EU IOSS Signup

[whatsoccurring]

I've not looked into it properly, do you know the rough costs and how you go about it? (edit: looks like €1+ per shipment)

Do you charge the customer VAT, pay it back to CrossBorder It, and they send the stuff using their IOSS (at a charge)? Essentially like RM PDDP will do?

I'll check it out, it's on the radar. I'm just concentrating on sorting some postages rates out at present but will get round to looking at it.

I dispatch using RM's normal IOSS approved services through eBay, via Click+Drop, and haven't attached any invoices, it's such a waste of paper and makes everything twice as long to process. If that becomes the norm on everything it is going to be very laborious

EDIT: I sent a large letter tracked using RM's IOSS approved Tracked service (it was an eBay sale) on 5th to France, no invoice attached, value is about £50, showing on the CN22 as normal with the HS codes etc. Item was delivered today no problems.

Apologies for the delayed reply. What they've told me on email (the website is woefully short on info), is that it's 1 Euro an item, 20 Euros a month, 3 months minimum term.

Yes, I think that process you mention is spot on. You have to upload daily in order to take care of the customs clearance side of things.

So far (because I switched off our Shopify site for EU sales) we're just handling Amazon sales right now. Seems to be working fine through click and drop, but NO IDEA what to do in the instance of a resend or a return. This is the kind of roll-out where if it was a business requiring it, you'd expect it to have been postponed by now. Of course, this won't be postponed, so we have so much fun to look forward to between now and the end of the holiday period.

 

[Morning]

Do you charge the customer VAT, pay it back to CrossBorder It, and they send the stuff using their IOSS (at a charge)? Essentially like RM PDDP will do?

Crossborderit is an intermediary service, so each of their clients gets their own unique IOSS number. It's just a very cheap intermediary, with a shonky website that gives very bad advice, though that's corrected in their terms and conditions pdf.

RM DPPD is not an IOSS service - items sent by DPPD do not use an IOSS number.

 

[whatsoccurring]

Crossborderit is an intermediary service, so each of their clients gets their own unique IOSS number. It's just a very cheap intermediary, with a shonky website that gives very bad advice, though that's corrected in their terms and conditions pdf.

RM DPPD is not an IOSS service - items sent by DPPD do not use an IOSS number.

I'd love to use RM DPPD, it just seems like we'll be waiting forever for it to be rolled out, and in the meantime, I'm hemorrhaging sales. My thinking is it's better to use Crossborderit now [totally agree their website is not fit for purpose for prospective customers] and then jump to RM DPPD (or HMRC IOSS, if they've pulled their finger out) later this year once there's a reliable alternative that supports most/all EU countries.

RM DPPD also won't provide me a solution for DHL deliveries, so perhaps I would hold onto CrossborderIt for the few EU deliveries I send via DHL, as the DHL fees are meant to be high.

Edit: just remembered Shopify might now allow me to do such an elaborate arrangement. With Shopify (if any of you here are using it), it seems once you change your settings to providing an IOSS number, you can never revert back.

It's this mess of a situation that is the reason I haven't proceeded with anything yet. Just waiting for the dust to clear. 12 days into the new rules and the sand storm hasn't left yet..

 

[whatsoccurring]

Quick update:

Our RM account manager has advised that my fears were correct, I didn't misinterpret their website: all PDDP items are being charged package rates. Large Letter isn't supported yet.

If anyone can get out of them when they might be supporting Large Letter, do share.

 

[NWH]

The RM approved, Taxamo Assure service still only talks about parcels. Does anyone know if they or similar services are handling Large Letters? I only send Large Letters 60 to 300 grms.

 

[Morning]

The RM approved, Taxamo Assure service still only talks about parcels. Does anyone know if they or similar services are handling Large Letters? I only send Large Letters 60 to 300 grms.

Royal Mail Click and Drop support assured me that IOSS packages can be sent as Large Letters.

Edit: Though that's pay as you go C&D. No idea what OBA C&D is doing.

 

[Kate881]

Quick update:

Our RM account manager has advised that my fears were correct, I didn't misinterpret their website: all PDDP items are being charged package rates. Large Letter isn't supported yet.

If anyone can get out of them when they might be supporting Large Letter, do share.

100g Large Letter via RM site, not logged in, just as a consumer allows me to enter my own IOSS & £3 for Economy non-tracked hope that helps!

 

[whatsoccurring]

100g Large Letter via RM site, not logged in, just as a consumer allows me to enter my own IOSS & £3 for Economy non-tracked hope that helps!

Thanks Kate, yeah I think IOSS seems to be the only answer at this time for businesses with any relevant proportion of Large Letter deliveries.

 

[LHow]

Shopwired tried to integrate Taxamo & gave up, holes in the API & general 'they were not very helpful' was the impression I got from the SW guys. They have set up so I can charge the correct % VAT for each so I can manually update CBIT until a proper solution is found.

Newcomer here, thanks for everyone's input on the issues of IOSS, Royal Mail DDP, etc, it's good to have found some straightforward information.
Regarding Shopwired's issue with Taxamo integration, it's outside my understanding & I don't know if it will help but I came across the following Taxamo test code - I can't post the full link but its at https github dot com/mdodesign/taxamo perhaps you can pass it onto Shopwired?
Also, for anyone using Open Cart, Google "opencartx taxamo integration".
At least Shopwired have the VAT set up, my ecommerce platform isn't even ready yet!

 

[JPMiddleton]

Yes, Johnathan at Get Clear Thinking, put the Opencart extension together for us and it’s working very nicely.

He is a very well regarded developer for Opencart and his support is superb.

I would definitely recommend it:

https://www.opencart.com/index.php?.../info&extension_id=42301&filter_search=Taxamo

 

[Melody Lewis]

Hi
I am researching this for the company I work for.
I have read the 19 pages of the thread, but am not sure this has been clarified?
The PDDP service from RM - this is the most attractive option at the moment, although the list of countries is low.
As it is not IOSS based - do we charge the customer selling price and separate VAT charge (later paid to RM). Or do we have to increase the retail price and sell zero VAT?
Then how is it all shown on the commercial invoice we now have to attach?
Thanks

 

[JPMiddleton]

Duty Pre Paid (no idea why RM are calling it PDDP instead of DDP) of any sort, with any courier should be handled the same. Similar to what you'd do for a UK sale.

Product Total £100
Delivery £10
VAT 20% (France, for example) £22

If you do not split it properly and show it like this your total will be £132 and you will actually pay £26.40 and lose £4.40 in the process.

 

[Melody Lewis]

Duty Pre Paid (no idea why RM are calling it PDDP instead of DDP) of any sort, with any courier should be handled the same. Similar to what you'd do for a UK sale.

Product Total £100
Delivery £10
VAT 20% (France, for example) £22

If you do not split it properly and show it like this your total will be £132 and you will actually pay £26.40 and lose £4.40 in the process.

Many thanks for confirming

 

[schmexit]

So what do we know now? Is there a way to sign up for IOSS without a fiscal representative?

 

[Morning]

No. HMRC still mention a UK portal for IOSS registration, but what form that will take and when it will appear is unknown.

 

[schmexit]

No. HMRC still mention a UK portal for IOSS registration, but what form that will take and when it will appear is unknown.

Thanks! Oh, HMRC. What a mess.

 

[LHow]

If anyone has signed up for IOSS , you have to tell the HMRC :
"If you sell low value goods in consignments not exceeding £135 in value into Northern Ireland and are registered for the VAT Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) in the EU, you must tell HMRC your IOSS registration number."

Sorry, I can't post the link, but search "GOV UK Guidance Tell HMRC you're registered for VAT Import One Stop Shop"

 

[RBH]

Customer support is utter %^£$, getting a straight answer from them is like getting a straight answer from HMRC, but it seems that the Royal Mail PDDP option is only available to businesses with a "postal account". This account type is only viable for companies that send 20+ pieces a week, so once again, small and hobby interest businesses either go to the wall or have to channel their sales through large corporations which cream off the profits for doing nothing. You couldn't make it up.

If it's any consolation, though, I sell through Discogs as well as my own site, and they are based in Netherlands. They are deducting tax for UK-EU sales but cannot provide an IOSS number because they have not yet received it from the Dutch tax authority. I have no printable words.

 

[Graham Wharton]

Just to let people know, I import orders into my store from Magento. If I put an IOSS number in the trading names section in C&D, it is not included with the customs electronic information (or the CN22) as I have started to receive refused parcels back from the EU where they have been billed for VAT.

 

[RBH]

I set up a trading name with the Amazon IOSS ID on C&D and made very sure the IOSS number was printed on the CN22. Check your set up, it definitely did work for mine.

 

[Kate881]

Customer support is utter %^£$, getting a straight answer from them is like getting a straight answer from HMRC, but it seems that the Royal Mail PDDP option is only available to businesses with a "postal account". This account type is only viable for companies that send 20+ pieces a week, so once again, small and hobby interest businesses either go to the wall or have to channel their sales through large corporations which cream off the profits for doing nothing. You couldn't make it up.

If you have an IOSS number you can use RM still just not via their PDDP solution, that's what I'm doing via Crossborderit, RM & UPS both allow me to enter my IOSS number when processing shipments.

 

[Graham Wharton]

If anyone has signed up for IOSS , you have to tell the HMRC :
"If you sell low value goods in consignments not exceeding £135 in value into Northern Ireland and are registered for the VAT Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) in the EU, you must tell HMRC your IOSS registration number."

Sorry, I can't post the link, but search "GOV UK Guidance Tell HMRC you're registered for VAT Import One Stop Shop"

Wait what! So a GB seller, registered for UK VAT and IOSS, sells something to northern ireland, we now remit the VAT to the EU?

 

[RBH]

If you have an IOSS number you can use RM still just not via their PDDP solution, that's what I'm doing via Crossborderit, RM & UPS both allow me to enter my IOSS number when processing shipments.

And how do I get an IOSS number for less than an arm and a leg?

 

[Graham Wharton]

I set up a trading name with the Amazon IOSS ID on C&D and made very sure the IOSS number was printed on the CN22. Check your set up, it definitely did work for mine.

This works for marketplace integrations as the IOSS number is obtained from the integration, and the trading names section is ignored.

For non marketplace integrations its not so clear. If I create an order manually in C&D under the trading name then the IOSS number is included on both the CN22 and electronic data, but if I import an order from Magento under the same trading name, the IOSS number is not used.

 

[Graham Wharton]

This works for marketplace integrations as the IOSS number is obtained from the integration, and the trading names section is ignored.

For non marketplace integrations its not so clear. If I create an order manually in C&D under the trading name then the IOSS number is included on both the CN22 and electronic data, but if I import an order from Magento under the same trading name, the IOSS number is not used.

I've just done a bit more digging.

I imported an order into C&D for a test parcel to belgium. I setup an IOSS number in the trading names section. If I placed an order for postage code IE1, the label did not have any IOSS indication on it at all. If I placed the same order under the code DE4, the label included an IOSS icon. The Royal Mail FAQ states you must use these codes. I'm sure this was mentioned previously in the thread but it passed me by, so here they are again.

 

[schmexit]

By the way, when sending goods to the UK and declaring the value for VAT, should one include the postage charged or not?

 

[Graham Wharton]

If you are evaluating whether you breach the £135 threshold you do not include postage. That is the intrinsic value of the goods excluding postage. However once you have determined you need to apply VAT, you charge VAT on both the goods value and the postage.

 

[schmexit]

If you are evaluating whether you breach the £135 threshold you do not include postage. That is the intrinsic value of the goods excluding postage. However once you have determined you need to apply VAT, you charge VAT on both the goods value and the postage.

I am not charging any VAT. I am sending goods over £135 to the EU and the recipient will be liable for VAT. When asked to declare the value of the shipment, do I include or exclude the shipping fee paid to me by the recipient, which is shown on the invoice?

 

[Graham Wharton]

You should declare the goods value and shipping separately. If you just leave the shipping off, or include it in a single price, then the receiving customs offices are likely (I have seen them do it to me) make up a value for shipping of their own (circa 100EUR) and add that to your declared value and then charge VAT on the whole lot. If you didnt charge your customer any shipping and shipped it for free, make sure it is clear that you are declaring zero for shipping. I always put Shipping £0.00 (included in product price)

 

[LHow]

Wait what! So a GB seller, registered for UK VAT and IOSS, sells something to northern ireland, we now remit the VAT to the EU?

I spotted the info on the Gov uk site. We don't have an IOSS number ourselves (can't afford the intermediary costs) but I thought the info might be of use on here.
I think HMRC might need to know your IOSS so as to avoid this situation occurring i.e. northern ireland VAT going to the EU.
As many people have said the whole situation with EU VAT/IOSS is confusing already, & the rules for Northern Ireland seem to be different as they're still part of the UK.

EDIT : from gov uk site
If you’re UK VAT registered
From 1 July 2021 if you’re registered for IOSS you must account for VAT on the sales of eligible low value goods in consignments not exceeding £135 in value into Northern Ireland on your IOSS return.

If you make supplies of goods that are not covered under the IOSS scheme, you must account for VAT under the normal rules

If you’re not UK VAT registered
From 1 July 2021, if you’re a business in Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland) you do not need to charge VAT on sales of low value goods into Northern Ireland.

 

[LHow]

There's interesting discussion on community dot shopify dot com - search "EU-Import-One-Stop-Shop-IOSS" - on page 28 the rep Dbaca from Crossborderit states that "The IOSS rules are different than the VAT rules and does not require you to collect VAT on shipping. " In a further comment he quotes from EU regs under
"Definitions and main customs concepts 1.3.1. Intrinsic value
This definition applies for the implementation of the 150€ threshold both for customs and VAT purposes, regardless of the VAT scheme used.... “intrinsic value" means:
(a) for commercial goods: the price of the goods themselves when sold for export to the customs territory of the Union, excluding transport and insurance costs, unless they are included in the price and not separately indicated on the invoice."

Can anyone confirm that under the IOSS scheme no VAT is chargeable on shipping goods from UK to EU?
(I'm aware that if no IOSS or if goods value is over £135 threshold then VAT would be charged in the EU country to the customer on shipping as well as goods value)

 

[Morning]

Yeah, he's wrong. Shipping costs are liable for VAT, but (as Graham Wharton has said) they don't count towards intrinsic value.

Page 69 of the Explanatory Notes: "To be noted that VAT is applied on the total value of the sale (e.g. the EUR 160 value of the goods and the transport charges."

This is from a bit explaining how to calculate intrinsic value - 140 euro goods, 20 euro shipping, 32 euro VAT.

Another reason to avoid Crossborderit.

 

[LHow]

Thank you @Morning for confirming that VAT is chargeable on both goods & shipping whatever the circumstances - IOSS or non-IOSS, I have now found the info on Page 69 of the Explanatory Notes as you quoted. I thought it would be peculiar to treat VAT differently in the 2 scenarios, this situation is complex enough as it is!
Can anyone who is signed up to Crossborderit point them to the correct info?

 

[Morning]

Pretty sure this is the document that the Crossborderit guy quotes (page 10): https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custo...t_and_export_of_low_value_consignments_en.pdf

However, page 19 and 20 detail how to calculate the VAT 'tax base' - the 'intrinsic value' plus the 'transport and insurance costs to the destination'.

Page 20 also includes a whacking great table of examples which clearly have VAT applied to 'transport fees'.

So he basically didn't read the whole document.

 

[Vikkkkki]

You should be alright with chemicals, I think. You can always use the manufacturer for your Responsible Person anyway.

We sell electrical items manufactured in China, so a bit more hassle for us.

Have you solved the issue now?

 

[schmexit]

You should declare the goods value and shipping separately. If you just leave the shipping off, or include it in a single price, then the receiving customs offices are likely (I have seen them do it to me) make up a value for shipping of their own (circa 100EUR) and add that to your declared value and then charge VAT on the whole lot. If you didnt charge your customer any shipping and shipped it for free, make sure it is clear that you are declaring zero for shipping. I always put Shipping £0.00 (included in product price)

I see, thanks! Some courier websites ask for a mandatory HS code for each line, what should I pit for shipping?

 

[JPMiddleton]

What courier is that? Sounds like that courier is as professional as CrossborderIt.

HS codes are used to define and classify products, and that's it.

 

[LHow]

Pretty sure this is the document that the Crossborderit guy quotes (page 10): (link removed)

However, page 19 and 20 detail how to calculate the VAT 'tax base' - the 'intrinsic value' plus the 'transport and insurance costs to the destination'.

Page 20 also includes a whacking great table of examples which clearly have VAT applied to 'transport fees'.

So he basically didn't read the whole document.

Thank you for the further information & also for forwarding the info to Crossborderit via the Shopify forum. I will keep an eye on further developments!

 

[schmexit]

What courier is that? Sounds like that courier is as professional as CrossborderIt.

HS codes are used to define and classify products, and that's it.

I thought so.

Any parcel broker online asks you to declare each product, quantity, price per unit and the HS code. The total must match the declared value. There's no option to enter the shipping cost.

 

[whatsoccurring]

I see there's a lot of us posting both here and that Shopify thread

In case you want to put a bit of pressure on HMRC to pull their finger out, there's an IOSS thread on the HMRC forum that's become a bit of a train wreck. They're really not on top of things.

Can't post the link because I'm 10 posts away from having a high enough standing here to do so.