Feel bad on sacking someone

[Newchodge]

The benefit cap for a childless couple is £22k pa. That's the *maximum* you can get, not what you will get. Deduct rent, council tax and energy bills, and that doesn't leave much.

The only benefit that I'm aware of that gives you a vehicle is when PIP is used to pay for a mobility scooter, so I don't see how this girl was supposedly given a car. Sounds like one of these "a friend of a friend told me".

There used to be a mobility scheme (Motability?) that gave people in receipt of disability benefits the right to a vehicle. That was scrapped in 2011, I believe,

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

You know, like working in factories, like most ordinary people used to do before we collectively lost our marbles.

.or retail shops like Wilko, Woolworths, Debenhams, Maplin, Harveys, Bensons etc., etc., The reality is the jobs you talk of no longer exist!

On top of all that, it's a risk for some of the benefits claimants to take a job. We actually need a supportive benefits system, allowing people to get in to work, back them up with some money for a while and then gradually slide the benefits down as they become full time employees. At the moment, they cut you off as soon as you get a job, leaving you with no way of being able to afford to get to work and pay bills for the first couple of months.

Been saying this for years, since losing a well paid job in the early 90's and finding the bridge between what I needed to survive and support my family, didn't exist. Little has changed.

 

[IanSuth]

There used to be a mobility scheme (Motability?) that gave people in receipt of disability benefits the right to a vehicle. That was scrapped in 2011, I believe,

They now get the right to lease a car on a deal but if they lose benefits they are still tied into the lease.

As a company we used to find engineers for Gowrings Motability to adapt vehicles - the workshop shut down when the rules changed. Also have a mate with Cerebral Palsy who used to have one of their cars adapted for hand controls now he has to make do with a preconfigured one

 

[IanSuth]

.or retail shops like Wilko, Woolworths, Debenhams, Maplin, Harveys, Bensons etc., etc., The reality is the jobs you talk of no longer exist!


Been saying this for years, since losing a well paid job in the early 90's and finding the bridge between what I needed to survive and support my family, didn't exist. Little has changed.

At least back then housing benefit would for a while help cover your mortgage

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

At least back then housing benefit would for a while help cover your mortgage

Not in my situation it didn't.

Mortgage rates hitting 15% crucified all avenues out of a difficult situation. Had I been allowed to take a lower paid job without losing ALL support it would have bought me time to sort everything out and removed my burden on the taxpayer. Unfortunately the benefits system was all or nothing and I was forced to play it or lose everything.

 

[IanSuth]

Not in my situation it didn't.

Mortgage rates hitting 15% crucified all avenues out of a difficult situation. Had I been allowed to take a lower paid job without losing ALL support it would have bought me time to sort everything out and removed my burden on the taxpayer. Unfortunately the benefits system was all or nothing and I was forced to play it or lose everything.

i remember in 94 or 5 getting a job offer for an unemployed guy at £28k - he said they had to hit £30k min or else as soon as he started work and had to pay all his mortgage again and he would be left with negative money each month and as he was in negative equity he couldnt even sell to solve the issue

 

[Newchodge]

At least back then housing benefit would for a while help cover your mortgage

On the point of someone getting a car when they cannot drive. A person with severe visual impairment would get a car for someone else to drive them. The same for children with disabilities

 

[Scott DLE]

Universal credit for say a single job seeker is pretty low. Being a single parent with kids it’s not too bad or claiming PIP or other health issue benefits for say a kid that has slight autism. Bare in mind it’s not just the cash it’s also housing and council tax benefits.

I know plenty of people who game the system and have more holidays and a better (free) car than I do. So I definitely see why people get cheesed off.

The system is pretty broken especially the tax credit part. It incentivises people on on part time hours to not take on more hours as it’s not worth their while.

There should definitely be a more European model here where after say 6 months your on basic allowance and helped to re train in something like a bin man. Same with the NHS, a more European model like France or Spain would be much better.

 

[japancool]

Bare in mind it’s not just the cash it’s also housing and council tax benefits.

Universal credit has no council tax element. You still have to pay it. Any council tax relief is decided on and funded by local councils.

And if you get housing, you don't get the housing element of universal credit.

and a better (free) car than I do.

Are they blind or have disabled children?

 

[Scott DLE]

Universal credit has no council tax element. You still have to pay it. Any council tax relief is decided on and funded by local councils.

And if you get housing, you don't get the housing element of universal credit.

Are they blind or have disabled children?

You don’t have to pay council tax just water rates in Scotland when on benefits. The housing part is included in your overal amount though unlike when it was JSA.

To answer the question on blind or disabled child. Nope! You can get a car when you have full PIP, you also get an extra £100 per child up here no matter what benefit you get. Not to mention the Scottish social security doesn’t run the same assessments as people get ti check if they are definitely entitled to PIP.

If you want to be on the dole then the best place in UK to do it is in Scotland.

 

[japancool]

Huh. Well, I dunno about free cars, but £100 per child doesn't seem excessive, not if you're looking after them properly.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

i remember in 94 or 5 getting a job offer for an unemployed guy at £28k - he said they had to hit £30k min or else as soon as he started work and had to pay all his mortgage again and he would be left with negative money each month and as he was in negative equity he couldnt even sell to solve the issue

Not dissimilar to myself although I couldn't get a job earning anywhere near the £30k I'd been earning and was unable to take a £12k pa one with total loss of support as we had a 6 month old. Daft thing about it is that everyone at the social understood and agreed with me and here we are 30+ years later and nothing much has changed.

 

[Mr D]

.....because they can't just take ANY job. To do a 'job' you have to match the skill set required by the employer PLUS if you put a job advert out, you'll get 30 applicants. They have a 1 in 30 chance of getting that one job, 24 of them won't even get to an interview, they have to wait for the next job to come up that is within a commutable distance and matches their skills/employment experience.

In the north of england, the chances of getting a profitable job is reduced even further, as there are simply not enough employers with enough vacancies. If you go on one of the job sites and say 'oh look, there's 30,000 jobs, why aren't they all filled blah blah' because 30,000 jobs require 30,000 different skill sets/personalities/locations. Also, not all jobs advertised are equal. Some are part time, some are temporary, some require temporary relocation for a contracted time, some are just terribly paid jobs that will leave you depressed.

Have you seen property rental prices, £800 p/month for a 1 bed flat? You also need a 3 month deposit. So, to move to an area with a suitable job that matches your skill set, you'll need a few grand in the bank first. Hence, you get people in limbo, they can't afford to move to where the job is, there's a limited pool of jobs in their area, they don't have support and training on hand to allow them to expand their opportunities.

The other thing to consider is that the 'work shy' make up a tiny percentage of the actual population. The cost of keeping them is in the low millions - then have a look at HS2, billions gone, look at the COVID loans given away and never recovered - billions gone.

On top of all that, it's a risk for some of the benefits claimants to take a job. We actually need a supportive benefits system, allowing people to get in to work, back them up with some money for a while and then gradually slide the benefits down as they become full time employees. At the moment, they cut you off as soon as you get a job, leaving you with no way of being able to afford to get to work and pay bills for the first couple of months.

Cutting benefits is not going to work. Look at countries that have no benefit system. What do you get? Homeless people, lots of them, thousands. Increased thefts, leading to assaults, leading to drug taking, drug dealing.....it's a spiral of doom. Let's not do that! Let's try something different.

Back when I was on benefits I was on incapacity benefit
Jobcentre were pretty bad at helping find a job, they kept sending me details of driving jobs (I am banned for life) and outdoor jobs (cannot do).
I did find a job through my own contacts and worked that for several years.


More recently I went 4 years applying for jobs. One interview, out of probably several thousand applications. Got the job.
Luckily enough not dealing with jobcentre, sanctions and all the crap they apply to people.
And its my dream job.

Used to deal with the jobcentre on occasion with my old employer. They sent us people who were totally unsuited for the work. Needed a trained professional, they sent untrained people desperate for work. One didn't speak English - great as a counsellor? Probably not.

 

[Mr D]

You mean all those factories we no longer have because we outsourced everything to China?

I suppose they could all become Uber drivers or deliver takeaways.

I guess I must count too, because I claim PIP. But not to worry, as soon as my leg grows back, I'll stop claiming for it.

This would be in the country that is usually in the top 10 manufacturing output countries?
Plenty of factories around. Has your local town got any industrial estates?

 

[Mr D]

There used to be a mobility scheme (Motability?) that gave people in receipt of disability benefits the right to a vehicle. That was scrapped in 2011, I believe,

Motability was the leasing company, the biggest in Europe.
People still lease vehicles, my brother in law has one with modified vehicle (which he had to pay for modifications) apart from that just costs him petrol.
Have to get DLA or PIP higher mobility rate for minimum period of 3 years left and can get a car in weeks.

 

[Mr D]

You don’t have to pay council tax just water rates in Scotland when on benefits. The housing part is included in your overal amount though unlike when it was JSA.

To answer the question on blind or disabled child. Nope! You can get a car when you have full PIP, you also get an extra £100 per child up here no matter what benefit you get. Not to mention the Scottish social security doesn’t run the same assessments as people get ti check if they are definitely entitled to PIP.

If you want to be on the dole then the best place in UK to do it is in Scotland.

Unable to walk 50 metres to get PIP mobility element at top rate.

You know, I'd prefer ability to walk.

 

[Blood Lust]

Hi all

Took on a nice Ukrainian lady on for a customer service position about 2 months ago but things are just not working out.

She is not picking it up and is making the same mistakes over and over again.

I need to let her go but I will feel awful as she is very nice and has a mortgage to pay.

I could potentially ask her to change role and give her a position in our warehouse but it would have to be less pay.

I have not got the heart to sack her but my business will suffer if I don’t.

Any advice is appreciated, thank you

My own approach to a new employee in a customer service role would be to set out a 6 month new starter plan with them. It would include where they need to be at the 1, 2, 3, and 6 month stages along with the performance standards expected from them. Then I would train them rather than leaving that to their same level colleagues to make sure they learn everything correctly.

At the 1, 2, 3, and 6 month stage I would evaluate where they are up too and deliver either the positive or negative feedback. Failing a month would not result in their termination, but would require a commitment from them to get where they need to be. At the 6 months stage I would either say they passed their trial, they failed but we can allow them extra time as they are nearly there, or let go.

Letting go of those who will not be able to perform is crucial but only after you have a robust plan above along with checking they are trained properly. Otherwise you might get rid of one who isn`t performing due to a business failure rather than their own abilities or work ethic.

I would also advise evaluating the office culture when management isn`t present. There will be employees spreading negativity (there always is). The question is has that negativity lowered what the employee believes are the norms for performance in the office? If so you need to challenge the source, letting them know negativity spreads, it undermines performance, and if it continues from them they will not be getting anywhere at the business.

Difficult conversations make managers feel bad, well at least until you get used to doing it. The best bit of advice is to put yourself into the mindset where this is what doing business involves.

 

[DerekGM6]

The benefit cap for a childless couple is £22k pa. That's the *maximum* you can get, not what you will get. Deduct rent, council tax and energy bills, and that doesn't leave much.

The only benefit that I'm aware of that gives you a vehicle is when PIP is used to pay for a mobility scooter, so I don't see how this girl was supposedly given a car. Sounds like one of these "a friend of a friend told me".

I was a passenger in the car on several occasions. A 2021/2 Vauxhall Corsa. As she had no driving licence her boyfriend drove her around in it. Is that enough evidence for you? There are plenty of people being awarded nice cars for disabilities of one sort or another, and if you go onto YouTube you will find lots of videos of people explaining the ins and outs of how to pick and get the best out of your Motability car.
As for the girl. the latest news is that it has been determined that her claim for "mental illness" was fraudulent, and the car has been reclaimed. I doubt if she is the only person in the country in on the welfare largesse scam.

 

[Newchodge]

I was a passenger in the car on several occasions. A 2021/2 Vauxhall Corsa. As she had no driving licence her boyfriend drove her around in it. Is that enough evidence for you? There are plenty of people being awarded nice cars for disabilities of one sort or another, and if you go onto YouTube you will find lots of videos of people explaining the ins and outs of how to pick and get the best out of your Motability car.
As for the girl. the latest news is that it has been determined that her claim for "mental illness" was fraudulent, and the car has been reclaimed. I doubt if she is the only person in the country in on the welfare largesse scam.

What exactly is your problem. You know a person who committed benefit fraud and was found out. So what?

 

[IanSuth]

It is well proven that those who want to commit benefit fraud are far far more capable of negotiating the labyrinthine switchbacks of the benefits system than those that really need the safety net

Surely the solution is to make the system simple and more transparent to remove the loopholes

NOT to reduce the payment amounts so those needing help don't get enough or just give up trying and moulder in a corner

That was the original plan for universal credit but then they started fiddling with it to try and save money and guess what - those who want to scam can and those that need it suffer

 

[japancool]

I was a passenger in the car on several occasions. A 2021/2 Vauxhall Corsa. As she had no driving licence her boyfriend drove her around in it. Is that enough evidence for you?

No. As @Newchodge says above, so someone committed fraud, does that mean that EVERYONE should have their benefits reduced, as you are implying when you say "anybody who thinks that benefits are too low really needs a reality check."?

In one breath you say benefits aren't too low, then in the next breath you complain about someone who wasn't entitled to the benefits that they claimed. How does one have anything to do with the other?

There will be people who have received a car who DO deserve it.

And if you're going to get a Motobility vehicle, why should you not get the best out of it? Are you suggesting that Granny Smith at number 9 doesn't deserve her mobility scooter, and she shouldn't get the best one available?

 

[japancool]

Some business owners fiddle the tax system. Clearly, business owners get too much money! Tax them more!

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Used to deal with the jobcentre on occasion with my old employer. They sent us people who were totally unsuited for the work.

When I was recruiting for a telesales role I was sent 2 people who 'were good at talking, as long as they didn't have to be on the phone all day'!

When I was out of work I was told |I had to take the role of Toilet Cleaner at the nearby public convenience.

Hopefully the Job Centre staff are better trained these days?

 

[Byzantium]

I knew the benefits system was completely broken when the labour government started giving me tax credits.

Yes, Tony Bliar and that fool Broon who sold the nation's gold for magic beans put half the country on benefits and "created" a million jobs employing workers to dole out our free money!

 

[Byzantium]

You really have no idea. Benefits are already below bare subsistence levels, can be withdrawn for the slightest reason, like failing to attend an appointmemt because you were unconscious in hospital following an RTA and those on benefits find it near impossible to live, indeed many die from poverty on them. Perhaps your name should rflect your ideas - Byzantian?

Sadly, it is you who are delusional, not me.

Your outlandish argument that the general conversation should revolve around the 1 in a million chance of someone being unable to attend an interview because they have been hit by a car just highlights that you conveniently ignore the 999,999 other people who didn't get hit by a car.

At least have the common sense to discuss the majority, not the outlier events.

You and a lot of others who are happy to redistribute my taxes seem to think that benefits should be able to sustain life indefinitely at a level which might be akin to the minimum wage but where I differ is that I think benefits should be an absolute minimum to cover unforeseen unemployment. No Sky TV, no holidays, no takeaways, no cigarettes, no alcohol, no lottery, no gambling, no new clothes, nothing above sustenance at a basic level.

I interview quite a few people who are on benefits and almost without exception, they have modern or expensive mobile phones, usually on high contract costs. They have an increasing number of tattoos, have a higher than normal tendency to smoke and drink and eat out or have takeaways rather than cooking at home.

Their perception of money is warped because they get it for free. They do not work for it and work is actually an interference in their day "job" of doing nothing, mostly browsing the internet and Facebook.

Often they only want a certain amount of hours so they can claim benefits or more benefits and even tough they can work full time, they do not want to because benefits, at the margins, are almost as generous as wages. I cannot fault their logic if working 10 hours extra at £12 an hour and getting £120 before stoppages and perhaps £90 net will result in an £80 reduction in their benefits.

They have no correlation that the money they get from benefits is actually the money I pay in taxes. In effect (and indirectly) they are robbing me of my financial future because they are too idle to work full time.

Now in this example, if benefits were non existent, they would work full time and they would live on that sum of money. If there were top up benefits that encouraged working more, not less, then that might be a start but when benefits are so great that wages are refused, you know the system is broken.

I don't profess to have all the answers but not every kid has AHAD, not every 3rd person needs invalidity or health related benefits, half the country should not be on universal credit and if you can work then you should work and unemployment should not be a way of life and certainly not a cushy lifestyle option which it is, for millions of workshy people.

 

[Byzantium]

I am quite right wing but you are a fruit cake with a lack of understanding

The current administration have already done this sadly they attacked the disabled and genuine vulnerable people that needed the help.

Do you expect these people to just starve and then stop breathing
Ironically the government at the moment have a lot of support from people like you despite the fact that these supporters are just a couple of months salary away from homelessness

Turkeys voting for Christmas

I would have hoped that you could see the country is broken financially but perhaps worse than that would be to acknowledge that the UK is bankrupt but as the water comes into the boat, instead of bailing the water out, you not only want to add more people to the boat but you are also drilling holes in the floor to let more water in and encouraging your new found friends to do the same.

You really want to take us all down don't you ?

It is not the job of any government to provide such a largess in terms of a "safety net" that people have a genuine lifestyle choice of never working, pretending to be sick or more ill than they are to get additional benefits.

Do you see why every day the UK is under siege from hundreds of illegal economic migrants who know more about our benefits system than you or I do ? They travel half the world, not because of torture or ill treatment but solely to get their hands on our benefits. Now we put them up in 4* hotels when ex servicemen die on the streets.

Nevertheless, if people choose not to save but to waste their money then why is it my job, as one who funds the government, to pay for their fecklessness ? Do you have any logical answer to that ?

 

[Mr D]

Sadly, it is you who are delusional, not me.

Your outlandish argument that the general conversation should revolve around the 1 in a million chance of someone being unable to attend an interview because they have been hit by a car just highlights that you conveniently ignore the 999,999 other people who didn't get hit by a car.

At least have the common sense to discuss the majority, not the outlier events.

You and a lot of others who are happy to redistribute my taxes seem to think that benefits should be able to sustain life indefinitely at a level which might be akin to the minimum wage but where I differ is that I think benefits should be an absolute minimum to cover unforeseen unemployment. No Sky TV, no holidays, no takeaways, no cigarettes, no alcohol, no lottery, no gambling, no new clothes, nothing above sustenance at a basic level.

I interview quite a few people who are on benefits and almost without exception, they have modern or expensive mobile phones, usually on high contract costs. They have an increasing number of tattoos, have a higher than normal tendency to smoke and drink and eat out or have takeaways rather than cooking at home.

Their perception of money is warped because they get it for free. They do not work for it and work is actually an interference in their day "job" of doing nothing, mostly browsing the internet and Facebook.

Often they only want a certain amount of hours so they can claim benefits or more benefits and even tough they can work full time, they do not want to because benefits, at the margins, are almost as generous as wages. I cannot fault their logic if working 10 hours extra at £12 an hour and getting £120 before stoppages and perhaps £90 net will result in an £80 reduction in their benefits.

They have no correlation that the money they get from benefits is actually the money I pay in taxes. In effect (and indirectly) they are robbing me of my financial future because they are too idle to work full time.

Now in this example, if benefits were non existent, they would work full time and they would live on that sum of money. If there were top up benefits that encouraged working more, not less, then that might be a start but when benefits are so great that wages are refused, you know the system is broken.

I don't profess to have all the answers but not every kid has AHAD, not every 3rd person needs invalidity or health related benefits, half the country should not be on universal credit and if you can work then you should work and unemployment should not be a way of life and certainly not a cushy lifestyle option which it is, for millions of workshy people.

Says the poster who is using the minority as examples.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I would have hoped that you could see the country is broken financially but perhaps worse than that would be to acknowledge that the UK is bankrupt but as the water comes into the boat, instead of bailing the water out, you not only want to add more people to the boat but you are also drilling holes in the floor to let more water in and encouraging your new found friends to do the same.

You really want to take us all down don't you ?

It is not the job of any government to provide such a largess in terms of a "safety net" that people have a genuine lifestyle choice of never working, pretending to be sick or more ill than they are to get additional benefits.

Do you see why every day the UK is under siege from hundreds of illegal economic migrants who know more about our benefits system than you or I do ? They travel half the world, not because of torture or ill treatment but solely to get their hands on our benefits. Now we put them up in 4* hotels when ex servicemen die on the streets.

Nevertheless, if people choose not to save but to waste their money then why is it my job, as one who funds the government, to pay for their fecklessness ? Do you have any logical answer to that ?

Load of bollocks

There are billions and trillions of pounds Euros and dollars floating around out there
Yes I will except that those employed don't have the spending power at the moment due to inflationary pressures.
This is still a good country and an excellent place to do business despite our leaving the EU recently

Immigrants Despite me living in a sea going part of the country I have yet to meet a little man that has appeared here in a boat . The migration problem is blown out of all proportion and is a gimmick for a government that built its own problem by dismantling the processing system
If you think seeking asylum is this country for 35 quid a week is fun then you crack on son
This asylum problem is not even a real everyday issue for anybody on this forum or anybody I know

Benefits, Nobody does well on benefits anymore certainly not as well as they were doing under labour .Once again I am very concerned about the lack of support for the disabled they should be able to live on a liveable wage without fear

I don't know what happened in your life to make you despise those that are less fortunate than yourself but a successful country looks after its unfortunate souls. It taxes its successful businesses and people to provide a strong state . This in turn contributes to a successful economy

I feel sorry for you ,you obviously live in some sort of hell hole that is completely dragging you down and blaming everybody else for your own failings

 

[japancool]

Hah, it didn't take long to move from benefits to asylum seekers. What a surprise.

 

[japancool]

I don't know what happened in your life to make you despise those that are less fortunate than yourself but a successful country looks after its unfortunate souls.

THIS.

Why is it that those of this ilk target and blame the most vulnerable, those who are most in need of protection?

With apologies to Martin Niemoller:
First they came for the climate change activists
And I did not speak out
Because I did not believe in climate change

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the poor
And I did not speak out
Because I was not poor

Then they came for the refugees
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a refugee

Then they came for the doctors, nurses and teachers
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a doctor, nurse or teacher

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 

[Scott DLE]

Load of bollocks

There are billions and trillions of pounds Euros and dollars floating around out there
Yes I will except that those employed don't have the spending power at the moment due to inflationary pressures.
This is still a good country and an excellent place to do business despite our leaving the EU recently

Immigrants Despite me living in a sea going part of the country I have yet to meet a little man that has appeared here in a boat . The migration problem is blown out of all proportion and is a gimmick for a government that built its own problem by dismantling the processing system
If you think seeking asylum is this country for 35 quid a week is fun then you crack on son
This asylum problem is not even a real everyday issue for anybody on this forum or anybody I know

Benefits, Nobody does well on benefits anymore certainly not as well as they were doing under labour .Once again I am very concerned about the lack of support for the disabled they should be able to live on a liveable wage without fear

I don't know what happened in your life to make you despise those that are less fortunate than yourself but a successful country looks after its unfortunate souls. It taxes its successful businesses and people to provide a strong state . This in turn contributes to a successful economy

I feel sorry for you ,you obviously live in some sort of hell hole that is completely dragging you down and blaming everybody else for your own failings

Maybe just other people have different experiences than yourself, that doesn’t make his points invalid.

There are!! People plenty of people gaming the welfare system. There are plenty of people capable of working who don’t bother their shirt.

When we are recruiting Labour for the busy summer season nearly every second person asks if they can get cash in hand as on benefits. When we say nope they say sorry can’t do temp work as will lose benefits and not worth that hastie.

Load of bollocks

There are billions and trillions of pounds Euros and dollars floating around out there
Yes I will except that those employed don't have the spending power at the moment due to inflationary pressures.
This is still a good country and an excellent place to do business despite our leaving the EU recently

Immigrants Despite me living in a sea going part of the country I have yet to meet a little man that has appeared here in a boat . The migration problem is blown out of all proportion and is a gimmick for a government that built its own problem by dismantling the processing system
If you think seeking asylum is this country for 35 quid a week is fun then you crack on son
This asylum problem is not even a real everyday issue for anybody on this forum or anybody I know

Benefits, Nobody does well on benefits anymore certainly not as well as they were doing under labour .Once again I am very concerned about the lack of support for the disabled they should be able to live on a liveable wage without fear

I don't know what happened in your life to make you despise those that are less fortunate than yourself but a successful country looks after its unfortunate souls. It taxes its successful businesses and people to provide a strong state . This in turn contributes to a successful economy

I feel sorry for you ,you obviously live in some sort of hell hole that is completely dragging you down and blaming everybody else for your own failings

I wish I lived in your realty. The country and a heck of a lot of people are in debt up to their eyeballs. Quantitative easing might help loads of money to float about the country but it’s gradually becoming worthless.

Debt is catching up with people now as interest rates are actually getting to a normal percentage.

Also loads of folk are playing the benefit system the way the chap has explained. Don’t get me wrong, I think he probably needs to take a step back as absolutely zero he can do about it and he’s taking it to personal. The bigger picture is that not his taxes not mine and pretty much none of us unless your in the 10% are actually paying very much for welfare recipients or asylum seekers etc. It’s all debt!

The systems in the UK such as NHS , infrastructure, housing are all broken. I can see why some people get frustrated, but blaming migrants and benefits folk isn’t the way. The system is shambolic with too much red tape and that’s what’s holding the country back.

 

[IanSuth]

Maybe just other people have different experiences than yourself, that doesn’t make his points invalid.

There are!! People plenty of people gaming the welfare system. There are plenty of people capable of working who don’t bother their shirt.

When we are recruiting Labour for the busy summer season nearly every second person asks if they can get cash in hand as on benefits. When we say nope they say sorry can’t do temp work as will lose benefits and not worth that hastie.

I wish I lived in your realty. The country and a heck of a lot of people are in debt up to their eyeballs. Quantitative easing might help loads of money to float about the country but it’s gradually becoming worthless.

Debt is catching up with people now as interest rates are actually getting to a normal percentage.

Also loads of folk are playing the benefit system the way the chap has explained. Don’t get me wrong, I think he probably needs to take a step back as absolutely zero he can do about it and he’s taking it to personal. The bigger picture is that not his taxes not mine and pretty much none of us unless your in the 10% are actually paying very much for welfare recipients or asylum seekers etc. It’s all debt!

The systems in the UK such as NHS , infrastructure, housing are all broken. I can see why some people get frustrated, but blaming migrants and benefits folk isn’t the way. The system is shambolic with too much red tape and that’s what’s holding the country back.

OK to cover a couple of those points - the issue people won't take temp work is universal credit.

The system for claiming it is so slow and cumbersome if you do a couple of weeks temp work it can take 9 or 10 weeks to get it back afterwards - even with the possibility of back payments for those weeks (which are not guaranteed) you are talking about people without savings - UC covers housing costs as well unlike when housing benefit was separate.

So do a few weeks temp work and declare it - run the risk of losing your accommodation whilst it gets set up again afterwards.

The issue is the way the systems are administered as you say re too much red tape - i will give you a recent experience of mine with student finance. I have a daughter training as an NHS Physio in London in her 3rd year.
Because i had a large redundancy payment in Apr 2021 sfe consider that income and she was not eligible for a loan last year, however by doing a manual "in year assessment" they would look at true income and decide what she was able to claim for this year and maybe back apply for last year (as she is living in London and can't work due to unpaid work placements the loan is needed)
The application makes you upload (by pdf or jpg image as they don't accept email) copies of evidence for everything they want - unlike a normal assessment they won't just use their link to HMRC) they for example want your unearned income including interest - for EVERY account to the nearest penny, yep even that old NS&I account with £26 in it that pays about 16p interest - oh and to save paper NS&I no longer produce paper statements for accounts with less that £500 and you cant manage the old accounts online either.
But you cant talk to a manager, you can request a call back within a week. Then that manager says "oh don't worry just submit without it they dont check small amounts" when asked if they would but that in writing and tell me how small was small the answer was "no we don't have outbound email and not allowed to send a letter to you, also i don't know the amount it isnt set, oh and if we ask for extra evidence you have 14 days to provide or entire application goes back to square 1"

I suspect that the reason asylum seekers are in hotels is partly for political reasons but mainly because the system to evaluate their claims is equally broken and cumbersome

who here as ever had a good experience with HMRC when trying to sort out a tax issue ?

The civil service is a disaster from top to bottom - they need to start a new parallel organisation, create new systems from scratch then migrate users one department at a time. It would cost billions initially but I reckon it would likely pay for itself inside a few years then make the country more efficient to run.

 

[japancool]

If someone takes a temp job that results in them earning more than the UC threshold (which is 40 x min. wage pw) for more than 2 months, their claim ends and they have to begin the whole process over again. I imagine a lot of summer labour falls into that camp.

 

[Newchodge]

If someone takes a temp job that results in them earning more than the UC threshold (which is 40 x min. wage pw) for more than 2 months, their claim ends and they have to begin the whole process over again. I imagine a lot of summer labour falls into that camp.

I claimed benefits in the 1980's as a mature student, during the sumer holiday (you could in those days!). I was signed on with a temp agency that gave me work, on average every other week. I signed on, got an assignment, signed off, assignment ended, signed on and started the enitre process from the beginning every time. I asked if they couldn't just suspend the claim, as I would usually be able to tell them how long I would be working, but they said the system didn't allow it. So that is, actually an improvment. Except in the 1980's the claim was decided and paid in under 2 weeks.

 

[DontAsk]

I claimed too, in the 80s but my parents made me give most of it to them for "keep". Queuing up every two weeks at the job centre (don't think it was called that, then) was soul destroying.

 

[Newchodge]

I claimed too, in the 80s but my parents made me give most of it to them for "keep". Queuing up every two weeks at the job centre (don't think it was called that, then) was soul destroying.

I wasn't living with my parents at the time, but when I had been, earlier, I had to pay my share of all the family expenses, from the day I left school. What's wrong with that?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

The civil service is a disaster from top to bottom - they need to start a new parallel organisation, create new systems from scratch then migrate users one department at a time. It would cost billions initially but I reckon it would likely pay for itself inside a few years then make the country more efficient to run.

A Civil Servant friend who managed one of the most important roles in the organisation was asked to determine the maximum percentage of staff loss his department could manage and still function. The figure, something like 7% became 14% overnight, and increased another 4% inside 12 months. The job became one of putting out fires with minimal pro-active activity.

 

[IanSuth]

A Civil Servant friend who managed one of the most important roles in the organisation was asked to determine the maximum percentage of staff loss his department could manage and still function. The figure, something like 7% became 14% overnight, and increased another 4% inside 12 months. The job became one of putting out fires with minimal pro-active activity.

My argument is not that the civil service doesnt need the number of people it has (plus more) to do the work it is set - my argument is the the work it is set is stupid due to a hundred years of fiddling with the rules and regs for everything.

Start again, rewrite the rules for everything in a simpler less convoluted manner, then staff departments to implement those rules

Rather than rewrite the rules for every edge case have teams of experienced people who are empowered to make proactive decisions on those - no point spending £100k arguing with a company over the minutae of tax small print which is worth £200 (we had for example an investigation into the old company as we sent bouquets of flowers to mail members of staff's wives who gave birth - not given to all so Bik)

 

[Newchodge]

My argument is not that the civil service doesnt need the number of people it has (plus more) to do the work it is set - my argument is the the work it is set is stupid due to a hundred years of fiddling with the rules and regs for everything.

Start again, rewrite the rules for everything in a simpler less convoluted manner, then staff departments to implement those rules

Rather than rewrite the rules for every edge case have teams of experienced people who are empowered to make proactive decisions on those - no point spending £100k arguing with a company over the minutae of tax small print which is worth £200 (we had for example an investigation into the old company as we sent bouquets of flowers to mail members of staff's wives who gave birth - not given to all so Bik)

An example about how the civil service changes:

I worked for the passport office. I applied for the job in July, was interviewed in October and told I had the job subject to security vetting. The vetting was completed and I started the job in March. I couldn't start the necessary training until I had computer access, that didn't happen until May. After formal training I was only allowed to do basic applications until I had more experience. When I was considered to have the necessary experience I was given additional training. I started doing the normal range of work in November - 16 months from job application to full role.

After Covid there was a huge spike in passport applications which had been anticipated but was difficult to plan for, I was refused permission for a 6 week secondment to work on the census in April 2021 because of the anticipated spike coming our way. It didn't materialise until around June, when the passport world went mad. Management had been trying to recruit additional staff in the usual way but the time scales were just not going to work.

So they insisted on security vetting being completed in a much shorter time. Which involved recruiting more vetting staff etc. They demanded computer access within 7 days of start date, which involved recruiting more staff. Both sets of recruitment were 100% internal, reducing the 'active' number of staff. They ended formal, centrally provided training and implemented more peer training. Which, of course, removed the experienced workers from their role while they were training the newbies. When we were still getting further and further behind they introduced agency staff: minimal vetting, minimal training and limited work role.

They did try to change their working practices to deal with the situation, but virtually everything they did resulted in more work for the experienced workers , who were paid no extra , so cost less than the agency staff who cost more than us because they got the same salary and agency fees had to be paid on top. Many experienced people left.

Everything they did was fire fighting and no one had the ability to see the very obvious consequences of their decisions. I don't think you can solve many of the civil service issues without a top down clearout. The mental processesa re just not there.

 

[japancool]

Civil service review 'to urge Treasury break-up'

Lord Maude's report is also expected to recommend scrapping the post of cabinet secretary.

www.bbc.co.uk