HGV Driver shortage

[WaveJumper]

Was I excused clothing in your vision?

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Just had this vision of you taking your test in a tank

Or a Chariot...!

 

[roydmoorian]

Just a thought, If you put a say a 2 ton loaded trailer on the back of a 3.5 ton limited trannie, does its weight count towards the 3.5 ton limit

FYI a 3.5 tonne van can carry between 800kg and 1500 kg depending on the unladen weight which is affected by the type of body.

To tow a trailer for hire & reward then the towing vehicle needs a tachograph and comes under HGV driving hours rules and needs to be registered with the traffic commissioners and used under an international operators licence.

Every vehicle has a Maximum Authorised Mass for towing and MUST conform to that.

 

[Clodbuster]

"A jet pilot who lost his job during lockdown when budget airline Flybe collapsed has revealed he earns more as a lorry driver in Britain's HGV crisis. "

Pay cannot be too shabby then.

 

[The Byre]

Flybe didn't have any jets!

 

[Clodbuster]

They certainly did not have piston aircraft either.

 

[Clodbuster]

 

[Mr D]

Just think, we apparently have a massive delivery problem now with 100,000 drivers needed.
What happens when Christmas staff would normally be taken on? What happens when stores need more deliveries, people buy more stuff online etc later in the year? When we need many thousands more delivery drivers with vans? When we need sorters, pickers, packers etc on minimum wage?

 

[The Byre]

They certainly did not have piston aircraft either.

In the last few years, they just had turbo-props. I flew with them often enough!

 

[alan1302]

"A jet pilot who lost his job during lockdown when budget airline Flybe collapsed has revealed he earns more as a lorry driver in Britain's HGV crisis. "

Pay cannot be too shabby then.

Maybe Flybe didn't pay well?

Expect a lot of HGV drivers are not on high wages though and any that are will be doing the maximum ammount of hours they legally can.

 

[Clodbuster]

In the last few years, they just had turbo-props. I flew with them often enough!

They had 8 jets and 54 turbo's (Which are jets anyway) when they went bang.
https://simpleflying.com/what-happened-to-flybes-aircraft/

 

[MBE2017]

In the last few years, they just had turbo-props. I flew with them often enough!

Was your pilot called Manfred Von Richthofen by any chance?

 

[The Byre]

My grandfather actually did fly with von Richthofen once!

 

[japancool]

My grandfather actually did fly with von Richthofen once!

Manfred, Lothar or Wolfram?

 

[Clodbuster]

If Waitrose can pay £50000 for a driver then the rest will have to sharpen their pencils.

 

[MC Wright]

My stepfather is 67 years old. He still drives a class 1 two days a week on behalf of an agency. I believe he passed his class 1 in the late seventies.

I can only speak on his behalf from working from a agency. No petrol allowance. Having to drive in his own car a hour and half away to the main base. And many times he has told me he has got to the depot at daft o clock in the morning only to be told he wasn't needed. Poor wages. I suppose when you couple the open road " no gaffers breathing down your neck" with limited lucrative revenue the job gives. There isn't much incentive to pursue it as a career

If you've got a wife, husband, partner, kids at home.its anti social. The HGV lifestyle is for the single person.i honestly believe that

 

[AW-UK]

All of the evidence points to the companies not wanting to shell out for a decent wage and basic expenses, which meant that the majority has been eastern Europeans doing the driving, now they have gone back we are in lumber.

The shortage affects everything, and because they are in high demand, I think it will be the highest paid wins.

Plus as it has been said it is not a very sociable job, I used to work at night driving from Bristol to Blackpool area sometimes further to Newcastle or Berwick way, and the amount of lorries you see (or used to!) at night is insane, and a lot of these do it day in day out (or night as it is), I did a 3 week stint and a handful of other occasions over 2 years and that was bad enough and that was in a fairly comfortable car with expenses paid, not HGV but it was still spend most of the morning / day asleep and come out at night, so you can understand people not wanting to do that kind of work.

 

[MC Wright]

Good points. Also roughly how much would a HGV course, theory test set you back these days.its a four figure sum I believe?

 

[roydmoorian]

Good points. Also roughly how much would a HGV course, theory test set you back these days.its a four figure sum I believe?

Likely a 4 figure sum where the first digit is not a 1 either .
By the time you factor in the lost earnings whilst you are in training plus the cost of the training and the cost of the test and maybe a re-rest ??

And then when you apply for a job they insist on you having experience

 

[japancool]

And then when you apply for a job they insist on you having experience

Well, they're not going to have a choice now.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Well, they're not going to have a choice now.

The wiser employers will offer training FOC.

Much like BA did with pilots in the 60s and 70s when they realised they were facing a shortage.

 

[Scottishgifts4u]

The wiser employers will offer training FOC.

Much like BA did with pilots in the 60s and 70s when they realised they were facing a shortage.

To be honest that should have been offered years ago in the same way that the building trade is now facing a shortage of tradesmen.

I dabbled in getting an HGV license years ago but back then you couldn’t get a job without experience. It’s a risk leaving an existing job, getting trained and then trying to get a foothold in.

But it’s easier and cheaper to employ someone fully trained, either from the U.K. or the EU. It all seems to make sense till it blows up in your face. Short term thinking at its best.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

When I worked for a major survey company, they offered everyone the right to further job related education on part time basis ONC/HNC and the like with full pay and courses Accommodation etc paid for buy the company, on condition you signed to stay at least two years on completion of the course. if you left earlier you paid them the course fee. It was a very happy company and many including myself took up the offer

 

[Clodbuster]

• Theory Test Part 1 – £26
• Theory Test Part 2 – £11
• CPC Certification – £23
• Driving Ability Test – £115 (weekdays) £141 (weekends)
• Practical Test – £55 (weekdays) £63 (weekends).
• 15 Hours driver instruction– £1,150

 

[Mr D]

My stepfather is 67 years old. He still drives a class 1 two days a week on behalf of an agency. I believe he passed his class 1 in the late seventies.

I can only speak on his behalf from working from a agency. No petrol allowance. Having to drive in his own car a hour and half away to the main base. And many times he has told me he has got to the depot at daft o clock in the morning only to be told he wasn't needed. Poor wages. I suppose when you couple the open road " no gaffers breathing down your neck" with limited lucrative revenue the job gives. There isn't much incentive to pursue it as a career

If you've got a wife, husband, partner, kids at home.its anti social. The HGV lifestyle is for the single person.i honestly believe that

Umm.... its pretty common for some decades now for workers to travel by their own means and at their own cost to their place of employment.

Being told not needed is bad administration. I wasn't surprised you mention agency, my wife's experience with agency working has been the same, though not driving job.

 

[Mr D]

The wiser employers will offer training FOC.

Much like BA did with pilots in the 60s and 70s when they realised they were facing a shortage.

The wise employer would have had the spare money to offer training FOC.
Or else needed to increase prices / reduce costs in order to be able to afford to offer training.

 

[Mr D]

To be honest that should have been offered years ago in the same way that the building trade is now facing a shortage of tradesmen.

I dabbled in getting an HGV license years ago but back then you couldn’t get a job without experience. It’s a risk leaving an existing job, getting trained and then trying to get a foothold in.

But it’s easier and cheaper to employ someone fully trained, either from the U.K. or the EU. It all seems to make sense till it blows up in your face. Short term thinking at its best.

Or there's the government minister response.
Telling firms to employ British workers to drive .....

Like its a solution they had not thought of. Pretty sure the majority of companies will have been trying to get any decent driver, regardless of nationality.

Just think of all this equipment sat around that will also - if not used on a rolling basis - need servicing before these 100,000 drivers can use them.


There's a couple of big companies with HGVs I pass on the bus, they don't appear to store these spare units on site. Multiple times there have been all but a couple of units out.

 

[MC Wright]

Umm.... its pretty common for some decades now for workers to travel by their own means and at their own cost to their place of employment.

Being told not needed is bad administration. I wasn't surprised you mention agency, my wife's experience with agency working has been the same, though not driving job.

I don't recall me saying it wasn't pretty common. I have worked for a agency in the past. I don't think in his case its the case of paying his own fuel allowance.its the hassle that comes with it for very little monetary reward.

My point is Getting up at the crack of dawn to drive an hour and half away to find your not wanted for the day is going to put many a people off. The odd time is a misunderstanding. But so many times in a week....

 

[roydmoorian]

It’s a well known fact that supermarkets have for decades put pressure on their produce suppliers to the extent than many have been squeezed until the pips squeak. They also use the same techniques on their hauliers hence the situation we find ourselves in at the moment with the added challenges of CV-19 and Brexit.

 

[AW-UK]

Surely, as all industries that use HGV, which I believe is most if not all, something will have to happen eventually but I guess the question would be how far are these companies willing to go before truly shooting themselves in the foot, the waste collection around my area is dire, the council have started issuing fines to the waste company for any missed collections (i.e. completely missed, not delayed by a day or so), can't see how that will help, just make the company go bust then we'll be in a sticky situation!

 

[Newchodge]

Surely, as all industries that use HGV, which I believe is most if not all, something will have to happen eventually but I guess the question would be how far are these companies willing to go before truly shooting themselves in the foot, the waste collection around my area is dire, the council have started issuing fines to the waste company for any missed collections (i.e. completely missed, not delayed by a day or so), can't see how that will help, just make the company go bust then we'll be in a sticky situation!

The council will simply bring the operation back in house. Do you not think it right that a contractor that fails to meet its contractual obligations should face contractual sanctions?

 

[AW-UK]

The council will simply bring the operation back in house. Do you not think it right that a contractor that fails to meet its contractual obligations should face contractual sanctions?

I do, but if there is a national shortage on HGV drivers then isn't the council going to be in the same boat?

I have seen both arguments of they should get fined for not providing a service they are paid for and the other side of you can't blame the contractor if there is a national shortage of drivers that is just one of the issues right now due to COVID and Brexit.

If it was just about pay or lack of recruitment accountability then i'd say go for it sue the pants off of them but if it is that genuinely there are no qualified HGV drivers and the company doesn't get paid enough to subsidise the cost of training etc then it could be a different view, but I don't know what the real issue is this time around.

My cousin used to drive big lorries for a brewery he quit to work on the roads (laying tarmac for the council) because it paid better.

Either way something has to be done, perhaps that will be on the next school curriculum, HGV driving.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Do you not think it right that a contractor that fails to meet its contractual obligations should face contractual sanctions?

Yes it is right but it depends on the contract.

In my area the bin men have been on strike for over a month, but a poorly written contract (which we are not allowed to see) has left the Local Authority with nowhere to go.

 

[Newchodge]

I do, but if there is a national shortage on HGV drivers then isn't the council going to be in the same boat?

I have seen both arguments of they should get fined for not providing a service they are paid for and the other side of you can't blame the contractor if there is a national shortage of drivers that is just one of the issues right now due to COVID and Brexit.

If it was just about pay or lack of recruitment accountability then i'd say go for it sue the pants off of them but if it is that genuinely there are no qualified HGV drivers and the company doesn't get paid enough to subsidise the cost of training etc then it could be a different view, but I don't know what the real issue is this time around.

My cousin used to drive big lorries for a brewery he quit to work on the roads (laying tarmac for the council) because it paid better.

Either way something has to be done, perhaps that will be on the next school curriculum, HGV driving.

The council pay rates for drivers are likely to be higher than other employers and the conditions are far better - no sleeping in the cab for instance, proper employment with paid holidays and sick pay, maximum 37 hour working week. They are more likely to be able to recruit than most employers.

 

[AW-UK]

The council pay rates for drivers are likely to be higher than other employers and the conditions are far better - no sleeping in the cab for instance, proper employment with paid holidays and sick pay, maximum 37 hour working week. They are more likely to be able to recruit than most employers.

If that is the case then maybe the council are better off bringing it back in house, as they are the one who are facing the complaints as they are the ones who collect the tax to pay for the services.

The councils are always subbing out services and it almost always seems to come back to bite them, you'd think that they would have learnt their lesson by now!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

On the internet you find that Deriver shortages are also major problems for Germany, France , Spain and the USA and one would guess many of the other western parts of the EU

see https://www.bifa.org/news/articles/...isis-now-spreading-across-the-whole-of-europe

 

[Newchodge]

If that is the case then maybe the council are better off bringing it back in house, as they are the one who are facing the complaints as they are the ones who collect the tax to pay for the services.

The councils are always subbing out services and it almost always seems to come back to bite them, you'd think that they would have learnt their lesson by now!

I used to work for the union UNISON, dealing mainly with local authorities. Outsourcing was always a big bone of contention. The refuse collectors seemed fairly happy with their position.

 

[AW-UK]

I used to work for the union UNISON, dealing mainly with local authorities. Outsourcing was always a big bone of contention. The refuse collectors seemed fairly happy with their position.

I'm willing to bet it is a different story now, as the remaining refuse collectors are at the front line of the public, who are less than happy when their bin collection is missed, I just take it down the local tip / recycling centre, but I can imagine some of the members of public give them a right roasting.

 

[IanSuth]

I'm willing to bet it is a different story now, as the remaining refuse collectors are at the front line of the public, who are less than happy when their bin collection is missed, I just take it down the local tip / recycling centre, but I can imagine some of the members of public give them a right roasting.

Around here the entire of waste is outsourced (RE3 is the Reading, Wokingham & Bracknell Forest company run by Veolia on behalf of the councils), taking it back in house would be a massive undertaking - you can only take stuff to the recycling centres with an appointment and a residence permit (introduced as West Berkshire which covers parts of Reading decided to stop contributing to RE3). I did some temp work on the bins when a student (i would literally do anything to earn cash back then), it is a horrible physical job (imagine a compactor blade splitting a bag of nappies that have been left out in the 80 degree heat), around here most of the collectors (and drivers) appear to be ex ghurka. The run a team of 3, 1 walking ahead to pile a streets rubbish & recycling together (we have branded blue plastic rubbish bags and recycling reusable bags not wheelie bins), 1 drives and 1 flings in.
I dont think they could work more efficiently so a return to council control would mean extra costs and thus extra council tax - the reason for a lot of the outsourcing was to get away from council pay scales etc.
I think the gov are starting to realise that a lot of their decisions are going to fuel some big inflationary pressures

 

[AW-UK]

Around here the entire of waste is outsourced (RE3 is the Reading, Wokingham & Bracknell Forest company run by Veolia on behalf of the councils), taking it back in house would be a massive undertaking - you can only take stuff to the recycling centres with an appointment and a residence permit (introduced as West Berkshire which covers parts of Reading decided to stop contributing to RE3). I did some temp work on the bins when a student (i would literally do anything to earn cash back then), it is a horrible physical job (imagine a compactor blade splitting a bag of nappies that have been left out in the 80 degree heat), around here most of the collectors (and drivers) appear to be ex ghurka. The run a team of 3, 1 walking ahead to pile a streets rubbish & recycling together (we have branded blue plastic rubbish bags and recycling reusable bags not wheelie bins), 1 drives and 1 flings in.
I dont think they could work more efficiently so a return to council control would mean extra costs and thus extra council tax - the reason for a lot of the outsourcing was to get away from council pay scales etc.
I think the gov are starting to realise that a lot of their decisions are going to fuel some big inflationary pressures

Oh, wow, you need a permit to take waste to the tip?
We just take ours down general waste goes into the skip labelled general waste and recycling goes into the big banks provided for plastic, glass, tins / cans and paper / card. There is also a clothes recycling bank that you are also free to just put your unwanted stuff into.

Our recycling centre also has an upcycling outlet where they pull things out that people have dumped like old chairs etc and sell them on for restoration, they make a tidy sum of money off of that!