Hamilton forbes or Barrington House Publishing - scam maybe?

[Magsite]

From www.vwdforum.co.uk

Hi All,

A few months ago I recieved a phone call from a company called Hamilton forbes, offering me some advertising space on a charity calender. They sound very proffesional, and i thought it was geniune. However i said No, this would be of no interest to me.

Nothing for a few months.

Then this morning, a phone call from them, wanting PAYMENT for an advert I placed with them in there charity calender. When I said I said no they kept talking rubbish, and after a while of me saying NO, they just hung up.

Further research into them, indicates that they were orginally a company called Barrington House Publishing. Barrington House changed their name to Hamilton Forbes due to administration. Barrington house publishing has been known for ripping off networkers.

Here is a link to a review place

http://www.blagger.com/db4/company_id/3616/companyname/Hamilton-Forbes.html

Please be careful, when placing advertising.

All the best

Dave

Just seen this, has anyone dealt with this company before?

Lisa

 

[Alpha]

Had a client who signed up for a calender advert before I became involved in helping him.

Second year he politely told them that he wasnt interested and after a heated exchange was told to go forth and multiply.

The only problem was that the caller didnt bar his telephone number and my client called back and told him what he would get if he ever called again

 

[autolycus]

Don't think I have come across this particular outfit before, but this sort of model is a fairly well-known scam.

It relies on the target company having more than one employee and poor internal communications.

Basically, they ring accounts, tell them the ad was authorised by someone a few months before, and now payment is due. The only time someone tried this on me was a few years ago and they disappeared quite fast when I told them I was the only employee so I knew they were talking s**t.

The "charity" aspect is a subtle twist on the basic theme, presumably to make you feel more guilty if you don't pay up.

Another variation is the calendar produced by the local police - they tend to target driving instructors and others involved in road safety etc.

Dave.

 

[Sarah-Ink Promotions]

A company called Barrington Publishing called me yesterday asking me to advertise on a charity wall calender - i said No so I hope thats the last I hear from them!!

 

I'm sure these people rang me last year and I nearly agreed to advertise (I was a bit of a newbie back then!)

Looks like I got away lightly!

 

[Deleted member 5685]

I believe I can say what is freely available information on the internet - that Hamilton Forbes Publishing used to be known as Barrington House Publishing. Google reveals quite a lot of information surrounding Barrington.

Also, if anyone is getting harassed for payment for something you did not agree to - despite them trying to say you did agree to it, taped your call etc. etc. etc. (get the picture?) keep strong and not pay them!

Thats my bit of friendly advice...

 

[Rachael]

Like Claire, I got called last year from a company like the above and I said I needed to think about it. I then got a load of paperwork through asking me for my logo etc and wanting me to send payment.

I didn't and haven'y heard from them again.

 

[Plastics Dave]

I get the same call every year from a "Heavy" who assures me I advertised in the Fire Brigade calender last year and or the schools against drugs calendar, unfortunately my good lady may have done this without my knowledge. Anyway...when I say no, get stuffed invariably they ring again and again in the hope that they will get her and not me. I have told her, I will encourage her to read this thread...I don't think it will happen again !!
regards
Dave

 

[Rob Holmes]

I had the same from a northern guy calling to take donations for the army abroad to give them a better life.

Year 1 I sent them £20 in return for a diary that never arrived - 2 years running I turned them away and this year I changed numbers when I switched offices so haven't heard from them again.

IMHO - a scam.

Rob

 

[Faulty Towers]

We had a similair incident at my wifes hairdresing salon.
Someone rang asking what the invoice address was so that they could send us a bill for an advert within a local drugs awarness leaflet. My wife did not know anything about it so she asked them to ring me at work, they said my wife had agreed to the advert and again asked for the invoice address to send us a bill for £175!! I politely told them we always discuss any expenditure together and no one acts independently and I would not be paying the bill. They then rang my wife at the salon telling her that I had just agreed to the advert and that she should give them the invoice address. Luckily my wife rang me back to confirm this and I said I never said such a thing - I was absolutely blazing mad.

Dave

 

Perhaps we should call them and say

thankyou for kindly agreeing to donate money to UKBF members pamper/pub/lunch/holiday fund, please give me your invoice address so we can forward our bill. Please also pass our thanks onto your grandmother who kindly agreed to the £3000 donation in your absence!

Please also accept this free, yes free - Chamber of Commerce desk diary with best wishes from Crossguard.

 

[Plastics Dave]

I should have told you what I do now.. I ask them if they can take a credit card payment over the phone, invariably they say yes... I then say I have left my card in the car and ask them if they can hold on while I go and fetch it ,,, and of course they hold and hold and hold and I simply ignore them after all they are paying for the call. It seems to be working because I am getting less calls this year.
Dave

 

[Coding Monkey]

I should have told you what I do now.. I ask them if they can take a credit card payment over the phone, invariably they say yes... I then say I have left my card in the car and ask them if they can hold on while I go and fetch it ,,, and of course they hold and hold and hold and I simply ignore them after all they are paying for the call. It seems to be working because I am getting less calls this year.
Dave

A friend of mine does something similar at the general election. When a party he doesn't support knocks on the door, he holds them up for as long as possible so they don't have time to visit anyone else. Works well.

 

[fastfences]

HF rang me 3 times last week for their Children with Cancer Calendar. I didn't purchase and i forgot to tell them I was already on the 'World's Biggest Advertising Space!'
:wink: Cheers, Nigel

 

[Ozzy]

Hi Folks,
I have today received a letter from a form of solicitors acting on behalf of Hamilton Forbes Limited. The letter itself is self explanatory, so you may all read it and see for yourself that they state they are not involved with the now liquidated company Barrington House Publishing, and that their business is ligitimate.

A few searches by myself lead me to believe that what they say is true, and that they are not linked.

They have asked that I remove this thread, which I am not inclined to do as it does provide important advice to others who do receive calls from scam companies. I will however edit Alpha's post above to remove his first comment

Links to the letter are below;
http://www.ozzy.co.uk/fun/scan0001.jpg
http://www.ozzy.co.uk/fun/scan0003.jpg

Its the usually full on heavy first instance letter that one would expect, and I doubt they have the financial resources to carry out their threats, but that aside it is wrong to tarnish a legitimate company's good name.

If anyone has any evidence to link the two companies, or that Hamilton Forbes are not legitimate that by all means let me know and the members of this forum will deserve to know. For now though, it would seem they are legitimate.

 

[Magsite]

Oops Seems like I'm the cause of two threatening legal letters.

Sorry Oz!

Lisa

 

[Ozzy]

Two? Did you post this on another forum also then?

 

[Magsite]

Hi Oz

Not about this thread but I've just added this one

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/ftopic10374.php&highlight=

Cheers

Lisa

 

[Ian J]

If anyone has any evidence to link the two companies, or that Hamilton Forbes are not legitimate that by all means let me know

The adverse comments on the Blagger site seem to have been deleted so it looks they have also received a solicitors letter.

 

[amcphillips]

Hi guys,

I don't post very often but as far as I am aware they can not really carry through any of their threats. You have not explicitly stated that they are dodgy and warned others to keep away from them. All you asked is for other users comments about the company and possible links with another. If they don't like the feedback they are receiving then they should change their working practices!

 

[amcphillips]

Just realised ozzy that you haven't said anything about them! I'd therefore tell them where to stick their letter as freedom of speech entitles users to discuss companies how they wish and is not the opinion of UK Business Forums! I don't think that your ISP could give a **** about it either!

 

[confused]

The Forbes lot have rang me a few times, usually the same chap (or sounds like it) initially thanking me so much for wanting to help all those needy children ??!?? but recently they were also wanting payment for some advertisement or other. Initially I was polite and said not right now, but if they ring now I just say two words to them. (go away)
The above is my experince and that is not to say that they are dodgy, it might just be a mistake them thinking I took out an advert with them but didnt pay!!

CALV

 

[Tin]

Ozzy, I'm of the view (not remotely legal but more from a personal opinion) that the forum has not done/said anything inapproriately so I'd be tempted to leave 'as is'.
However, I do remember a case about 5 years ago (I think subsequently it has become case law) whereby a Dr Godfrey took an action out against Demon Internet and won very convincingly. The offensive comments were published on Usenet and not on any web page but I presume that might make little difference.

If it were me, I'd tell them to stick it Oz but I understand if you feel the need to be much more sensible. :roll:

 

[fastfences]

I offered my posting based on fact: I was badgered by HF staff, and their records, if concise, will evidence that I was contacted 3 times over 2 days.
Cheers, Nigel

 

[Ian J]

Just realised ozzy that you haven't said anything about them! I'd therefore tell them where to stick their letter as freedom of speech entitles users to discuss companies how they wish and is not the opinion of UK Business Forums! I don't think that your ISP could give a **** about it either!

What freedom of speech is this ? Have we done away with libel and defamation all of a sudden. There is no difference between this forum publishing something defamatory and the News of The World doing so and either could be successfully sued if that were the case.

The easiest way to stop defamatory statements on the internet is to threaten the ISP as they will not want the aggravation of a lawsuit and will just "unplug" the site.

I

 

[amcphillips]

Libel and defamation???? People posting comments on their dealings with a company would not come on this heading if its based in fact. Like I said before, if the company don't like it then change their practices.

Incidentally I don't see the BBC being closed because Watchdog upsets a few companies who need to change their ways or the Consumers Association (Which?) being closed down for doing the same thing!

 

[Ian J]

1. What are defamation and libel?

Defamation is any published material that damages the reputation of an individual or an organisation. This covers material on the internet as well as radio and television broadcasts - so even drama and fiction can be defamatory if they damage someone’s reputation. You can only publish defamatory material if it comes within one of the recognised legal defences. If it doesn’t, the publication will amount to libel and you may have to pay substantial damages.

Internet sites are not exempt from any libel laws. If you are publishing on the internet you are bound by the same libel laws as print publishers.

In the UK, internet service providers are coming under increasing pressure to close sites containing defamatory allegations. You also have to be careful about the comments others post on your site. There have been cases where individuals have sued online publishers for libel over customer book reviews published on their sites.

2. Get your facts right

The most important point is to make absolutely sure that what you are printing or writing is true. Do not make claims or accusations that you cannot prove. Even if you think you can do this, be cautious. Proving things in court can be very difficult.

And the test of what the words mean is what a reasonable reader is likely to take as their natural and ordinary meaning, in their full context - what you intended as the author or publisher is irrelevant.

If you write something that cannot be substantiated the credibility of your site, organisation or cause may be questioned. It can also land you with an expensive lawsuit and there is no legal aid for libel cases.

The burden of proof lies with the defendant
Almost uniquely in English law, in libel cases the burden of proof lies with the author / publisher and not the complainant. In other words, you have to prove that what you write is true. The person you’ve targeted does not have to prove that you’re wrong.

I'm not sure that I'd risk it and the people talking about freedom of speech won't have to stump up for legal costs if someone with deeper pockets decides to test the water.

 

[Deleted member 5685]

Hi there,

From my personal point of view, it is a shame that the company name shown in the attached link is so similar to the other named company - but I believe they are different. The one in question, which relates to Barrington House Publishing has "Publishing" in its title and appears to be a different company entirely.

The background to the "Publishing" company is available searching the internet.

I should think that because the "Publishing" company has a history of their methods of trying to (shall I say) attract customers, is the very reason why so many people are searching the internet for help.

Regards

 

[kartel]

Hi friends this has made very interesting reading. I have had dealings with HF and I also found this on a website. please edit if need be.

Questions charity callers don't answer

17 March 2006

Ms R.M. writes: I am writing on behalf of an organisation representing oil heating installers. A plumber contacted me regarding a company called Hamilton Forbes, which claims to sell advertising to support a charity, the Children's Research Fund. He believes Hamilton Forbes is a new firm, set up after the Department of Trade and Industry closed down an earlier business, Barrington House Publishing. Do you have any information about Hamilton Forbes?

THERE are close connections between the companies. Liverpool-based Barrington House Publishing was shut down by the High Court six months ago after a DTI investigation.

It used self-employed sales people to cold-call small businesses and persuade them to advertise on year-planner wallcharts. The sales pitch was that money raised would support children's charities.

Barrington took in £3.5m, but charities received only £100,000. Director Lorraine Wells drew more than the charities, and behind the scenes was the real mover and shaker, Peter James Lyon, a bankrupt whose job title was sales manager. His salary was £176,400 a year, plus a £103,000 company Mercedes.

Consumer Minister Gerry Sutcliffe said at the time: 'Companies like Barrington House are preying on the good nature of honest businesspeople, and diverting much needed money from genuine good causes.'

Hamilton Forbes, based in Burscough, Lancashire, is run by Jeanette Walker and Donna Tomlinson. Both women previously worked for Barrington House. The new company has taken over Barrington's contract with the Children's Research Fund, paying just over £8,000 a month for the use of the charity's name. Whatever the two women and their sales team make on top of this is theirs to keep.

They have taken over another of the discredited company's deals, with Liverpool charity KIND (Kids In Need and Distress). It pays just over £8,000 a month to use the charity's name in its sales pitch, this time through a company called Price Chamberlain. Again, this company cold-calls to sell advertising on year planners.

I asked Hamilton Forbes whether Lyon was still involved in it or Price Chamberlain following the DTI inquiry. The company told me: 'Hamilton Forbes and Price Chamberlain are owned and operated by Mrs J. Walker.' But this does not answer the question. A similar query to the Children's Research Fund was ignored. I asked both the charity and Hamilton Forbes how many year planners were produced. Neither answered.

Stephen Yip, founder of KIND, told me he was monitoring the conduct of his charity's contract with Price Chamberlain. Complaints had been received about the company's calls, he said.

'Some of the complaints are that they never said they were a commercial company, but that they were the charity,' he added. As for Hamilton Forbes, Julian Edwards of Lancashire Trading Standards said only a few complaints had been received about the firm.

But he added: 'Don't give to anybody unless you know exactly who you are dealing with on the charitable side.'

 

[GreatSEO]

Again peeps may i say that a way of stopping these calls without being rude (they are humans just paid for the job after all) is to TPS protect yourself here is some more info -

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=20010

Regards

Dave

 

[ChrisO]

Guys, there is definately a massive link between these two companies.

Compare these two sites

Hamilton Forbes : hamiltonforbes.co.uk

With

Barrington House Publishing : barringtonhousepublishing.co.uk

Of course barringtonhousepublishing.co.uk needs to be checked on the Way Back Machine at archive.org

In short the designs are near on identical, as are the designers and the products offered.

 

[JoyDivision]

This scam has been on watch dog a few times and they often target new businesses. The second I was added to yell.com the calls came in.

Since being added to the TPS sales calls have virtualy stopped.

 

[JamesUK]

I believe that I had a call from HF about ten months ago, shortly after being added to yell.com. If my memory serves me well, then I believe they were asking me to take out an advert in a calender for a childrens charity. After speaking to them a few times, I thought it all sounded a bit fishy, and stopped answer their calls.

It wasn't just HF who called me after being added to yell.com.... As soon as I added myself to yell.com the sales calls flooded in, sometimes hitting three or four per day (from various different companies). I actually had to take my advert off yell.com because I wasnt sure who were potential customers calling and who were sales people.

I think I might try this TSP thing...

 

[JoyDivision]

It really does work, there is nothing worse than being a small startup based from home and recieving bogus calls.

The calandars call I got were supposed to be different places, like Greater Manchester police (from a Preston number?) and Christies hopsital. All exactly the same sales pitch.

I found out that Greater Manchester police do not have such a scheme which proofs the call was fake.

 

[garyk]

Well just did a background check and the directors names do not tie up (probably as per the previous posters suggesttions) however the status of the companies is as follows-
HF Limited - In receivership/administration
BH Publishing Corporation - In Liquidation
BH Publishing Company - Company is dissolved

Gary

 

[Sparky331]

Have no fear, the Company Investigations Branch of the DTI will already know what they're up to. Having had recent dealings with the CIB - (as a victim I hasten to add) - you'd be surprised what they do know.

Received a call about 4 weeks ago from a previous contact in the DTI in London asking me to futher enlarge on something I'd actually put on the Franchising section of this forum. So they are watching.

The problem is unless the DTI receive complaints they don't usually act. That's why it's always better if a number of people with the same common interest (rip off) get together to present a united complaint to the DTI. They will then surely listen. Well they did with our group anyway and have carried out what we believe to be a very thorough investigation into some companies our group has had major problems with.

Bob

P.S. I also received a call from one of those companies in Liverpool asking me to subscribe to a Fire Brigade type calender a few weeks ago - I wonder why!!

 

[PI Guy]

J.S. writes: Financial Mail's sister website thisismoney.co.uk carries your report of a year ago about charity fundraisers Hamilton Forbes Limited. I just wish I had read it sooner.

My business was contacted in December by a man who said he represented the Children's Research Fund. He said the charity and Hamilton Forbes were producing 20,000 wallchart year planners and I agreed to advertise on them.
On January 25, Hamilton Forbes phoned to offer a discount for payment that day, so I gave my debit card details. Later that day, the original caller rang to say the charity had stopped working with Hamilton Forbes, which had gone into administration. Attempts to contact the company and the charity failed, but our money has been taken.

Call the police. On January 25, Hamilton Forbes had already been in administration for nine days and had ceased trading.


Lawyers acting for the administrators told me: 'The administrators dismissed the sales staff on January 19 and all other staff on January 23, so no calls should, or could, have been made by the company on January 25.'
You were tricked. And it gets worse. When it went into administration, Hamilton Forbes was already under investigation by the Department of Trade and Industry. Those running the company would have known this.


On January 29, the DTI went to the High Court and won an order to replace the administrators with the Official Receiver. And on Tuesday, DTI lawyers are going back to court for an order to shut Hamilton Forbes for good, along with a virtually identical company, Price Chamberlain Limited.
I warned against both companies exactly a year ago, reporting they were based at Burscough, near Ormskirk, Lancashire, and run by Jeanette Walker and Donna Tomlinson. I also suggested that behind the scenes was Peter James Lyon, a bankrupt.


All three had worked together at a company called Barrington House Publishing Limited. It also persuaded people to advertise on wallcharts, saying that money raised would help the Children's Research Fund, a Liverpool medical charity.
DTI investigators found that Barrington House raked in £3.5m, but charities received only £100,000. Lyon, the sales manager, creamed off £176,400 in one year and drove a £103,000 company Mercedes.


In 2005, the DTI won a court order to close down Barrington House Publishing, but the Children's Research Fund simply switched to Hamilton Forbes, charging the new company about £8,000 a month for the use of its name. Whatever Hamilton Forbes made on top of this, it has kept.


Neither Donna Tomlinson nor Jeanette Walker has offered any comment on the closure of their companies or on how you came to be fleeced after the administrators had pulled the plug on Hamilton Forbes.


I also invited Hugh Greenwood OBE to comment. He is the chairman of the Children's Research Fund. And I asked Liverpool paediatrician Professor David Lloyd to comment, along with Lord Morris of Manchester, the former Labour MP. Both are fund trustees.


All three are perfectly respectable citizens, yet after the Barrington House Publishing debacle, what possessed them to get into bed with some of the same people under the Hamilton Forbes banner?


I was told Lord Morris was away. Greenwood and Lloyd had no comment.
One comment I do expect to see after next Tuesday's court hearing will go something like this: 'Companies like Hamilton Forbes are preying on the good nature of honest businesspeople and diverting much-needed money from genuine good causes'.


That's what the then DTI Minister Gerry Sutcliffe said about Barrington House when it was shut down. I expect his successor Ian McCartney will say much the same thing about Hamilton Forbes. And if he wants to give me a ring I'll give him the name of the next company in the chain, which was set up six days after Hamilton Forbes went into administration.


Then he will be able to draft the next Press release without waiting a year and perhaps, just perhaps, fewer people will be ripped off by con artists whose moral guideline is that charity begins and ends at home.



DTI court challenge charity fundraising DTI court challenge charity fundraising
The Department of Trade and Industry has won its High Court bid to shut down corrupt charity fundraising company Hamilton Forbes Limited and its sister firm Price Chamberlain.
I warned against both Lancashire businesses a year ago when conman Peter James Lyon set them up to take over from his earlier similar scam company Barrington House Publishing when that was closed down.
Ahead of last Tuesday's court hearing in Manchester, the DTI's Companies Investigation Branch found Hamilton Forbes had raised £2.2m by telling small businesses all over the country that they could pay for advertising space on a year planner and the proceeds would go to the Children's Research Fund, a medical charity. In fact, the charity received just £100,000 - less than the amount pocketed by Lyon. The charity trustees, who include prominent campaigner for the disabled Lord Morris of Manchester, have failed to comment on why they lent their name to Hamilton Forbes after they knew Lyon's earlier company was corrupt.

 

[canada]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Always check out the company history if someone calls you to advertise on a charity publication, especially if they claim it's for kids with cancer, other life threatening illnesses, or something else to pull on your heartstrings. Check how long the limited company has been registered, and if the telesales person has a northern accent then it could quite possible be them, if you suspect so contact the Department of Trade and Industry and also the 'Investigate' page in the Mirror newspaper.
We need to stop these awful people from ripping off businesses and using sick kids to their own advantages.[/FONT]

 

[weneedlightbulbs]

As printed in the Mirror Newspaper:

CONMAN LYON BACK ON PROWL

SORTED

Penman & Sommerlad 05/04/2007

HERE'S an alarming sight: habitual charity conman Peter Lyon arriving at the offices of a charity fundraising operation.
Lyon's made a pile by raking in funds that kind donors think will help worthy causes.
He lives in a big detached house and drives a top-of-the-range Merc with personalised plates.
And it's no wonder he's loaded when you look at his string of charity scams.

First there was Barrington House Publishing Company, run by Lyon until it was put into compulsory liquidation with debts of more than £2million - and the shyster was made bankrupt.
Out of its ashes rose Barrington House Publishing Corporation.
As a bankrupt, 44-year-old Lyon could not be a director but he managed to be the highest paid person in the building, netting £176,400 a year plus a £103,000 company Merc.
The money came from the £3.5m the company raked in by conning firms into paying for adverts in wall-planners, saying the cash would help sick children.
Mainly it helped sick conmen like lying Lyon, of Halsall, Lancs.
Barrington House Publishing Corporation, aka McKenzie Campbell Publishing, was also shut down by the High Court.
But that sort of thing doesn't stop someone as greedy as this slug. His next charity fund-raising scam was called Hamilton Forbes Ltd.
Again, you wouldn't have found Lyon's name on the company books.
But he got the lion's share of the proceeds - or, as the Insolvency Service put it, he was one of the "main benefactors" from the money they got from wellintentioned advertisers.
The watchdog added that the company accounts were "at best inaccurate, at worst misleading".
Only around 5p from every £1 raised went to help sick children, not that donors were told that.
And the advertisers didn't even get any decent publicity from their plugs on the wallplanners - because only a pitiful handful were ever printed and distributed.
Which brings us to the Honeyrose Foundation, a small charity helping terminally ill adults, that Lyon's was visiting.
A noble cause, but possibly run by somewhat naive individuals.
After getting a call out of the blue from someone they'd never heard of, they struck a deal to allow this stranger to raise money on their behalf.
The charity gets £2,500 a month. Which is nice.
But when we asked them what proportion of the total amount of money raised in their name this represented, Honeyrose admitted they didn't know.
According to the charity, the fundraiser who approached them was an Andrew Garside, a sole trader who ran something called Chestnut House.
The charity didn't have a landline for Garside but gave us his mobile. We've called it repeatedly and it's never been answered.
Garside may be a sole trader of Chestnut House but he is also the secretary of a company named Armstrong Faith Ltd.
Its director is a Lisa Colford - who just happens to be a Peter Lyon crony who worked at his Barrington House, McKenzie Campbell and Hamilton Forbes scams.
We've no idea how much Chestnut House or Armstrong Faith are getting from the deal because it's only just been set up.
But the involvement of Colford is not a good sign.
And the fact we spotted Lyon arriving at its offices is nothing short of horrifying.

 

[lockie]

I had this lot on the phone and also a mate did too. They love to say you entered into a verbal contract and want paying or the bailiffs are coming etc etc. Ask for a copy of it as per your rights under the data protection act and you wont hear from them again. I learnt this after they threatened my mate but unfortunately for them his sister was with him at the time (a high ranked police officer) and she is asked for a copy of the verbal contract.