Fleet Insurance - Desperate help needed.

[Bogadala]

Hello All

I am new to the forum. Joined UKBF in search of quick advice and if possible any help i could get here.

I run a small food delivery company, this been 15th year. Lately finding hard to keep the head above the waters.

We have 3 Sprinter Vans- Temp Controlled. While 2020-21 had very less miles due to lockdown in hospitality sector, but we had 3 stray incidents recorded, which really were not our drivers mistake.

* One being our van stationary and driver checking his next drop paper work, a moped touched our Van from behind( rear of the van) and fell kerbside. When asked, Third party driver said, he slipped while parking his moped. As there were no damages to either side, none exchanged the details and left. After few months a claim came to our Insurer demanding a £76,000 claim towards damages and hire of a moped for more than 8months period. So this was a surprise to us , denied any fault, but matter went into court, pending hearing. Its sitting as estimate in our claims experience.

* It was a dark evening and raining, the visibility was not clear to read the mentioned height on the height restriction bar, so our driver approached the bar before the Tunnel Bridge, to check if his van with freezer bulkhead on the top would clear the height. Upon realizing he cannot, he revered the van and took alternative route. In the mean time traffic jammed as it was a single road and someone seems to have informed police or network rail. Eventually our insurers informed us that network rail would be claiming for insurance for inspection cost of the bridge. So our insurer recorded 10,000 estimate on our claims.( For Gods sake our van did not even pass under the bridge, to make any damages....but a claim recorded)

*Our driver on a foggy morning 7.20am, was waiting at a junction to turn right and a moped tried to squeeze in between island kerb and our van, and the moped handle touched our van on drivers door and fell on the oncoming road. Our driver called the police. Eventually received a letter from Police saying they are not pursuing a case against our driver as it was not our faulty. But our insurer recorded £18,000/- estimate on our claims.

In the above 3 incidents, none were our fault or we made any claim, but the claims experience show £106,000/- as outstanding estimate, which made our renewal to bump up from yearly £4800/- to £32,000/- premium. With this inflated estimates on our claims experience none are offering us reasonable fleet cover. Named driver is an option, but we are structured to drive any van due to the nature of the distribution business we are in.

We are shattered and unable to find help to over come the Scam we are pushed into. As it is, business has been shattered due to covid for 18 months and now to fund this premium has become a nightmare and AXA is not bothered to consider our past.

Does anybody here had such experience before with fleet which was pushed into distress fleet?
Does any body here have a suggestion for me please. Would truly appreciate any help or advice you could.

Regards

 

[Newchodge]

@Frank the Insurance guy may be along soon.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Rates have gone up lately

I don't think your incidents are that unusual

I pleb hit one of my personal cars when I was pushing a shopping trolley back to the shop . Then he said I reversed into him

A lot of fixed cost are now rising and it is important to pass this onto the customer to make a good profit

Frank should be able to help but if he can't I have a possible plan

 

[fisicx]

Are you sure these ‘accidents’ aren’t scammers? There has been a huge ruse in fraudulent claims over the past few years. So much so that fore and aft cameras are now standard equipment for commercial vehicles.

 

[IanSuth]

As a member of motorcycle rights organisation and having been involved for >30 years i have heard of loads of people who have had bike accidents - anytime they have been given a courtesy bike both the size and the duration of it have been restricted to keep costs sensible.

8 months of moped hire is unheard off - i had a mate shunted into the central reservation of the m4 by an uninsured driver (in his parents car) and injured plus his 600cc badly damaged, whilst it was argued about he was only given a 125 and that was stopped after 3 or 4 months.

Here is a sample hire company - £150 a week is the hire cost, even a year at that is under £8k, i can not think how a claim can get to £78k unless the rider was left a paraplegic ! https://www.scootech.co.uk/pages/hire/motorcycle-and-scooter-hire.htm

 

[Newchodge]

As a member of motorcycle rights organisation and having been involved for >30 years i have heard of loads of people who have had bike accidents - anytime they have been given a courtesy bike both the size and the duration of it have been restricted to keep costs sensible.

8 months of moped hire is unheard off - i had a mate shunted into the central reservation of the m4 by an uninsured driver (in his parents car) and injured plus his 600cc badly damaged, whilst it was argued about he was only given a 125 and that was stopped after 3 or 4 months.

Here is a sample hire company - £150 a week is the hire cost, even a year at that is under £8k, i can not think how a claim can get to £78k unless the rider was left a paraplegic ! https://www.scootech.co.uk/pages/hire/motorcycle-and-scooter-hire.htm

Loss of income?

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Hi @Bogadala

Sorry to hear if your situation. Unfortunately there is little appetite from Insurers for a small 3 vehicle fleet for a delivery business. Particularly with the claims estimated noted.

I suggest you look for advice from an independent broker that specializes in delivery fleet insurance.

Frank should be able to help but if he can't I have a possible plan

Speak to @JEREMY HAWKE - see what his plan is. Certainly no harm.


My thoughts on your situation:
1. Although the claims seem to be non-fault, your insurers will have probably incurred significant legal costs in defending you (In particular with regards to the largest claim at £76K). This is likely to be settled out of court and is probably the key claim that has affected your premium.

2. If you did not touch the tunnel bridge I cannot see how Network rail could charge you to inspect the bridge. If so, this claim be go away by next renewal.

3. As per point 1 above, if a formal claim has been received, your insurers will be incurring legal costs in dealing with this and it is likely to be settled out of court to save overall costs.

4. What have you done, can you do to reassure insurers that there is less risk of these types of claims happening - can you install all round camera system so you will have video evidence in the future?

5. Will insurers agree to a "low claims" rebate, such as refund of x% of the premium if there is a significant reduction in the 3 claims values when finalised, or if there are no claims in the next 12 months.

Unfortunately, you may have little option but to try and finance this years premium and hope that the claims are settled at much lower premiums, which will help next year.

Good luck.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

these people should be able to help

https://www.zego.com/fleet/

 

[IanSuth]

Loss of income?

Would have to be the highest paid deliveroo/pizzadude rider ever - and if he had a hire bike provided he was working again so less loss of income

 

[Bogadala]

Are you sure these ‘accidents’ aren’t scammers? There has been a huge ruse in fraudulent claims over the past few years. So much so that fore and aft cameras are now standard equipment for commercial vehicles.

I am most certain they are.

A similar incident which is part of the claims experience showing currently, happened in Oct 2019 where our Van was in the right lane and a car changed the lane and bumped into our Van passenger side door. A No-Win-No Fee Solicitor tried his luck and took us to court. TP tried to offer us several times to share the liability in different ratios and I strictly instructed our Insurers solicitors not to accept any liability. I have drawn enough sketches and notes to support our case. Eventually Third party solicitor with drew just before hearing. We counter claimed and recovered costs and excess. Its a uphill task for small companies like us to save the customer and also fight the scammers.

Regret, even though we have Order of Discontinuance notice from Court in June 2021, the amount of £1441 is still showing on claims experience. We requested AXA to update it, but they don't bother replying...

I am 99% sure rest of the 3 claims would come out of our claims by next renewal, but by then it would be too late and damages to our ability to get realistic premiums can't be reversed. We are entering into a very unrealistic world is my guess..

 

[Bogadala]

Hi @Bogadala

Sorry to hear if your situation. Unfortunately there is little appetite from Insurers for a small 3 vehicle fleet for a delivery business. Particularly with the claims estimated noted.

I suggest you look for advice from an independent broker that specializes in delivery fleet insurance.



Speak to @JEREMY HAWKE - see what his plan is. Certainly no harm.


My thoughts on your situation:
1. Although the claims seem to be non-fault, your insurers will have probably incurred significant legal costs in defending you (In particular with regards to the largest claim at £76K). This is likely to be settled out of court and is probably the key claim that has affected your premium.

2. If you did not touch the tunnel bridge I cannot see how Network rail could charge you to inspect the bridge. If so, this claim be go away by next renewal.

3. As per point 1 above, if a formal claim has been received, your insurers will be incurring legal costs in dealing with this and it is likely to be settled out of court to save overall costs.

4. What have you done, can you do to reassure insurers that there is less risk of these types of claims happening - can you install all round camera system so you will have video evidence in the future?

5. Will insurers agree to a "low claims" rebate, such as refund of x% of the premium if there is a significant reduction in the 3 claims values when finalised, or if there are no claims in the next 12 months.

Unfortunately, you may have little option but to try and finance this years premium and hope that the claims are settled at much lower premiums, which will help next year.

Good luck.

Thanks Frank, makes sense, and I am sure the current claims will fall apart, except the legal expenses our insurers may incur.
Getting a reply from AXA is not straight forward and we are on Extended 14 days cover which will end by tomorrow Mid night. I need a fleet cover from Wednesday, is the desperation.

 

[IanSuth]

I (well my wife) have just finished an eternity of trouble with Aviva

around Sep 19 i drove into rugby club car park and pulled into only space noticing the drivers door of the car i was parking next to was stove in (so bad you could see the ide impact bars through the skin), came back to clubhouse form pitches an hour or so later and bar staff who i know asked if the blue xxxx was mine, I said yes and they said a driver had come in saying his car had been hit on the drivers door and could he see cctv. They had look together and saw a Landrover reversing out from a space and when it did the person in questions car rocking violently then me turning up to park 10 mins later in that spot - hence he had realised not me but he couldnt get the numberplate of the landrover. As i was a bit concerned when i went out i took a picture of the front left of my car (which already had a small white scrape on it) and the dry space next to it where the other car had been and just forgot about it

Anyway fast fwd to Mar 20 insurance renewal time, wife tried to renew online and it wouldnt allow her, telling her to ring up. It appeared there was an outstanding claim against us that had been paid, Aviva who were both our and the other persons insurer stated they must have informed us of the claim by email but we couldnt find any evidence even in spam and more tellingly neither could they. When explained to us we realised it was the driver of the rugby club car who had claimed, i explained the situation and sent over the date stamped photo from my phone showing the state of my left wing after it was meant to have theoretically written off his car. The explained it needed to be assessed by a clams adjuster and engineer but due to covid blah blah so i took more photos of our car (still showing same scrape which proved no repair had taken place to our car), 2 months later they came back and said they agreed we were not to blame and they would change the system and refund the lost NCD against next renewal.

In Sep 20 wife renewed bike insurance and it flagged up she had a claim against her on MID but as a no fault accident- lots more phoning around (made more annoying as Aviva were again the underwriter on her bike insurance) for them all to agree we weren't even involved in an accident so it needed to be removed in it's entirety from the record (as even no fault claims affect your premium). £100 compo y cheque and a promise to sort MID and a letter in writing saying it had been done

The Mar 21 car renewal came and seemed a bit high before the discount of the owned lost NCD from 2020, looked into it and rang and person on phone said it was due to a higher premium due to "accident history", they had cleared MID but not their own internal system even though it was all within Aviva

More hassle, another £150 of compo and it seems to be sorted now but most people would have given up

 

[Bogadala]

I (well my wife) have just finished an eternity of trouble with Aviva

around Sep 19 i drove into rugby club car park and pulled into only space noticing the drivers door of the car i was parking next to was stove in (so bad you could see the ide impact bars through the skin), came back to clubhouse form pitches an hour or so later and bar staff who i know asked if the blue xxxx was mine, I said yes and they said a driver had come in saying his car had been hit on the drivers door and could he see cctv. They had look together and saw a Landrover reversing out from a space and when it did the person in questions car rocking violently then me turning up to park 10 mins later in that spot - hence he had realised not me but he couldnt get the numberplate of the landrover. As i was a bit concerned when i went out i took a picture of the front left of my car (which already had a small white scrape on it) and the dry space next to it where the other car had been and just forgot about it

Anyway fast fwd to Mar 20 insurance renewal time, wife tried to renew online and it wouldnt allow her, telling her to ring up. It appeared there was an outstanding claim against us that had been paid, Aviva who were both our and the other persons insurer stated they must have informed us of the claim by email but we couldnt find any evidence even in spam and more tellingly neither could they. When explained to us we realised it was the driver of the rugby club car who had claimed, i explained the situation and sent over the date stamped photo from my phone showing the state of my left wing after it was meant to have theoretically written off his car. The explained it needed to be assessed by a clams adjuster and engineer but due to covid blah blah so i took more photos of our car (still showing same scrape which proved no repair had taken place to our car), 2 months later they came back and said they agreed we were not to blame and they would change the system and refund the lost NCD against next renewal.

In Sep 20 wife renewed bike insurance and it flagged up she had a claim against her on MID but as a no fault accident- lots more phoning around (made more annoying as Aviva were again the underwriter on her bike insurance) for them all to agree we weren't even involved in an accident so it needed to be removed in it's entirety from the record (as even no fault claims affect your premium). £100 compo y cheque and a promise to sort MID and a letter in writing saying it had been done

The Mar 21 car renewal came and seemed a bit high before the discount of the owned lost NCD from 2020, looked into it and rang and person on phone said it was due to a higher premium due to "accident history", they had cleared MID but not their own internal system even though it was all within Aviva

More hassle, another £150 of compo and it seems to be sorted now but most people would have given up

See the unnecessary hassle one has to go through. I think the Ombudsman has to come up with iron fist on these careless insurance companies, who have no sympathy for insurers.

Its should be something like - if a error or inflated estimate is recorded on claims then the insurance company should pay for entire yearly premium of the effected..... for certain the law has to change on the way the claims are handled and should be in time frame...

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

@Bogadala
Any luck now ! ?

 

[Bogadala]

@Bogadala
Any luck now ! ?

Jeremy i have contacted the companies you kindly recommended, but yet to hear from them.
Thanks