Fraudulent customer?

[Edward Miller]

Hi guys

Just wanted some advice, if anyone has experienced a similar issue.

We have delivered a expensive item to a new customer who says he hasn't received it. (Machinery, value of £2700)

This customer had tried to open a credit account with us but he seemed a bit dodgy so we insisted on a BACs payment first. Unexpectedly we received it and dispatched the goods to him on a pallet.

Subsequently he says he never received goods.

The paperwork was signed seemingly with a bogus name.

The delivery driver has photographed the house which he delivered to so we know that it went there. He says a guy signed for it on the driveway and he left it with him.

Customer is adamant that he hasn't got the goods, carriers say it seems fraudulent and I am certain it is but what can i do? I am determined not to 'reimburse' the customer.

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Thank you

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Lat him take you to court, I doubt he will bother knowing the facts

 

[Financial-Modeller]

Ignore him!

I'm not a lawyer, but presume that ultimate resolution in his favour would require him to take you to court, at which point you can show evidence that you and the couriers acted properly and delivered the item to his (home) address.

edit - was typing this and hadn't seen similar reply above.

 

[simon field]

Echo the above, ignore them.

 

[WaveJumper]

As above tell him you will see him in court. And maybe more importantly next time trust your sixth sense when it comes to who you do or not do business with.

 

[Newchodge]

Hi guys

Just wanted some advice, if anyone has experienced a similar issue.

We have delivered a expensive item to a new customer who says he hasn't received it. (Machinery, value of £2700)

This customer had tried to open a credit account with us but he seemed a bit dodgy so we insisted on a BACs payment first. Unexpectedly we received it and dispatched the goods to him on a pallet.

Subsequently he says he never received goods.

The paperwork was signed seemingly with a bogus name.

The delivery driver has photographed the house which he delivered to so we know that it went there. He says a guy signed for it on the driveway and he left it with him.

Customer is adamant that he hasn't got the goods, carriers say it seems fraudulent and I am certain it is but what can i do? I am determined not to 'reimburse' the customer.

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Thank you

How big was the item 'on a pallet'? Could it have been delivered throught the door of the house or would it need to have been left on the driveway? The normal scam when signing for goods on the dtriveway is that the order was placed by someone else who intercepted the goods but you customer placed the order so it isn't that one!

Are the goods small, light enough for someone to pick them up and walk off? - the other scam is someone seeing the delivery and making off with it. If they are small enough the courier is at fault for not delivering to someone IN the house, as opposed to AT the house.

 

[Edward Miller]

How big was the item 'on a pallet'? Could it have been delivered throught the door of the house or would it need to have been left on the driveway? The normal scam when signing for goods on the dtriveway is that the order was placed by someone else who intercepted the goods but you customer placed the order so it isn't that one!

Are the goods small, light enough for someone to pick them up and walk off? - the other scam is someone seeing the delivery and making off with it. If they are small enough the courier is at fault for not delivering to someone IN the house, as opposed to AT the house.

The item (industrial vacuum) was boxed on a Euro pallet - approx. 1m high and too heavy for 1 person to lift. Not something that an opportunist theif would be interested in? I am seeking further info from couriers at the mo.

 

[intheTRADE]

Keep the records of signature, photograph etc and tell him you will see him in court

Don't lose any sleep over it. A 'chancer' as they say

 

[WaveJumper]

Following on from all the above have you actually seen the picture taken by the couriers and if so should it not also contain the picture of the person actually signing for the item?

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Definitely tricky one. We had a server delivered last week around 5k value.

Courier came unloaded curbside and tried to get it in the building with a trolley.
Problem 1. Pallet to big for front door. No biggy so could only leave outside the building and I had to unpack outside and bring the server inside. I assume a residential address or door would be too small either to bring it inside either by a courier.

What really surprised me was that the delivery company didn't want a signature or took any pictures for a value of 5k. Courier was a company I never seen or heard before. Even parcel force these days take pictures with customers showing goods delivered.

I would get back to the courier and double check pictures etc... Also what are the terms you have with the company.

E.g delivery curbside, driveway, inside building , signature required, GPS proof...

So I asked myself how could the seller proof it was delivered with no evidence. In this case they knew because I wrote a follow up email but without that they would have a difficult time proofing it.

 

[MBE2017]

Further to the above advice, why not get the picture of the person who signed for it, plus signature etc from the courier. If the courier stupidly did not get the person in the picture, find out if the person was waiting or did the come out from the house.

I would then ask your client for their full cooperation into your investigation into this serious matter of fraud, and report it too the police. If the courier states the person came from the house you can feel covered, if not why would they deliver to someone just stood there?

 

[WaveJumper]

Interestingly yesterday I watched from the window a delivery driver put a parcel by our front door (none of our usual people I may add) he did not ring or knock and was at least 50 yards away when he took a photo over his shoulder and carried on walking without even looking back.

Amazing really but deserved an email to Amazon this morning

 

[The Byre]

Scenario One

• Driver's running late so does not arrive at the agreed time.
• He drops off the item and photographs it.
• Rings doorbell - nobody in as they gave up waiting.
• Driver signs the delivery sheet and F's off.
• Customer arrives and sees item.
• Thinks - "Hmm. Let's say that it never arrived and see what happens. Who knows, maybe I'll get another one or even get my money back!"

Scenario Two

• Driver's running late so does not arrive at the agreed time.
• He drops off the item and photographs it.
• Rings doorbell - nobody in as they gave up waiting.
• Driver signs the delivery sheet and F's off.
• A couple of fly-boys in a van see that the item has been standing outside for a while.
• "We'll nab that and if anybody says anything, we're here to pick it up, as no one seems to be in!"

 

[brucegreig]

+1 for reporting to the police. From your point of view, it looks like someone is attempting a fraud, so seems reasonable to report it to the police. I don't think there is a downside to this. Upside: the fraudster might be scared off. Big upside: the fraudster is actually part of a large organised scam and you help bust it. If actually they are not a fraudster, and they really didn't receive the goods, they will be very angry with you for involving the police, but I still think it would be a reasonable thing to do, given your understanding of the situation.

 

[fisicx]

The item (industrial vacuum) was boxed on a Euro pallet - approx. 1m high and too heavy for 1 person to lift. Not something that an opportunist theif would be interested in? I am seeking further info from couriers at the mo.

But easily moved with a pallet truck onto a rear lift Luton. Agree it’s unlikely but it’s not unknown.

 

[Edward Miller]

Following on from all the above have you actually seen the picture taken by the couriers and if so should it not also contain the picture of the person actually signing for the item?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

The delivery driver has photographed the house which he delivered to so we know that it went there. He says a guy signed for it on the driveway and he left it with him.

Is the pallet in the photo? Every delivery we've had over the past year has been photographed be it on the doorstep at home by Hermes or DPD and others at work unit.

 

[DontAsk]

Following on from all the above have you actually seen the picture taken by the couriers and if so should it not also contain the picture of the person actually signing for the item?

I have never been included in photos by couriers. In fact when one guy said he wanted to take a 'photo I said "OK" and stood there. Eventually he clarified that he only wanted a 'photo of the item on the doorstep and I was in the way, LOL!

Nor have I ever been asked by ParcelForce to put myself in the 'photo.

 

[Edward Miller]

Thanks for all of your help guys, customer still chasing so just waiting for exact info from the carrier and i will report to police i think? Solicitors not interested.

 

[jfrm]

My experience has been that it is extremely unusual for any fraudster to outlay their own money up front. It does seem most likely that he has perhaps decided to 'chance it' after the courier left it on his drive unsigned for, but you should be open to the small possibility that someone else decided to bundle a large expensive-looking unattended parcel into their van as they were passing. Getting the courier to interview their driver ASAP is critical when investigating these kinds of things - they do 100s of drops and after 2 or 3 days won't remember what happened. If you catch the driver in time and he can describe the person who accepted it or remembers that they came out of the property, for instance, that should be good enough to cover you.

 

[jfrm]

I have never been included in photos by couriers. In fact when one guy said he wanted to take a 'photo I said "OK" and stood there. Eventually he clarified that he only wanted a 'photo of the item on the doorstep and I was in the way, LOL!

Nor have I ever been asked by ParcelForce to put myself in the 'photo.

I think drivers aren't allowed to put people in their pictures - due GDPR or fear of being sued for taking a photo of someone without permission etc.