put them in as it is good practice, but they carry very little weight in the grand scheme of SEO.

 

[bwb]

A site you guys might find useful too is this one on SEOmoz:

http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors

Ranks factors according to a lot of experts, useful. Here is their view on Meta Keywords.

Keyword Use in Meta Keywords Tag

Utilizing keywords in the meta keywords tag in a webpage's HTML header
1.2 Slight Importance

0.5 High Consensus

Barry Schwartz

Only Yahoo and I doubt they use it much.​

Natasha Robinson

Works for mispellings in Yahoo (Ha, I spelled "mispellings" wrong) - And this is about Google.​

Show the rest of the comments

EGOL

Do it just in case.​

Jonah Stein

Google ignores them​

Scottie Claiborne

Useless, IMO.​

Eric Ward

buy cialis buy cialis buy cialis....ditto​

Danny Sullivan

And, of course, only for Yahoo.​

Neil Patel

A lot of search engines just ignore this tag.​

Russ Jones

Almost no value, but two pages with gibberish for content, one with a real keyword in a meta keywords tag, the other without... The one with the keyword will rank above. Which weigh's more, an anvil, or an anvil with a feather?​

Thomas Bindl

Could not see any influence in Google lately​

Mike McDonald

I think some less sophisticated directories and possibly even a few search engines might still look at this tag - but not many- and the few that do likely don't give it a lot of weight (unless they're really dumb)​

Ben Pfeiffer

Worthless. Even more worthless for misspellings.​

Guillaume

Just so boring to fill simply for wacky engines that will bring 1 visitor every century.​

Lucas Ng (aka shor)

On a similar note, it will also be interesting to see what, if anything, Google does with microformats.​

Jill Whalen

Doesn't influence rankings at all in Google which doesn't index the information provided within it. Is fractionally weighted with Yahoo, but should only help if there are no other pages indexed that actually use the words in more important areas of the site.​

Elisabeth Osmeloski

i do believe it is spot-checked for matching up with a page's content or other SEO elements.​

Chris Boggs

Maybe somewhere other than Google. ​

Caveman

Probably more useful in finding spam than in ranking pages. We bother only because there's still a chance that they matter slightly. Sometimes we use them to mess with competition.​

Todd Malicoat

Meh. This is so '98. If someone mentions writing all your keywords in meta tags you should probably run from them screaming "spammer" at the top of your lungs.​

Rae Hoffman

I don't think this counts for anything these days, but I still always recommend they are included and include them on my own commercial sites... it's classification, can't hurt you and simply good practice.​

Roger Montti aka martinibuster

Sometimes I wonder if having this tag in there might count against you, at least for a fraction of a point. If I were turning the knobs I'd make it worthy of raising at least one eyebrow on an algo cruncher somewhere.​

 

[Wireless Guy]

I agree with most of the comments.

I use meta keywords for visibility/relevance in non Google searches.

The consensus from the 'experts' seems to be that keywords may have a small influence in rankings so why not spend a few minutes finding some relevant keywords and using them in a white hat manner in your meta keywords tag.

A couple of points:

Make sure you have relevant keywords for each page. It's arguable that site wide keywords could be regarded as spammy.

Don't use mis-spelled keywords. Any keywords in your meta-tags should appear in the body of the page copy so there's a potential spam issue here too.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[seo_uk]

A couple of points:

Make sure you have relevant keywords for each page. It's arguable that site wide keywords could be regarded as spammy.

Don't use mis-spelled keywords. Any keywords in your meta-tags should appear in the body of the page copy so there's a potential spam issue here too.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Totally agree, these are good points.

Although good meta-tag keywords can be useful. Bad meta-tag keywords can be harmful for your rankings.

By bad I mean "spamming", so cramming lots meta-tag keywords on each page. Make sure they are relavent and you will be fine.

 

[arindra]

SEO in general is typically just following standards and processes - so having them in place is good practice . however having wrong meta tags can not be directly harmful for the simple reason that it means : SE's keep checking them specifically , which i doubt .

 

[seo_uk]

SEO in general is typically just following standards and processes - so having them in place is good practice . however having wrong meta tags can not be directly harmful for the simple reason that it means : SE's keep checking them specifically , which i doubt .

This isn't worth arguing about, but just your final point here "which I doubt" imply's that you don't actually know if they do or not.

I stand by my claim that trying to manipulate the meta-tag keywords by overloading it in a spammy type way will do you more harm than good. In fact I have seen it with my own eyes.

 

[aaliyahlim]

Planning your keyword is worth your time, it is very wise to formulate good targeted keywords, then back it up with some SEO tricks the results will be perfect.

 

[arindra]

This isn't worth arguing about, but just your final point here "which I doubt" imply's that you don't actually know if they do or not.

I stand by my claim that trying to manipulate the meta-tag keywords by overloading it in a spammy type way will do you more harm than good. In fact I have seen it with my own eyes.

Yes, i am saying that i don't "actually" know or claim to know in a generic way - there are multiple SE's with varying algorithms which change over time.

 

[newbie.soletrader]

however having wrong meta tags can not be directly harmful for the simple reason that it means : SE's keep checking them specifically , which i doubt .

While there is a difference between simply having the 'wrong' keywords and totally abusing the tag with spam, I agree with SEO_uk that meta keywords are potentially still a spam indicator.

Google has algo's based on mathematics and words so its not that hard to check what is in the meta kewords against what is in the main content and identify multiple repetitions or an overuse of words. not to mention manual inspections (which do happen despite them saying they don't do hand jobs on sites reported with their online notification tool)

But since the consensus is that its pretty much useless why would you want to risk your site abusing this tag unless you were a BH playing with your own creations?

 

[arindra]

what i am saying might be taken wrongly ,so will elaborate .
I am not in favour of using irrelevant or repetitive keywords . But if you think of the amount of sites Google indexes to browse , you will know - even though theoretically Google can spot the sites having abusive meta tags , practically they can not store so much information or probably will not try to overload their system in the attempts.

 

[newbie.soletrader]

what i am saying might be taken wrongly ,so will elaborate .
I am not in favour of using irrelevant or repetitive keywords . But if you think of the amount of sites Google indexes to browse , you will know - even though theoretically Google can spot the sites having abusive meta tags , practically they can not store so much information or probably will not try to overload their system in the attempts.

we already know that google does not use the meta keywords as a ranking factor and this is because of the past abuse NOT because it would have system overload. considering you have already said you dont *know* im not sure why you are still pushing that stuffing and abusing the meta keyword tag is not likely to be harmful. seo_uk has experience of it and so have I.

 

[seo_uk]

arindra, you have all your links in your signature. Do you really think it is beneficial for you to hammer home your unqualified point about meta-tag keywords. I think everyone in this forum would say that meta-tag keywords carry little or no weight in the main SE's, so lets leave it and move on.

Lets get some threads going about things that really help, ie links, good on-page optimisation and relevant content.

 

[stato77]

Thanks for clearing that up. I think that many people hold different opinions over the use of meta tags.

As they have no little or no weight in google, I will not bother adding them to my site.

Is there anyway that I can hide my meta description tags like www.searchenginejournal.com

 

[newbie.soletrader]

Is there anyway that I can hide my meta description tags like www.searchenginejournal.com

what do you mean hide them?
and why would you want to hide them?

 

[stato77]

That was the wrong domain sorry. I mean is there a way of hiding them so that they can be seen by search engines but not by your competitors like and external file etc.

 

[newbie.soletrader]

hiding anything on your website so it can only be seen by search engines is not a good idea at all.

the meta description is what displays in the serps when the searched term is not present on the actual page.

why dont you want your competitors to see your description tag?

 

[garethparkin]

Gosh this thread is getting rather heated! Guys don't get hung up on meta keywords and trying to con Google, if you produce a website that is rich in user friendly content with plent of relevant ontopic links back from thematic websites and with a lot of hard work then you will get rewarded for this in Google.

Think about the user of the website and what they are looking for when searching for your products or services then lay out your website in an organised, structured manner, I always use the analogy of a broadsheet newspaper - Main heading, sub headings and then paragraph content.

Too many people think seo is really complicated actually it isn't - common sense approach and the obvious is what it is all about. Many times I have fallen into the trap of overcomplicating my seo approach and then at a weekend over a glass of wine the obvious comes to mind and I think God why didn't I look at it that way, it seemed so obvious. I have even been on courses to the top seo companies and come back and not really taken in what has been said for months and then it just clicks. Best tip is to step back take a deep breath and with a logical head on analyse the situation and think am I really providing the Google with what it wants which is rich ontopic content.

regards

Gareth

 

[rhaaw@]

This is a post I made on worldwidewebforums.com

Hi there, modern search engines like Google have steered away from using META keywords to 'index' people's sites, instead they look at the actual content on the pages so make sure there are plenty of keywords in there. That said I still include META tags in any site's I work on for anyone/anything that may still use them. Can't hurt can it?

......

 

[arindra]

The fact that i have continued saying that I am not the authority , means i don't consider myself in the equivalent of people like Aaron Wall or Dan Thies and my comments in a post should not be considered as misleading , later on . ( You don't like it - ignore it. How is my signature links relevant in the topic of discussion ? :eek )
However that does not imply that i don't have knowledge on the same . If required i can show examples of unworthy meta tags are not penalized . On the contrary , if you research yourself further , you will come to recognize that varying meta description can actually help in search engine promotion - meta descriptions are what your search engine visitors often read on a SERP and can act on it .
As to your question why I am still on this is because the OP asked if people do and still bother using meta tags . Meta keywords is not the only meta tag .

we already know that google does not use the meta keywords as a ranking factor and this is because of the past abuse NOT because it would have system overload. considering you have already said you dont *know* im not sure why you are still pushing that stuffing and abusing the meta keyword tag is not likely to be harmful. seo_uk has experience of it and so have I.

arindra, you have all your links in your signature. Do you really think it is beneficial for you to hammer home your unqualified point about meta-tag keywords. I think everyone in this forum would say that meta-tag keywords carry little or no weight in the main SE's, so lets leave it and move on.

Lets get some threads going about things that really help, ie links, good on-page optimisation and relevant content.

 

[newbie.soletrader]

You don't like it - ignore it

im afraid i cant ignore when someone says something that I believe is incorrect. i moderate an seo forum and im forever hearing people say "I heard this on another forum" either because they were misinformed or they misunderstood

If required i can show examples of unworthy meta tags are not penalized

and so can I, it doesn't mean meta tags are not a spam indicator. do you work on the basis that if you see someone else doing something and its still indexed then its ok? talk about naive. do you realised how many spammy sites continue to rank in google simply because they havent been identified yet?

As to your question why I am still on this is because the OP asked if people do and still bother using meta tags . Meta keywords is not the only meta tag .

incorrect, the OP asked this:

How many of you still use meta keywords. Is there any point still including them.

so i was talking about meta keywords and i understood you were also discussing meta keywords

if you research yourself further , you will come to recognize that varying meta description can actually help in search engine promotion - meta descriptions are what your search engine visitors often read on a SERP and can act on it .

I've been in the seo game for a number of years now and have developed and ran successful campaigns for leading holiday companies through to small retail websites so I am quite familiar with the meta keyword AND the meta description tag and the benefits (or not) of each. Maybe if you researched further you will come to realised that the meta description is not just about clicks from the SERPs it is also a trigger for the supplemental index.

Gosh this thread is getting rather heated! Guys don't get hung up on meta keywords and trying to con Google, if you produce a website that is rich in user friendly content with plent of relevant ontopic links back from thematic websites and with a lot of hard work then you will get rewarded for this in Google.

best comment so far, well done gareth!

 

[seo_uk]

The fact that i have continued saying that I am not the authority , means i don't consider myself in the equivalent of people like Aaron Wall or Dan Thies and my comments in a post should not be considered as misleading , later on . ( You don't like it - ignore it. How is my signature links relevant in the topic of discussion ? :eek )

lol, did you think anyone was thinking you were even close to Aaron Wall or Dan Thies? Personally I got the impression you were a web designer getting out of your depth with SEO.

I really don't like arguing in forums, it helps no one and puts off newbies. But I do believe in correcting people when you know they are wrong.

Unfortunately you have not managed to back up your claims and we are still here talking about meta keywords, that are the most insignificant SEO factors going.

My point about your sig is that I think you have to be aware that your business is on full display when you are arguing points you dont fully understand. The first thing I did when you started your meta tag crusade was to look at your site, which could definately do with some SEO.

 

[arindra]

lol, did you think anyone was thinking you were even close to Aaron Wall or Dan Thies?

As much as I would like to keep the conversation civil , your responses give me the notion that You dont wish to . Personally i think you are a kiddie having too much time on your hands.

Personally I got the impression you were a web designer getting out of your depth with SEO.

You would be very wrong in guessing that I am anywhere out of my depth in SEO . The reason I write the was above , only because I am not being paid to give my comments here , and i am just giving them as a passing comment . I believe it is a courtesy to mention that I am not mentioning a FACT. And I hope you will take the practise , while trying to post on a open forum ... as NO Search engine optimizer knows for certain what Google or any others SE's actual policy / algorithm is .
@ Newbie.Soletrader : Moderating a "seo forum" ( how about a link) to some articles you wrote and some results you achieved is better than a passing remark .

Yes , you were right only that the OP asked about Meta Keywords - which I now notice , but i made it quite clear on my post as well what i wrote about . And you can ignore others comments ... as you see very few people have replied back beside you and seo_uk .
It is true that we do not only work with SEO , but we also work on various other fields - such as web design , php mysql Ajax programming and .NET , along with creating open source customizations and more . That does not limit my / our knowledge to only SEO , but only enhances it .
Seo_UK , i have got nothing against you personally either and Forums are for arguing ( civilly) on topics ...if you can do it civilly , it will increase knowledge on both ends .

As regards our website , which could do with "some seo" : care to give some pointers ? We rank on multiple favourable keywords , with a currently nice Quality Score on Adsense - both of which generate regular conversions . We can do it on a separate thread ... of course

 

[seo_uk]

As regards our website , which could do with "some seo" : care to give some pointers ? We rank on multiple favourable keywords , with a currently nice Quality Score on Adsense - both of which generate regular conversions . We can do it on a separate thread ... of course

OK, I have had enough about talking about this as have probably you and everyone else on this thread. Lets have a look at your site

Website analysis:

Websys_co_in

On-page:

• Too many keywords in title tag for homepage
• No header tags used
• No real keyord theme on hompage
• website appears unfinished in places

Off-page

• Lots of links, but many from the same place
• Not many appear to use "keyword anchor text" in links
• Most are forum sigs or links in templates you have sold

Suggestions:

Sort out your on-page optimisation, do some keyword analysis and then pick one or two primary keywords to optimise hompage for. Use this keyword(s) in title tag, header tags and in keywords in content. Stick no-follows on links to redundant pages like "about us" - to retain PR on pages that matter.

When selling future templates stick keyword anchor text on your links, so when they point back to your site you get credit.

 

[arindra]

Wow , thats mighty nice of you i must say . Can't say i don't appreciate it .
But you know what , i like the results we get and the reports provided by a reputed tool at SEOMOZ or Simmilar :

Here are some facts from the same :

• Pages Indexed at Google:115
• Pages Indexed at Yahoo!:106
• Pages Indexed at MSN: 112

Yahoo Site Explorer shows 31,000 Inlinks .

Now for some display of results , ok ? Once done i will come to your "on page " and "of page" surmises ...

#2 on Yahoo.co.uk for "outsource web development india"
#5 on Yahoo.co.uk for "outsource web design india "
#7 on Google.co.uk for "invisionboard templates"
#6 on Google.co.uk for "header animations"
#12 on Yahoo.co.uk for "vbulletin templates"

and more i can show if i had the time .

and note : i have only displayed some rankings from UK search engines here only , as most folks here are UK based and around .

 

[seo_uk]

I looked through a load of those 31,000 links, like I said most are sites that you have built. One of them "discussTV.com" has thousands of pages, each one with a link to your site. So it's is more like 3000 links.

Those rankings are not bad, but they are a bit long tail arn't they?

Where are the real juicy keywords: website templates, forum templates, outsource webdesign????

 

[arindra]

Now about your
On Page :

• Too many keywords in title tag for homepage
• No header tags used
• No real keyord theme on hompage
• website appears unfinished in places

Too many ? Not really the title has 3 primary keyword , and we succesfully maintain on all 3 . For the first 2 we target international market and for the 3rd one - local . The title is within acceptable number of letters .
Header tags - You use them if you need to or wish to - we don't . The keyword theme is there - and I do not see any reason to elaborate what - we like to maintain some points which are unnecessary to disclose .
Website remaining unfinished in places - only 2 pages probably... that should be our disadvantage , but till now it has not been .
Many of our links comes from themes templates we have sold , sites we have designed - which should be considered a very valid resource , unlike people who attempt by getting links from paying for Sponsor Links . As an seo you would know that .
This is only part of our rankings you see , as an seo you would know , Google DOES NOT show all links for a domain - whereas Yahoo shows all link data .
I believe your knowledge and time is best spent on your own site ( as different firms will have different SEO practises and policies ) and your own clients .

 

[seo_uk]

You are beginning to sound like the man who has an answer for everything.

I think we knock this on the head, before the mods decide to pull it themselves.

 

[bwb]

can we lock this thread before it really gets out of hand?

 

[arindra]

SEO_UK , as an seo i expect you know longtail keywords generates lots of actual conversions .
As regards , what you consider as juicy would be different to what we do - we are totally different entities , are we not ?
We maintain lots of more good rankings , but as i said i have given only a sample .

As regards locking , i had proposed a seperate thread before you opted to give a free link analysis

 

A site you guys might find useful too is this one on SEOmoz:

http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors

Ranks factors according to a lot of experts, useful. Here is their view on Meta Keywords.

Keyword Use in Meta Keywords Tag

Utilizing keywords in the meta keywords tag in a webpage's HTML header
1.2 Slight Importance

0.5 High Consensus

Barry Schwartz

Only Yahoo and I doubt they use it much.
​

Natasha Robinson

Works for mispellings in Yahoo (Ha, I spelled "mispellings" wrong) - And this is about Google.
​

Show the rest of the comments

EGOL

Do it just in case.
​

Jonah Stein

Google ignores them
​

Scottie Claiborne

Useless, IMO.
​

Eric Ward

buy cialis buy cialis buy cialis....ditto
​

Danny Sullivan

And, of course, only for Yahoo.
​

Neil Patel

A lot of search engines just ignore this tag.
​

Russ Jones

Almost no value, but two pages with gibberish for content, one with a real keyword in a meta keywords tag, the other without... The one with the keyword will rank above. Which weigh's more, an anvil, or an anvil with a feather?
​

Thomas Bindl

Could not see any influence in Google lately
​

Mike McDonald

I think some less sophisticated directories and possibly even a few search engines might still look at this tag - but not many- and the few that do likely don't give it a lot of weight (unless they're really dumb)
​

Ben Pfeiffer

Worthless. Even more worthless for misspellings.
​

Guillaume

Just so boring to fill simply for wacky engines that will bring 1 visitor every century.
​

Lucas Ng (aka shor)

On a similar note, it will also be interesting to see what, if anything, Google does with microformats.
​

Jill Whalen

Doesn't influence rankings at all in Google which doesn't index the information provided within it. Is fractionally weighted with Yahoo, but should only help if there are no other pages indexed that actually use the words in more important areas of the site.
​

Elisabeth Osmeloski

i do believe it is spot-checked for matching up with a page's content or other SEO elements.
​

Chris Boggs

Maybe somewhere other than Google.
​

Caveman

Probably more useful in finding spam than in ranking pages. We bother only because there's still a chance that they matter slightly. Sometimes we use them to mess with competition.
​

Todd Malicoat

Meh. This is so '98. If someone mentions writing all your keywords in meta tags you should probably run from them screaming "spammer" at the top of your lungs.
​

Rae Hoffman

I don't think this counts for anything these days, but I still always recommend they are included and include them on my own commercial sites... it's classification, can't hurt you and simply good practice.
​

Roger Montti aka martinibuster

Sometimes I wonder if having this tag in there might count against you, at least for a fraction of a point. If I were turning the knobs I'd make it worthy of raising at least one eyebrow on an algo cruncher somewhere.
​

And these are the so called experts of the SEO world .?

Earl

 

[seo_uk]

Hi Earl

Unfortunately this has gone far, far away from the orginal topic. But it is a valid point. It is hard to argue with guys that are considered SEO gods.

 

[newbie.soletrader]

@ Newbie.Soletrader : Moderating a "seo forum" ( how about a link) to some articles you wrote and some results you achieved is better than a passing remark

oh please, start pasting all that in forums and you are forever under attack from wannabe SEO's because you have told them they are wrong. feel free to visit the seo forum at www.webworkshop.net/seoforum/index.php and look for the the red headed mod, you can see what i posted there to make your 'assessment' everything else is mine and my clients business.

#2 on Yahoo.co.uk for "outsource web development india"
#5 on Yahoo.co.uk for "outsource web design india "
#7 on Google.co.uk for "invisionboard templates"
#6 on Google.co.uk for "header animations"
#12 on Yahoo.co.uk for "vbulletin templates"

i suggest you dont start posting 'what ranks i have achieved' unless they are in any way impressive. I'm afraid those aren't.

There are currently a measly 812 sites containing the term "header animations" and only 9 containing the term "invisionboard templates" in google.

Yahoo ranks are often achieved in an SEO's sleep (while working on Google). While some mom&pop sites can do 'ok' from yahoo traffic I dont give them a second thought. i actually dont even report on them when achieved because all i care about is targeted google traffic. I certainly wouldn't display yahoo ranks as a promotion of my abilities.

 

[garethparkin]

I agree in reality google is all that matters really when it boils down to it - our business turns over millions in the UK and we don't do anything other than google - no brochures, no mailers, no email marketing, no cold calling, no ads - nothing. Google is KING as far as I am concerned and years of effort in this has given us stacks of number 1 positions on top industry phrases. I think this thread is as seo-uk states getting a little out of hand - I am new to this forum and although fun to read the heated debates you are correct it could put people off as it appears a little imature - probably best if you all think of a new topic or log off this and get your heads down and concentrate on whats most important - generating new business!

 

[seo_uk]

I think this thread needs to be put to bed now.

Time to move onto a new subject.

 

[garethparkin]

OK - who wants to start then!!! - how about something relating to Social Media Optimisation - Offsite Optimising - Latent Sematic Linking Strategies - Article Marketing - Blog Marketing & Best Practice etc. etc. As I understand it these areas are just as important as onpage optimisation these days! - just a few ideas to kick start a bit of thought!