fasthosts nightmare - help

[G. Lasagne]

After some advice please.

last friday i transferred my hosting to a new hosting company, after a few days i noticed that none of my forms on the site were working, you could submit them but i didnt recieve them in my email inbox.

The site transfer/hosting was completely taken care of on my behalf by a guy who replied to my request for a new hosting package.

Obviously this resulted not only in lost revenue but potential customers would be waiting for a reply which they will never recieve.

This issue was only noticed by me as i found it strange that i had no email requests.

Yeserday i noticed that the blog was completely gone and i was getting a 505 error.

The guy who sorted out the hosting has told me that he has no back-up of the dump files so it is potentially lost for good.

Also i have had an issue with ie7 and my footer's which is now sorted.

I have another guy who works on my site who tried to make a back-up of the site who is getting the blame for the blog issue by the hosting guy.


As you can see it's a total disaster.

My question is this:

Should the guy sorting the hosting out do a series of checks i.e page's working,potential script problems etc?

Is the hosting guy acountable or is this not his fault?

I am a plumber at the end of the day and would have expected any potential issues, script problems etc to be either brought to my attention
or rectified, these problems were only identified because i spotted them.
Am i wrong to expect this?

Dave

I will not mention any names or slander anyone so please don't ask, therefore i would appreciate it if the mods would not delete/move this post so i can get some much needed advice

 

[Dominic Taylor]

As a general rule as a site owner it's your ultimate responsibility as us hosts can't check every feature/folder on your site.

However as a general rule I'll do my best to ensure all files are copied over, and view the site via its temporary URL on our servers to ensure it works before advising our client to change their DNS. To be clear I will always do what is expected (and a functioning site is part of that!), I just couldn't guarantee that everything is working.

It sounds like you're seeing a few compatibility/configuration issues which, generally, are fixable...I don't know how any files could simply disappear though

 

[G. Lasagne]

All i wanted is for the site to be checked before the transfer took place.
Im in an industry where all the liability lands with the person carrying out the work, obviously it's a bit different in the seo/hosting world.

 

[fisicx]

If the forms and blog aren't working it would appear that you don't have php support.

The reason the blog has gone is because you didn't download the database containing all the blog posts. Blame the person who did the file transfers for you. It's not the fault of the person doing your coding.

 

[G. Lasagne]

If the forms and blog aren't working it would appear that you don't have php support.

The reason the blog has gone is because you didn't download the database containing all the blog posts. Blame the person who did the file transfers for you. It's not the fault of the person doing your coding.

Thanks graham that's what i thought, but im kinda stuckl in the middle of an argument between the 2 web/hosting guys, and teh only one truly suffering is me.

 

[G. Lasagne]

just as a bit info the error message im getting is
Error establishing a database connection

 

[jadexsoln]

Hi Dave

The simple answer is yes on all counts I reckon.

Well the form not mailing is relatively easy to fix. To prevent spam Fasthosts require that the form is either delivered FROM or delivered TO a Fasthost hosted email address. So I'm guessing that your new hosting company is only hosting the web server and that e-mail is hosted somewhere else yes? If that's the case all your new hoster needs to do is set up a dummy host account and define an e-mail address in there and use that to deliver the form e-mail. The trick is that e-mail being used has to be hosted via Fasthosts - it doesn't have to have the same domain name as your domain. Your new guy should know this since FH have been doing this for quite a while now.

As for the rest Personally if it was me doing the re-hosting I would have:

a) Made sure that before I'd started I had got a reliable and proven back up.
b) Put the site up on a staging area (Fasthosts provide this by default under a different URL for each domain) so that the newly staged site can be fully tested, before even thinking about initiating the transfer - Once I'd tested it initially I would have got you the client to test it for final verification.
c) Keep the old site available on the old host until the transfer has been proved successful - that way if all else fails you have a fallback, before resorting to the back up (which is always a last resort)

Only when I know all the above is in place would I initiate the domain transfer.

In my opinion it sounds like your "man" has failed to carry out any of these steps. As to whether he's liable, depends on the contract I guess.

As for the blog, this will be database driven and it would have been up to your new host provider to load the DB up to FH - so if he was given the dump file, and then lost to be honest is shocking. I think that the likely scenario is that he didn't realise that there was a database involved and not asked for a dump file, and by the time you realised it was missing your old host provided had dropped the host files and database - they won't be obligated to keep these once you terminate the contract. In fact most host providers have no onus to back up any site they host (you'll find it as a clause in the hosting contract); unless you pay them specifically to do it. But normally that responsibility is down to the site owner (i.e. you I'm afraid)

Hope this helps, but it won't recover your database I'm afraid.

 

[decworld]

The best thing you can do is scrap fasthosts, they are a class A nightmare...

http://fasthostshell.blogspot.com/

 

[fisicx]

Yup, they haven't got the DB set up for the blog (fast host charge extra for this) and it's quite likely that the form uses some sort of database thing as well.

There are some quick fixes for the forms to get you working again. Best way is to send the forms as plain text, that way you will pick them up on your PDA/mobile phone.

 

[Dominic Taylor]

All i wanted is for the site to be checked before the transfer took place.
Im in an industry where all the liability lands with the person carrying out the work, obviously it's a bit different in the seo/hosting world.

It's hard to talk about liability unless there's an agreement about exactly what is involved, which is hard for non-technical site owners to do so it's a slight catch 22.

I'd expect that, for example, if you asked him to transfer your files and he did so, he hasn't done anything wrong. If you asked him to transfer your site and he only transferred the files, and didn't check the site worked on the new server before advising it was complete, you could have a case, but again, I don't want to sound too one-sided as I know most fellow hosts on here are good people. There must be an explanation.

If all seemed to work at first and now something has gone wrong, the situation is more difficult - you need to talk in detail with your old host, new host, and the website creator (who will know the site's requirements and be able to examine/fix any issues) to resolve this.

eg - do you have your old hosting account available still to login to and obtain a database backup?

Also agree with fisicx - check your new hosting supports what you need (the right language support) and that the database details are correct. I presume by dump files he means database backups and he either didn't obtain a copy, or he did transfer them to the new server but they have since been lost.

 

[G. Lasagne]

It's hard to talk about liability unless there's an agreement about exactly what is involved, which is hard for non-technical site owners to do so it's a slight catch 22.

I'd expect that, for example, if you asked him to transfer your files and he did so, he hasn't done anything wrong. If you asked him to transfer your site and he only transferred the files, and didn't check the site worked on the new server before advising it was complete, you could have a case, but again, I don't want to sound too one-sided as I know most fellow hosts on here are good people. There must be an explanation.

If all seemed to work at first and now something has gone wrong, the situation is more difficult - you need to talk in detail with your old host, new host, and the website creator (who will know the site's requirements and be able to examine/fix any issues) to resolve this.

eg - do you have your old hosting account available still to login to and obtain a database backup?

Also agree with fisicx - check your new hosting supports what you need (the right language support) and that the database details are correct. I presume by dump files he means database backups and he either didn't obtain a copy, or he did transfer them to the new server but they have since been lost.

Thats just it though, everyone blames everyone and im not getting any further forward.

 

[cmcp]

Although I wouldn't use them myself, I can't see anything in your OP that is the fault of Fasthosts which makes me think the thread title isn't very fair.

They are not liable to ensure you know know what to do with the technology they provide.

 

[jadexsoln]

The DB connection could just be as simple as he's not amended the config file to connect to the new database (optimistic I know). But still think it's a simple as the database isn't set up - as another post points out this is extra on FH.

FH hold the databases on different servers to the web servers (unless it's a dedicated server) so transfering the file to the new web host won't help. Also depending on what sort of host the guy set up (Windows or Linux) will depend on whether you get PHP support by default. If it's Linux then PHP 5 is enabled by default.

 

[G. Lasagne]

Although I wouldn't use them myself, I can't see anything in your OP that is the fault of Fasthosts which makes me think the thread title isn't very fair.

They are not liable to ensure you know know what to do with the technology they provide.

Im not blaming fashosts im blaming the guy who contacted me sayiong he would sort out the hosting for me, i dont even know who fashosts are, i didnt choose them they were chosen for me?

 

[jadexsoln]

Although I wouldn't use them myself, I can't see anything in your OP that is the fault of Fasthosts which makes me think the thread title isn't very fair.

They are not liable to ensure you know know what to do with the technology they provide.

Yep CMCP is quite right, none of this mess is in anyway due to Fasthosts, so you have no come back on them and they have provided a host service without errors. The issue is that the transfer to the new host was messed up.

 

[cmcp]

That's my point - it's not a Fasthosts nightmare it's a nightmare with your freelancer.

I'd take Dominics advice and get in touch with your old provider. If it's only changed in the past week or so they may be able to help you with backups or temp access.

 

[G. Lasagne]

Yep CMCP is quite right, none of this mess is in anyway due to Fasthosts, so you have no come back on them and they have provided a host service without errors. The issue is that the transfer to the new host was messed up.

Thanks- again i am not balming fashosts, to me its a simple case of, last week (before the transfer) everything worked fine, now this week (after the transfer) it does not

 

[fisicx]

Im not blaming fashosts im blaming the guy who contacted me sayiong he would sort out the hosting for me, i dont even know who fashosts are, i didnt choose them they were chosen for me?

That's even worse. You are now stuck with a host that you didn't chose that you will have to deal with once your current IT guy buggers off. Do you have a copy of the website on a CD? Do you have all the login details and FTP settings for fasthosts?

At the moment you are stuffed. Setting up the blog again is going to cost you extra and your forms aren't going to work without someone doing some coding (which is going to cost you extra as well).

And you are still stuck with fashgosts who don't exactly have have a shining reputation for good quality support.

I can understand your frustration.

 

[G. Lasagne]

That's even worse. You are now stuck with a host that you didn't chose that you will have to deal with once your current IT guy buggers off. Do you have a copy of the website on a CD? Do you have all the login details and FTP settings for fasthosts?

At the moment you are stuffed. Setting up the blog again is going to cost you extra and your forms aren't going to work without someone doing some coding (which is going to cost you extra as well).

And you are still stuck with fashgosts who don't exactly have have a shining reputation for good quality support.

I can understand your frustration.

Thank you graham, the hosting guy seems to think i should be greatfull that he has not charged me for sorting the forms out:|

 

[G. Lasagne]

just been told that if i dont pay for the hosting by tomorrow my site will be taken offline, great customer service eh.
But he did say afterwards that he will keep it hosted until monday to give me a chance to find someone else, great bloke
so i have paid for the hosting and now have no blog, what a week.

Out of interest can you answer this question.

Is it good practice to check forms work before completing a transfer??
Or is this above and beyond the call of duty?

 

[ServWise]

Just to add to what has already been said.

One thing you need to remember is that a SysAdmin from a web host transferring a site from one host to another will generally not know all the in's and out's of your site (They didn't program it), may not have access to test certain parts that may be behind password protected access, may not have ALL the information they need to complete the transfer and may not even be familiar with the programming language it is programmed in.

Generally it is always better to get the original programmer to do the migration or at least test it out and fix any incompatibilities between hosts after the site has been migrated and before DNS is changed.

For example we offer free site migration to our customers but we don't guarantee the site will function fully after migration (although we try our best) but sometimes a problem can only be fixed by the original coder.

 

[cmcp]

Who told you this, the new guy?

Have you contacted your old provider to see if the old (good) data is still live?

Is it good practice to check forms work before completing a transfer??
Or is this above and beyond the call of duty?

I'd concern yourself with trying to fix the issue rather than pull this guy up on his incompetence... Point is he should've checked everything before moving to make sure he could replicate the site as it was, but if you didn't stipulate this or have a schedule of work in writing then you're screwed.

Another lesson learned on UKBF!

 

[marky9378]

fasthosts uses a -f parameter in the email forms to get them to send and recieve they say its a security issue but this is fasthosts way to wind people up.

My advice to everyone is to stay away from fasthosts.

Fasthosts wont be liable for this not working its very hard to get money out of them

 

[newbeats4u]

Marky9378... i have just been looking at your web hosting packages and i noticed the title of the page is still 'untittled document'.

I am looking for a hosting company but i need a large bandwith as i will be operating music and videos. I was gonna go with fasthosts on there 8.99 package with three months free because that had unlimited bandwith but i think i better research a bit more now.

 

[newbeats4u]

Marky9378... i have just been looking at your web hosting packages and i noticed the title of the page is still 'untittled document'.

quote]
Actually there a few more pages with the same problem

 

[UKSEOAgency]

I personally host clients websites on my dedicated server.

I see it as a personal responsibility to migrate the website across to the best of my ability, however prior to even accepting the order I will state what our server supports!

This is how I can justify charging more for a basic hosting package than a larger company than ourselves - the personal service.

I really feel for companies who have problems like this, and whilst i can not guarantee the site will work on my server - I always provide a test access to the client to allow them to check it over, and (basic) configuration is always provided by myself. I also usually put through a couple of test enquiries through any forms and enquire that client has received them!

However I am not out there to make as much money as I can as quick as I can, those are not the goals for my business.

 

[jadexsoln]

just been told that if i dont pay for the hosting by tomorrow my site will be taken offline, great customer service eh.
But he did say afterwards that he will keep it hosted until monday to give me a chance to find someone else, great bloke
so i have paid for the hosting and now have no blog, what a week.

Out of interest can you answer this question.

Is it good practice to check forms work before completing a transfer??
Or is this above and beyond the call of duty?

GasAngel - yes it is good practice and not above the call of duty - in fact I would see as part of the duty and would personally do it as a matter of course. I have hosted sites via Fasthosts before and this security issue they stipulate is not really a problem and is fairly basic to adhere to. They clearly state that you have to use -f in PHP mail scripts, and anyone hosting on FH should know this.

Despite what other posts have said for a small basic site Fasthosts is adequate, I have even hosted CMS Joomla sites on FH without an issue - but if you want performance, oh and support from them (they have no concept of this word) then go somewhere else - you get what you pay for.

 

[ServWise]

Marky9378... i have just been looking at your web hosting packages and i noticed the title of the page is still 'untittled document'.

I am looking for a hosting company but i need a large bandwidth as i will be operating music and videos. I was gonna go with fasthosts on there 8.99 package with three months free because that had unlimited bandwidth but i think i better research a bit more now.

Hi newbeats4u,

Whatever you do, if you plan to use a lot of space and bandwidth DO NOT opt for an unlimited space and bandwidth plan like those offered by Fasthosts / 1&1 etc. It may look just like what you need but you'll find it is the opposite.

Please read my blog on why this is a really bad idea and why Unlimited space and bandwidth simply does not exist.

http://www.servwise.com/blog-sam/index.php/2008/08/15/the-truth-about-unlimited-bandwidth-plans/

 

[newbeats4u]

Thanks servwise i have created a new topic as i did not want to take this current topic too far off topic as it is Gasangels question.

 

[MGSteve]

I personally host clients websites on my dedicated server.

To be fair, any serious hosting company will have a dedicated server, we have 3.

Its a classic problem of moving sites, whenever I take an existing site on (which is VERY rare, I tend to talk the client into a new site, for no other factor that I know everything will work!), I always check every part of the site on the new server to make sure it works and then back it up and then re-do the migration again to bring over the latest data (assuming it changes that frequently).

By the sounds of it, being a plumber's site, I would suspect it was mostly static pages with this database bit on the side.

In that case, the new hosting person, in my opinion, has absolutely no excuse for not checking everything.

If everything is still screwed up, drop me a PM with the URL of your site and I'll host the site & email for you if you wish. I'll even migrate it into our CMS platform so you can update the site yourself and add the news system onto it so you can add news articles (basically a blog by any other name!), as long as its a small-ish site, I'll do the migration for free and match whatever your new guy is charging for hosting.

 

[allsquare]

Can you not go back to your 'old' hosts.

Similiar happened to us once before and luckily the old hosts hadnt removed the site and blog from their server yet, so we went back to them cap in hand and everything came 'back to life'.

 

[G. Lasagne]

The saga continues, since changing hosting company i have been getting 5-10 spam messages a day via my callback request form, previously i was getting 1-2 a week.

Obviously the guy who organised the transfer has said its definately not a hosting issue (it never is), but it must be if its only started since chnging host.

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Does your new host have spam filtering on your mailboxes?

Who is the "guy"? (I have a an idea of who it might be, if it's a member on here).

 

[G. Lasagne]

Does your new host have spam filtering on your mailboxes?

Who is the "guy"? (I have a an idea of who it might be, if it's a member on here).

I cant say sorry, i have been threatened that if i say who it is, he will shut my site down, which i can't afford to happen.

Dave

 

I cant say sorry, i have been threatened that if i say who it is, he will shut my site down, which i can't afford to happen.

Dave

And you really want to stay with someone who treats you like that?

Get a backup of your data, go back to your old host or find a new provider (who has a good reputation and can migrate websites properly!).

 

[G. Lasagne]

i have had to pay, so it's too late.
and apparently none of its got anything to do with him anyway.

 

[stugster]

I have to say mate, whoever it is, is taking you for a ride. They should have had the decency to work WITH you to make sure your site was moved over properly and efficiently.

To have the audacity to threaten to bring your site down is even worse. In fact, it's disgusting.

I don't want to know who it is, as it'll just get me annoyed and riled up. But if you need help or assistance finding a solution to the problem, I'm happy to have a look at your site and setup free of charge.

 

[stugster]

Just noticed that Carl has suggested you get a backup and find yourself a new webhost (that only YOU or someone you trust has access to). This is good advice.

 

[Dominic Taylor]

I strongly advise you immediately take a backup of your site as suggested by Carl and Stuart. Then report the member to the forum mod team for threatening another member :/

 

[ServWise]

As has been mentioned, backup and move to a host with some morals.

There are plenty of hosts that are well thought of here (Including us I hope ), make sure you get a personal recommendation and don't look back.

A few tips when looking.

1. Don't go with the over-seller hosts offering unlimited space or bandwidth (See my blog for why), choose a host with realistic plan limits and remember you get what you pay for.
2. Go with a host that is personally recommended if you can.
3. Test there support response times.