Feedback on my business card design x2

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zomex

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    Hello,

    I would like to thank everyone for their feedback of my first business card design (1990s Windows ad will always be in my head :D).

    The designer I hired come up with a new concept. Between that and the feedback on this forum I have come up with some new designs.

    From feedback I have removed some text to reduce clutter, more white space, bigger fonts.

    Let me know what you think:

    B4

    b4.png


    B5

    b5.png

    B6

    b6.png


    B7

    b7.png


    Many thanks,
    Jack
     

    Lucan Unlordly

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    My 16 year old Nephew can design websites, is good at graphics, has developed a brand and understands what SEO is about, if not very practiced at it, yet you've chosen to remove from your card the one thing that differentiates your ability from his................'15 years experience':rolleyes:

    You've chosen to highlight the ways potential recipients can contact you without one single 'call to action'....
    Now I'm as thick as two short planks when it comes to web design but I guarantee you that if I had a business card that read..
    'I BUILD BLOODY GOOD WEBSITES'
    ...with a name and mobile number I'd get more business than you with yours.
    It really is that simple.
     
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    I'd take off Graphic design, you're outsourcing your card design to someone of fiverr? and a random biz forum.

    What do you mean email? Email hosting, email marketing, email templates?

    Still no tracking on the URL, despite this being essential from an SEO point of view and super easy.

    B7 is the best of a bad bunch.

    Does the QR code take me to your site or create a contact in outlook or my phone?
     
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    zomex

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    Thanks for the feedback.
    My 16 year old Nephew can design websites, is good at graphics, has developed a brand and understands what SEO is about, if not very practiced at it, yet you've chosen to remove from your card the one thing that differentiates your ability from his................'15 years experience':rolleyes:

    You've chosen to highlight the ways potential recipients can contact you without one single 'call to action'....
    Now I'm as thick as two short planks when it comes to web design but I guarantee you that if I had a business card that read..
    'I BUILD BLOODY GOOD WEBSITES'
    ...with a name and mobile number I'd get more business than you with yours.
    It really is that simple.

    I removed that section because of feedback from my last thread. The feedback was that it was too cluttered. So if you look at the content before I can't remove my website, email, phone number so surely out of the options that text had to go. But I appreciate your feedback and will look at adding the experience back in. You're right that it's my biggest selling point.

    I don't agree that your business card idea would get more business. If marketing was that simple you would see every advert with simple black text and a white background. Everyone has suggested this, show me an example of it actually working and a company using such basic marketing without their branding/logo/color scheme.

    I would never take someone seriously using a white business card with black text. That would give me cheap, just launched, scam, amateur vibes.

    I'd take off Graphic design, you're outsourcing your card design to someone of fiverr? and a random biz forum.

    What do you mean email? Email hosting, email marketing, email templates?

    Still no tracking on the URL, despite this being essential from an SEO point of view and super easy.

    B7 is the best of a bad bunch.

    Does the QR code take me to your site or create a contact in outlook or my phone?

    Yes I outsource graphic design. Nothing wrong with that and a very standard business practise. The only area of my business I outsource is graphic design. Not sure why you believe this is a bad thing. Every business hires/outsources to cover their weaknesses. It's impossible to be a master of everything and I recognise that weakness. Look at the logos, mascots, banner design on my website. All outsourced and to a very high standard. I use a specialised designer for each area and the work speaks for itself. In 15 years I have only been asked to refund 1 order related to design. I used graphic design instead of logo design as it's a more general term as it's not just logos offered but it's mostly logos so I may change it to logo design. I won't be completing graphic design personally (clearly from the feedback of my designs haha)

    I provide web hosting and have done so since 2009. Most people do not know what web hosting is. The web hosting includes email hosting so I figured email was a better thing to add. There's a lot of local companies out there still using gmail instead of email of their domain. But if my thinking is wrong here I will change it to be more specific.

    I believe that no one would manually type the URL in their browser such as zomex.com/example. They are more likely to visit zomex.com and ignore the rest or Google Zomex. But I will add it in for the next version as there is no harm trying.

    The GQ currently takes a user to the homepage but I have full control of that URL and will eventually create a landing page that will be tracked and optimized for this use.
     
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    zomex

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    To add to the outsourcing because honestly I found that take quite laughable. Firstly I don't use Fiverr.

    Ironically I used to work for a large design company who did print media, van designs, logos, business cards. Even back in 2008 they would outsource many areas of their design. By your view a company who provides services based mostly on graphic design should not be allowed to mention graphic design on their marketing because some is outsourced.
     
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    fisicx

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    A lot of businesses seem to have a ‘search for zomex’ message on the marketing material. No need then to even have the URL on the business card.

    I don’t think I’ve ever typed in an email address. I go to the website and fill in the contact form or click on the email link. So you could bin that off the card.

    Simpler layouts are often far more effective. I’ve done this with my websites, stripping back over the years until I found a sweet spot that converts really well.

    Remember as well that the business card isn’t for you. It doesn’t matter what you like, it only matters what a potential customer likes.
     
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    zomex

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    A lot of businesses seem to have a ‘search for zomex’ message on the marketing material. No need then to even have the URL on the business card.

    I don’t think I’ve ever typed in an email address. I go to the website and fill in the contact form or click on the email link. So you could bin that off the card.

    Simpler layouts are often far more effective. I’ve done this with my websites, stripping back over the years until I found a sweet spot that converts really well.

    Remember as well that the business card isn’t for you. It doesn’t matter what you like, it only matters what a potential customer likes.
    Appreciate the feedback. I agree and it's opened my eyes and inspired a new design which I will create and post later today.
     
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    I'm glad you've dropped that awkward pale blue colour from the previous designs. It looks much cleaner now and I don't feel there are any glaring issues with it. It does the job.

    QR code looks a bit too small - is that what you are referring to as "GQ"?
    Usually when you have a horizontal bullet list, you put the dot in between the two words and the first word doesn't have a bullet to its left.

    Saying that... If you want to improve...

    It looks quite bland. Like every other "we do everything" person/company. There's no brand, no essence, no values shining through, no USPs just a "here's what we do" approach.

    It's more of a logo with colours than a brand with purpose. This, I think, is what @Lucan Unlordly is getting at with his "I DO BLOODY GOOD WEBSITES" comment. This asset doesn't clearly show that you stand for anything in particular. It does a good job of making you blend in with your competitors rather than standing out in a memorable way. Most companies selling web/marketing all say the exact same things you are saying, and promote themselves in the same way.

    This is all fine, it's not necessarily criticism - most companies start (and stay) at this stage but if you're looking for ways to improve then this is what I'd be considering if it were my business.

    A lot of it boils down to what work do you really love doing?

    I built my agency from scratch, including the team, and there's a lot of crossover between the services you promote and the solutions we promote. My major concern would be how well you can do ALL of those things if you're still using cheap (presumably) off-shore labour from Fiverr. Having seen quality of design here and on your website, I'd say it's alright to good - I wouldn't say you're pushing out "a very high standard" of quality.

    Like, I don't see it as being on par with the best of the best on Dribbble.

    Just a bunch of thoughts really, take them to heart, probe into them, ask questions or ignore them at your own leisure :)
     
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    zomex

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    I'm glad you've dropped that awkward pale blue colour from the previous designs. It looks much cleaner now and I don't feel there are any glaring issues with it. It does the job.

    QR code looks a bit too small - is that what you are referring to as "GQ"?
    Usually when you have a horizontal bullet list, you put the dot in between the two words and the first word doesn't have a bullet to its left.

    Saying that... If you want to improve...

    It looks quite bland. Like every other "we do everything" person/company. There's no brand, no essence, no values shining through, no USPs just a "here's what we do" approach.

    It's more of a logo with colours than a brand with purpose. This, I think, is what @Lucan Unlordly is getting at with his "I DO BLOODY GOOD WEBSITES" comment. This asset doesn't clearly show that you stand for anything in particular. It does a good job of making you blend in with your competitors rather than standing out in a memorable way. Most companies selling web/marketing all say the exact same things you are saying, and promote themselves in the same way.

    This is all fine, it's not necessarily criticism - most companies start (and stay) at this stage but if you're looking for ways to improve then this is what I'd be considering if it were my business.

    A lot of it boils down to what work do you really love doing?

    I built my agency from scratch, including the team, and there's a lot of crossover between the services you promote and the solutions we promote. My major concern would be how well you can do ALL of those things if you're still using cheap (presumably) off-shore labour from Fiverr. Having seen quality of design here and on your website, I'd say it's alright to good - I wouldn't say you're pushing out "a very high standard" of quality.

    Like, I don't see it as being on par with the best of the best on Dribbble.

    Just a bunch of thoughts really, take them to heart, probe into them, ask questions or ignore them at your own leisure :)
    @Sean Lee-Amies

    Very insightful feedback. I was going to reply later but I have it all fresh in my head so here we are.

    Completely agree with the colour. That was a horrible colour made worse with the texture on top.

    Regarding the bullet list I wouldn't say it's so black and white as this is how it should be done but I think your layout will look better than mine so I will change it.

    Thank you for your honest take, that's why I am here. Putting it all out there for the sake of honest feedback.

    I get what @Lucan Unlordly was saying and it all sounds lovely to keep it straight to the point, no fluff. But my point in response was everyone is saying white background, black text. I have not even seen such marketing let alone it work. Every brand is tying everything together, keeping consistent color scheme, brand, fonts, message. I am open to seeing some examples of this.

    I have already cleared up the Fiverr comment. I don't use Fiverr, I out source graphic design to specialised designers in those fields. Everything else I provide myself. If you do everything in house you will have your own weaknesses unless you have a large enough team with a large range of skills. Even still you will not be producing the best work out there.

    In response to my work quality I don't disagree with you but it goes much deeper than how you see it.

    How long has your agency been going? I ask because I've been in business for over 15 years. And throughout that time I've had to re-invent my services, company and knowledge multiple times. If you recently started an agency even in the last 5 years you have come into it with the knowledge, tools and free content available in recent times.

    I am not saying that in a negative way. I started at an advantage over my competition in 2009 when most websites were still using HTML tables. I learned from the start how to build websites using divs/CSS with floats and at that time I was the man. I then had to learn about responsive design when that become the next big thing etc etc. Now if I didn't evolve at anyone of those pivotal moments I would be out of business.

    My point is someone getting into this now is starting from the most modern methods, the most available free content etc. I started when there was no content, I had to learn by doing and figuring things out. There is no worries these days about trying to get your website to display correctly in IE7 haha. So I stand here as a old company where a lot of what has been learned since starting is irrelevant now. I'm 34 and started at 19. So I am trying to re-invent my company once again.

    Now none of this matters to the client I understand, I am just stating it's easy to compare my company to 2024 designers on Dribbble but it doesn't paint the full picture. I agree their work is much better and I will do my best to work towards it but there's also significantly worse work than mine so there is place for everyone to improve businesses.
     
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    You said earlier that the graphic designer's first language wasn't English, which suggests a fiverr/upwork type of relationship. I know a few graphic designers - Cannes Lion winners, global brands, etc, they wouldn't produce anything like this.

    I said to track the URL, choose.zomex.com is much more likely to be typed in than www.zomex.com/choose and you can encoded any number of utm tags into the subdomain, even have different subdomains for different cards so you can compare.

    or get a different URL entirely - bloodygoodwebsites.com and redirect to zomax, again with whatever utm tags you want.

    I presume the QR code has UTM tags?

    Also you've listed email, but not hosting, which is a bit weird as your email offer seems to be part of the hosting?

    If websites is what you do most of, I'd stick to that and drop the rest.
     
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    fisicx

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    One of the things I do is website assessments. That the service I market. I do a lot of other things as well which means I can often upsell from the assessment.

    If your business card focused on the main service you provide you can use this as a springboard to your other services. KISS - keep it simple stupid.

    The business card I’ve got from a major UK bank that I’m doing some work for has a very simple logo and contact details on a white card. Simple and elegant. As I said before, it’s not about your likes, it’s about what a prospective client likes.

    A card from a UK diy chain just has the logo, tagline and a QR code. It’s even simpler!
     
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    zomex

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    You said earlier that the graphic designer's first language wasn't English, which suggests a fiverr/upwork type of relationship. I know a few graphic designers - Cannes Lion winners, global brands, etc, they wouldn't produce anything like this.

    I said to track the URL, choose.zomex.com is much more likely to be typed in than www.zomex.com/choose and you can encoded any number of utm tags into the subdomain, even have different subdomains for different cards so you can compare.

    or get a different URL entirely - bloodygoodwebsites.com and redirect to zomax, again with whatever utm tags you want.

    I presume the QR code has UTM tags?

    Also you've listed email, but not hosting, which is a bit weird as your email offer seems to be part of the hosting?

    If websites is what you do most of, I'd stick to that and drop the rest.

    I used Freelancer. The idea was to hire their recommended designer for a fresh take for ideas. The result very poor and quite honestly as bad as if not worse than my design. But was worth the try.

    From feedback I have come up with a new design and the URL isn't even part of it now. I agree with others that no one in this day and age is going to type the URL in a browser.

    Yes the QR will have UTM tags. Won't set this up until I finalise the design.

    As mentioned these cards are going to be given to your every day business owner. 99% of them will not even know what web hosting is or care to know. Everyone knows what email is.

    Stay tuned for the new design. Once again I do appreciate everyones feedback, the change between my 1990s Windows ad and now is huge and that's what communities such as these are all about.
     
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    fisicx

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    Another thought. Do you know what you want the card to achieve?

    It is to just get them on your website? One assumes the card is given following a conversation so they should already know what you do. Which then means all you need is the QR code. Or just the words: search zomex.

    Design the card to have a purpose.

    Or maybe just carry a bunch of pens with the word zomex printed on them.
     
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    zomex

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    Another thought. Do you know what you want the card to achieve?

    It is to just get them on your website? One assumes the card is given following a conversation so they should already know what you do. Which then means all you need is the QR code. Or just the words: search zomex.

    Design the card to have a purpose.

    Or maybe just carry a bunch of pens with the word zomex printed on them.
    Yes, they will simply be given to who I speak to about websites and what I do. It happens a few times a week so I figured I need a business card for these times. I'm not expecting a business card given to a few people a week to change my business but it's a good way to better handle these interactions. Also this business card design is the first step, I am going to take what I learned from this and use it for other media I am looking into.

    You are right and actually your feedback has been a big inspiration for the next design coming soon. So I thank you for that.
     
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    zomex

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    Ok so here are the new designs:

    B8:

    b8.png


    B9:

    b9.png


    B10:

    b10.png


    From a combination of everyones feedback and a re-think I have:

    - removed my name, email, phone number, URL
    - Added 15 years experience as a big focus
    - Used the circles between the text as suggested (looks much better thanks)

    Just to clarify these are mock-ups working towards choosing a final design. The spacing is rough, font sizes are not decided, my logo/GQ has been re-sized up and down so is pixeled. All will be re-created in vector format once I choose the design to go with.

    Thanks.
     
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    fisicx

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    But if the discussion you had with the prospect wants hosting the card says you are a website designer….

    B10 is nice and clean. Do you really need the QR code if it’s quicker and easier to just search for zomex?. I’d also remove the word Google as people with phones often don’t connect their browser with Google.

    One more thought. If you are talking to the prospect, why not just get their number/email. That way you take control of the lead.
     
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    @Sean Lee-Amies

    Very insightful feedback. I was going to reply later but I have it all fresh in my head so here we are.

    Completely agree with the colour. That was a horrible colour made worse with the texture on top.

    Regarding the bullet list I wouldn't say it's so black and white as this is how it should be done but I think your layout will look better than mine so I will change it.

    Thank you for your honest take, that's why I am here. Putting it all out there for the sake of honest feedback.

    I get what @Lucan Unlordly was saying and it all sounds lovely to keep it straight to the point, no fluff. But my point in response was everyone is saying white background, black text. I have not even seen such marketing let alone it work. Every brand is tying everything together, keeping consistent color scheme, brand, fonts, message. I am open to seeing some examples of this.

    I have already cleared up the Fiverr comment. I don't use Fiverr, I out source graphic design to specialised designers in those fields. Everything else I provide myself. If you do everything in house you will have your own weaknesses unless you have a large enough team with a large range of skills. Even still you will not be producing the best work out there.

    In response to my work quality I don't disagree with you but it goes much deeper than how you see it.

    How long has your agency been going? I ask because I've been in business for over 15 years. And throughout that time I've had to re-invent my services, company and knowledge multiple times. If you recently started an agency even in the last 5 years you have come into it with the knowledge, tools and free content available in recent times.

    I am not saying that in a negative way. I started at an advantage over my competition in 2009 when most websites were still using HTML tables. I learned from the start how to build websites using divs/CSS with floats and at that time I was the man. I then had to learn about responsive design when that become the next big thing etc etc. Now if I didn't evolve at anyone of those pivotal moments I would be out of business.

    My point is someone getting into this now is starting from the most modern methods, the most available free content etc. I started when there was no content, I had to learn by doing and figuring things out. There is no worries these days about trying to get your website to display correctly in IE7 haha. So I stand here as a old company where a lot of what has been learned since starting is irrelevant now. I'm 34 and started at 19. So I am trying to re-invent my company once again.

    Now none of this matters to the client I understand, I am just stating it's easy to compare my company to 2024 designers on Dribbble but it doesn't paint the full picture. I agree their work is much better and I will do my best to work towards it but there's also significantly worse work than mine so there is place for everyone to improve businesses.
    @zomex You're welcome. Always happy to discuss and explore new perspectives.

    I understand where you're coming from RE deeper than initial perceptions, but ultimately there is the best of the best and then there is everything else, which is either very close or very far away from the standards set by the best of the best. Everything else is largely irrelevant - in my opinion.

    I do get where you're coming from, we've been through so many iterations of identity I've lost count, but we've settled on an outsourced marketing and sales department, or Fractional RevOps Team for the ambitious corporates.

    We used to be a growth agency.

    Before that we were a marketing agency...

    I digress.

    That's funny, I'm also 34 and started "professionally" at 19.

    I designed and coded my first website at 13 with HTML/CSS - long before no-code tools like Wix came about. I used Dreamweaver for the longest time - a decision I later came to regret because although I never used the drag and drop features, people assumed I did, and that always came with negative connotions! I always had to reassure people by saying "but I don't use the drag and drop builder...!".

    This really taught me from a very young age that it's better not to create doubt, than to do so and have to explain your way out of it later!

    I launched my agency in 2017, so about 7 years ago, but had been freelancing for 8 years full-time prior to that. Please don't remind me of the probably hundreds of hours spent battling with float: left and float: right. I have a taste for unique designs, float was the bane of my life at one point.

    I don't miss coding, if I'm honest!

    Again, I digress.

    I'm not sure how much sway your argument has really - not that it matters hugely. I mean what are we saying? That, if you start 10+ years prior to younger designers, it's not your fault if they can output higher quality design?

    I'm, by no means at all, saying that we're the "best of the best" but I'd say our design capabilities aren't miles away from Dribbble quality.

    Here's an example:
    www dot allixo dot com - I still can't post links :(

    All of their marketing and sales collateral features the same identity. That was a lot of fun to make.

    We're in the process of adding an additional 30 pages of content, a completely revamped top navigation as part of an SEO campaign and rolling out the parallax/glassmorphism animations/interactions across the site. It's going to look so much better when it's done, can't wait!

    Got a couple more of similar quality in the making of similar quality.

    We've spent countless years chasing clients with the ambition and budget to let us put the time into creating sites like this; because that's what my team and I love creating - premium digital experiences.

    It just depends how much energy you invest into opportunities available to you vs finding opportunities that don't yet exist.
     
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    Ok so here are the new designs:
    It does feel like you haven't yet quite figured out what label you want to align with. I know it's so bloody tough, because digital marketer could be a good fit for you - and I appreciate you didn't come here looking to reinvent your entire business - but then if you don't have a load of case studies showing big revenue gains, it'll be hard to interact with people who crave evidence of performance.

    I hope you figure it out.

    For now, any of those designs would do but personally I would include a summary of what you do beyond web design.

    Once you're pigeon-holed as "the website guy/company" people don't come to you to talk about things like branding. Then you find out they hired somene else without even considering you...

    You can address this in other ways but I'd be tempted to stick with:

    Branding - Web Design - Hosting - SEO

    I've never seen anyone use "email" and no one has ever asked for it.
     
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    zomex

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    @Sean Lee-Amies

    It's always nice to have an exchange of ideas.

    You say there is the best of the best and yes there is but the majority of business owners cannot afford and do not need the best of the best. That is a tiny market probably under 1% of the total website space. The average business is going to be your trade company who's using Wix to throw up a poorly done website and paying a large price to keep it online without even understanding who if anyone is visiting the website.

    If that's your market you're going to find it increasingly difficult to find clients willing to spend high end prices with the continuing decline in skill (AI, tools, themes) needed to design and create a website.

    Sounds like we've had quite an interesting rise in the industry. I can relate to using Dreamweaver's code editor and messing with floats. Not very fun times in the industry but I would argue a much harder time to develop websites which made it a rarer skill.

    You have given me an honest take on my work so I will give you my honest take on yours. I am not one to put down anyones work but you come across very over confident and superior yet the website you've shown doesn't match how good you think you are. Don't get me wrong, it good but it's not close to "Dribbble quality" and you have many flaws in design, function and performance. Actually way more issues than I was expecting from the confidence you showed in what you are producing.

    The truth is and I am being honest I could create a better designed and performing website using a modified pre-made £100 theme for 1/5th the price you would have charged for this custom website. I hope your client hasn't paid a huge sum of money because as is it would not have been a good investment. Just because it's custom doesn't mean it's better. Almost any theme on theme forest will have a better design and structure than what you've created. And I'm saying that as someone who hates Theme Forest and the trend the industry has taken. Most themes are bloated but design, performance (cta, engagement etc) and structure wise they are very well made. The bad optimisation makes little difference these days due to fast internet. I am also saying this as someone who created Zomex.com completely custom both design and code (other than a couple of JS frameworks - not even using a CSS framework). I love custom but the truth is in 2024 99% of small businesses have no need for a completely custom website.

    - Your huge hero banner on the homepage adds 0 value. The background adds nothing, the background lines don't signify anything and it takes up so much space. Your margins and padding are so high that your h1 heading, the first content someone will see when visiting your website starts half way down the page. The animation also causes the content below it to skip on mobile. Then the h1 itself says nothing at all about what the company does. Your description text is tiny and the call to action Contact Us button is poor. Bad contrast (a big trend of your design), a duplicate of the contact us button in the header. That's the most important part of any website and it's been completely wasted.

    - A huge issue I see is a lack of clear CTAs throughout. This website will perform very poorly. You have a nice contact us on the top right which remains on mobile. That's nice but that's it as far as getting the user to take action. Most pages have no CTA or they are small buttons buried down the page.

    - the design looks cheap in most areas. I will say I do really like your logo and menu (although not the dropdown). The rest is really not great. Most of the content design of the website doesn't look far off Wix quality and that is the honest truth. There is nothing to the content pages, a simple header and some text. No CTAs, no images and overall poor design.

    - Take your blog section on the homepage for example. You have a huge image for all which adds no value and takes a large amount of space. You have a simple box design and heading. Nothing more to it. One of the blocks has a heading which spans 3 lines adding an inconsistent space below all.

    - A lot of content has a bad contrast. I could tell this before even checking - All buttons effected, a lot of your content, your menus active/hover state all fail contrast tests.

    - Line height is poor for most content and considering the majority of the site is text I am surprised this has been overlooked.

    An example of the initial homepage load: I could do the same for every section of your website:

    example.png


    ------------

    To be honest with you seeing what you're charging and the quality of work you are producing spurs me on to get my name out there and take my business to the next level. It's given me a huge confidence boost to trust my knowledge and experience and make it happen. I may not be able to design a business card but I can go toe to toe with anyone when it comes to web design, SEO & performance.
     
    Upvote 0

    Lucan Unlordly

    Free Member
    Feb 24, 2009
    3,958
    994
    If marketing was that simple you would see every advert with simple black text and a white background. Everyone has suggested this, show me an example of it actually working and a company using such basic marketing without their branding/logo/color scheme.
    Your clearly not old enough to remember when newspapers were printed black on white?
    I would never take someone seriously using a white business card with black text. That would give me cheap, just launched, scam, amateur vibes.
    One of the most successful printed media adverts featured a small round Volkswagen logo placed dead centre on a blank white full page. It was carried on the same day in every national newspaper.
    I get what @Lucan Unlordly was saying and it all sounds lovely to keep it straight to the point,
    If your attending an exhibition where like minded business folk are handing over similar cards, you need to stand out. You may not reach the heady heights associated with 'Make America Great Again', ...'Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water'...etc., but you'll increase the chances of being shortlisted if you shout about something relevant.

    ........which I see you've done on your latest offerings:cool:
     
    Upvote 0
    It's always nice to have an exchange of ideas.

    It is, until it evolves into something else.

    Sorry, I must have hit a nerve with previous comment or something. It wasn't my intention, but I see you've tried hard to cause offense. That's a shame.

    Believing that "only 1% of the total market" can afford anything above the very low prices you charge is definitely scarcity mindset thinking. Very common.

    AI tools don't affect what we do, the type of clients we work with don't consider the utilisation of such tools as a viable option, and you won't agree with that because you don't understand our market or what we do, which is of no bother to me.

    Ultimately it's perfectly fine for two companies to operate in different segments, and that's all this is. You don't have to understand it but it is what it is.

    I think, if you're making such a big deal about using "specialist designers" and trying hard to emphasise the quality of said designer(s), it's quite contradictory to then have them design a business card, not like it enough - or trust in their ability enough - to then go to a business community and get/apply so much feedback that it completely changes every aspect of said business card.

    But it's for the best that you did.

    As for your, shall we say, interesting, critique of an in-progress website for a client that's spent the best part of a year trying to figure out who they are, who they want to be, what they sell and how to package/promote all of that - something you claim to understand - all the things you've pointed out are either being worked on (some things aren't quick fixes) or really a very trivial non-issue.

    I presented Allixo's website as an example of brand and design capability. I love the brand, my team does, every member of our client's leadership team does, as did their existing and new clients. So, I don't know what to tell you really.

    Comments about poor value for money is a tell tale sign that you don't really understand much beyond knocking out a quick website in the most cost effective way possible.

    Again, not a criticism, you just operate in a different segment and that's perfectly okay.

    I have been through the few websites of yours promoted on your website, burried deep within certain pages and not at all easy to find, (it's like you're intentionally hiding them), and most of them have exactly the same problems - and more - that you're pointing out.

    It won't let me upload images for some reason, new account I guess, but Antler Chews is a prime example. It doesn't even load the hero section properly, it seems to get stuck at 60% width leaving a massive white gap to the right hand side, the CTA buttons are overlapping so you can't even read half of the text on the left button, the hero also features white text against a low opacity black background, but with a pure white dog directly underneath it; the video has the dog moving all over the place making it near impossible to read any of the white text above it.

    I could go on, but I don't need to because I know the limitations of low budgets, cheap labour and how many more issues there are going to be based on what I've seen already.

    But I wouldn't hold that against you or your team because I understand that client's themselves, or their situations, impose limitations that can't be bypassed. Whether that's a client who doesn't care about and can't/won't invest into brand or a client who's in the middle of a major evolution of their business but still wants to make progress on as many fronts as possible.

    There's a market for what you do, and a market for what I do, and I wish you luck in finding more success in your space.
     
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    YasmeenLondon

    Business Member
    Business Listing
    Jul 25, 2022
    175
    88
    London
    yasmeencreative.com
    My take:

    1) I always used to add a QR code in my business card until I realised no one scans them, so I was wasting good space for nothing.

    2) Mentioning you have 15 years of web design experience is good, mentioning you have been growing businesses through powerful websites for over 15 years is better (or maybe something less cliche but the point is to focus on the problems you helped solve for your clients rather than your own experience)

    3) I think the point Nick was trying to make about removing graphic design from the card is because in your admission graphic design is not your strength and you outsource it, you should focus on mentioning your strengths as they make you the most money and you control the entire process.

    4) B10.
     
    Upvote 0
    At least the thread is entertaining.

    My favourite parts are where @zomex tried to criticise the allixo.com website and completely failed to notice that it doesn't work properly on mobile and has a very long load time.

    Closely followed when I checked out Zomex.com and realised his site doesn't work properly on mobile either, has a slow load time too and fails accessibility tests for the exact things that he pointed out were wrong with allixo.

    But you both get links, so there's an SEO boost for you.

    And what about the business card?

    It now suggests your name is Zomex,
    has a pointless border around the QR code,
    tells people to scan the QR code - no need, people who use QR codes know what they are, people who don't, wont know what scan them means - I haven't got a scanner, etc...,
    tells people to google "Zomex", when the name is already written at the top of the card.
    And contains no useful information

    Give up, go to Vista Print, choose the first design (I don't care what it looks like), add your details, order some, and then get on with some real marketing. All this fuss about a card that few people are going to see and no one is going to care about is pointless.
     
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    zomex

    Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Sep 10, 2010
    624
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    United Kingdom
    www.zomex.com
    It is, until it evolves into something else.

    Sorry, I must have hit a nerve with previous comment or something. It wasn't my intention, but I see you've tried hard to cause offense. That's a shame.

    Believing that "only 1% of the total market" can afford anything above the very low prices you charge is definitely scarcity mindset thinking. Very common.

    AI tools don't affect what we do, the type of clients we work with don't consider the utilisation of such tools as a viable option, and you won't agree with that because you don't understand our market or what we do, which is of no bother to me.

    Ultimately it's perfectly fine for two companies to operate in different segments, and that's all this is. You don't have to understand it but it is what it is.

    I think, if you're making such a big deal about using "specialist designers" and trying hard to emphasise the quality of said designer(s), it's quite contradictory to then have them design a business card, not like it enough - or trust in their ability enough - to then go to a business community and get/apply so much feedback that it completely changes every aspect of said business card.

    But it's for the best that you did.

    As for your, shall we say, interesting, critique of an in-progress website for a client that's spent the best part of a year trying to figure out who they are, who they want to be, what they sell and how to package/promote all of that - something you claim to understand - all the things you've pointed out are either being worked on (some things aren't quick fixes) or really a very trivial non-issue.

    I presented Allixo's website as an example of brand and design capability. I love the brand, my team does, every member of our client's leadership team does, as did their existing and new clients. So, I don't know what to tell you really.

    Comments about poor value for money is a tell tale sign that you don't really understand much beyond knocking out a quick website in the most cost effective way possible.

    Again, not a criticism, you just operate in a different segment and that's perfectly okay.

    I have been through the few websites of yours promoted on your website, burried deep within certain pages and not at all easy to find, (it's like you're intentionally hiding them), and most of them have exactly the same problems - and more - that you're pointing out.

    It won't let me upload images for some reason, new account I guess, but Antler Chews is a prime example. It doesn't even load the hero section properly, it seems to get stuck at 60% width leaving a massive white gap to the right hand side, the CTA buttons are overlapping so you can't even read half of the text on the left button, the hero also features white text against a low opacity black background, but with a pure white dog directly underneath it; the video has the dog moving all over the place making it near impossible to read any of the white text above it.

    I could go on, but I don't need to because I know the limitations of low budgets, cheap labour and how many more issues there are going to be based on what I've seen already.

    But I wouldn't hold that against you or your team because I understand that client's themselves, or their situations, impose limitations that can't be bypassed. Whether that's a client who doesn't care about and can't/won't invest into brand or a client who's in the middle of a major evolution of their business but still wants to make progress on as many fronts as possible.

    There's a market for what you do, and a market for what I do, and I wish you luck in finding more success in your space.
    @Sean Lee-Amies

    I am not trying to hate or be negative. But some of the initial comments you made and confidence borderline arrogance pushed me to check your website. At the end of the day if you talk a big game you have to be able to back it up. You were so confident about the quality of your work and rated it at almost "Dribbble" quality when in reality it is average at best.

    I'm not trying to be horrible. I am just being honest as you were to me. This forum has been fantastic for me to get some hard truths. The brutal honesty about my dreadful business card design will take my business to the next level. Everyone was spot on that I was trying to do too much with my design, removing the clutter and focusing has created a card which will perform so much better. Looking at my latest design I can see just how bad my first design was even though at the time I thought I was a graphic genius haha.

    Everything I said in response to your website was true. I stand by it but it doesn't give me any joy to state it, I have some flaw in my personality where I have to be honest and I can't seem to let things slide. If you were not so confident with your work I wouldn't have been motivated to even look.

    > Comments about poor value for money is a tell tale sign that you don't really understand much beyond knocking out a quick website in the most cost effective way possible.

    On the flip side there is you believing that you are adding massive value to clients by charging a huge amount to create a bespoke website. Believing it's high quality because of the time you put into it and the large budget. Just because you charged a high price and put time into it doesn't make it effective or good value for the client and that has been sadly proven.

    AntlerChews was a favour I did for a client who's been hosting with me for over 10 years. His website was dated (even asking clients to send him an email to make an order). I used his tiny budget of $500 to make a huge improvement to his business, installed Woo Commerce and set it up with his products so clients could make actual purchases. It's far from perfect as the budget didn't allow me much time but he got huge value for money and a massive jump up in website quality/function. Even this website does many things better than Allixo with a $500 budget instead of £4000+ (I am guessing).

    If you want to compare like for like then compare with Zomex.com. That is a custom website I built and coded. You could argue design as design/color scheme are very subjective. But Zomex has easily 50x the content of Allixo. 10x the images which makes it harder to design and I believe it is better in all areas, you only have to look at the homepage to see every flaw I highlighted with yours doesn't exist with mine. It is built with PHP instead of WordPress and I have a lot of clever functions working in the background such as IP detection for currency/pricing changes, login share between the main PHP website and the software I used for clients (WHMCS).

    Hopefully we can agree to disagree and move on.
     
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    zomex

    Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Sep 10, 2010
    624
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    United Kingdom
    www.zomex.com
    At least the thread is entertaining.

    My favourite parts are where @zomex tried to criticise the allixo.com website and completely failed to notice that it doesn't work properly on mobile and has a very long load time.

    Closely followed when I checked out Zomex.com and realised his site doesn't work properly on mobile either, has a slow load time too and fails accessibility tests for the exact things that he pointed out were wrong with allixo.

    But you both get links, so there's an SEO boost for you.

    And what about the business card?

    It now suggests your name is Zomex,
    has a pointless border around the QR code,
    tells people to scan the QR code - no need, people who use QR codes know what they are, people who don't, wont know what scan them means - I haven't got a scanner, etc...,
    tells people to google "Zomex", when the name is already written at the top of the card.
    And contains no useful information

    Give up, go to Vista Print, choose the first design (I don't care what it looks like), add your details, order some, and then get on with some real marketing. All this fuss about a card that few people are going to see and no one is going to care about is pointless.

    Ah Nick the guy with all the talk but nothing to show for it. What have you achieved? Where is your work? Where is your business?

    I checked my site on mobile and it works perfectly. Maybe you want to enlighten me with specifics of what you found. As for failing accessibility tests the same as allixo.com what do you have to say?

    example2.png


    Granted 2 buttons don't pass the contrast check, I will resolve that today.

    Zomex Report:

    zomex.png


    Allixo Report:

    allixo.png


    That's a comparison between 1 site with very few images and mine with many more.

    As for SEO links a nofollow link from a forum is hardly a game changer for SEO in 2024.

    That's a cute opinion. Kind of doesn't make sense when the big brands are using QR codes for marketing and also "Google x to learn more".

    The reason I'm fussing about the card is because I will be using it as a base for my other marketing. I am learning with the most basic and least important media.
     
    Upvote 0

    zomex

    Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Sep 10, 2010
    624
    113
    United Kingdom
    www.zomex.com
    My take:

    1) I always used to add a QR code in my business card until I realised no one scans them, so I was wasting good space for nothing.

    2) Mentioning you have 15 years of web design experience is good, mentioning you have been growing businesses through powerful websites for over 15 years is better (or maybe something less cliche but the point is to focus on the problems you helped solve for your clients rather than your own experience)

    3) I think the point Nick was trying to make about removing graphic design from the card is because in your admission graphic design is not your strength and you outsource it, you should focus on mentioning your strengths as they make you the most money and you control the entire process.

    4) B10.

    Great feedback thanks
     
    Upvote 0
    My website is easy to find, you'll work it out.


    Core Web Vitals Assessment: Failed

    "news" banner covers header bar when you scroll up and down on ios and hard to close.

    The things that big brands do are completely irrelevant, you are not a big brand, so no point at all in comparing to them.

    The ones that use QR codes tend not to use borders, or make the border part for something else.

    Some brands do say "Search ..." very few say "Google ..." and it tends not to be the brand name that they suggest you search for.
     
    Upvote 0

    zomex

    Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Sep 10, 2010
    624
    113
    United Kingdom
    www.zomex.com
    Your clearly not old enough to remember when newspapers were printed black on white?

    One of the most successful printed media adverts featured a small round Volkswagen logo placed dead centre on a blank white full page. It was carried on the same day in every national newspaper.

    If your attending an exhibition where like minded business folk are handing over similar cards, you need to stand out. You may not reach the heady heights associated with 'Make America Great Again', ...'Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water'...etc., but you'll increase the chances of being shortlisted if you shout about something relevant.

    ........which I see you've done on your latest offerings:cool:

    @Lucan Unlordly

    You raise great points.

    My counter would be that in the days of black and white newspapers it was a level playing field. All companies had black and white adds. Not really comparable with today. If this was effective every large company would be putting out black and white ads. The majority don't.

    The Volkswagen is a good reference. But surely you realise that a ad that bucks the trend will stand out. But if ever company was to copy it would greatly loose its impact. One huge success doing something different does not change the standard.

    An example of this concept is the guy who created the The Million Dollar Homepage:


    He was successful because he was the first to do it. Many tried after and developers even created templates to make it easy to build the website but after it was done once others failed to get the same hype.
     
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    zomex

    Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Sep 10, 2010
    624
    113
    United Kingdom
    www.zomex.com
    My website is easy to find, you'll work it out.


    Core Web Vitals Assessment: Failed

    "news" banner covers header bar when you scroll up and down on ios and hard to close.

    The things that big brands do are completely irrelevant, you are not a big brand, so no point at all in comparing to them.

    The ones that use QR codes tend not to use borders, or make the border part for something else.

    Some brands do say "Search ..." very few say "Google ..." and it tends not to be the brand name that they suggest you search for.

    Interesting as I actually tried to visit your website yesterday and it wasn't loading.

    My friend I would be carful to give any advice on websites when your own website is so bad. Yeah it passes the Google Insight test because there is literally nothing to it. It's text with a very dated design, graphics, a shockingly bad structure and very inconsistent spacing. Your brands that you have partnered with are all pixelated and making me think I need to go to Spec Savers. Your logo looks like it was designed before I was born and makes absolutely no sense what it even is. That should be the new focus of this thread, trying to figure out what this is??

    logo-what.png


    Please don't humour me more. I do not have the time to waist doing this but you make it so hard with your confidence in your own state. It wouldn't even be fair to list out the flaws of your website because I would be here all day.

    Once again it is absolute proof to take any advice you get on forums with a grain of salt. But I will add that I have had some absolutely fantastic advice from this forum. But I've also had a lot of the cult community try and shut me down. Try to discredit my experience and knowledge.
     
    Upvote 0

    Clint911

    Free Member
    Mar 15, 2022
    65
    24
    If you want to compare like for like then compare with Zomex.com. That is a custom website I built and coded. You could argue design as design/color scheme are very subjective
    Im no expert but your custom built website that you built and coded looks exactly like a StoreX theme available to purchase for only £39?

    I could be wrong tho....I was wrong once before but that turned out to be a mistake.
     
    Upvote 0
    Interesting as I actually tried to visit your website yesterday and it wasn't loading.

    My friend I would be carful to give any advice on websites when your own website is so bad. Yeah it passes the Google Insight test because there is literally nothing to it. It's text with a very dated design, graphics, a shockingly bad structure and very inconsistent spacing. Your brands that you have partnered with are all pixelated and making me think I need to go to Spec Savers. Your logo looks like it was designed before I was born and makes absolutely no sense what it even is. That should be the new focus of this thread, trying to figure out what this is??

    logo-what.png


    Please don't humour me more. I do not have the time to waist doing this but you make it so hard with your confidence in your own state. It wouldn't even be fair to list out the flaws of your website because I would be here all day.

    Once again it is absolute proof to take any advice you get on forums with a grain of salt. But I will add that I have had some absolutely fantastic advice from this forum. But I've also had a lot of the cult community try and shut me down. Try to discredit my experience and knowledge.

    Just checked and that ugly badly written site generated 15 mailing list signups yesterday, which is about average for a weekday, goes up to 150-200 on big news days, but hey, what do I know?

    Lots of images are pixelated, you're right, had an issue with a cache plugin that screwed a lot of them up when "optimising" them - on the list of things to do, but not that important.

    Site is just Wordpress with Astra theme and some custom code on top. Its ugly but it works.


    Happy for you to point out anything you don't like.

    The logo is a logo. It was "designed" years ago, my son did it in about 2 minutes - it works fine, no one really cares. If you want to talk logos, what is yours supposed to be and what has it got to do with web design?
     
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    fisicx

    Moderator
    Sep 12, 2006
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    www.aerin.co.uk
    This thread has gone way off topic and has turned into a website review.

    If you want a critique of your or any other website please post in the website review forum.

    Thread closed.
     
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