Final Demand Ltd !

[K Smart]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this site and this is my first post. I hope it is posted in the right place?!

I registered with a debt recovery agency named Final Demand Ltd just over a year ago. I paid a registration fee for the lifetime of my business they said and this seemed worth it as they informed me a few weeks after registering with them that they had started to make a recovery from my debtor..

This is where the problem started as I never received a penny from them despite being told several times I was in the next payment run. My account manager was always unable to speak to me as was the owner so I eventually issued legal proceedings. They replied to my claim with a simple letter saying that they were going for voluntary liquidation.

I have now received formal notice from insolvency practitioners confirming this and informing me that there is a meeting of creditors in just over a week.

However, I have also been informed that a winding up petition was issued against them by hmrc and this due to go to court before the meeting of creditors.

I am aware that they have kept a lot of other people's money that they have recovered too and a lot of people have started to get CCJ's against them.

I am also now aware that the director of the company has set up a new limited company named Atlas Recovery trading some the same office and everything.

My question is can he do this legally? I am aware that companies do sometimes come under hard times for reasons beyond their control but surely they can not just keep client money that they recover, wind the company up and set up a new one?

Is this not theft??? Should I be reporting this to the police? Or may be even trading standards?

I have pretty much accepted that I will not get my money back and it is hard to take but I feel that I cannot let this go without at least seeing the owner of the company brought to justice.. if this is even possible.

Apologies for the long post but felt I should explain the matter properly. Sorry if it's in the wrong place too!

Any help or advice gratefully received.

 

[Scalloway]

If the company has gone into liquidation the liquidator should ensure that money that has been collected on behalf of customers is paid to them.

 

[K Smart]

Yes I agree but if it goes in to liquidation then isn't it likely that there is no money? Are HMRC paid first or will clients who are owed recovered monies be paid?

 

[Scalloway]

Client money should have been kept in a separate bank account. In fact if you scroll to the bottom of this page it says "Audited ring fenced separate client account"

http://www.finaldemandltd.com/uk-de...ry-services/debt-recovery-united-kingdom.html

 

[rach88]

Debt collection is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. It seems that Final Demand Ltd's membership lapsed in May 2015 (http://fca-consumer-credit-interim.force.com/CS_RegisterSearchPageNew?accId=622804)
(I note that Final Demand's website says they are regulated by the Office for Fair Trading. This is a little out of date given that regulation of the consumer credit industry passed from the OFT to the FCA from April 2014).

A firm which deals with regulated activities must arrange adequate protection for clients’
money.

You can report an unauthorised consumer credit firm to the FCA by calling 0300 500 0597. The FCA has the power to bring criminal prosecutions to tackle financial crime, including unauthorised business. If they were deliberately misappropriating clients' money I think this could well be theft.

If client money is held on trust in a client account I am fairly sure it cannot be distributed to other creditors like HMRC. It is in essence your money.

If the firm had been regulated by the FCA you may have been entitled to compensation under the Financial Services Compensation Scheme depending on the size of your business.

I would suggest calling the FCA as a starting point.

 

[rach88]

"Atlas Recovery" do not appear to be regulated either.
https://register.fca.org.uk

 

[K Smart]

Atlas Credit Management Ltd I believe is their full name.

Thank you very much for your replies I will be contacting the FCA tomorrow and taking the necessary steps to report them to whoever I can.

 

[Big G]

Hi there,

Unfortunately this post does not surprise us at all. <removed>

With regards to the FCA licence, unfortunately, when it was changed from the OFT to the FCA debt recovery companies do not actually need an FCA licence if they do not work on consumer credit i.e. loans, credit cards, etc. This is what we were actually informed at the very late stages of our application by the FCA after paying our application fee and spending a lot of man hours on it. This is ok if you are a good honest company but, unfortunately, it allows companies like Final Demand Ltd to get away with <removed>

We have had a lot of reports about this company recovering Client funds and keeping them and we have actually been instructed to act for 2 of these unfortunate Clients.

The main thing is that the Directors are investigated properly and not allowed to just disappear under the radar.

We dealt with another company who acted in the exact same way named City Enforcements and if you look them up on google you will see that the Directors were prosecuted for fraud.

We therefore invite any company or person who has suffered a loss due to Final Demand Ltd's fraudulent actions to contact us via this forum or directly so that we can assist with making a committee of Creditors and ensure they are brought to justice.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE WILL BE NO CHARGE WHATSOEVER FOR THIS AND THIS POST IS THEREFORE NOT A CASE OF SELF PROMOTION IN ANY WAY.

WE ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN VICTIM TO A SCAM / CON- COMPANY.

 

[Bespoke Lettings Ltd]

We are also a victim to the Final Demand Ltd <remove>. We are disgusted with what they have done to us and the many other individuals/companies <removed>

We are currently using Judges Demand Ltd for all of our cases and also to pursue Final Demand Ltd for the thousands of pounds they owe us.

I hope all their creditors can pull together to ensure they are paid back what they are owed. I also hope his new company 'Atlas Credit Management Ltd' is a flop as it is quite possibly being run on creditors money.

Bespoke Lettings (Doncaster) Ltd.

 

[rach88]

Big G - thank you for your helpful post. It is disappointing that there appears to be no regulation of this area.

If the client money has been misappropriated and was not kept in a ringfenced client account as promised, where would this leave them? Would they be regarded as unsecured creditors?

 

[Big G]

Big G - thank you for your helpful post. It is disappointing that there appears to be no regulation of this area.

If the client money has been misappropriated and was not kept in a ringfenced client account as promised, where would this leave them? Would they be regarded as unsecured creditors?

Yes I believe the clients whose funds have been kept (illegally) will be unsecured creditors for now but there should be a criminal case to answer here for the current Director and possibly previous Director too as it is fraud.

 

[CW Legal Services]

We have picked up work from companies who previously used Final Demand Ltd. All we say is that if you don't use us then there are plenty of reputable no win no fee debt collection agencies.
Not all debts are collectable and not all debt collectors collect. The answer to your question posted is that yes it is legal and frustrating at the same time.

 

[Sam78]

Hi,
I had these a rep of this company attend my Company. I have a few customers who havnt paid their invoice. Anyway they have told me that i need to make a one off payment of £800 odd pound to have them start the ball rolling.
Howver after reading the reviews i dont want to proceed. The only problem is that i have signed the agreement however i havnt sent them any client info.
Obviously at this stage i dont want to go ahead with them.
I have tried to call their office and i have had no reply.
Does anyone know what the likely outcome of this will be at this stage?
Thanks
Sam78

 

[Newchodge]

You have probably signed a legally binding agreement.

Refuse to pay them and let them take you to court, at which point you produce the evidence of their fraudulent activity.

Whatever you do, don't pay them.

 

[Lawyer]

I agree with Newch. Even if you signed the contract given the reports above it sounds very unwise to give them any money.

It is relatively easy to sue someone who owes you money yourself in terms of debt collection. I am always sending my clients off to do it with me just in the background if they need to in case they are struggling with some aspect.

 

[CW Legal Services]

Be careful. If you signed a contract and thye have not breachedi t then you may have liability.

 

[Sam78]

I have had a call from Colin, advising me that I have not made payment. He said i have signed a contract and legally I have to pay him. I told him about the previous company and the fact that they shut that down and didnt pay the people owed the money. He said thats got nothing to do with me and that he will be putting a default against my name personally even though im a director of a limited company and that he will put a default against my company and that hes going to charge me commission for the cases i havnt referred to him. I gave him no information relating to debts owed to me. I told him hes not getting any money out of me and i look forward to seeing him in court.

 

[Sam78]

Sorry i forgot to mention, if you type the previous company name in to companies house you can see how many people that company owed money to.

 

[Ian J]

He said thats got nothing to do with me and that he will be putting a default against my name personally even though im a director of a limited company and that he will put a default against my company.

It's very naughty of someone who is supposed to be an expert in debt collection to threaten a default against you personally when he knows that he can't but I don't suppose that integrity is part of Colin McShane's makeup anyway.

When he became a director of Atlas Credit Management Ltd he was supposed to list his other directorships both past and present and it seems that he forgot to do that too

 

[AllUpHere]

Regardless of whether or not he's a naughty boy, if you have entered into a legally binding contract with them, and they haven't breached the terms of that contract, you'll have a hard time getting a judge on your side on the grounds that the other party have a bad reputation.

 

[The Byre]

Regardless of whether or not he's a naughty boy, if you have entered into a legally binding contract with them, and they haven't breached the terms of that contract, you'll have a hard time getting a judge on your side on the grounds that the other party have a bad reputation.

Unless you can prove systematic fraud and/or that the new company was not formed or founded in accordance with the law and therefore it is reasonable (key word, that one!) to doubt the veracity and substance of the contract.

 

[Sam78]

The only problem i have is if i part from my money and i end up getting nothing back from them then what have i gained? Nothing just more headache. Companies such as this one should not exist. im just going to leave it until they take further action and hopefully it ends up in court and ill take it from there.

 

[CW Legal Services]

Sam
We always advise never going wanting to go to court and from what we have read the law may be on his side.If you need help in filing a defence or analysing the contract then visit our website.and call us. Some debt recovery agencies file a credit default without going to court. You may be defaulting on a contract and therefore in breach, but without seeing it we cannot comment. Whether or not he is a bad person the law of contract does not take that into account. A judge may well do that if it gets to court, but never want to go to court to defend a claim base dupon advice on forums as you can lose. People advising you not to pay on here without reading the contract are not as clever as they purport to be. If your case is as strong as you say it is then make a claim against the company or threaten to. You first need to terminate the contract correctly due to the breaches set out by you here..

 

[Newchodge]

They don't just have a bad reputation. They have committed fraud by not keeping their clients' money in a separate account, thereby safeguarding it when the company 'went bust'.

No judge will enforce a contract when there is evidence that the other party to the contract intends to defraud the first party.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Sam
We always advise never going wanting to go to court and from what we have read the law may be on his side.If you need help in filing a defence or analysing the contract then visit our website.and call us. Some debt recovery agencies file a credit default without going to court. You may be defaulting on a contract and therefore in breach, but without seeing it we cannot comment. Whether or not he is a bad person the law of contract does not take that into account. A judge may well do that if it gets to court, but never want to go to court to defend a claim base dupon advice on forums as you can lose. People advising you not to pay on here without reading the contract are not as clever as they purport to be. If your case is as strong as you say it is then make a claim against the company or threaten to. You first need to terminate the contract correctly due to the breaches set out by you here..

Your only saying this because you are who you are

There are some of here that have seen a thing or two and wont be pushed around in the court or in the boxing ring

 

[Sam78]

The law doesnt mean shite right now. To honour the contract and to pay the 800 odd quid to this company and then pass on client details for them to collect the money and to keep it and then for this company to close down again and start over well where is the justice in that? These threads might not be law but it allows people like me to communicate with ppl that have been in similar positions. Its shocking that this company has even been allowed to open.

 

[Lawyer]

I had a case last year where my client refused to pay further monies due to another company - bad service and when we looked into it court cases left right and centre. The other party sued and my client won. I am sure we were helped by all the fraud evidence we included from the other cases in the press etc.

Usually possession is 9/10ths of the law and don't pay if you have good groundes not to pay as here. Obviously it is different if a company is perfect and there is no possible defence. Even then the other party has a duty in law to mitigate their loss

 

[Big G]

Hi there OP, whatever you do you should not pay this company. It will be the last that you see of your money and nothing will be done in return for it I can assure you of that.

I attended the meeting of Creditors of Final Demand Ltd on behalf of several of our Clients and when Colin McShane was asked about this new company being set up he sat there and assured everyone in the room that it was doing something completely different but, low and behold, just a week later they were contacting clients of Final Demand Ltd asking them to transfer over to Atlas. The contracts are almost identical to that of Final Demand Ltd's and the website pretty much confirms they are running the same business under a new name.

Some of the people they were contacting were being asked to pay a fee and some were not but there is no explanation for this. I have this evidence so you are within your rights to question the fee being quoted to you compared to others.

Further to this there is also some very misleading information on their website that can be used to prove the mis-selling of their service.

Lastly, and quite importantly, what was the actual date that you signed the contract? What was agreed regarding payment? Did the salesman take the contract away and you were then due to send a cheque or transfer funds? Are there any cooling off period details on the contract? There should be and if there is not then I think (but don't quote me) that you should be entitled to up to 14 days cooling off where you can cancel the contract for any reason.

If you require any help then please feel free to send us a private message.

Good luck!

 

[The Byre]

Sam
We always advise never going wanting to go to court and from what we have read the law may be on his side.

Strange advice and strange use of English.

Whether or not he is a bad person the law of contract does not take that into account.

Er, yes it does. It's called 'Ethics' and is a subject that takes up a substantial part of any study of any legal system. And once again, grammar and the use of English not not your strong point.

 

[Noah]

the use of English not not your strong point

Inevitable.

 

[CW Legal Services]

It is a wise man who comes on to a forum and says what a Judge will say in the County Court then trolls a grammatical error as if they are a sage and a guru. We say never express a wish to go to court as the law is a blunt instrument and you can lose. The law is an ass, and those who state what will happen in County Court have not been in front of enough deputy district judges, in our humble opinion.

 

[The Byre]

In the main, true - except we are dealing here with a known fraudster with a proven track record as such. That makes the outcome somewhat predictable.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

@cwlegalserices is right the fact that he has defrauded the rest of the world will not be taken into account in a County court . I think most people here are not taking that into consideration
If however you don't want to be bullied then I would take it to the wire

 

[Davidmilwr]

A great deal will depend if the old company is found guilty or rather the directors. The old company runs from exactly the same address as the new one hiding behind supposed new details. It is interesting if you look at the directors name on the old company he uses him Colin Gibson McShane and in the new one Colin McShane so when you search the name there is no connection.

 

[K Smart]

Well well well....

1 year on (almost) and Atlas Credit Management Ltd have 3 CCJ's against them and appear to have dissappeared completely!! Still active on Companies House, just about, but probably not for long!!

Absolutely disgraceful and I hope that the Directors get whats coming to them!!!

Oh yes, talking of the Directors, the remaining Director named Paul Reynolds set up another company recently named PSJ Recoveries Ltd.. Looks like round 3 is well under way for these guys!!

PLEASE NOBODY TOUCH ANY COMPANY OR ANYONE THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH:

Final Demand Ltd
Atlas Credit Management Ltd
PSJ Recoveries Ltd
Colin McShane
Colin Gibson McShane
Paul Reynolds
Paul Andrew Reynolds
Lindsay Jago

I have filed reports with fraud detection, trading standards, insolvency service, office of fair trading, watchdog, etc.

They need to be stopped!!!!

 

[Lisa Thomas]

Thanks for the update

 

[Mr D]

I take it no one bothers to spend money to wind a company up and choose a suitable IP.

 

[Lisa Thomas]

That would be too tidy!

 

[Big G]

Thanks K Smart. We were aware of this and have always kept a close eye on them. Unfortunately this was inevitable.

For the past 7 days or so we have received numerous calls from a number of individuals and companies who are owed monies from Atlas. Funds recovered and not paid, extortionate fees paid for legal proceedings that have never been actioned, etc.. They even arranged a meeting with one customer on Monday of this week and when the customer turned up they were told that the company there now is PSJ and Atlas are gone!

It is our intention to Wind Up the company as soon as possible but we are trying to do it in the most cost effective way for the customers who are already out of pocket.

 

[James Molloy]

Just posting to keep up to date on this thread, I've also been stung by Atlas/Final Demand