Experienced Graduate Gripe

[WarrenS]

Why is it that we all complain about graduates with no experience, but when one is available no one is there to utilise him (me).

Can you help me? I have spent my life since 16 gaining work based learning and education through to a degree in mechanical engineering. Unfortunately I wasn't too comfortable with academia and achieved a 3rd class with honours. Not to worry, i thought, because my experience and personality will raise me above the competition?!

Unfortunately this turned out not to be the case. I have yet to locate a graduate training scheme worth its salt that will accpet a 3rd Class Honours. In hindsight this is probably a good thing as i have had to drive myself through different experiences to keep my personal development on track.

What I really need now is an opportunity to utilise my skills in Business, but failing that some good tips and advice would be gratefully received.

I have planned out some options laid out in the poll below.

 

[Rob Holmes]

Hi Warren,

wow - lots of options in the poll - and noticibly unfocussed <frown>

What are you good at?

Do you prefer to work for others?

Do you like working 15 hours a day?

What do you enjoy doing out of work?

Do you like financial security?

Theres bags of other questions but theres a few to help you work some stuff out.

Would be interested in your response!

Best regards,

Rob

 

[amcphillips]

Unfortunately a third rules you out for almost any graduate scheme I have ever seen. It's look to an employer like you either don't have the intelligence or the drive to complete a degree well (not saying that this is true!!!) And to do a business related graduate scheme you need a business degree generally. I am the opposite way round to you. I'm about to complete an economics degree with a 2:1 and about to start another degree in Motorsport Engineering because I didn't have the grades to do it first time round.

I'd say look for a masters but maybe not an MBA. They are more valuable once you have quite a lot of experience in business. IMO

 

[DuaneJackson]

The answer depends on your long term plan.

If ultimately you want to run your own business. Get a job in a small business. If you just want a bit of security and want to remain an employee then go fo a big firm.

 

[WarrenS]

Wow that was quick... Thanks to all of you for your input.

Matrix: I am happy to work long hours where necessary especially where i know it will have a direct effect on my performance. I am happy to work with others, and for 'another' if that person is leading me in to new areas and challenges. If by financial security you mean a pay cheque every month then that is not a prerequisite. I am naturally tight with my money and have taken options in the past with lower income because they expanded my skills. It is definetly my intention to work independently and have my efforts rewarded in some way. Being self employed may be the only way to achieve this...

Unfocused? I have worked in manufacturing, design, British Army Officer Training, Teaching and general admin. All of this was done to broaden my knowledge so as to improve my chances once i have identified THE opportunity that I am looking for. If by this you mean that I do not know exactly what that opportunity is, then you are correct.

AMCPHILIPS: Thank you for the advice on the MBA. I had suspected as much, I dont think I will taking the MBA option until i have a foothold in business.

DuaneJackson: A small company would definetly allow me more scope to learn and use my initiative with a view to starting my own business as a Long term goal.

 

[Rob Holmes]

Hi Warren,

Yes by unfocussed I meant you didn't know which way to go to the point that you look like you're considering anything.

From your answers my gut feeling is you should take a paid job for the time being - one with potential that will train you and give you some experience and that will enhance your skills so if you want to start your own biz then what you would have learned there will help you.

If you have any interviews don't forget you are interviewing the company as much as they are interviewing you

Hope this helps,

Rob

 

[Cornish Steve]

Warren,

Now that I'm older, I have a different take on this. When I was younger, I was smart, ambitious, and wanted to change the world. I was also naive and had a lot to learn. I thought that my PhD would be an advantage, but most companies believed I had wasted three years of productive work time; this was a real downer.

I obtained my first job (with a top-notch software company in London) by sheer nerve. The company placed a wanted ad in New Scientist for a Principal Consultant. Of course, such a person should have decades of experience, and I had none. Still, I wrote what I thought was a convincing letter and was invited for an interview. The interviewer led me along during the interview, and I felt arrogantly confident. At the end, the interviewer leaned over and said, "You don't have the skills. You don't have any experience. Why should we hire you?".

I learned later that they were so impressed with the self-confidence I displayed that they decided to offer me a different job, one as yet not advertised. I accepted the position and went from there. Pure initiative got me that first job, not my qualifications.

Looking back, though, I wish I had received some type of guidance or counselling. I needed to know that it takes time to gain appropriate work experience. There are some things you simply cannot short-circuit; that means, at the time we are most enthusiastic, we must be patient. Long hours and commitment and initiative can help, but patience is a virtue.

I'd highly recommend getting four or five years of work experience before going to graduate school. I went back after 20 years to get my MBA, and I was so much better prepared for it. Education is an ongoing task, and it requires a balance of theory and practice. It also requires hard work and patience. The key, though, is never to lose sight of your goal. You need a lifelong plan, a sense of vision and destiny that you must never lose.

Right now, I would say understand what legacy you want to leave, decide what it will take to achieve it, put together a 20-year plan, then go for it. Make it your passion. In this light, one-year assignments won't make or break your career, but they will be stepping stones towards your ultimate goal.

It has taken me 22 years in the workplace and three degrees to get me to this point. I have a strong sense of vision, am full of passion and resolve to realise that vision, have bountiful energy still because the vision captivates me, have found the ideal business partner with whom to achieve it, and am very driven. While the vision has changed over time, it has guided me in all my actions. It sounds so arrogant, I know, but I plan to leave my mark on this world.

Don't get hung up on the short term. Demonstrate initiative, work toward your vision, see everything as a stepping stone, and never give up. There's no one right way to achieve your vision; the key is to have one.

I hope this rather long-winded message helps you in your quest to develop your career.

PS - I didn't vote because, in the end, you can realise your dreams through any of these routes.

 

[WarrenS]

Many thanks to all of you for your replies. I have decided on the following.

1) An MBA will wait.
2) Staying as a teacher is not compatible with my long term objective.
3) A large or medium sized employer is not compatible with my long term objective.
3) I am going to start my own business. I am exploring the concept of a Local Service between Domestic/office service Contractors and the customer. I would love to discuss this with you but I think it would be too long for this message.
4) I will remain a teacher in a part time/supply capacity to give a gauranteed minimum income whilst finding my feet.
5) I will explore methods of generating income that could be run in parallel with my local service concept such as Kleeneze's Mass marketing approach ("The Opportunity"). Is anyone familiar with this and have some tips or warnings?

I have felt a lot more comfortable making these decisions with your advice,

Thank you

 

[refreshious]

What do you want in life? do you want to work for yourself and have control of your future or do you want to work for someone else and maybe learn from them?

Don't even bother with an MBA if you want to start and run your own business. Many many people don't even have this and are very successful.. There are more successful entrpreneurs that DON'T have an MBA.

 

[WakingDragon]

Whether or not you should set up a business is a wholly different question to how to go about getting a job.

Unless you are certain (and can prove realistically to yourself) that your business idea will work, then I would be tempted to recommend getting a job in a field related to your long-term business ideas.

A smaller company will give you a better opportunity to experience a wider range of business issues including client handling, management, and profession-specific aspects. Look for companies that you think might be suitable and keep an eye out for job vacancies at them.

If you are applying to a small company/partnership then be aware that they may consider any new employee a high risk. If they are giving you relevant experience then you can offer them flexibility in return by agreeing to work on 3-6 month contracts initially for example.

I have never thought an MBA was worth much if a person did it without quite a few years of relatively senior experience prior to the course.

 

[WarrenS]

Thank you, that is sound adivce. I've definetly hit the idea of an MBA right on the head.

My short term plan is slowly but surely taking shape.

I will keep one foot on the ground with a combination of supply teaching and private tutoring whilst practising basic sales and marketing techniques through door to door selling others products.

I can do this as my overheads are very low. I'm going to see if i can sell myself! (in a completely legal and non-seedy context)

 

[Astaroth]

I went to university to study medicine but fell out with the subject so switched to maths as I thought it would be an easy degree for me but it wasnt something I wanted to do so ended up finishing having not completed my honors year.

If you think it is hard to get a graduate job with a 3rd class honor degree you should try getting one with a pass in a non-honors degree. I went down the route of getting a job with a large employer after finding out that internal applicants for the graduate scheme do not need to actually be graduates but simply of "graduate standard".

For me things worked out well as during the final stage of the selection process one of the MDs on the panel decided to offer me a lower/ middle management job straight off - a grade above where the majority of the graduates get after completing the 2 years scheme.

On the topic of MBAs - there is very little point in doing one if your intention is to go into business yourself. If you decide that self employment isnt for you then an MBA can be good for opening doors but these things go in cycles.... it was only a couple of years ago where an MBA was a requirement to get onto our team and experience was very much secondary to it, the last time we recruited an MBA was listed as being desirable but a much stronger play was put on experience and we are now about to recruit again and there will be no mention of MBAs on the job spec. In a few years time it will probably come full circle again

 

[theMBA]

Wow that was quick... Thanks to all of you for your input.


Unfocused? I have worked in manufacturing, design, British Army Officer Training, Teaching and general admin. All of this was done to broaden my knowledge so as to improve my chances once i have identified THE opportunity that I am looking for. If by this you mean that I do not know exactly what that opportunity is, then you are correct.

Warren,
I'd encourage you to be open to all opportunities that look promising to you, especially as you seem to have a flexible approach to financial rewards. I spent most of my twenties and thirties looking for "The" opportunity, while being employed in various large companies, and I think, as a result, I was over-cautious, which prevented me from exploring many opportunities that might, in fact, have been 'good enough' to take me out of my "wage-slave" life. It's only reaching my fourties (mid-life crisis etc), and doing an MBA, that have re-invigorated me to try out business ventures, and just see where they go.