google adwords

[retro-kid clothing]

How do you find them to use?

Cost vs benefit.

 

[welshnoonoo]

I think it very much depends on your industry and the average cost of your service/products.

I have known campaigns where the average item sale was only between £10 - £30 for a popular item where the number of clicks were high but then the amount of competing suppliers are also high and the conversion rate was very low.

Then again, another campaign that we currently run works fantastically well. We have reaped in literally thousands of pounds worth of business because the industry we are in has a much higher average cost per sale. so for £60 adwords budget per month, we have gained new clients that have turned into £40K deals and have gone on to become repeat business customers.

What I would say is whatever industry you are in you need to keep a really tight hold on your campaign and take time to tweak it, break it down and make it as effective as you can.

HTH!

 

[directmarketingadvice]

How do you find them to use?

I manage adwords campaigns for a number of clients and here's my take on it:

Think of adwords is an auction for traffic. How much you can afford to pay for a click is based on how much a click is worth to you.

And how much a click is worth to you is based on (a) how much you can afford to pay to acquire a client and (b) the conversion rate of your website.

For example, if A and B are competitors and A is able to pay £100 to get a new client and his site has a 2% conversion rate, then he can afford to pay up to £2 a click.

And, if B is only able to pay £70 to get a new client and his site only has a 1% conversion rate, then he can only afford to pay up to 70p a click.

In this situation, you can expect A to wipe the floor with B when it comes to adwords. And this is because he can outbid him by almost 3 to 1.

And that means B is going to be living off the crumbs that A (and other more effective competitors) leave behind.

So, what's my point?

The ability of your site to convert traffic (and your ability to go back to your customer base and get more sales) is a massive part of success with adwords.

And, if you can't do it as well as your competition, you're going to have an uphill struggle.

Hope this helps,

Steve

 

[Simon Brummitt]

There is no point using AdWords for your site when the first organic listing on Google sells the same products as you considerably cheaper. You will waste a great deal of money and sell nothing. Improve your organic listings and because you have no costs in reaching clients you should be able to sell at a more competitive price. Your delivery prices are also excessive for the size and weight of the products in many cases. I also believe that you are totally invisible to Google, I haven't got time to investigate right now but I am sure someone here will tell you what you have done wrong. Very few people will buy from a site that has no address or telephone number in the 'contact us' page. When linking to your basket page I get the message that the page contains both secure and insecure items, this is also a big put off. Lastly I have to remember enough user names and passwords already, like most people I will not shop with a site that insists I register. What are your expectations from this site?

There are pleanty of people that will take your money but unless you are competitive and highly visable you are wasting your time.

 

You have to know how to use adwords well and very few advertisers do!

There is a world of possibilities very few people are aware exist - even in extremely competitive markets in which the normal price is £2 per click, it is still possible to get 10p clicks, if you are willing to lateral think and know some of the tricks.

And whilst I will not give away any of the more devious ways to get cheap traffic: -

Let me give a simple example:

Someone was on this forum recently asking for SEO for his site,

And to avoid embarassment I shall mask Identity by saying he was selling golf stuff (he wasnt) So his site was selling golf clubs , golf gloves and so on.

And following the herd, he will have a painful journey , he will be probably be fleeced by the SEO.industry ..in a futile quest to rank for terms such as golf club and golf glove.

And were the same person to bid for keywords he would start thinking of keywords like "golf club", "golf driver" and so on ,and get fleeced by google too! and say PHEW!!! this is EXPENSIVE!!!

If the same guy were to start thinking about this from other angles: what else is his customer thinking??? KEEP ASKING YOURSELF , and you will discover some of the more devious tricks!!

SO on a simple level, and this is not one of the best:

He would start thinking things like...hey . well this same guy is probably interested in books on golf, or information on how to play.

What else is this guy doing?? well he probably wants to know things like "how to chip" and anyone who types how to chip, may also be interested in golf clubs.

So if you look you will see that there is almost nobody bidding on "how to chip": so that means cheap clicks!!!, and IT IS EVEN BETTER than bidding on golf clubs.. why because you can have a page on your site about how to chip, and offer a free video instruction course, in return for signing up on the email...

(And if you look at how competitive it is , you could even get organic rankings for how to chip in a matter of days, if you know how.)

Soby adwords or organic ranking now you have achieved the PRIME GOAL OF EVERY WEBSITE which is to capture customer details, then relationship building and direct marketing/ customer lifetime value will start.

You can even upsell on the thank you page, to make immediate revenue.

So OK theres one way.

Heres another.

What else does this guy do? Well: he also is likely to click on google site #1.. on the organic search. Many of these sites have site targetted google ads on the page.

If you bid site targetted advertising for the site that is #1 on your niche, you will get the traffic at a FRACTION of the cost, it would have been for the placing #1 on google search PPC - site targetted is presently on a CMP basis- although there are rumours that may be changing.

And I havent even scraped the surface of getting cheap adwords......

So the message I am trying to get over here: is

If you are selling kids clothes and bidding on search campaigns for "kids clothes" you are doing the WORST THING possible for economics of google ads.

DONT FOLLOW THE HERD!!!

If anyone is selling toys for example, there are search terms out there RIGHT NOW getting thousands of clicks that only buyers of toys would type, that presently have ZERO competition, (except me!) and so you can get for pennies per click.. and not have to fight hundreds of others.

 

[UKSBD]

As well as the good info above.
I would say the absolute most important thing when using AdWords is
make sure you are only using it on products you are going to sell.

It doesn't matter how good your site is, how many visitors you get, how
cheap you can get a way with paying for clicks if the site underneath you is
selling a similar product at a cheaper price.

 

[Simon Brummitt]

It appears to me that there are a number of reasons that you would use google, et al, here are some of the most likely.

1. Searching for "How to" do something.
2. Searching generic terms, for inspiration on what to buy & information on a specific topic.
3. Looking for someone in particular.
4. Looking for a particular company.
5. Looking for lyrics, tab etc
6. Looking for images
7. For many people here, checking their own listings and checking competitor's websites for price comparison etc.

Of the zillions of searches only a small percentage will be looking to purchase something. So let's consider the average person. If you know exactly the make and model that is what you are going to search for.

Eg. Tansun Bermuda 3kW

If on the other hand you have no idea what you want other than it is an "electric infrared patio heater", then that is what you will search for. Having then found through the research on the sites you visit that it is in fact a "Tansun Bermuda 3kW" that you need you would most likely search again for this to find the best deal available from only those people that sell this exact product.

Keywords you could use for this site would include the following

Patio Heater
Electric Patio Heater
Infrared Patio Heater
Electric Infrared Patio Heater

Patio Heater will most likely yield the most traffic and cost per click will be high, reducing as you get down this list. The ROI is not going to be impressive.

Consider only using
Tansun
Bermuda

Tansun is the manufacture and will yield results for the corporate site and those others selling Tansun products.

Bermuda would be useless as it has other meanings and will yield many impressions but very few useful clicks of interest to you. Bad ROI.

However "Tansun Bermuda" will get you the exact people you are trying to sell to, fewer clicks 100% relevant traffic. If you appear here and you are competitive you will take the sale. Very high ROI.

Remember also, that after purchasing from you most of your customers will have no idea in a few weeks or months where they purchased these products, unless of course you happen to be a household name. There is very little loyalty, if any online so I must disagree with kimmrunner and personally believe that there is no value in paying for traffic that is not highly targeted. Even the pennies will add up if only 1 in 400 purchase from you.

My advice to you is avoid using AdWords as it is rarely cost effective, especially on low value products, improve your natural listings on Google, be competitive, sell a good range of branded goods and try to keep the value up on each order.

 

It appears to me that there are a number of reasons that you would use google, et al, here are some of the most likely.

1. Searching for "How to" do something.
2. Searching generic terms, for inspiration on what to buy & information on a specific topic.
3. Looking for someone in particular.
4. Looking for a particular company.
5. Looking for lyrics, tab etc
6. Looking for images
7. For many people here, checking their own listings and checking competitor’s websites for price comparison etc.

Of the zillions of searches only a small percentage will be looking to purchase something. So let’s consider the average person. If you know exactly the make and model that is what you are going to search for.

Eg. Tansun Bermuda 3kW

If on the other hand you have no idea what you want other than it is an “electric infrared patio heater”, then that is what you will search for. Having then found through the research on the sites you visit that it is in fact a “Tansun Bermuda 3kW” that you need you would most likely search again for this to find the best deal available from only those people that sell this exact product.

Keywords you could use for this site would include the following

Patio Heater
Electric Patio Heater
Infrared Patio Heater
Electric Infrared Patio Heater

Patio Heater will most likely yield the most traffic and cost per click will be high, reducing as you get down this list. The ROI is not going to be impressive.

Consider only using
Tansun
Bermuda

Tansun is the manufacture and will yield results for the corporate site and those others selling Tansun products.

Bermuda would be useless as it has other meanings and will yield many impressions but very few useful clicks of interest to you. Bad ROI.

However “Tansun Bermuda” will get you the exact people you are trying to sell to, fewer clicks 100% relevant traffic. If you appear here and you are competitive you will take the sale. Very high ROI.

Remember also, that after purchasing from you most of your customers will have no idea in a few weeks or months where they purchased these products, unless of course you happen to be a household name. There is very little loyalty, if any online so I must disagree with kimmrunner and personally believe that there is no value in paying for traffic that is not highly targeted. Even the pennies will add up if only 1 in 400 purchase from you.

My advice to you is avoid using AdWords as it is rarely cost effective, especially on low value products, improve your natural listings on Google, be competitive, sell a good range of branded goods and try to keep the value up on each order.

All conventional wisdom, and also the reason most fail on adwords - and fail online generally

It is faulty marketing.

First you are thinking in terms of a one time sale of one product..you should be thinking of a relationship sell, where your prime objective is capturing details. Whether you do that with a loss leader, free product, voucher, whatever.

SO #1 is think list and customer lifetimevalue

And if you think relationship..information on "how to chip", (with thank you page up sell of DVDs etc) and longer term sales of product is a lot CHEAPER and more EFFECTIVE than Bull at a gate..."Greg norman proflite golf glub" as per (erroneous) conventional thinking

SO #2 think market and range of products, particularly information ...not single physical product

Second you are thinking in terms of price instead of value, your job as a marketer is to find a USP that sets you apart: so they prefer your product that comes with a video how to use guide, a free ebook....and accessories and moneyback guarantee Even though it is more expensive than the competiror

SO #3 create an irresistible offer and USP and demonstrate value, so it isnt price they are buying

If you target that product name directly, first you will pay top dollar, secondly you only find those who are interested in price. So you pay the most to advertise and get the least in return. Small wonder you dont think adwords works.

IN SUMMARY #4 dont think one time sale, and competing on price, the worst thing you can do on the web

It is those marketing errors that make you think this:

avoid using AdWords as it is rarely cost effective,

 

[Words of Magic]

Adwords is a complex system and can be very expensive, if you dont know what your doing. An adwords campaign begins with careful keyword selection which will decide whether your going to be successful or not from the outset. Generic phrases usually receives a lot of traffic but its very difficult to convert compared to specific phrases. The keyword selection and the landing page is critical to your success. Most people bid on the obvious expensive keywords, but from my experience if you do thorough keyword research you can find highly searched similar terms for pennies which the competition has either overlooked or to lazy to do the extra work. Keywords which are non converting, delete them immediately, you can save up to 40%-80% in costs.

For example:

If you were an affiliate promoting plasma tv's and brought traffic for the keyphrase plasma tv or sony plasma tv, your unlikely to get good sales conversions but a lot of traffic. But if you brought traffic for the keyphrase Sony KE P37M1B, this is a very specific phrase, the prospect is in the buying mindset and although you may get a lot less traffic, the high quality traffic you do receive will definately increase your sales conversions. Providing you have a decent landing page, which has a attention grabbing message, unique statement, compelling offer, call to action and a easy way to respond.

You do need to do your maths. You should know your value per visitor, so you know how much to bid per keyword, to break even and make a profit.

Wishing you all the success in the world,

 

[Simon Brummitt]

Analysis of over 1 million online orders across many different online stores tells me that (kimmrunner)your thinking is wrong when it comes to most online sales. There is almost no loyalty online and unless you are a household name your customers will forget you in the days or weeks after their order arrives.
Bear in mind that this thread was posted by www.retro-kid.co.uk/ who sells a very small range of children's clothes and shoes and a few maternity tops, my guess would be that their average order value would be under £30.
There is no way that Google AdWords will be cost effective in this case. I have no idea of your background kimmrunner and I agree with much of what you are saying in theory. In practice when selling online products that can be purchased from a number of other sites, including these days many corporate sites like Tesco Direct price does matter. You cannot seriously believe that retro-kid should look at lifetime value and USP's.
With online trading laws as strict as they are every customer has the right to return products faulty or not.
Enlighten us on some irresistible offers that retro-kid might be able to offer that would negate the need to be competitive. Their customers are buying tee shirts etc that can be purchased from 100's of other sites.
One of the main reasons people buy online is that they can generally get a better deal and can easily move to another shop if they feel the site is not competitive. Why do you think that the price comparison sites get so much traffic?
There are ways for retro to improve the site with information for parents etc. This will lead to the generation of free traffic from the likes of google and all of their sales will be cost effective.
By the way I do beleive in AdWords and use them when necessary and only when we will see a return on investment for us and our clients. I see no point whatsoever seeling products to soley pay my google bill. Our spend on google from Feb 2003 to date is £552,021.39 so I don't lack experience here, but most of our traffic is organic and comes from google FOC.

 

[retro-kid clothing]

Analysis of over 1 million online orders across many different online stores tells me that (kimmrunner)your thinking is wrong when it comes to most online sales. There is almost no loyalty online and unless you are a household name your customers will forget you in the days or weeks after their order arrives.
Bear in mind that this thread was posted by www.retro-kid.co.uk/ who sells a very small range of children's clothes and shoes and a few maternity tops, my guess would be that their average order value would be under £30.
There is no way that Google AdWords will be cost effective in this case. I have no idea of your background kimmrunner and I agree with much of what you are saying in theory. In practice when selling online products that can be purchased from a number of other sites, including these days many corporate sites like Tesco Direct price does matter. You cannot seriously believe that retro-kid should look at lifetime value and USP's.
With online trading laws as strict as they are every customer has the right to return products faulty or not.
Enlighten us on some irresistible offers that retro-kid might be able to offer that would negate the need to be competitive. Their customers are buying tee shirts etc that can be purchased from 100's of other sites.
One of the main reasons people buy online is that they can generally get a better deal and can easily move to another shop if they feel the site is not competitive. Why do you think that the price comparison sites get so much traffic?
There are ways for retro to improve the site with information for parents etc. This will lead to the generation of free traffic from the likes of google and all of their sales will be cost effective.
By the way I do beleive in AdWords and use them when necessary and only when we will see a return on investment for us and our clients. I see no point whatsoever seeling products to soley pay my google bill. Our spend on google from Feb 2003 to date is £552,021.39 so I don't lack experience here, but most of our traffic is organic and comes from google FOC.

Wow - thanks for the in-depth review! Retro-kid isn't my main source of income - so i can afford to play around with this and try out lots of different ideas...

In reference to your comment that "There is no way that Google AdWords will be cost effective in this case" - I would agree if this was a sole business and you needed to live off the income however, with my adword budget - it is pulling interest to the site and orders are being made which are covering the adword cost and making extra on top.

With your wisdom and expertise chap, i may pick your brains and you can pick my wallet with my other company that will be turning over nearly £150,000 in the next few months... so may need to really go through our strategy etc...

 

[Simon Brummitt]

I would be happy to help if I can. You can post here or e-mail me at [email protected]

Our experience over the last ten years has been through ishop. I believe that we are the only one-stop e-commerce solution and payment solution provider and get involved in design, implementation and most importantly traffic generation.