HGV Driver shortage

[John Hemming]

One of my student jobs was as a van driver. I quite liked it (delivering stationery to schools), but I carried too much and did my back in. It did, however, have more independence than other jobs I had had. Oddly enough for one week I was the night cook at the local hospital. I am no good at cooking, but they liked the fact I could handle the cash register. When I was at University I made some reasonably good part time money from being one of the few students who then (in 1979) could type and use an IBM typesetter.

After a couple of years working as a coder I went self-employed although strictly I was on PAYE as an elected official although that has an interesting mix of management heirarchies. Generally, however, from 1983 in the private sector I have been the boss.

 

[Scottishgifts4u]

My late FiL was a lorry driver and I remember him complaining 30 years ago that they were treated like second class citizens so not a lot has changed.

I think the haulage companies have been their own worst enemies for years. I had a brief dalliance with lorries years ago but one of the sticking points at the time was you couldn’t get a job without experience and obviously you couldn’t get experience unless you had a job.

Why pay hundreds for training and test with no guarantee that you’d even get in the door.

Start them young and train them up is the way to fill the gap. Experienced drivers don’t magically appear.

 

[IanSuth]

My late FiL was a lorry driver and I remember him complaining 30 years ago that they were treated like second class citizens so not a lot has changed.

I think the haulage companies have been their own worst enemies for years. I had a brief dalliance with lorries years ago but one of the sticking points at the time was you couldn’t get a job without experience and obviously you couldn’t get experience unless you had a job.

Why pay hundreds for training and test with no guarantee that you’d even get in the door.

Start them young and train them up is the way to fill the gap. Experienced drivers don’t magically appear.

Which is why a standard route into HGV used to be the military

 

[Deleted member 59730]

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwall-needs-train-drivers-salary-5739376

 

[Ozzy]

Now McDonalds has run out of milkshakes and Nandos has run out of chicken...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58315152

I did chuckle at some stories pointing to one issue being there isn't enough women in the industry, not sure where that narrative came from

 

[OMGVape]

I was taking to my courier guy about the shortage. One firm he collects from normally has 30 HGV drivers but 12 have quit in the last two weeks. They are now agency drivers earning ‘loads a money’.

 

[Martin Patfield]

Yup, also hearing from our various logistics partners that their lorry drivers are leaving to follow the money where the likes of the supermarkets are offering a signing up fee plus better wages.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwall-needs-train-drivers-salary-5739376

The worrying part being that £60k is 3 times the average salary!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

At least they can buy a house in Cornwall

 

[IanSuth]

At least they can buy a house in Cornwall

Not for long - some of the fastest house price rises in the country. Also saw a story that Falmouth/Penryn Uni is struggling to accommodate students as all the student digs have become Air B&B or 2nd homes

 

[thetiger2015]

Not for long - some of the fastest house price rises in the country. Also saw a story that Falmouth/Penryn Uni is struggling to accommodate students as all the student digs have become Air B&B or 2nd homes

You couldn't make it up...

They're building more houses, claiming it's for 'first time buyers' but they're being snapped up as holiday lets. Houses prices don't even seem real anymore.

Internet businesses might be getting battered soon. HGV drivers shifting over to supermarkets isn't a good sign, it's going to leave shortages across the rest of the network. Food will be prioritised.

They tried blaming it on the "pingdemic" for weeks....wasn't anything to do with that though was it...

 

[WaveJumper]

The boss of supermarket Iceland says the supply chain chaos is getting worse, just as retailers start planning for the key Christmas period.

Richard Walker told the BBC he estimated the UK's shortage of lorry drivers was now about 100,000, with the company itself about 100 short.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58329439

Better get out there and stock up on mince pies now

 

[MBE2017]

It can all be sorted out by sensible wages, it’s not that big a problem in the scheme of things.

I am helping a company out with some part time weekend driving on the weekends, £18 hr for a small van, clearing £150 each weekend. When you realise these HGV guys, some are on £10 hr or less, no wonder they struggle.

 

[The Byre]

We are seeing the first signs of high inflation - and before anyone says anything, the CPI is by its very structure good, old-fashioned rigged! According to Professor Steve Hanke, 'official' inflation in the US will go to 9% this year and Shadow Stats puts it at 13.5% NOW.

That 9% is already baked into the system. Even if the US Fed or the government were to stop creating money right now, that 9% has to happen - and that is using the official CPI.

Prices in the supermarkets are going up. That is the reality. And they are going up fast. Faster than this government or the BoE can either deal with or ignore.

When central banks create money, the first step in the inflationary process is asset-price inflation, i.e. houses, followed by other assets such as share prices. This pushes the less-well-paid out of being able to afford a house. Then comes wage-push inflation as fewer people are prepared to accept low-paid jobs. Some supermarkets now offer an across the board 10% above-average wage to staff and in the long run, this has to be reflected in prices.

Brexit and the C19 crisis have exacerbated and accelerated a process that was always going to happen sooner or later. I am surprised that it has taken this long - I have been shouting this message since 2000.

In 2000 I bought a large property with 20 acres of grounds for next-to-nothing. This was to be our little island in a sea of madness with the possibility of self-sufficiency if things get really bad and society collapses. That was as good as things were ever going to get. Since then, banks and governments have been creating money and creating debt.

Now they are sharpening their knives to come after your pensions - and they'll get them! One way or another, private or state, that sucker was always based on lies. In Germany, they are now being taxed. In the US, there are moves to make all property taxable at very high rates after the age of 65. In the UK, they'll just inflate the value to nothing for the private pensions and take off the triple lock on state pensions.

Extreme social unrest here and elsewhere is just a matter of time.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Not for long - some of the fastest house price rises in the country. Also saw a story that Falmouth/Penryn Uni is struggling to accommodate students as all the student digs have become Air B&B or 2nd homes

Excellent news for fishermen - they can sell up and retire...

 

[Newchodge]

Excellent news for fishermen - they can sell up and retire...

Where will they live?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Where will they live?

London. It's dirt cheap there.

 

[Newchodge]

I was taking to my courier guy about the shortage. One firm he collects from normally has 30 HGV drivers but 12 have quit in the last two weeks. They are now agency drivers earning ‘loads a money’.

Perhaps they should have treated their employees better?

 

[IanSuth]

Perhaps they should have treated their employees better?

Why, they all know they can go agency now and make hay whilst the sun shines then go back to permanent employment if things change (if they time it right taking a sign on bonus whilst they are at it)

 

[DontAsk]

I have been shouting this message since 2000.

Perhaps it's time to stop shouting.

take off the triple lock on state pensions.

Excellent idea.

 

[AllUpHere]

It can all be sorted out by sensible wages, it’s not that big a problem in the scheme of things.

I am helping a company out with some part time weekend driving on the weekends, £18 hr for a small van, clearing £150 each weekend. When you realise these HGV guys, some are on £10 hr or less, no wonder they struggle.

This post perfectly demonstrates one of the problems the industry has. An anonymous member of a forum needs to tell us (people he doesn't even know) that he is doing a company a favour doing some driving work, rather than simply admit he's a part time van driver.

 

[Mr D]

Can anyone suggest why there may be a shortage of HGV drivers and suggest ways of dealing with the issue (if the issue exists)?

OK we get told there's a shortage of drivers.
If 100,000 people stepped up tomorrow and passed their test - what then?
Are there 100,000 tractor units standing idle? Is there sufficient work to keep 100,000 drivers busy beyond a couple of months?
Yes, we need a lot now and there's likely going to be considerable amount of work at the moment - but will there continue to be?
Or is it 100,000 drivers needed now and 50,000 needed in 5 month's time instead?

This high employment / low unemployment issue appears to be adding to the problem. Heck, even my missus is thinking of retraining as HGV driver. The reasonable adjustments necessary would be expensive.... but possible.

 

[Mr D]

If you want people to move 40-ton trucks day and night, get up at three in the morning to drive hundreds of miles - and carry all the responsibility that entails - you have to treat them decently and pay them properly. €30,000 or £25k doesn't cut it anymore. It ain't even close! You ain't even in the ballpark!

And yet it appears there are quite a number of truckers who will work for that wage. Because they are working for that wage!
Sure, they could probably do with a pay rise. Who couldn't? But will the company they work for be able to afford it? Company has income from its sales, if it puts prices up to pay extra to drivers they are happier - but can company make enough extra in sales to cover the extra cost it has to pay out?
Or will it simply have less profit / less of a cushion to deal with say replacing ageing tractor units / unexpected problems?

 

[WaveJumper]

It’s an interesting issue when you balance this against what I feel is the bigger problem and that’s actually getting goods into the UK in the first place. I just wonder if the HGV issue, which has been around for a long time now is being used as a bit of a diversion to take our mind of the real reason goods are not on the shelf and the ridiculous shipping rates companies are having to stomach

 

[MBE2017]

This post perfectly demonstrates one of the problems the industry has. An anonymous member of a forum needs to tell us (people he doesn't even know) that he is doing a company a favour doing some driving work, rather than simply admit he's a part time van driver.

I don’t consider myself a part time driver, just as you don’t consider yourself an employed marketing consultant, I’m just helping a friend out temporarily. Thanks for taking such an interest in my employment status, though what my status supposedly says about a driver shortage on HGV’s is beyond myself, the forum is lucky to have your insightful conclusions.

My main income comes from used car sales, just in case you wish to draw more conclusions. Being retired from my previous roles, I now do things for fun, to relieve boredom, money is not my motivator these days. That said,nothing wrong with part time workers, or even part time drivers to my knowledge.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I often wonder how many of the people who suggest higher wages are the answer will complain when prices go up to support them.

As I see it, we - the consumer - are a big part of the problem with the relentless desire for lower prices and faster delivery we are completely undermining the established supply and delivery mechanisms.

This also applies to the problems in the hospitality sector.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

As I see it, we - the consumer - are a big part of the problem with the relentless desire for lower prices and faster delivery we are completely undermining the established supply and delivery mechanisms.

Is it the consumer...?

Or is it the retailers who continually offer discounts as their only reason to buy from them...? And therefore training the consumer to be price conscious above all...

 

[Mark T Jones]

Is it the consumer...?

Or is it the retailers who continually offer discounts as their only reason to buy from them...? And therefore training the consumer to be price conscious above all...

It's a cycle.

In order to break the cycle, people need to do something other than blaming the other party or telling us what 'they' should do.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Farmers often quote milk prices are to low, but i have never brought milk based on price just convenience same for the basic other food prices, use one major supermarket and pay the days price. if milk one week went up 50p i would still buy it but if all the regular prices also went up i would look at other supermarkets to see if any savings. used to use Sainsbury's but a few years ago they reduced choice n beat and pushed clothing etc so moved to Tesco and Lidl but Lidl whilst far cheaper had to many customers after corvid so now shop online at Tesco

 

[roydmoorian]

Farmers often quote milk prices are to low, but i have never brought milk based on price just convenience same for the basic other food prices, use one major supermarket and pay the days price. if milk one week went up 50p i would still buy it but if all the regular prices also went up i would look at other supermarkets to see if any savings. used to use Sainsbury's but a few years ago they reduced choice n beat and pushed clothing etc so moved to Tesco and Lidl but Lidl whilst far cheaper had to many customers after corvid so now shop online at Tesco

I used to have a herd of 90 dairy cows, began processing and bottling liquid milk and built up to 5 doorstep delivery milk rounds - Believe me the majority of customers do consider price when deciding where to buy a KVI.
Incidentally I now buy “Organic” milk ‘cos it is the first through the plant after sanitizing and keeps better.
The farmer typically receives the same per litre today as in 1997. Fact.

 

[The Byre]

As I see it, we - the consumer - are a big part of the problem with the relentless desire for lower prices and faster delivery we are completely undermining the established supply and delivery mechanisms.

Hmmmm . . . I have my doubts here. Yes, that is partially true for some people, BUT there is one giant elephant in the room. Well, two elephants really - Aldi and Lidl.

Aldi and Lidl pay more than the other supermarkets, yet are labeled 'discounters'. They are cheaper than Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury and the rest. Yet they pay 10% more to their staff including drivers.

Not only that, but they pay smaller suppliers within 30 days of delivery, the average debt burden (I have heard - not verified) is just half a million per outlet in the UK and they own nearly all the shops they use, no sale and lease-back there.

The UK chains are loaded with debt.

The conventional supermarket business model of having 24 different olive oils and 17 types of mustard in a store with 32 check-outs, rented shelf-space, a hairdresser, a photographer and a flower shop all manned by people on minimum wage is probably the root cause. Add to that mish-mash a chaotic supply chain where many suppliers have to deliver to every shop they want to get into and every shop loaded with debt and the building is owned by a different company and every supplier pushed to the limit on both price and conditions of sale and returns - and you have a perfect recipe for higher prices and poor working conditions.

Tesco is a magnificent example of inefficiencies caused by this type of debt-addled business model. The debt-to-equity in 2016 was an eye-watering 238%. By squeezing staff and suppliers until the pips squeaked, they have today managed to get that huge £14bn debt burden down to £7bn - just 60% D-2-E.

And the conventional supermarkets are all publically listed companies.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Hmmmm . . . I have my doubts here. Yes, that is partially true for some people, BUT there is one giant elephant in the room. Well, two elephants really - Aldi and Lidl.

Aldi and Lidl pay more than the other supermarkets, yet are labeled 'discounters'. They are cheaper than Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury and the rest. Yet they pay 10% more to their staff including drivers.

Not only that, but they pay smaller suppliers within 30 days of delivery, the average debt burden (I have heard - not verified) is just half a million per outlet in the UK and they own nearly all the shops they use, no sale and lease-back there.

The UK chains are loaded with debt.

The conventional supermarket business model of having 24 different olive oils and 17 types of mustard in a store with 32 check-outs, rented shelf-space, a hairdresser, a photographer and a flower shop all manned by people on minimum wage is probably the root cause. Add to that mish-mash a chaotic supply chain where many suppliers have to deliver to every shop they want to get into and every shop loaded with debt and the building is owned by a different company and every supplier pushed to the limit on both price and conditions of sale and returns - and you have a perfect recipe for higher prices and poor working conditions.

Tesco is a magnificent example of inefficiencies caused by this type of debt-addled business model. The debt-to-equity in 2016 was an eye-watering 238%. By squeezing staff and suppliers until the pips squeaked, they have today managed to get that huge £14bn debt burden down to £7bn - just 60% D-2-E.

And the conventional supermarkets are all publically listed companies.

As ever, it's not a clear cut binary equation

Also & Lidl use super-lean operating models, part of which is minimal headcount. If the big 3 (or whatever) were to go thus route, the first thing we would see is huge redundancies, and people would be up in arms about how 'they' should do something about it.

A related note - when a big supermarket turns up in town, they create a big fanfare about how many jobs they will create reality is that even non-lean supermarkets employ 1/3 of the staff per £1 spent that an independent - so the true outcome is a rise in unemployment.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58339182

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Just a thought, If you put a say a 2 ton loaded trailer on the back of a 3.5 ton limited trannie, does its weight count towards the 3.5 ton limit

 

[The Byre]

What 3.5-ton limit?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I though there was a 3.5 ton limit on a normal non HGV licence

 

[WaveJumper]

Licences issued before 1 January 1997
If you passed your car test before 1 January 1997 you’re usually allowed to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8,250kg MAM

Licences issued from 1 January 1997
If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can:

*drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kgMAM
*tow a trailer over 750kgMAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

 

[The Byre]

There is, but I did my license in 49BC so I can go to 12 tons with trailer - my German HGV license has long since expired. The German C1 is for life, but not here, as I am now too old and regarded as a danger to shipping in open waters.

 

[WaveJumper]

There is, but I did my license in 49BC so I can go to 12 tons with trailer - my German HGV license has long since expired. The German C1 is for life, but not here, as I am now too old and regarded as a danger to shipping in open waters.

Just had this vision of you taking your test in a tank

 

[The Byre]

Was I excused clothing in your vision?