Furloughed driver refusing to hand work van back

[Mpg]

Hi

We have an awkward driver who has been furloughed.
This driver has previously refused to sign a vehicle tracker policy, So as a result whilst he is on Furlough we want his van back to give to another driver who is currently in a hire vehicle.

Previous to deciding we want his van back and due to him being told not to use his van whilst furloughed as he wouldn't be insured. We asked him to take a picture of the current mileage which he responded by saying that he can't understand how that isn't classed as working for the company and he'll do it when he can be bothered (paraphrasing)

So in anticipation of him not making himself available to hand over the keys what would be our next step

Oh he's a slippery little sh*t who generally lands just on his side of the line..

Thanks

 

[ADW]

Do you not have spare keys? Retrieving keys from him I don't think the government would class as working. He is being an awkward arrrse and sounds like you need to tighten up discipline with him.

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

In before billybob- I’d sack the tosser.

 

[MBE2017]

How about go round and demand your van back, surely you have policies in place? If he doesn’t hand it over get the police involved, sackfor gross misconduct etc etc. Obviously talk to a lawyer HR specialist first.

I’m the type that wouldn’t bother talking, I would get back what was mine, but that doesn’t suit everyone’s personality.

 

[Mr D]

If you have spare keys then go get the vehicle.

If you do not have spare keys then turn up at his house to get them and change your policies about spare keys.

 

[MBE2017]

Also suprised OP you accepted him not being tracked. I understand how awkward drivers can be, but you need to manage your business, if he refuses to be tracked, then lose him.

 

[Mpg]

All my thoughts exactly guys!

He has both sets of keys. He's based a good hour away from base and should he misplace the 1st set it could take several hours to get a 2nd set to him and there would be a knock on effect, So having a spare with him works for us (until now). After this is done he'll be leaving his van at the office when hes finished at night.

He's been with the company about 8-9 years. His Mrs is management. He was a cracking guy upto about 2 years ago when his mrs didn't get a promotion that she didn't apply for (yet we think she told him she did) Ever since he's bee a militant little oik

 

[Mpg]

Also suprised OP you accepted him not being tracked. I understand how awkward drivers can be, but you need to manage your business, if he refuses to be tracked, then lose him.

He's actually employed by a company i contract to. But I get paid to manage that dept.
With a total of over 4500 employees their HR dept is a little soft.

So my hands are a little tied.

 

[MBE2017]

Up to you, but when I needed to introduce something similar, all my drivers, approx 40 threatened to go on strike. I offered them a solution, either agree and stay, or I would accept their leaving the company. Either way, I pointed out to the drivers progress could not be stopped.

Despite a very militant bunch, all agreed within two days. I used the for your safety and security line along with a few others, better productivity etc, but accepted maybe some old timers could not manage new technology.

 

[billybob99]

Sack the little ****er.

 

[Mpg]

Up to you, but when I needed to introduce something similar, all my drivers, approx 40 threatened to go on strike. I offered them a solution, either agree and stay, or I would accept their leaving the company. Either way, I pointed out to the drivers progress could not be stopped.

Despite a very militant bunch, all agreed within two days. I used the for your safety and security line along with a few others, better productivity etc, but accepted maybe some old timers could not manage new technology.

Funnily enough hes the only one out of 40.

We can prove the need for safety. Last month we had a van nicked as the driver got out. And last year we had a driver drop dead. He lived alone and we only knew something was up as he left his house normally at exactly 17:00. So at 17:30 we knew something wasnt right. Called the police and he was found deceased.

If he wants to play silly buggers he'll not win

 

[Peter Cooper]

It sounds like he's "working to rule". In which case, he might attempt to refuse all further communication, given he seems to think communicating with you is provision of service.

As such, I would make it clear that he is in possession of a company vehicle to which the company has a right to reassign to other employees. In order to not be seen as permanently depriving the company of its vehicle, he is to schedule a hand over time prior to some date. If you have not heard from him by such date, you will arrange for the vehicle to be recovered, locks changed, and this will become a disciplinary matter.

 

[Newchodge]

Write formally and explain that he is required to make the keys available to (whoever person) who will call at his address at (time) on (date). If he is not at home or refuses to hand over the keys he will be reported to the ;police for taking a vehicle without the owner's consent. Have the letter hand-delivered, preferably to him in person, or, if not, photograph it going through his door, making it clear on the photo that it is his door.

I assume that he is not allowed to use the van for personal use in normal times?

 

[MBE2017]

It sounds like he's "working to rule". In which case, he might attempt to refuse all further communication, given he seems to think communicating with you is provision of service.

As such, I would make it clear that he is in possession of a company vehicle to which the company has a right to reassign to other employees. In order to not be seen as permanently depriving the company of its vehicle, he is to schedule a hand over time prior to some date. If you have not heard from him by such date, you will arrange for the vehicle to be recovered, locks changed, and this will become a disciplinary matter.

Also point out any such costs will be deducted from his final salary.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Just go to his house and collect the keys, also inform him that you will be fitting a tracker according to company policy, Send a letter to all drivers reminding them that vans are not to be used for personal journeys

Any excuse call him in for a disciplinary

How have you let fitting the tracker become a issue

Get some golden nuggets

 

[Alison Moore]

Tell him you'll be coming to get the keys and he needs to leave them in a safe place for you to collect the keys and the van. If he won't do that, then issue him with a warning. He's deliberately being awkward and costing you money. I'd also get the van fitted with a tracker as soon as possible and he'll just have to get used to it or get another job. Taking a photo of the mileage wouldn't be considered working and he should be grateful he's still got a job.

 

[Newchodge]

I believe that you can only fit a tracker with the driver's permission unless you are checking that they are not abusing their use of the van, which can only be done if you have justification for your suspicions.

 

[DontAsk]

If he won't do that, then issue him with a warning.

Did you read the thread?

See post #8. How do you issue a warning, or sack someone, who works for a different company?

 

[tony84]

Ask for a time when you can collect work equipment.
If nothing forthcoming, go and put a clamp on it and take a photo of the mileage through the window if you can? I suppose that assumes the van is on the road rather than his drive way but if you have not been told you can not go on his property, I assume (could be wrong) it is not breaking any laws/HR laws? Could be wrong.

 

[alan1302]

Did you read the thread?

See post #8. How do you issue a warning, or sack someone, who works for a different company?

Why be confrontational about it? Just mention that he's mentioned later on that they work for a different company.

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

Write formally and explain that he is required to make the keys available to (whoever person) who will call at his address at (time) on (date). If he is not at home or refuses to hand over the keys he will be reported to the ;police for taking a vehicle without the owner's consent. Have the letter hand-delivered, preferably to him in person, or, if not, photograph it going through his door, making it clear on the photo that it is his door.

I assume that he is not allowed to use the van for personal use in normal times?

I would also assume this. Furthermore I would bet a pound to a silver pig that he is doing this. Therefore, in light of the current economic climate, my advice remains- get rid of this headache permanently. If you have 40 drivers, all furloughed, you won't miss him and will easily replace him when the comes.

 

[Awinner2]

He's actually employed by a company i contract to. But I get paid to manage that dept.
With a total of over 4500 employees their HR dept is a little soft.

So my hands are a little tied.

So he is not employed by you? Then you cannot fire him or discipline him. Only they can do that. Get them to take over responsibility for his actions. Step back but of course, raise your concerns with the HR and record everything too.

 

[Alison Moore]

Did you read the thread?
See post #8. How do you issue a warning, or sack someone, who works for a different company?

FFS No wonder people comment that they find this forum confrontational. Yes I did read *most* of the thread - but I didn't see that bit. I could argue why didn't the OP put that in their original message, rather than having to read every single comment on every single post in order to find out all the facts. I've been in business for over 20 years and the rudeness on here beggars belief.

Why be confrontational about it? Just mention that he's mentioned later on that they work for a different company.

and thankyou Alan - yes that's all that needed to be said.

 

[DontAsk]

You'll know if I am being confrontational or rude, trust me

Some people seem to have very thin skins.

 

[alan1302]

You'll know if I am being confrontational or rude, trust me

Some people seem to have very thin skins.

Not about thin skins - just about you coming across as confrontational for no good reason.

 

[SillyBill]

This sort of behaviour never ends well for those that do it. I really sympathise with the OP, like there isn't enough to be worrying about at present. I've had some people play these tricks and sure they score a few battles but they don't win the war, ever. Think they are very clever but you wait for the right moment and out the door they go. There is enough to be dealing with in running a business than having idiots playing funny buggers.

People using H&S as a weapon is my biggest goat, often for very trivial things made up so as to be as difficult as possible. One unconventional tactic we've used to good effect is to agree that the business won't place them "at risk" if they consider us to be doing so and absolve them of the task completely. Advise them to just stand around while they watch their colleagues working. If they ask if they do another task (basically dictate to us what work they do)..."no, you were recruited to do this work and if you can't do it, then you will do nothing". The disdain of their colleagues who have no problem with the task at hand is then far more potent, flushes them out. Good employees won't tolerate these types for long.

 

[Mr D]

This sort of behaviour never ends well for those that do it. I really sympathise with the OP, like there isn't enough to be worrying about at present. I've had some people play these tricks and sure they score a few battles but they don't win the war, ever. Think they are very clever but you wait for the right moment and out the door they go. There is enough to be dealing with in running a business than having idiots playing funny buggers.

People using H&S as a weapon is my biggest goat, often for very trivial things made up so as to be as difficult as possible. One unconventional tactic we've used to good effect is to agree that the business won't place them "at risk" if they consider us to be doing so and absolve them of the task completely. Advise them to just stand around while they watch their colleagues working. If they ask if they do another task (basically dictate to us what work they do)..."no, you were recruited to do this work and if you can't do it, then you will do nothing". The disdain of their colleagues who have no problem with the task at hand is then far more potent, flushes them out. Good employees won't tolerate these types for long.

A couple of my previous employers had problems with staff on call not taking calls on works mobile. People who did not want to get home then go out in call an hour later. Or middle of the night.
Easy enough to avoid the call - so cannot be disciplined for the phone not ringing. Phone only records calls that it receives, what it does not receive it will not ring for.

However when deciding promotion, when deciding who to get rid of when closing a site and redeployment of staff - the ones who avoided work tended to not get what they wanted.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

@Mpg if you own this van and he is not employed by you then I would report the van as stolen
Failing that you may want to pay him a visit and conduct a "doorstep survey"
You have been around and seen a thing or two and don't think that you need the help from the forum on this . You know what to do

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I believe that you can only fit a tracker with the driver's permission unless you are checking that they are not abusing their use of the van, which can only be done if you have justification for your suspicions.

I think is open to be viewed in anyway that the person reading the legislation wishes to view it
Vehicle tracking should be a contact of employment (even if you don't fit a tracker)
The idea of the tracker is not to track the driver. It is track the load and the global position of the vehicle . Some insurers now make it a condition that a goods vehicle is tracked

 

[The Byre]

1. You (or rather the company you work for) has no contract with the driver.

2. If your company has a contract with an agency then the agency is responsible for any company property that is in their care.

3. If the agency (or its' employee) is withholding company property, then it is up to your company to take legal action for the return of the property.

4. Time to sit down and read them contracts!

 

[prophet01]

1. You (or rather the company you work for) has no contract with the driver.

2. If your company has a contract with an agency then the agency is responsible for any company property that is in their care.

3. If the agency (or its' employee) is withholding company property, then it is up to your company to take legal action for the return of the property.

4. Time to sit down and read them contracts!

Nail...head.
Insufficient information for anyone to have provided a realistic and properly considered view.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Just take back the Van! - You own it!

 

[Awinner2]

Just take back the Van! - You own it!

No, he doesn't own it. The company that he works for as a contractor employs the driver and provides the van. This thread got a bit complicated due to incorrect information from the OP, to begin with. But we can all be guilty of that!!

 

[Bob Morgan]

No, he doesn't own it. The company that he works for as a contractor employs the driver and provides the van. This thread got a bit complicated due to incorrect information from the OP, to begin with. But we can all be guilty of that!!

TERMINATE CONTRACT TIME! A conclusion is needed!

 

[Mpg]

HHmm Thought I'd replied with the conclusion

Ok so he ignored my email, sms, whatsapp and phone calls

So we sent a couple of staff members to go and retrieve the van which was nowhere to be seen. He had obviously seen the email and messages.

So I then called the division director to see if he answered the call to him.. He didn't but his wife did. She is also furloughed from the same company (she's management)
Turns out he moved the van out of sight into the back garden as it wasn't going to be used for a while, (yeah ok)

So van is now back at the office. His cards are well and truly marked and he's going to get treated exactly how he wants to be now. So no going soft on any mistakes from now on.

 

[MBE2017]

Going forward, you should talk to the employer regarding all vehicles getting trackers fitted, spare keys kept at the office and updating contracts to reflect new requirements.

I would update the contracts to state no use of company vehicle for personal use without written permission, and refusal to return vehicle or allow it to be collected considered gross misconduct / theft. Then enforce it. You will be amazed at how much personal use most van have, almost every van driver I have ever know uses the company vehicle for man in van type extra money in the evenings and weekends.

 

[Mr D]

Going forward, you should talk to the employer regarding all vehicles getting trackers fitted, spare keys kept at the office and updating contracts to reflect new requirements.

I would update the contracts to state no use of company vehicle for personal use without written permission, and refusal to return vehicle or allow it to be collected considered gross misconduct / theft. Then enforce it. You will be amazed at how much personal use most van have, almost every van driver I have ever know uses the company vehicle for man in van type extra money in the evenings and weekends.

That would work for his own employees. Not for some other company's employees.