FreeAgent vs Saasu vs KashFlow vs Xero vs AccountsPortal

[hackeron]

Having not found anything suitable for Mac, I decided to look at Cloud solutions.

I did not use each package extensively so I may have missed certain things, please post corrections if any. Also I'm not an accountant and everything here should be taken with a grain of salt, this is simply my personal attempt to find an accountant package to help me run my company: xanview (dot) com

There are also other cloud solutions that you may want to look at that for me personally are either too expensive, feel alpha grade or too complicated to use. They may however be right for you: CODA 2go, BionicBooks, Netsuite, Inttact, Arithmo, Marchant's Mirror and others.

In short, so far FreeAgent seems significantly better than the rest, by quite a huge gap.

In KashFlow,
1) I can't take a transaction and tell KashFlow it's dividends for me.
2) There is no support for car mileage and you need to enter this as purchases separate from the fuel receipts? - basically, not good for those of us without company cars.
3) I can't attach receipts (it tells you to write a reference code on the paper receipt!)
4) Dividends are handled by creating a new Transaction Type, and I guess if you want to track them by name, you will need to create a transaction type per person?

Xero is a bit better and seems more of a solid package but:
1) Still nothing about car mileage expenses
2) I can't even seem to add transactions manually?
3) I tried to import but it said I have locked my account period and there is no way to unlock in the settings or help manual - great...

I didn't try AccountsPortal very long, but the documentation doesn't even mention dividends and it's strictly double entry from what I can tell and feels a bit "old school". Not much help in doing your taxes either - many times you are simply told to speak to your accountant instead of telling you how to use the software. Don't believe it does much to help with corporate tax, vat or payroll either - very basic stuff here.

Saasu also didn't seem to have bank statements or anything like that - it had "Items" though whatever that is, inventory? - Again no mention of dividends and their help section is powered by google search - not a great sign.

FreeAgent on the other hand, had some things I really liked that I don't think any of the others have:

1) Expenses and Car Mileage Claims - I can not only enter miles per person per trip and let FreeAgent figure out the rest (even shows the 40p per mile in the calculation with separate VAT), I can see reports on who in the company expensed what and even see things like mileage per project.

2) Receipt attachment - I don't want to write a reference code on each receipt and file it in folders, why doesn't anyone else let you upload the receipt and throw it away? - FreeAgent does.

3) Managing bank transactions - I import all transactions, then I get a list of anything "unexplained" and I can then do things like - hmm, mcdonalds, right that would be dividends to me as I forgot my personal card - or that was a part purchased for project b - and FreeAgent figures out the VAT based on date and category type and figures out how much of that is can be taken out of corporation tax.

4) Built in support for dividends - sure I can create a separate account for every share holder, but built in dividends support is great especially when I can select a transaction, then set type: Payment Made To User -> Shareholder Name -> Dividends (or Expense Payment or Benefit in Kind, etc) - the categories change depending on type and fill in people's names where applicable, brilliant!

5) I really like the flow of FreeAgent - everything is so beautiful and easy and explained to you. I click on the Taxes tab and it shows Self Assessment, Corporation Tax, PAYE & NI, VAT all right there with due dates and values.

Please share your experiences

 

[gavcooper]

hackeron,

Similar story to me and I went down the same road as you over a year ago. After testing most of the software you have mentioned, I ended up using FreeAgent and never looked back. They are always improving the software and the referral programme means you can end up using their service for free. Make sure you signup through another user so you get 10% off the monthly fees, then you only need 9 more referrals to get a completely free accounting service.

FreeAgent 10% off link below in signature if you require it.

PS. My advice is to get a accountant who knows FreeAgent. I ended up moving to Chris @ Maslins and the level of knowledge and customer service has been brilliant. Because all your company accounts are online and you can give special access to the accountant, so there is no need to use a locally based accountant anymore. If you are interested in using Maslins, tell Chris you have been recommended by Gavin @ Red Square Creative.

 

[garyk]

What I do for expenses is I have set myself up as a supplier and just raise a purchase invoice each month with all my expense items on it, mileage, subsistence, sundry items etc.

 

[hackeron]

What I do for expenses is I have set myself up as a supplier and just raise a purchase invoice each month with all my expense items on it, mileage, subsistence, sundry items etc.

That means managing receipts separately and managing expenses separately, then maybe putting a reference in your accountant software for every "purchace invoice" to know where to find details of the expense.

Why put up with these messy workarounds, 3 separate systems to manage your accounts and not being able to get stats about expenses (like expenses per project or employee) when something like FreeAgent gives you all this? :|

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

As an accountant I think it's great that there is so much choice availiable now with many really good packages on the market.

It means business owners can choose a package which fits their requirements rather than the posistion many found themselves in a few years ago with the market dominated by Sage.

I actually really like Accounts Portal - I find it easy and quick to use and pricing is very competitive (but it's personal preference).

As an accountant I do find, although attitudes are changing, that small business owners often dont wont to pay a large monthly fee for accounting software, which is where Freeagent becomes unattractive at almost £30 per month for a limited company.

Its certainly changing the way as accountants we work

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

I didn't try AccountsPortal very long......Don't believe it does much to help with corporate tax, vat or payroll either - very basic stuff here.

Accounts Portal does actually deal with VAT very well including Flate rate VAT which not all packages do

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

AFreeagent becomes unattractive at almost £30 per month for a limited company.

Good lord - our fees start at £44.99 plus vat including the free Agent software!

http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/indexservicesltdsupfreeagent.php

and for Kashflow even cheaper at£41.99 plus vat including the software:

http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/indexservicesltdsupkashflow.php

That includes your year end accounts, CT600, self assessment etc

So yes it is changing the way accountants work!

 

[hackeron]

As an accountant I think it's great that there is so much choice availiable now with many really good packages on the market.

It means business owners can choose a package which fits their requirements rather than the posistion many found themselves in a few years ago with the market dominated by Sage.

I actually really like Accounts Portal - I find it easy and quick to use and pricing is very competitive (but it's personal preference).

As an accountant I do find, although attitudes are changing, that small business owners often dont wont to pay a large monthly fee for accounting software, which is where Freeagent becomes unattractive at almost £30 per month for a limited company.

Its certainly changing the way as accountants we work

Heh, us small business owners are a pain in the arse, I know

This is true, but it's £25 and 10% discount if you use a code. The referral system also allows you to pay less than that. So from day one it's £22.50 per month or £26.44 with VAT. So around £320 a year inc VAT.

That is a bit steep and I'm a bit hesitant about signing up just yet but it seems to give a lot and they hold your hand and give you advice from start to finish. Other packages expect you to ask your accountant how to set things up and get going. I believe it should save more than it costs on accountant fees (currently paying around £1200 per year).

At the moment I use one of those accountancy services where I drop of an assorted bag of all my invoices, receipts and statements and they do the rest. That's convenient but I have no idea what's happening in my business and would like to change that. So far this seems like the only all in one solution unless I've missed something.

I looked at AccountsPortal and they actually just emailed me, their support appears top notch! Also their pricing is certainly attractive. However then I'd need to manage a mileage log separately, I'd need to manage my receipts separately, I'd need to use workarounds like separate category per director and employee if I want to track expenses separately. Seems FreeAgent saves a lot of time for me here.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

I believe it should save more than it costs on accountant fees (currently paying around £1200 per year).

At the moment I use one of those accountancy services where I drop of an assorted bag of all my invoices, receipts and statements and they do the rest. That's convenient but I have no idea what's happening in my business and would like to change that. So far this seems like the only all in one solution unless I've missed something.

You certainly should see a significant saving on your annual fees with your accountant doing considerably less work.

I looked at AccountsPortal and they actually just emailed me, their support appears top notch! Also their pricing is certainly attractive. However then I'd need to manage a mileage log separately, I'd need to manage my receipts separately, I'd need to use workarounds like separate category per director and employee if I want to track expenses separately. Seems FreeAgent saves a lot of time for me here.

I agree Accounts Portal support is absolutely fantastic (I'm not on any commission by the way!) but I agree it doesnt suit all. You can certainly deal with the expenses in Accounts Portal but if you prefer Freeagent that seems the one for you. Its certainly a great package - I spent quite some time testing it myself along with various others.

 

[Malarky]

Having recently set up as a sole trader under CIS I am currently researching both FreeAgent and KashFlow.

So far I have found FreeAgent to be perfect for my needs except for a couple of things with the main one being no CIS support. Although there is a workaround for receiving CIS payments, I feel that it is more of a band aid than a proper solution.

I have only started researching KashFlow tonight and it was good to see that it supports CIS! However, the main issue for me is that it does not appear to have an easy method of keeping mileage and expense tracking as mentioned previously. This is a big one for me as my mileage is a daily occurrence and I do not want to run 2 systems. I also didn't 'gel' with it as easily as FreeAgent.

Therefore I am at an impasse with neither fulfilling all my needs. I have been told that KashFlow is looking at implementing expenses and mileage soon. Unfortunately FreeAgent doesn't appear to be offering CIS support in the near future. I will be looking at KashFlow a bit more as my accountants have suggested it.

 

[garyk]

That means managing receipts separately and managing expenses separately, then maybe putting a reference in your accountant software for every "purchace invoice" to know where to find details of the expense.

Why put up with these messy workarounds, 3 separate systems to manage your accounts and not being able to get stats about expenses (like expenses per project or employee) when something like FreeAgent gives you all this? :|

3 systems? errr no 1, I post my expenses once a month against a single purchase invoice cleverly entitled (if it was this month) 'Expenses November', simple!

 

[GaryMc]

It was really foggy and freezing, her car broke down on a busy route into the City and on a national speed limit. Obviously she wanted to wait with the car for the sake of meeting the recovery bloke and the kids had to wait in the car for most of the time as we were in the middle of nowhere, with no mobile phone and with nowhere indoors where we could stay.

I think you have just cut right to the heart of the debate here. So which was she using FreeAgent or Kashflow?

 

[David Griffiths]

I think you have just cut right to the heart of the debate here. So which was she using FreeAgent or Kashflow?

Spamalot, actually.

Going back to the main point, it seems to me that Freeagent is aimed primarily at one person contracting companies - people offering computer contracting services being an obvious example. Within that market, the offering looked very good.

However, I felt that it didn't work so well for more complex businesses - those with more customers, suppliers, employees, stock etc. Of the solutions that I looked at, I chose Xero and now use it for my own accounts and offer it to clients.

Most of the others would have worked as well, although in each case there were specific areas where I had issues with the offering. As is the nature of these programs, in many cases later upgrades have dealt either wholly or partly with those issues, but of course Xero has moved on as well.

For the record, it does deal with expense claims, and its ability to set up direct bank feeds is a huge edge in facilties for businesses with more than a few transactions each day.

There is no single solution that will suit everybody either in terms of facilities or even look and feel, which is almost certainly a good thing because it keeps all of the suppliers on their toes.

 

[edmolyneux]

Hi All, Ed from FreeAgent Central here.

Malarky - you're right, CIS is not supported by FreeAgent but it probably should be. We're evolving very fast so you can consider your comment a vote in favour of CIS support, and we're hearing that message from elsewhere, too.

I would say that FreeAgent (and KashFlow) are much more UK-focussed than Xero - being able to file VAT Returns online directly from each product, for example, which I don't believe Xero are intending to offer.

But it's very much horses for courses...

You can find out more about where FreeAgent is headed at The Depot (depot.freeagentcentral.com)

 

[gavcooper]

You can find out more about where FreeAgent is headed at The Depot (depot.freeagentcentral.com)

Thanks for the link nice to know what on the horizon for FreeAgent.

 

[Malarky]

Hi All, Ed from FreeAgent Central here.

You can find out more about where FreeAgent is headed at The Depot (depot.freeagentcentral.com)

This is another thing I really like about FreeAgent, a question gets asked about it and a couple of hours later there is a reply from Ed, the google-fu is strong in this one.......Joking aside, I like the way Ed is so proactive and this is why I'm looking forward to see how FreeAgent grows and develops.

Also, thanks for the link to The Depot, I'll be keeping my eye out for when the inclusion of CIS payments is added.

 

[ElMarno]

Hello all.

The problem with all the software solutions that people have mentioned above is that you still have to take that to an accountant who may not use it. Then you have to spend time transfering it all into an excel spreadsheet.

Why bother??

Look at Crunch Accounting. They's give you cloud software and do all accountnacy based on the details you submit for a fixed monthly fee of £59.50.

Moreover, they are an expert team of PGCE accredited accountants and can unlimited advice for no extra fee.

Done.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hello all.

The problem with all the software solutions that people have mentioned above is that you still have to take that to an accountant who may not use it. Then you have to spend time transfering it all into an excel spreadsheet.

Why bother??

Look at Crunch Accounting. They's give you cloud software and do all accountnacy based on the details you submit for a fixed monthly fee of £59.50.

Moreover, they are an expert team of PGCE accredited accountants and can unlimited advice for no extra fee.

Done.

From one accountant who uses Accounts Portal amongst others- we dont transfer any data into Excel and certainly wouldnt ask, or need our clients to, and we charge fixed monthly paid fees which are less than £59.50

 

[Jenni384]

The problem with all the software solutions that people have mentioned above is that you still have to take that to an accountant who may not use it. Then you have to spend time transfering it all into an excel spreadsheet.

I'm not sure that that's accurate. As the thread shows, many of us will accept books completed in a variety of packages and use reports straight from the software to create the year end accounts.

 

[GaryMc]

Hello all.
Moreover, they are an expert team of PGCE accredited accountants and can unlimited advice for no extra fee.

Done.

They are all qualified teachers? What has that got to do with anything.

1 post - selling Crunch - are you not declaring an interest for any particular reason?

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

They are all qualified teachers? What has that got to do with anything.

I did wonder??

 

[Jenni384]

They are all qualified teachers? What has that got to do with anything.

Ha! I missed that, the PGCE did register but not in full....... Well spotted!!!!

 

[ElMarno]

Lol .. I meant PCG

I do like how people will jump on a typo in order to discredit an argument. That must be the forum based equivalent of the straw man fallacy.

Anyway, if a sole-trader is turning over in excess of £25, ordinarilly, and I must stress ordinarilly, they will be finacially better off operating as a limited company.

There are other reasons why Ltd status is better as well.

Now as our delightful salesperson from MyAccountsOnline correctly said thay can look after you for less than 59.50 + VAT per month, only £39.99 to do Ltd accounts in fact wow!

However, and I quote

"If you would like us to provide monthly book-keeping, monthly accounts and reports as well as year-end accounts and tax returns, or require any other services such as additional tax returns, VAT returns, payroll, PAYE, CIS, company formations, completion of company annual returns etc, please contact us for a quote based upon your exact requirements."

Now that makes me laugh.

Crunch will

set you up as a limited comopany for £60 + VAT

give you bookeeping software

do your end of year

do your corporation tax

get you VAT registered and automate all you VAT returns

Be your registered office and your registered agent

give you your own account manager

give you unlimited PCG accredited accountancy advice.

do your payroll

etc etc.

Thats all for 59.50 + VAT

see ya later. x

 

[hackeron]

Hello all.

The problem with all the software solutions that people have mentioned above is that you still have to take that to an accountant who may not use it. Then you have to spend time transfering it all into an excel spreadsheet.

Why bother??

Look at Crunch Accounting. They's give you cloud software and do all accountnacy based on the details you submit for a fixed monthly fee of £59.50.

Moreover, they are an expert team of PGCE accredited accountants and can unlimited advice for no extra fee.

Done.

There are enough accountants out there that *do* use FreeAgent. It's very simple, if my accoutant doesn't know or is not willing to work with whatever my requirements are, I will go to an accountant who will.

 

[ElMarno]

There are enough accountants out there that *do* use FreeAgent. It's very simple, if my accoutant doesn't know or is not willing to work with whatever my requirements are, I will go to an accountant who will.

I'm sure there are. You are 100 per cent right.

My point is simply, why bother?

Cruch will do everything and save you money to boot.

see my previous post

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Lol .. I meant PCG

I do like how people will jump on a typo in order to discredit an argument. That must be the forum based equivalent of the straw man fallacy.

Anyway, if a sole-trader is turning over in excess of £25, ordinarilly, and I must stress ordinarilly, they will be finacially better off operating as a limited company.

There are other reasons why Ltd status is better as well.

Now as our delightful salesperson from MyAccountsOnline correctly said thay can look after you for less than 59.50 + VAT per month, only £39.99 to do Ltd accounts in fact wow!

However, and I quote

"If you would like us to provide monthly book-keeping, monthly accounts and reports as well as year-end accounts and tax returns, or require any other services such as additional tax returns, VAT returns, payroll, PAYE, CIS, company formations, completion of company annual returns etc, please contact us for a quote based upon your exact requirements."

Now that makes me laugh.

Crunch will

set you up as a limited comopany for £60 + VAT

give you bookeeping software

do your end of year

do your corporation tax

get you VAT registered and automate all you VAT returns

Be your registered office and your registered agent

give you your own account manager

give you unlimited PCG accredited accountancy advice.

do your payroll

etc etc.

Thats all for 59.50 + VAT

see ya later. x

ElMarno I do apologise for any offence caused at your typo - its the sort of think I regularly do and my comments werent intended to cause offence.

Its great that you have found some good accountants that you can work with and who you feel are providing value for money - that sort of posting is always good for other users of the forum.

The only point I wanted to make was that you were very wrong to assume that Crunchers are the only firm who can operate in the way they do. In fact many, many accountants work in this way. The days of copying client data into Excel sheets and the like are long gone. Its one of the reasons accountants charge a lot less than they used to because our workloads have decreased.

Just to add I'm not a 'sales person' from My Accountant Online - we dont use sales people. I am a fully qualified FCCA and the founder and managing director of My Accountant Online. Our fees are competitive - not the cheapest you'll find but our fixed fee packages are extremly competitive. We dont seek to add on huge hidden charges but at the same time I dont feel its fair to inflate a fixed fee to include services which some clients will never use and the vast majority (over 85%) of our clients pay no more than the fixed fees quoted on the site.

So once again apologies it you feel offended it wasnt intended and I do hope you become an active member and regular contributor on the forum

 

[ElMarno]

Thanks for that message.

my purpose is only to get people to get people giving Crunch a call beacuse they will help.

I just want people to have the good experiences I have and for honest companies to do well.

x

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Thanks for that message.

my purpose is only to get people to get people giving Crunch a call beacuse they will help.

I just want people to have the good experiences I have and for honest companies to do well.

x

Thats great.

I think I can speak for many fellow accountants here - we all like referrals its one of the best ways to get new clients, and I am sure Crunch will very much appreciate your kind comments and the fact that you are happy to recommend them to others on a public forum.

 

[hackeron]

I'm sure there are. You are 100 per cent right.

My point is simply, why bother?

Cruch will do everything and save you money to boot.

see my previous post

No it won't. I looked at your software and wasn't happy with it, there are many features lacking that I have emailed support about (such as features mentioned in the first post of this thread!)

I have also found a FreeAgent+accountant package for £50 per month, cheaper than your package.

Not to mention that so far all my questions were answered free of charge by the FreeAgent in house accountants on their "Satisfaction" forum, so now I'm questioning whether I need an accountant at all... - I may have a couple hour consultation before I send off all the forms automatically generated by FreeAgent..

 

[DuaneJackson]

ElMarno,

You have registered on the forums with an @crunch.co.uk email address. So it might be more honest to say "we" when you talk about Crunch, not "they".

And having snidey digs at other software vendors isn't going to make you particularly popular around here.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

ElMarno,

You have registered on the forums with an @crunch.co.uk email address. So it might be more honest to say "we" when you talk about Crunch, not "they".

And having snidey digs at other software vendors isn't going to make you particularly popular around here.

Thank you Duane - a real shame it sounded like Elmarno was a genuine client of the firm.

 

[darrenfell]

Many apologies to all.

I have just seen this and quite frankly rather disappointed that one of our team chose to do this.

He is very new and I can assure you he will never do this again. He realises the error of his ways.

Crunch has never entered into these old forum tactics and apart from this mini-blip, will never do so again in the future.

Darren.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Many apologies to all.

I have just seen this and quite frankly rather disappointed that one of our team chose to do this.

He is very new and I can assure you he will never do this again. He realises the error of his ways.

Crunch has never entered into these old forum tactics and apart from this mini-blip, will never do so again in the future.

Darren.

Darren perhaps you could clarify who you are

 

[DuaneJackson]

Nicola - it's a shame as Crunch are a decent firm and do have many happy customers so don't need to resort to that kind of stuff.

Darren is head honcho at Crunch.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Thanks Duane - an embrassing incident for them best left at that I am sure.

 

[Alice Schwartz]

What I do for expenses is I have set myself up as a supplier and just raise a purchase invoice each month with all my expense items on it, mileage, subsistence, sundry items etc.

For expenses I just found a website called keebo.com. They digitize your purchase invoices and receipts and store them on the cloud and then you can download them to Excel which seems quite neat. I gave them a call and they told me they are integrating with most online accounting software and mentioned Xero and kashflow in particular. Has anyone tried this?

 

[garyturner]

Ed - ...much more UK focussed because you can file your VAT online?

That's a stretch? But seriously, we have it coming.

When are you guys gonna get certified by the ICAEW, then?

Xero is awesome, btw.