Hiring someone on a freelance basis to assist with admin?

[K0608]

Hi ,

I'm strongly considering hiring someone to help with my admin (dealing with enquiries, book keeping using Xero or Quick books, engaging and paying other freelance staff), on a freelance basis.

The nature of my work (running a mountaineering business) means that I would be looking for someone who has plenty of knowledge in the line of work I'm in. I was thinking that hiring someone for 2 hrs or so a day (some days more, some days less) would help reduce my workload significantly, and help me focus on the elements of the business that I actually enjoy. I don't have enough work to hire someone full-time, and not sure I want an employee.

Does this sound reasonable, and what sort of things should I/would I need to bear in mind, assuming I can find the right person for the job (perhaps a student on one of the local college's outdoor courses).

 

[Socio South West]

It's a perfectly reasonable thing to be doing - although I would aim rather higher than a student to get the best value for money if you want someone to really take the weight off your shoulders, Look for an experienced PA/VA type character and pay them a decent wage.

If they can work remote and home based, you would get someone fairly good for £15/hour, or maybe a bit less, who could really free you up to concentrate on doing the bits of the biz that you like doing.

Ask yourself how much specialist knowledge they actually need.... or can you retain those tasks that need specialist knowledge? Obviously the more you require them to know, the narrower the choice of people.
If they can work remote, that will broaden the choice of candidates available to you. A little investigation and investment in systems to allow someone to work remotely may pay good dividends.

I currently work for three very different companies remotely on the basis you describe, and submit a monthly timesheet to each for the hours I work. If you want to know more, please pm or email me.

 

[jf-financial]

Be careful of employment status also, some initial info below:

https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor

 

[Cube Digital]

I am not a fan now of this type of hiring. One person to do everything can sound great - you only have to manage one person.

Here is another thought: hire a bookkeeper for a few hours only one day a week and get everyone used to the idea that you pay on that one day each week. This person can look after bookkeeping and payments.

I think it could be easier then to find someone who is great with customers and has an interest in mountaineering or hill walking.

It would be an unhappy situation to get someone who is great with your customers, but makes a mess of the accounts - what do you do then?

Just a thought.

 

[K0608]

Thanks all for the replies. It was a local business gateway advisor that said I should consider a student, as:

a) they might not mind working bitty hours,

b) if they are enrolled on an outdoors based college course, they could well have a good grasp of the nature of my work and will understand the industry specific technical bits and bobs such as qualifications and difficulties/grades of certain itineraries

c) by choosing the right person, they will hopefully aspire to working for my business as a guide one day

d) they will be local

e) they will hopefully value the experience of working for a well established mountaineering company early in their career.

A book keeper would be useful, but I think the reality of if it is that there are only a few points in the year where we have a number of freelance guides working for us. A lot of the time it's me, and maybe one or two on any particular day, which is generally fairly easy for me to manage.

 

[Gecko001]

Freelancers are people who are fully trained and experienced in whatever service they offer and do not usually work for a single client. Are you sure you are wanting a "freelancer"?

 

[obscure]

Don't confuse "part-time" and "freelance". Just because you only want someone occasionally that doesn't mean they are freelance. The nature of/way they work will decide if they are freelance or an employee. You need to read the link posted above by jf-finacial so that you don't fall foul of the Inland Revenue.

 

[Socio South West]

Thanks all for the replies. It was a local business gateway advisor that said I should consider a student, as:......

My take on that is that if you can do it... you do it... If you cant, you either teach or become an advisor, and also that if you pay peanuts, you will get a monkey. I disagree strongly with the Advisor on the sort of person you need.

From what you say you want someone to free you from the book keeping, recruitment and payments... and not someone that you will probably need to supervise and that requires ongoing support and guidance after initial training. Also the description of the person from the Advisor suggests someone very short term whereas a good freelancer that enjoys the job is very likely to be there for the long haul and will get to know you and your business well.

As @jf-financial said, beware of employment status if you want to avoid a formal emplyment situation - The Freelancer needs to supply all their own equipment in terms of IT. You can supply the systems for them to work on: I have Slack, Pipedrive, Aircall, Xero and more installed on my machines but User Licences are paid for by the companies I do work for.
It is an advantage in this situation if the Freelancer has other engagements running to prove that they are genuinely self employed.
Gmail based email accounts are handy because anyone can look at the email any time to keep track of whats being said and sent.

It seems to me that the argument you have to satisfy is between a short term person with student knowledge of your business sphere but probably no admin, book keeping or payroll experience and someone with good admin experience, but probably limited knowledge of your specialism. Which do you need more?

 

[lazypbx]

Considering you're a small business (sounds like you're one person), If you're going to employ a student or someone 'local' my opinion is you should employ them as a part time, not as a freelancer. You should consider someone who can grow with your business with a view to taking them full time in the future. You will be investing in them and they will be investing in you. The risk is you may loose them later which will be difficult. It's obviously a big commitment and decision too.

However, if you just want to offload very specific tasks you should look to outsourcing. There is an advantage in being very specific, if you loose someone there's minimal impact on your business and less time is needed to get a replacement. If you want someone local for your books most accountants will offer booking services and freelance bookkeepers are pretty common. The hourly rate may be higher but the cost will be much lower because they will be experienced.

For phone calls there are many companies which offer real people to answer calls which may suit you (for the sake of transparency we don't provide that kind of service, so that's not a pitch). I understand you are a specialist company but you'll probably find a large percentage of your calls are general enquiries and the others you can schedule call backs which will be more efficient for you.

 

[tony84]

c) by choosing the right person, they will hopefully aspire to working for my business as a guide one day

I think you are mixing up a few jobs here. You want someone to do bits of admin, which can be messy for someone to come in on a more or less ad-hoc basis - it takes a special type of skill to be able to do that (I couldnt). And then possibly a guide down the line.

If you want a guide down the line, take on a guide.
If you want an administrator, take on an administrator.

You say freelance, presumably so you do not need to worry about employment law, tax, holidays etc etc. But then also part time. I think you are wanting a lot from someone, let alone a student.

Why not draw up a list of jobs, work out how many hours it will take them (not you) and then work out what you need. As someone else suggested, can you have a book keeper come in once a month and do the same bits every month.
An administrator who will do the same things each week?

Do you want them employed by you or do you want to outsource it.

It sounds like you are just merging lots of little bits into one job with no real job security (ie 10 hours a week, but could be less or more depending on how you see fit), no real job description (whatever crops up, they can have) and so on.

 

[estwig]

It was a local business gateway advisor that said I should consider a student

Idiots, don't listen to them!

I think your looking at this wrong, don't try and find a 'one size fits all' pair of hands, look for specific tasks you can outsource to specialists.
Some one can answer your phones remotely, mine answer in my company name and then follow a flow chart to ask and answer questions, taking contact details and a message if required. A bookkeeper, ask your accountant. I have remote cad operatives, you might need a booking service, or app. You might need a cleaner, a greeter, or someone to clean and maintain kit.

Look for specific tasks that if outsourced will free up your time, especially low skill level tasks, like bookkeeping, answering the phone and cleaning.

 

[Noah]

low skill level tasks, like bookkeeping

Your suggestion is sound - hope OP takes your advice. However, I disagree with this specific. Proper bookkeeping is definitely a job that requires knowledge and skill.

 

[estwig]

Your suggestion is sound - hope OP takes your advice. However, I disagree with this specific. Proper bookkeeping is definitely a job that requires knowledge and skill.

What counting beans?

Get away, my 3 year old Grandaughter can do it!

 

[Mr D]

What counting beans?

Get away, my 3 year old Grandaughter can do it!

So can Baldrick from Blackadder but I wouldn't suggest employing him as a bookkeeper.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

It sounds like you are just merging lots of little bits into one job with no real job security (ie 10 hours a week, but could be less or more depending on how you see fit), no real job description (whatever crops up, they can have) and so on.

I've known lots of people start as a general dogsbody doing a bit of everything and ended up making a real difference to the business.

 

[estwig]

So can Baldrick from Blackadder but I wouldn't suggest employing him as a bookkeeper.

Yes he can, any numpty can put a mark in a book, they even have columns to put the mark into!

 

[Noah]

What counting beans?

Get away, my 3 year old Grandaughter can do it!

Bloody nepotism. Got her on an apprenticeship have you? Bet she's eating some of those beans while you're not looking.

 

[estwig]

Bloody nepotism. Got her on an apprenticeship have you? Bet she's eating some of those beans while you're not looking.

One way or the other, she is eating my profit!

 

[Newchodge]

One way or the other, she is eating my profit!

That IS her job. It's in every 3 year old Grand daughter's job description. You really don't want to see what she will cost you when she's 16!

 

[estwig]

I have two daughters, cost certainly does go with the job description!

 

[tony84]

I've known lots of people start as a general dogsbody doing a bit of everything and ended up making a real difference to the business.

As do I, it does not mean it is the best way to go about it.
But at the minute the job could entail literally anything, the hours could be anything from 0 to over 10 and all for a student. I cant help but think this "job" is all very one sided and employee is getting the rough end of it.

 

[Dario.c]

Have you considered KPMG SBA?

 

[Jessica A.]

Try putting up a job post on job posting portals and see how many applications you get. Make sure to be as detailed as possible but not have it so long that job seekers will not read it. Onlinejobs is one job posting site where you can possibly post this kind of work.

 

[paulears]

Thanks all for the replies. It was a local business gateway advisor that said I should consider a student, as:

b) if they are enrolled on an outdoors based college course, they could well have a good grasp of the nature of my work and will understand the industry specific technical bits and bobs such as qualifications and difficulties/grades of certain itineraries

c) by choosing the right person, they will hopefully aspire to working for my business as a guide one day

e) they will hopefully value the experience of working for a well established mountaineering company early in their career.

The business gateway advisor clearly has not worked with students for very long - or is very sheltered.

I take on a couple of students each summer to increase the crew size in the theatre I run.

Some phrases above made me smile.

Good Grasp - really? Understand the industry specifics? Qualifications?

If they're nice and middle class they may have applied because mum thought it a good idea, and believes their child is far, far, better than they are. Some are truly terrible. Other are looking for something that isn't taking. As for valuing their time with you? One of mine is making the numbers up. He's accidentally lazy, and learns NOTHING. Yesterday he was being teased by the others because after sitting behind a followspot for 6 weeks, he still didn't know what make and model it was - nobody had told him, despite it being a black thing with the makers name and model in WHITE letters 50mm tall right in front of him, next to the power switch he had pushed every day. He still mixes stage left and right with real left and right. He is 20, and has a "passion for the industry" on paper. Aspirations are like a smoke machine - fluffy stuff in the air. I'll never have him back, but have been too nice to sack him. I know it's generalisation, but give a student a pile of boxes of all sizes on the back of a truck, and you see them looking for the smaller and lightest one first. Not all, but annoyingly common. You see the 50 year old with severe rheumatoid arthritis pick the biggest one. I am not anti-student, but every year the quality and usefulness has gone down and down because the really good ones are rare, and cherry pick what they want to do. You also might want to think about what private information you hold that they may chat about to their friends or possibly pass on when they go to uni or whatever.

I know I'm being negative - but this year I got the two new ones via facebook - thinking that only friends and friends of friends would see the posts and recommend people who would be good. Hence the comment on parents. I got one good one who has Asbergers, and once we realised that we needed to be precise in how we gave him instructions, he's been a great lad, and we'll have him back. The other's mother was gushing about how he does this and does that, when the reality is he has been to loads of decent places and stood in a corner waiting for people to run out of patience trying to engage an initiative he clearly does not have. Do you have the time to train the person? You will need to have them over your quantity requirement for quite a while before you can let them work on their own. Students are no longer on courses because they like them, like the industry or like doing work. They are on courses to generate funding for the colleges and universities.

 

[Rose Business Support]

As people have already pointed out, maybe look at a virtual assistant. We work remotely and on a pay as you go fee

 

[Jack Elever]

Don't confuse "part-time" and "freelance". Just because you only want someone occasionally that doesn't mean they are freelance. The nature of/way they work will decide if they are freelance or an employee. You need to read the link posted above by jf-finacial so that you don't fall foul of the Inland Revenue.

I agree. It looks like you're looking for a part-time worker, not a freelancer. Remember: a freelancer is someone to whom you're a client, not an employer. This means he/she'll have other clients and that he/she can get rid of you in every moment. I think you want something different, a stable contact.

I also agree that you should not hire someone to do 100 things. Hire someone to do one thing well, so you can stop worrying about it and concentrate on something else. There's no point in having someone doing 100 things not as good as you want them, so that you have to spend all your time micromanaging.

 

[K0608]

Thanks all for the replies, and apologies for not thanking you sooner. Having looked into it in quite a bit of depth today, mainly reading various articles and guidelines on-line, it sounds like it could be very tricky to convince HMRC or a tribunal that what I thought I wanted at first could be classified as self-employed. Therefore it looks like a zero-hours contract or part-time contract might be my best bet.

Having had a think, it's definitely the answering enquiries that takes up the most amount of my admin time, and the task I would most like to off-load.

 

[Noah]

Therefore it looks like a zero-hours contract or part-time contract might be my best bet.

Just a note : "zero hours contract" has a justifiably bad reputation, and isn't what you need anyway, from what you have written. I confess to not being familiar with the legalitiies (though we do employ people on variable part-time hours), and you should be able to commit to a minimum number of hours, greater than 0.

 

[K0608]

Just a note : "zero hours contract" has a justifiably bad reputation, and isn't what you need anyway, from what you have written. I confess to not being familiar with the legalitiies (though we do employ people on variable part-time hours), and you should be able to commit to a minimum number of hours, greater than 0.

Thanks for the reply and advice. I can certainly commit to 10 hours a week as a minimum.

 

[Newchodge]

Thanks for the reply and advice. I can certainly commit to 10 hours a week as a minimum.

Then offer a 10 hours part time contract, with the potential for overtime. Either overtime when offered to be compulsory (bit draconian) or by agreement.

 

[Mr D]

Just a note : "zero hours contract" has a justifiably bad reputation, and isn't what you need anyway, from what you have written. I confess to not being familiar with the legalitiies (though we do employ people on variable part-time hours), and you should be able to commit to a minimum number of hours, greater than 0.

And zero hours contracts work both ways - they can tell the employer they aren't available when the employer needs them.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I haven't read the thread, so may well be repeating advice here.

The service you are looking for generally comes under the banner of VA, or virtual Assistant - there are any number of these out there - many operating from home some as part of larger organisations.

As with anything, they will tend to have specialisms (though sadly many will try to promote themselves as doing everything. Take the time to find one who can demonstrate real experience in your field - also take the (paid) time to show them how you operate, just as you would with an employee.

Used wisely a VA can be invaluable to your business.

 

[K0608]

I haven't read the thread, so may well be repeating advice here.

The service you are looking for generally comes under the banner of VA, or virtual Assistant - there are any number of these out there - many operating from home some as part of larger organisations.

As with anything, they will tend to have specialisms (though sadly many will try to promote themselves as doing everything. Take the time to find one who can demonstrate real experience in your field - also take the (paid) time to show them how you operate, just as you would with an employee.

Used wisely a VA can be invaluable to your business.

Thanks for the advice. I had thought of a VA, but my main concern would be that many of the enquiries we get require an understanding of mountaineering, so as to best offer advice and suitable itineraries. It's the dealing with enquiries that takes up a large proportion of my admin time, which I would ideally like someone else to do.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Thanks for the advice. I had thought of a VA, but my main concern would be that many of the enquiries we get require an understanding of mountaineering, so as to best offer advice and suitable itineraries. It's the dealing with enquiries that takes up a large proportion of my admin time, which I would ideally like someone else to do.

There will almost certainly be VAs with some knowledge of mountaineering - in fact this is a great way to target your search!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Could you not write your route details a lot more advanced so that they are not asking questions in the first place but have all the information available to them on the website or brouchure

I understand your knowledge but do you really need someone else to have it, they could arrange for you to call back for specific information whilst still handling the day to day enquires

Just the ability to input accounts into the computer and deal with enquires and general office work, you may well find a local person who will grow with the firm and be a lot more dependable than any student

Also many 50 plus individuals who would welcome a part time job and have years of experience to offer

 

[Stefanie]

Hi there

I have done this before. I found the person (who ended up to be a group of virtual PA) via normal business networking. I used Jane Cattermole at Bay Free VA, but I am in Suffolk.

At the end of the day, the person may be remote and run their own company, but I found it best for them to be relatively local so I could also build a face-to-face relationship and ensure a high quality of work.

 

[estwig]

I had thought of a VA, but my main concern would be that many of the enquiries we get require an understanding of mountaineering, so as to best offer advice and suitable itineraries. It's the dealing with enquiries that takes up a large proportion of my admin time, which I would ideally like someone else to do.

I design loft conversions and house extensions and I used to get lots of enquiries that required an understanding of my specialty.

I recently narrowed my focus onto specific types of loft conversions and house extensions and invested heavily in a website to promote this. Now I don't get so many enquiries, as I get orders saying yes please I'd like one of those.

If your spending a lot of time dealing with enquiries and you feel this is not beneficial, don't look for a way to deal with it, maybe look for a way to stop it from happening in the first place.

 

[bodyjohn]

Remember Freelancers are specialists so you are aiming to find the "best fit". Outsourcing to freelancers like myself often saves money, provides effective support rapidly as we have our own systems established in our area of expertise.

Simple advice - look at the freelance networks, advertise there because you are more likely to recieve the support you need without the hiccups.

Also Virtual PA services often charge for the work they actually do which again can be cost effective, therefore there are more options in search process. "I can find the right person for the job (perhaps a student on one of the local college's outdoor courses)."

You can go for freelancers which is a good choice because there will be highly skilled and qualified freelancers available however, it might be costly for you.

 

[K0608]

I design loft conversions and house extensions and I used to get lots of enquiries that required an understanding of my specialty.

I recently narrowed my focus onto specific types of loft conversions and house extensions and invested heavily in a website to promote this. Now I don't get so many enquiries, as I get orders saying yes please I'd like one of those.

If your spending a lot of time dealing with enquiries and you feel this is not beneficial, don't look for a way to deal with it, maybe look for a way to stop it from happening in the first place.

Thanks for the reply, I've been thinking about putting more information on our service pages, or a good FAQ/knowledge base which would help answer some of the common questions that we receive.

As a side note, I've found a locally based admin/business support company, which I'm surprised even existed (I get the feeling it's just a one-person band), and am meeting up with them later this coming week to chat through how they might be able to help.