Festival Food App - would this work?

[Lucan Unlordly]

Wondering if an app exists to do the following, or whether those in the food wagon business think it workable?

Picture the scene: Organisers invite food vendors to have a stall/wagon/trailer at the event. Mexican, Thai, Hog Roast, Pancakes, Fancy Cakes, Speciality etc., etc., Set within shouting distance of hundreds of homes. Local residents if given the chance would buy from them but cannot without paying for entry to the event. But would they order online for local delivery via an App?

The weekend's weather stifled footfall at many open air events and likely prevented people venturing out to pick up takeaways. A match made in heaven for both vendors and those looking for something different to eat.

 

[Fagin2021]

A perfect situation for a bit of lateral thinking.

 

[Shopclicks]

Who delivers the food?
The App covers multiple events?
Each vendor's menu listing is available for the next event?
The Event Organiser advertises the App with a QR code?

 

[WaveJumper]

On the face of it, it sounds like a good idea, but food retailers don’t get “invited” too events they pay general very large sums of money to trade there, its very big business. And at any large event / festival theses traders are rushed off their feet so I cant imagine for a second they would have time to also cater for off site delivery orders. In fact many an event I’ve been to the reverse happens, we order from offsite operators and have it delivered to the gate.

 

[Greg PW Shearman]

The reality is my food stalls turnover too large a quantity at festivals events and markets to be sat in a residential area hoping for custom .

I do have a business in my head similar but in a different format that I am sorting logistics out on.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

I think the problem would be it would be too infrequent for people to know when it was or wasn't available. If said event was every single Saturday, for example, then it might get known as a regular thing (although at that point these vendors could just go on Uber eats and set their opening hours as every Saturday). So you would then be in a position of spending a huge amount of time/money promoting the delivery side of things to make sure people are aware of it, which would probably be better spent promoting the actual event itself.

I can't think of many regular events where people would know it's there every week or every month for example.

On top of that if the event WAS busy, you've then got access issues for a delivery driver trying to get in and out of blocked access roads, or across a busy field or area that's pedestrian only etc.

And finally, depending on the event, the food might actually be one of the main attractions to get people there - if you are then offering them access to that without paying or coming in, the event organisers aren't going to be very happy about it!

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

I like the idea, but it does need further thought.

The thought of a 'temporary' Just Eat/Uber Eat service has merit! Just need to sort out delivery and best ways to market.

This can also be applied markets that are only one or two days a week/month.

 

[MOIC]

Uber, Deliveroo, Just Eat etc etc spend millions on marketing. Everyone knows them, know the food outlets and generally know what they’re getting.

Will the proposed new event have the same draw?

How consistent is the food likely to be with regards to freshness? Food stalls at regular events know their likely sales and amount of produce to bring.

This set-up needs the public visiting the event and seeing what’s on offer from new stall holders, trying, tasting and liking before having confidence on ordering via an app.

The food business needs high foot flow and turnover.

Getting that right for each stall will be a huge challenge in order to build confidence with the local catchment area, as well as to retain vendors.

A difficult ask.

 

[IanSuth]

Only market i can actually see would be to allow punters to click and collect at a set time at a high footfall event like a beer/music festival or sporting event (think day long tournament or long day of racing), allow the vendors to have a steady flow of punters arriving and collecting rather than a huge queue at some times and dead at others.

Still not convinced who would actually pay the fee though customer/vendor/venue ?

 

[BobzYourUncle]

These food app platforms take too much commission from the trader. During covid i had a representives trying to hard sell us just eat platform. I wasn't interested but was intrigued to hear how much they charged. It was somewhere around 18% of the bill total. After a inticing discount period ends for signing up.. Makes street food too expensive for the customer as this will be passed on. We worked out, very general by the way for us, every £20 food order. The customer will be paying £27 (approx) around £7-£8 in extra charges passed on directly or indirectly for having it delivered. Hence in the last few years aswell as price of ultity and food price inflation plus these platforms taking high commission. It has puts alot of fast food outlets out of business who signed up its no longer a cheap option to stop in and eat. Its comparable to eating out at a restaurant. Our local chippy has fisn n chips on these platforms which used to be seen as working class meal is now similar in price to having a steak meal. So for street food type vendors using this app I'm not sure. It dependent on commission would it make it too expensive? It's a good idea in principle. But cost wise I'm not convinced.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Who delivers the food?
The App covers multiple events?
Each vendor's menu listing is available for the next event?
The Event Organiser advertises the App with a QR code?

The Festival Organiser
No, individual events
No
The Event Organiser includes the 'offer' as part of their up front advertising

And at any large event / festival theses traders are rushed off their feet so I cant imagine for a second they would have time to also cater for off site delivery orders.

We're talking manageable local events that charge for entry, not major one's.

The reality is my food stalls turnover too large a quantity at festivals events and markets to be sat in a residential area hoping for custom .

You wouldn't be sat in a residential area waiting for custom. You'd be serving your event customers and taking additional side orders for local delivery.

I can't think of many regular events where people would know it's there every week or every month for example.

On top of that if the event WAS busy, you've then got access issues for a delivery driver trying to get in and out of blocked access roads, or across a busy field or area that's pedestrian only etc.

You wouldn't run the service where the location and access won't work.

Will the proposed new event have the same draw?

There is no new event?

Only market i can actually see would be to allow punters to click and collect at a set time at a high footfall event like a beer/music festival or sporting event (think day long tournament or long day of racing), allow the vendors to have a steady flow of punters arriving and collecting rather than a huge queue at some times and dead at others.

The aim would be to create a second string to take orders. A Beer Festival is a prime example. The potential customer who can't make the event proper could order a 4 pint flagon for home delivery from some obscure Cornish Brewery who's exhibiting in Norfolk!

 

[MOIC]

There is no new event?

The below sounded like a ‘new event’.

New or existing, the principle of the hurdles will be the same.

Picture the scene: Organisers invite food vendors to have a stall/wagon/trailer at the event. Mexican, Thai, Hog Roast, Pancakes, Fancy Cakes, Speciality etc., etc., Set within shouting distance of hundreds of homes. Local residents if given the chance would buy from them but cannot without paying for entry to the event. But would they order online for local delivery via an App?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

First let me say this is an idea, not a business plan

I've had some recent involvement with several small events where food and drink vendors are invited to sell their wares in exchange for a small % on sales. In much the same way as designer shopping outlets pay a percentage of their turnover rather than a fixed rent this can work well for both parties. I don't know if this is typical?
It's in the best interests of the organiser to help swell the sellers coffers so they take on the promotion of the goods on offer within their pre event promotion. The vendors do the same through their social media.

I don't see this as anything more than an add on to smooth out the sales line. If it's raining and your quiet you shout louder. If your busy you don't take on the extra orders.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

The below sounded like a ‘new event’.

New or existing, the principle of the hurdles will be the same.

I was referencing an actual event where several social media posts on one of the vendors pages said 'I wish we knew you were there, we'd have bought some more of your doughnuts!'
This for a fabulous baker who does food markets that most would consider to be out of a comfortable driving distance.

 

[MOIC]

If it's raining and your quiet you shout louder. If your busy you don't take on the extra orders.

So the app is primarily to compensate for lower footfall for the food vendors during inclement weather?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

So the app is primarily to compensate for lower footfall for the food vendors during inclement weather?

That's the angle that triggered my thought processes but there are others such as taking pre orders for collection, promoting their products in areas they don't cover.

The App could also be used to offer incentives & discounts for pre-orders by those attending the event. Many a time I've been to an event, bought a Burger only to find a better alternative in the next aisle.

 

[MOIC]

Many a time I've been to an event, bought a Burger only to find a better alternative in the next aisle.

How would the app help in this instance until trying/tasting? It could give you all the burger stalls and photos, but without trying.

Usually in events the food stalls are in one place, with the rule of thumb being, the longer the queue, the better the food.

I’m trying to find issues with the potential of the app, which is (I presume) the reason for your post.

There may be other benefits for an app created by the organisers, not related to just food stalls.

 

[IanSuth]

The aim would be to create a second string to take orders. A Beer Festival is a prime example. The potential customer who can't make the event proper could order a 4 pint flagon for home delivery from some obscure Cornish Brewery who's exhibiting in Norfolk!

If this is the case I can put you in touch with the people who run the Reading CAMRA beer festival - i know them well as the main couple live in my old house

 

[Drax35]

If I were an event organiser, I'd be worried about an app like this reducing footfall. If the food is the main draw, why pay for a ticket when you can browse and order from your own home?

 

[Paul Carmen]

I think there's no issue with the thought process and it could work. To me there are two very large caveats:

1. The current delivery apps work because there are a vast amount of vendors on them, you can get food delivered any time to almost any location - how would you achieve this, as it would get very little use once downloaded if it was only occasionally in someone's area?
2. The major apps/websites, even with the above pull, still market heavily and run offers all the time to get people to sign and download the apps - how would you get people to use your app, even if there's marketing for events and it includes this, I would think the download rate would be very small?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

How would the app help in this instance until trying/tasting? It could give you all the burger stalls and photos, but without trying.

I'm not aware of a great deal of 'trying and tasting' at normal - non food based - events?

I’m trying to find issues with the potential of the app, which is (I presume) the reason for your post.

I recently helped with and attended an event that for a couple of reasons, the weather being one, saw reduced footfall. Set dead centre in a village of some 5000+ people the food vendors had no way of reaching that potential market. The initial idea is how to increase their income.

If I were an event organiser, I'd be worried about an app like this reducing footfall. If the food is the main draw, why pay for a ticket when you can browse and order from your own home?

That may well be the case for a food based festival but not for eg., a Classic Car show. The aim would be to deliver in a very limited area to people who fancy something different for one night/day only.

 

[Paul Carmen]

I recently helped with and attended an event that for a couple of reasons, the weather being one, saw reduced footfall. Set dead centre in a village of some 5000+ people the food vendors had no way of reaching that potential market. The initial idea is how to increase their income.

They still don't, when they're at the venue they're a captive audience (unless they've brought their own food).

This is a bit like why door dropped flyers now have a very low conversion rate; they'd have to have seen your advert & remember your URL (or have the app already), want food, and then remember your details - rather than just order a takeaway from Just Eat or cook something...

 

[IanSuth]

Thinking about it from a beer festival point of view - the missing piece of the puzzle is that often on the last day (or following the last public day) there is a surplus of beer left which has to be literally poured away.

An app would be useful to sell that left over beer as any £ is pure extra income - but it would have to be "pay for x pints to be collected at y time" variety so as not to delay the breakdown of the event.

 

[MOIC]

I'm not aware of a great deal of 'trying and tasting' at normal - non food based - events?

Ordering food via an app from a food vendor you haven’t tried and don’t know is a risky ask, when the likelihood is that similar foods can be found from the main delivery companies. Until you have confidence in the food vendor, it’s another hurdle to overcome.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

This is a bit like why door dropped flyers now have a very low conversion rate; they'd have to have seen your advert & remember your URL (or have the app already), want food, and then remember your details - rather than just order a takeaway from Just Eat or cook something...

I take your point but most flyers lack time sensitivity. A flyer delivered to 1000 homes offering Mexican food 'on the day' could work better?

To put some perspective on this if the food vendor gets just 4 families buying, lets say £50 worth of takeaway it's £200 they wouldn't get. Possibly ordered up front, collected etc.,

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Ordering food via an app from a food vendor you haven’t tried and don’t know is a risky ask, when the likelihood is that similar foods can be found from the main delivery companies. Until you have confidence in the food vendor, it’s another hurdle to overcome.

I happily take my life in my hands when ordering from a new takeaway! Don't we all?

I'm not sure we have the same experiences of event catering. I'm looking at companies with over 10 years experience who are well known within the region, will sometimes have bricks and mortar premises, have award winning products on their websites and have made a substantial investment in a catering vehicle/stand.

 

[RandyMarsh]

I don't think a separate app solves the original problem. If I was a food vendor at an event and wanted extra sales by delivery I would want to be on the Deliveroo/Just Eat apps for the event location. Then people who pick up their phone looking for food will find me in their search results and the existing ordering and delivery infrastructure will just work. I wouldn't expect a customer to install a separate app to order food from sporadic/rare local events.

So, the best solution to the original problem is for the existing food delivery apps to let mobile food vendors update their location easily.

 

[MOIC]

I happily take my life in my hands when ordering from a new takeaway! Don't we all?

From an app, I would order from a place I know and trust.

I'm not sure we have the same experiences of event catering. I'm looking at companies with over 10 years experience who are well known within the region, will sometimes have bricks and mortar premises, have award winning products on their websites and have made a substantial investment in a catering vehicle/stand.

Now you’re adding new parameters…..

10 years experience.

Well known within the area.

Have bricks & mortar premises.

Have award winning products.

Made substantial investment in a catering stand.

If all the above was the case, then (presumably) they would be on the apps from the usual suspects.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

From an app, I would order from a place I know and trust.



Now you’re adding new parameters…..

10 years experience.

Well known within the area.

Have bricks & mortar premises.

Have award winning products.

Made substantial investment in a catering stand.

If all the above was the case, then (presumably) they would be on the apps from the usual suspects.

No I'm not changing the parameters. I gave one example at the upper end.
You've taken the lowest common denominator and assumed that the vendors cannot be trusted and are unknown. If having 7000 local followers on Facebook, being nominated for county food awards, having 5 star hygiene ratings, an established reputation and a good product is risky then your not the target customer.

NOTE: A McDonalds branch in Leytonstone was recently fined £475k for hygiene breaches.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I don't think a separate app solves the original problem. If I was a food vendor at an event and wanted extra sales by delivery I would want to be on the Deliveroo/Just Eat apps for the event location. Then people who pick up their phone looking for food will find me in their search results and the existing ordering and delivery infrastructure will just work. I wouldn't expect a customer to install a separate app to order food from sporadic/rare local events.

So, the best solution to the original problem is for the existing food delivery apps to let mobile food vendors update their location easily.

You've completely missed the concept...

Deliveroo is the big supermarket, this is the corner shop convenience store....

 

[BobzYourUncle]

I'm in the fast food industry. Like I say your idea sounds great. But logistically for the vendor it has the potential to be a complete and utter nightmare and very chaotic Picture this. You have 50 orders all come in at space of 10mins via the food app.. all have 1 hour delivery time.. food apps have no idea how busy you are already in the kitchen. Has no idea how many physical customer front of house that are already waiting in the queue. Your small store is rammed with orders. You already have very limited equipment. It can only handle so much before breaking point. You are further hindered by manpower again small space you are not able to have as many staff for the capacity of orders as you would like. I haven't even talked about food prep, refrigeration, hot hold cabinets food storage. How would u prep for such an event that involves delivery. Most of the time we can look at historical figures last weeks etc.. impossible with festival vendors. Won't take long before you have a scenario of customers asking where their food is. Because most likely u have run out. Or u can't cook it fast enough. You are unable to honour the orders already taken. In fast food time is your enemy. Even more so for street food vendors.

 

[MOIC]

No I'm not changing the parameters. I gave one example at the upper end.
You've taken the lowest common denominator and assumed that the vendors cannot be trusted and are unknown. If having 7000 local followers on Facebook, being nominated for county food awards, having 5 star hygiene ratings, an established reputation and a good product is risky then your not the target customer.

NOTE: A McDonalds branch in Leytonstone was recently fined £475k for hygiene breaches.

You’re convincing yourself it will work, given the vendor’s status.

My point is simply, if the vendor is in the bracket you have specified, then they will already have exposure with the main take away delivery apps.

Not all food vendors at events I’ve been to fall within the bracket of a ‘5 star food outlet’. Far from it, most are one man bands without a B&M behind them.

Sometimes you can create circumstances that fit into a perceived business model. The reality is far from that, especially when it comes to a food business.

Just my opinion.

 

[Paul Carmen]

You've completely missed the concept...

Deliveroo is the big supermarket, this is the corner shop convenience store....

You've not explained how you think it will actually work.

To use your analogy above, the supermarket is well known in the UK, does online deliveries already with the relevant infrastructure, has an app on peoples phone already, transactional delivery website etc.

The corner shop doesn't usually, and if they do it's often arranged in the shop or over the phone. Again, it's known, but only locally.

Think of your proposition this way - Your travelling food businesses are unknown, your app is unknown, your website is unknown. How do you market it and get people using it for 1 or 2 days a year when a vendor is local to them?

I don't see why they'd not do this on the current food apps, as these are known, the delivery infrastructure is there, apps on phones already etc.

How does your proposition work end to end; e.g. who delivers the food, how do they get into the venues, and how do you market it all without a big VC budget behind it?

Just to see what your potentially up against, we looked at building a simple Covid booking app/website for pubs and restaurants when they reopened after lockdown. This would have given them a proper managed booking system for a few pounds a month. We couldn't give it away. One of the big breweries did develop it as a paid service for their pubs and did end up giving it away in the end, as they'd just use paper and weren't convinced by an app/online solution.

 

[IanSuth]

You've not explained how you think it will actually work.

To use your analogy above, the supermarket is well known in the UK, does online deliveries already with the relevant infrastructure, has an app on peoples phone already, transactional delivery website etc.

The corner shop doesn't usually, and if they do it's often arranged in the shop or over the phone. Again, it's known, but only locally.

Think of your proposition this way - Your travelling food businesses are unknown, your app is unknown, your website is unknown. How do you market it and get people using it for 1 or 2 days a year when a vendor is local to them?

I don't see why they'd not do this on the current food apps, as these are known, the delivery infrastructure is there, apps on phones already etc.

How does your proposition work end to end; e.g. who delivers the food, how do they get into the venues, and how do you market it all without a big VC budget behind it?

Just to see what your potentially up against, we looked at building a simple Covid booking app/website for pubs and restaurants when they reopened after lockdown. This would have given them a proper managed booking system for a few pounds a month. We couldn't give it away. One of the big breweries did develop it as a paid service for their pubs and did end up giving it away in the end, as they'd just use paper and weren't convinced by an app/online solution.

I reckon it has legs as a way of shifting excess surplus product that would be wastage otherwise - likely paid for by the event organiser who otherwise has to pay for disposal (Grondon are not cheap) or pour away profit (I once watch 90 part empty barrels of beer being emptied into the grass as the stillage needed dismantling)

Would be marketed by the organiser as "whether you are at our even or not - look here for special deals on xyz for collection from the front gate"

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

You've not explained how you think it will actually work.

If I may, I'll refer respondents to my opening post which was a simple idea, a request for feedback, so many of the questions I've tried to answer from a position of experience gained from smaller events. How this will actually work is still on the drawing board.

I could give a number of examples where my thinking outside the box has worked very well and floundered later on and this may be one of them.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

I still think you're looking for a market that doesn't exist in enough volume to justify trying to build and market this. Take your example of the beer festival. You've got a potential audience within a, say, 2 mile delivery radius of the festival. You've then got to look at what small % of that market would be interested in trying a beer from an unknown cornish brewery. Then you've got to work out what % of that % won't just go to the beer festival if they want to try it that much. Then you've got to work out what % of that % of that % can't/won't go to the beer festival, BUT are still at home (i.e. not busy doing something else) and want to try the beer, and then you've got to work out what % of that % of that % of that % will have heard about this app and have the inclination to try it. I just don't see how it would be worth the effort to set up and promote.

Would I want to deliver 1000 flyers, on the day of an event, to hope to get an extra £200 in food sales, that I have to faff about with an additional app/tablet for... no, I wouldnt. Because the time, money & effort spent on those flyers would be better spent in some way pushing my food at the actual event I'm at.


As has been mentioned above, the costs for JE/UE/Deliveroo as a vendor are outrageous, and I should know as our business was on two of them. Multiple people have tried to launch a "fairer" app with lower commission fees - either as a standalone app, so one Indian takeaway has an app just for them for example, or in particular there have been some local ones. "Birmingham Grub" or "Eat Preston" or whatever. They have all tried and failed because trying to break that monopoly that the big 3 have is nigh on impossible. So imagine trying to do that, but for something that's sporadic and people don't always know if, what or when anything will be available on it! Which brings me to this....

So, the best solution to the original problem is for the existing food delivery apps to let mobile food vendors update their location easily.

Now this would make some sense, to allow mobile/temporary vendors onto existing platforms with dynamic locations and availability. The platform already has the customer base, you're just giving them an extra option to choose from when they are browsing what to order for lunch - that's a BIG difference compared to actively trying to get people to install and use a new app specifically for one off events. For example sometimes (in fact too often) I order lunch when I'm busy working from home. Sometimes I log on and subways available, I might order it. Other times they're offline, I get something else. Sometimes it's after 2pm and some of the usual lunch places have closed....fine, I choose a different one. If I logged on and there was a food vendor from a local event was suddenly showing online.... sure, maybe I'd give it a go.

I reckon it has legs as a way of shifting excess surplus product that would be wastage otherwise - likely paid for by the event organiser who otherwise has to pay for disposal (Grondon are not cheap) or pour away profit (I once watch 90 part empty barrels of beer being emptied into the grass as the stillage needed dismantling)

Would be marketed by the organiser as "whether you are at our even or not - look here for special deals on xyz for collection from the front gate"

Which could be done by partnering with an existing app as above, in this case TooGoodToGo.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Would I want to deliver 1000 flyers, on the day of an event, to hope to get an extra £200 in food sales, that I have to faff about with an additional app/tablet for... no, I wouldnt. Because the time, money & effort spent on those flyers would be better spent in some way pushing my food at the actual event I'm at.

....and if your business and food offer had been promoted on the events website and social media free of charge so you could take up front orders, if delivery was handled by the event organiser, you wouldn't want to take part?

I don't think you get the concept of creating something and making it work. In this case a specific group of vendors dropping into an area for one night only, the group promotion of which adds gravitas that couldn't be achieved by shotgun browsing of Deliveroo.

Now I don't know if it will work well enough but I once came up with a similar crazy idea of printing t-shirts with a food offer for a nearby pub printed on the back. Worn by the barmaids, 'Buy a Pizza to take home' promoted with banners and flyers for outsiders to pre order, the concept worked. The biggest problem was, as has been alluded to by someone in an earlier post, that controlling the flow of business was impossible. They only had one Pizza oven!

 

[MOIC]

. . . In this case a specific group of vendors dropping into an area for one night only

That’s the flaw.

A specific group (5 star vendor etc etc from your earlier posts), will not be interested in moving lock stock and barrel for one night. Think kitchen staff, traveling costs, set-up, cooking/heating appliances, serving & packaging, stand design, signage, admin costs . . . . All for a one night event that may not fit your profile customer, with the risk of rain and relying on an app for orders?

Nope.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

That’s the flaw.

A specific group (5 star vendor etc etc from your earlier posts), will not be interested in moving lock stock and barrel for one night. Think kitchen staff, traveling costs, set-up, cooking/heating appliances, serving & packaging, stand design, signage, admin costs . . . . All for a one night event that may not fit your profile customer, with the risk of rain and relying on an app for orders?

Nope.

Who's posts are you reading?

The vendors - and I can't think where I've suggested they are 5 star - will already be set up at the event!

 

[MOIC]

If having 7000 local followers on Facebook, being nominated for county food awards, having 5 star hygiene ratings

Ahh 5 Star hygiene ratings . . . . .

Nominated for county food awards would suggest a top rated food outlet.

Trying to critique your app idea is what your post needs, by negating people's suggestions (especially those with experience in food who have posted), suggests that you don't want to hear any potential issues.

Why post, if you're convinced it will work?