Have HR got this simple holiday calculation wrong?

[nicebloke]

Hey all,

I have what should be a very simple statutory holiday allowance calculation that seemingly nobody can agree on! The employee in question works the following pattern:

Mon: 8am to 1pm
Tue: 8am to 1pm
Wed: 8am to 1pm
Thurs: 8am to 1pm

So, 20 hrs per week part time, working 4 days. The hours don't typically change.

Just about every online calculator comes back with 5.6 x 4 days = 22.4 days allowance. But then you see other info online that says you should use an equivalence model for half days, so 5.6 x 2days = 11.2 days.

If you do it on hours you get 5.6 x 20 = 112hrs. Because the employee work 5 hours per day, that again comes back at 22.4 days which backs up the 4 working day pattern, but HR are insisting it should be 11.2days. Who is correct?

 

[Newchodge]

The law is simple. 5.6 weeks. A week is 4 days, so 22.4 days. A week is 20 hours so 5.6*20= 112 hours. Or simply 5,6 weeks.

No other answer is legal.

I haven't the faintest idea what "But then you see other info online that says you should use an equivalence model for half days, so 5.6 x 2days = 11.2 days." means. Never heard of it in more than 30 years working in HR. Where did you find it?

 

[Ziggy2024]

If you're working set hours then it is simple. It's only irregular hours that can become complicated with holiday pay.

HR are incorrect here unless there is some information we are missing.

 

[Newchodge]

I would suggest the employee speaks to the ACAS early conciliation service to start a claim for part time worker discrimination, as the part timer is getting half the rate of holiday as the full timer. I would expect that a quick word from ACAS will sort out HR over this, but I would be sorried about any other decision they make!

 

[nicebloke]

Thanks for replies all. I do agree with everyone on here.

I think HR maybe have looked at info like at the bottom of this table...

" if someone works two half-days, that would total one day, and therefore their annual leave entitlement would be 5.6 days over the year."
This is from the website here... https://www.moorepay.co.uk/holiday-entitlement-part-time-calculator/

Examples of statutory annual leave entitlement for part-time workers, based on number of days worked a week​

Part-timer’s working week	Calculation	Statutory annual entitlement
One day a week	5.6 x 1 = 5.6	5.6 days
One-and-a-half days	5.6 x 1.5 = 8.4	8.4 days
Two days	5.6 x 2 = 11.2	11.2 days
Two-and-a-half days (half a week)	5.6 x 2.5 = 14	14 days
Three days	5.6 x 3 = 16.8	16.8 days
Four days	5.6 x 4 = 22.4	22.4 days

Please note, the above days include equivalents. For example, if someone works two half-days, that would total one day, and therefore their annual leave entitlement would be 5.6 days over the year.

 

[Newchodge]

Thanks for replies all. I do agree with everyone on here.

I think HR maybe have looked at info like at the bottom of this table...

" if someone works two half-days, that would total one day, and therefore their annual leave entitlement would be 5.6 days over the year."
This is from the website here... https://www.moorepay.co.uk/holiday-entitlement-part-time-calculator/

Examples of statutory annual leave entitlement for part-time workers, based on number of days worked a week​

Part-timer’s working week	Calculation	Statutory annual entitlement
One day a week	5.6 x 1 = 5.6	5.6 days
One-and-a-half days	5.6 x 1.5 = 8.4	8.4 days
Two days	5.6 x 2 = 11.2	11.2 days
Two-and-a-half days (half a week)	5.6 x 2.5 = 14	14 days
Three days	5.6 x 3 = 16.8	16.8 days
Four days	5.6 x 4 = 22.4	22.4 days

Please note, the above days include equivalents. For example, if someone works two half-days, that would total one day, and therefore their annual leave entitlement would be 5.6 days over the year.

What a ridiculously convoluted way of describing something that is bog simple. However HR are even more stupid as it does not state anywhere that working 4 'half days' in a week = 2 days. If they worked 2 5 hour days and 2 2.5 hour days, they would have worked 3 'days' but there is absolutely no need to do that calculation. The law is 5.6 weeks. A week (here) is 4 days or 20 hours. Simple.

 

[nicebloke]

Convoluted is one thing, but is that table factually correct?

 

[Newchodge]

Convoluted is one thing, but is that table factually correct?

It's a nonsense because 'day' has no absolute meaning. In your case 'day' means 5 hours so, if someone works 2 days @ 5 hours and 1 day @ 2.5 hours you could say they work 2.5 days. But you cannot apply it to some undefined and notional day length and say that 5 hours is a half day, as your HR has done.

The point is it is open to misunderstanding and is unnecessary.

 

[Bobbo]

I can see the HR dept's thought process, assuming that at this workplace a normal working day is 8-6. I agree it is a stupid way of thinking about it.

If HR consider that the 8am-1pm shift constitutes a half day, then they would surely agree that taking a week off would be four half days, i.e. two days leaving 9.2 days of holiday remaining. If that is the way they are thinking about it then the employee isn't losing holiday but it isn't very clear for them how much allowance they have.

 

[Newchodge]

I can see the HR dept's thought process, assuming that at this workplace a normal working day is 8-6. I agree it is a stupid way of thinking about it.

If HR consider that the 8am-1pm shift constitutes a half day, then they would surely agree that taking a week off would be four half days, i.e. two days leaving 9.2 days of holiday remaining. If that is the way they are thinking about it then the employee isn't losing holiday but it isn't very clear for them how much allowance they have.

Except, even using that logic, a 5 hour half day would mean at least a minimum 10 hours 20 minutes full day, assuming the 5 hours does not have a break and the 10 hours has the legal 20 minute break.

 

[Bobbo]

Except, even using that logic, a 5 hour half day would mean at least a minimum 10 hours 20 minutes full day, assuming the 5 hours does not have a break and the 10 hours has the legal 20 minute break.

I was avoiding looking at it that closely - but fully agree.

 

[nicebloke]

UPDATE:

New response from HR.... It's the part that is underlined that I disagree with (and probably most people on here). Do we have a case for taking this to ACAS?

Calculating annual leave for part-time employees can be a bit tricky, but here's a straightforward method:

1. Determine the Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) Leave Entitlement: Full-time employees are typically entitled to 5.6 weeks (28 days) of annual leave per year.
2. Calculate the Pro-Rata Entitlement: Since part-time employees work fewer days, their leave entitlement is calculated on a pro-rata basis. Multiply the number of days they work per week by the full-time entitlement (5.6 weeks).

For example, if an employee works 4 days a week:

4 days/week×5.6 weeks=22.4 days/year4 days/week×5.6 weeks=22.4 days/year

1. Adjust for Shorter Days: If the part-time employee works shorter days than full-time employees, you need to adjust the leave entitlement accordingly. Calculate the total hours they work per week and compare it to the full-time hours.

For instance, if a full-time employee works 40 hours a week and the part-time employee works 32 hours a week:

32 hours40 hours=0.840 hours32 hours=0.8

Multiply the pro-rata leave entitlement by this fraction:

22.4 days×0.8=17.92 days/year22.4 days×0.8=17.92 days/year

1. Round Up: It's common practice to round up to the nearest half or whole day, so the part-time employee would be entitled to 18 days of annual leave per year

 

[fisicx]

That’s still wrong.

There is no need to adjust anything.

Holiday is measured in days not hours.

 

[nicebloke]

I agree. If you take it to the extreme and consider an example of a person working 1 hour a day from Mon-Fri, HR are saying they are only entitled to 3.5 days whereas I think most people on here would say it is 28 days. The adjustment for shorter days just should not apply in my eyes.

Of course, if the answer is 28 hrs then that's fine as it equates to 28 days on their working pattern anyway!

 

[Ziggy2024]

100% incorrect. You can calculate in hours or days, not a combination of both.

 

[fisicx]

The number of hours you work is irrelevant. If you put in for leave and ask for a day off then you don't work that day. It doesn't matter if the working day was 4, 8 or 12 hours.

I think your HR department needs reporting as they are in deep doo doo.

 

[Newchodge]

I think your HR department needs replacing as they are in deep doo doo.

There, I have fixed it for you. Who can you report HR to?

I still suggest a call to ACAS early conciliation, from an affected employee, or from management to ACAS advice is urgently required.

 

[nicebloke]

I will let you know the outcome!