EU IOSS Signup

[Morning]

How could you not post there? Dbaca is a car crash.

 

[schmexit]

I see there's a lot of us posting both here and that Shopify thread

In case you want to put a bit of pressure on HMRC to pull their finger out, there's an IOSS thread on the HMRC forum that's become a bit of a train wreck. They're really not on top of things.

Can't post the link because I'm 10 posts away from having a high enough standing here to do so.

LOL do you mean this one?

https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/forums/customerforums/vat/c14fc8ab-1c79-eb11-8ced-00155d975a0f

 

[whatsoccurring]

Ha that's the one, I'm Callum on there and the Shopify thread. We're everywhere then

 

[schmexit]

Ha that's the one, I'm Callum on there and the Shopify thread. We're everywhere then

Yes, because we're looking for answers and we're getting none from the government.

 

[Vikkkkki]

I see there's a lot of us posting both here and that Shopify thread

In case you want to put a bit of pressure on HMRC to pull their finger out, there's an IOSS thread on the HMRC forum that's become a bit of a train wreck. They're really not on top of things.

Can't post the link because I'm 10 posts away from having a high enough standing here to do so.

Same haha....I think the main reason is that this policy has too much influence on cross-border online merchants.

 

[Vikkkkki]

Yes, because we're looking for answers and we're getting none from the government.

Where is your warehouse located?

 

[schmexit]

Where is your warehouse located?

Unfortunately, here in the UK.

 

[TKJ-London]

Since HMRC has abandoned UK businesses and there's no tenable solution on the horizon for smaller online businesses, is anyone working with a warehousing/fulfilment service company in the EU? I sell books which are printed in EU and it makes no sense to ship pallets full over here only to face the problem of not being able to ship orders back into the EU.

 

[ADC]

Have you solved the issue now?

Yes had to pay a company in EU to be my representative? Did it through my Chinese supplier though. Everything is cheaper in China, even EU representatives

 

[ADC]

So RM Click & Drop have really made a big F**K up this week.

We use csv upload to send our orders and before 1st July we read all the info from our account manager and on the website about how to set up IOSS numbers in the Settings > Trading Names section and then putting the Trading Name in the csv. Everything was going fine after 1st July with the IOSS number appearing in the Pre Tax Reg Number field on the CN22. Checked with the Royal Mail Account Manager sent her some labels and she said yes everything was fine.

Then this week I just for some other reason had to look at a label and noticed the IOSS number wasn't there. Looked back at the rest of the labels for this week... No IOSS number :-( So got on the phone to click and drop to find out what was going on. "Oh yes. We changed the system last week, you now have to include the IOSS Number in the CSV file, we have created a special field for it."

So they changed the system without telling us, thanks a lot Royal Mail. Utterly useless. Hopefully they realise the cost of their mistake when i knock off all the VAT that customers are going to have to pay (and we are going to have to refund back), off my Royal Mail Bill.

 

[Morning]

Yeah, I think it's fairly clear that C&D weren't doing things right in certain cases, up until the update on 22nd July. I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, of my labels from before that date did not include the IOSS number in their data.

But remember, the IOSS number shouldn't be on the label. That it was appearing on your CN22 was not correct. That's something that one of the updates actually fixed.

 

[ADC]

Yeah, I think it's fairly clear that C&D weren't doing things right in certain cases, up until the update on 22nd July. I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, of my labels from before that date did not include the IOSS number in their data.

But remember, the IOSS number shouldn't be on the label. That it was appearing on your CN22 was not correct. That's something that one of the updates actually fixed.

I didn't really know whether it was supposed to appear on the CN22 or not. But our account manager said it was correct. Now we are putting the IOSS number in the file, it doesn't appear but we have gained a an IOSS logo on the address label.

 

[Morning]

The IOSS number definitely should not appear on any label, no ifs no buts. Your account manager was misinformed. That your labels now have an IOSS logo shows that everything is correct, more than likely.

C&D support have been telling customers that even though the IOSS logo didn't appear on labels that the number was still in the data and everything would be ok. I don't think that was the case. Or perhaps the number was in the wrong data element, and when the receiving postal service inputted the data for the customs declaration, the packages were therefore not logged as IOSS consignments.

 

[Richard NB]

Hello, Im new to this forum and have a question about IOSS. We have registered for IOSS and have a reg number and we are now shipping to the EU using Royal Mail. The reg number is put on the customs form attached to the parcels.

We have customers receiving their parcels, so far in the Netherlands and Austria and the final couriers are still charging them fees and vat to receive their parcels.

Does anyone else have experience of this happening, if so Is this the courier's fault for not identifying the parcel has an IOSS reg number?

Duties have been paid at checkout, could we be missing something else or is this system not fully functional yet?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Morning]

The system is functional, it's just that couriers and postal services - and presumably sellers - have been making mistakes.

Firstly, the IOSS number should not be visible on any document or label. It needs to be kept secret otherwise anyone could use the number and the registered entity will be liable for the VAT on those fraudulent packages.

The number is transmitted in the electronic data that accompanies a package. I'm fairly certain Royal Mail were doing this wrong in certain situations up until the 22nd, and it's possible couriers have also been making mistakes.

If a customer receives a VAT bill for an IOSS package, that means that it has - for whatever reason - not been declared as an IOSS package.

If an IOSS package has been sent for VAT collection, rather than being cleared for delivery, there could be a few reasons:

1. The IOSS number in the data wasn't present, wasn't valid, or was included in the wrong data element.
2. The package value (the intrinsic value not including shipping and insurance if those are separated on the invoice) was over 150 Euro. VAT collected at checkout must be calculated at the daily exchange rate, but customs use the monthly exchange rate (InforEuro). Therefore, if the actual amount paid in Euro is not visible on the package and the exchange rate difference pushes the value above 150 Euro, it will not be declared as an IOSS package.
3. The package contains excise goods.

Please note, duty is not collected on IOSS VAT-paid orders, as duty is not levied up to 150 Euro.

It's possible that declaring postal services and couriers could be making mistakes in the declaration too, or they're unable to correctly declare an IOSS package because the dispatching postal service or courier didn't correctly populate the electronic data.

I think Royal Mail have sorted themselves out with their July 22nd update, hopefully couriers will have done likewise.

 

[NWH]

eBay is now working fine for us when integrated into Click & Drop (we are not using eBay post options). When sending Large Letters the 100mg weight choice to Europe remains at £8.45 for First Class Tracked (we dont have a business account yet). Anyway, I dont think Tracked 24 is accepted at Post Office where we take our post to. The shipping label does not show IOSS number but it shows an IOSS type logo. I only wish we could continue to use our own web site for EU sales. The eBay commission is a killer for small priced products (circa £23 unit charge)

 

[Freakzilla]

Are you sure that's correct. First Class tracked to Europe?

 

[NWH]

Are you sure that's correct. First Class tracked to Europe?

Slip of the tongue....I meant to say, International Tracked and Signed

 

[Foxxycarr]

You should NEVER be able to see your IOSS number on the outside of a package. If someone else gets your number you could get VAT bills that are not yours and good luck sorting that out. This IOSS number thing is incredibly open for potential fraud. As stated above by @Morning this number has to be kept secret and never ever compromised.

 

[fallschirmjaeger]

You should NEVER be able to see your IOSS number on the outside of a package. If someone else gets your number you could get VAT bills that are not yours and good luck sorting that out. This IOSS number thing is incredibly open for potential fraud. As stated above by @Morning this number has to be kept secret and never ever compromised.

The IOSS number is not particular to an individual it is linked to a company like Ebay - which means its the same number for all! You will not receive VAT bills from someone else. If you look you will find various IOSS numbers on the Internet.

 

[japancool]

So what's to stop someone putting in ebay's IOSS number?

 

[fallschirmjaeger]

Nothing!

 

[Foxxycarr]

The IOSS number is not particular to an individual it is linked to a company like Ebay - which means its the same number for all! You will not receive VAT bills from someone else. If you look you will find various IOSS numbers on the Internet.

Cannot actually believe what you posted here but fair enough, you seem to know better than me. Follow the above advice then and see what happens.

 

[whatsoccurring]

FYI HMRC has now deleted that IOSS thread on their forum. Talk about hiding the evidence...

Edit: actually it is still live. For some reason, all the historical links to that thread aren't working anymore, they must have changed the URL and not redirected the old one.

You can find the thread by searching for 'IOSS' on their forum or via your user profile's historical activity (I can't link to the thread as I'm still 8 posts away from that privilege

 

[ADC]

The system is functional, it's just that couriers and postal services - and presumably sellers - have been making mistakes.

Firstly, the IOSS number should not be visible on any document or label. It needs to be kept secret otherwise anyone could use the number and the registered entity will be liable for the VAT on those fraudulent packages.

The number is transmitted in the electronic data that accompanies a package. I'm fairly certain Royal Mail were doing this wrong in certain situations up until the 22nd, and it's possible couriers have also been making mistakes.

If a customer receives a VAT bill for an IOSS package, that means that it has - for whatever reason - not been declared as an IOSS package.

If an IOSS package has been sent for VAT collection, rather than being cleared for delivery, there could be a few reasons:

1. The IOSS number in the data wasn't present, wasn't valid, or was included in the wrong data element.
2. The package value (the intrinsic value not including shipping and insurance if those are separated on the invoice) was over 150 Euro. VAT collected at checkout must be calculated at the daily exchange rate, but customs use the monthly exchange rate (InforEuro). Therefore, if the actual amount paid in Euro is not visible on the package and the exchange rate difference pushes the value above 150 Euro, it will not be declared as an IOSS package.
3. The package contains excise goods.

Please note, duty is not collected on IOSS VAT-paid orders, as duty is not levied up to 150 Euro.

It's possible that declaring postal services and couriers could be making mistakes in the declaration too, or they're unable to correctly declare an IOSS package because the dispatching postal service or courier didn't correctly populate the electronic data.

I think Royal Mail have sorted themselves out with their July 22nd update, hopefully couriers will have done likewise.

Should also be noted that IOSS doesn't work with all Royal Mail International services. So you need to make sure you are using the right service.

 

[Mr Dibb]

So what's to stop someone putting in ebay's IOSS number?

You need to use a business service and complete a commercial invoice or declaration. You are easily indefinable and prosecuted.

Of course, whether various customs are taking notes as to what goes through is a different matter.

 

[Mr Dibb]

The IOSS number definitely should not appear on any label, no ifs no buts. Your account manager was misinformed. That your labels now have an IOSS logo shows that everything is correct, more than likely.

It still appears on labels produced by Pro Shipping/API.

 

[Morning]

The IOSS number is not particular to an individual it is linked to a company like Ebay - which means its the same number for all! You will not receive VAT bills from someone else. If you look you will find various IOSS numbers on the Internet.

This isn’t really up for debate, the IOSS numbers must be secure and not on labels. It’s isn’t just marketplaces that have numbers - any business big or small could have a unique number and if that number isn’t secure anyone could use it.

People really need to start reading the advice on the IOSS published by the EU. None of this is unknown information.

 

[Morning]

It still appears on labels produced by Pro Shipping/API.

Then that is very much a problem for any business using those services and a unique IOSS number.

 

[Morning]

Online marketplaces have chosen to have their IOSS numbers freely available, presumably because it’s easier/ more convenient than having the numbers sent direct from their platform to cooperating shipping services; that’s what the EU suggested, at least for the short term, but EBay, Etsy et al chose to make their numbers freely known.

But that doesn’t mean all IOSS numbers should be freely available. They must be secure otherwise they can be misused.

 

[schmexit]

In today's email from HMRC:


Question: Can I register for the Import One Stop Shop in the United Kingdom?

Answer: The United Kingdom (UK) is taking a phased approach to delivering the VAT IT systems linked to the EU’s e-commerce package, and the Import One Stop Shop registration in the UK is not currently available for businesses.

The UK is implementing these changes in Northern Ireland, in accordance with the UK obligations under the Northern Ireland Protocol, where EU VAT rules with respect to goods will continue to apply. However, Northern Ireland is, and will remain, part of the UK’s VAT system.

If your business is based in Great Britain (England, Wales or Scotland), EU rules allow you to register for IOSS in any EU member state, as long as you appoint an EU established intermediary to represent you.

Further guidance can be found online.

Question: When I register for the Import One Stop Shop in EU, why do I need to appoint an intermediary that is established in the EU?

Answer: The Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) is an EU system. If you decide to use IOSS you will need to appoint an EU-established intermediary.

The UK government is currently in discussions with the EU Commission about the issue of intermediaries, in relation to the EU IOSS scheme, to see whether we can agree that this condition should not apply to UK businesses.

Further guidance can be found online.

 

[Morning]

Thanks for sharing. At least that offers some hope. UK Gov really are the pits though. Could've avoided any need for discussions if the VAT agreement had just matched the terms we were already under previously.

 

[schmexit]

Thanks for sharing. At least that offers some hope. UK Gov really are the pits though. Could've avoided any need for discussions if the VAT agreement had just matched the terms we were already under previously.

Exactly. In the meantime, businesses are suffering and the UK government do not understand the urgency of this.

 

[TKJ-London]

I've just come across this special offer for IOSS registration and intermediary services:
See the ship24 website slash ioss (can't post the actual link here)

It seems to be quite reasonable compared with alternative options.

Also on the Post Office website I found these posting instructions for sales via marketplaces to be oddly interesting, perhaps it could help someone here:

Items worth under €150 sold to the EU through an IOSS registered marketplace:
1. Write IOSS and the marketplace name on the front of your item near the address, eg 'IOSS EBAY'
2. Tell the branch you've sold the item through an IOSS registered marketplace so we can ensure the correct IOSS number is allocated
3. Complete your customs form legibly with all the necessary details as normal
The marketplaces currently using this process are:
eBay, Etsy, Not on the High Street

 

[schmexit]

I've just come across this special offer for IOSS registration and intermediary services:
See the ship24 website slash ioss (can't post the actual link here)

It seems to be quite reasonable compared with alternative options.

Also on the Post Office website I found these posting instructions for sales via marketplaces to be oddly interesting, perhaps it could help someone here:

Items worth under €150 sold to the EU through an IOSS registered marketplace:
1. Write IOSS and the marketplace name on the front of your item near the address, eg 'IOSS EBAY'
2. Tell the branch you've sold the item through an IOSS registered marketplace so we can ensure the correct IOSS number is allocated
3. Complete your customs form legibly with all the necessary details as normal
The marketplaces currently using this process are:
eBay, Etsy, Not on the High Street

This is €99 one off + €49 per month + 1% of the total declared value (Per shipment) + If the VAT payments are processed through credit card, you will be charged an additional 3% fee to cover the Stripe processing fee)

Any other suggestions for affordable IOSS solutions?

 

[Rory1966]

HMRC just released a document regarding IOSS. I can't post the link on here but they do suggest that they will be bringing out an IOSS registration solution at some point. God knows when.

Question: Can I register for the Import One Stop Shop in the United Kingdom?

Answer: The United Kingdom (UK) is taking a phased approach to delivering the VAT IT systems linked to the EU’s e-commerce package, and the Import One Stop Shop registration in the UK is not currently available for businesses.

The UK is implementing these changes in Northern Ireland, in accordance with the UK obligations under the Northern Ireland Protocol, where EU VAT rules with respect to goods will continue to apply. However, Northern Ireland is, and will remain, part of the UK’s VAT system.

If your business is based in Great Britain (England, Wales or Scotland), EU rules allow you to register for IOSS in any EU member state, as long as you appoint an EU established intermediary to represent you.

 

[JPMiddleton]

HMRC just released a document regarding IOSS. I can't post the link on here but they do suggest that they will be bringing out an IOSS registration solution at some point. God knows when.

Question: Can I register for the Import One Stop Shop in the United Kingdom?

Answer: The United Kingdom (UK) is taking a phased approach to delivering the VAT IT systems linked to the EU’s e-commerce package, and the Import One Stop Shop registration in the UK is not currently available for businesses.

The UK is implementing these changes in Northern Ireland, in accordance with the UK obligations under the Northern Ireland Protocol, where EU VAT rules with respect to goods will continue to apply. However, Northern Ireland is, and will remain, part of the UK’s VAT system.

If your business is based in Great Britain (England, Wales or Scotland), EU rules allow you to register for IOSS in any EU member state, as long as you appoint an EU established intermediary to represent you.

if you’re not going to read the whole thread before contributing, could you at least read the latest posts? The exact same text was posted just over 24 hours ago.

 

[Ty_123]

Hi all - just a quick message.
I have registered for IOSS and have been putting it on my CN23 and also included it on invoices for packages going from UK to EU, but I am finding many customers are still having to pay customs fees, etc. when it reaches the EU.

I made a thread about this : ioss-registered-but-eu-customers-still-paying-customs-fees.414061/

If others are experiencing the same issue, would you be able to share your experience on that thread? I want to try to work out exactly what could be the problem and maybe we can give each other advice?

Thank you.

 

[Morning]

Who are you shipping with? They should have advised how you supply the IOSS number. Putting it on CN23 labels and on invoices will do nothing but leave your number exposed to misuse. The number is included in electronic data the precedes the package and if it’s not there, it won’t be logged as an IOSS package and it will be marked for VAT collection.

 

[Ty_123]

Who are you shipping with? They should have advised how you supply the IOSS number. Putting it on CN23 labels and on invoices will do nothing but leave your number exposed to misuse. The number is included in electronic data the precedes the package and if it’s not there, it won’t be logged as an IOSS package and it will be marked for VAT collection.

Thanks for your reply Morning.

99% of our packages are shipped with Royal Mail.
We're putting the IOSS number where we used to put our EORI / VAT number.
If it's not declared there, where should it be declared?

Our systems only submit electronic data like IOSS, etc. when we send via Parcelforce.