Engine Carbon cleaning....new business.

[alwaysinamess]

I have been for sometime watching some guys on facebook who have started a type of Hydrogen type cleaner, now the people doing this are busy but there is still a market for it, I notice that the market is not as swamped as it is with oven cleaners (my previous thought for a business).

The machine to use varies in price as does the way it works, the machine I am looking at costs 10,000USD, but apart from one guy who has a 6,000 USD machine most of the machines people are using in the UK can be bought for about £1,500.

people charge anywhere between £70 and £120 for a clean and some have won some large contracts, there is one guy that had a deal to clean 47 Dump trucks, ( the clean process benefits vehicles that make short or stop start journeys ), with the 47 trucks cleaned I would imagine that paid for the machine outright.

I am giving this some serious consideration, however I will note I am not looking to do this in the UK but in Spain and possibly other European countries.

i have had previous business since 2002 and my last went tits up, but I have no issues working for myself but I do see some risk in this, only because the machine I want is vastly superior and more expensive than the models used in the main in the UK.

One of the UK companies is selling franchises already, here is the facebook page of one guy which can give some food for thought.

https://www.facebook.com/Automotive-Carbon-Engine-Cleaning-1753212978242316/

I have approx 100k GBP to last me the rest of my life, so I want to take a small chunk of this to start a new business to give me some income, I think this business is lucrative if in the UK,however not knowing too much about the mechanics etc will be a stumbling block in persuading people to utilize my service. There is something that gives me confidence and that is the supplier has already sold one machine to a guy in Madrid, so he has seen some potential, I hope when it lands I can go and meet him and then maybe I can also be a distributor for my province.

They say the machine is a money printer but I worry because where I live is dog eat dog and there will soon be rivals if others see the potential, my worry is they go for the cheaper machine, I could also do this, or I could start with the cheaper machine.

One worry for me is maintenance and failure of the machine, It comes from China, that takes 6 weeks, there is a manual for the machine I have already and I know someone who has bought from this company the previous model, they had a issue and they were sound enough to bodge it until waiting for a replacement part, I know the care is there but it is a worry for me, this is one of the con's I have

I would be interested in any positive and negative thoughts from you guys here. TIA

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Is the benefits worth the extra charge and whilst customers may pay a low price will they pay more for only a small amount of cleaning

To me I personally would never use it unless my engine failed its MOT which would probably be at 100,000miles or more when I would try a injector cleaner for a couple of quid, a company with 20 high mileage taxi's may consider it a good buy

 

[alwaysinamess]

It is about promotion and cars such as BMW which if you have a DPF issue that can cost in excess of 3.5k for 2009+ models, this clears that fault.

I am not looking at charging customers more, I am looking at having the best machine that does it quicker, and a delay on the machine paying for itself compared to a cheaper model.

I appreciate your thoughts,thanks

 

[sirearl]

Have you proof that this method works.?

Sounds a bit dodgy sticking water in a hot engine to me and I can't see it having much effect as the water would evaporate instantly.

 

[Deleted member 226268]

.

It is hard to understand how this system claims to clean off baked on carbon deposits
inside the engine, by simply making the engine run hotter.
This will just bake on the deposits even harder.

Nothing in this system would actually dissolve the carbon deposits.
There are no actual chemicals involved in this "treatment" that would soften and dissolve carbon.

The separated Hydrogen and Oxygen gas would just simply re-combine and the net result
will be Zilch.
Nowhere does it mention that it cleans the fuel injectors.

The whole promotion and sales of this machine and system seems to be based purely on unsubstantiated customer feedback and hear-say.

Well into the realms of Snake-Oil-Medicine-Man-Salesman hype.

Tell the ignorant BMW owner
( Ignorant in the sense that the owner knows absolutely nothing about engines and their workings )

that this device will improve the performance of their engine while he hands over £ 200, and the owner will automatically be overjoyed with his perceived dramatically improved performance of his engine.

Although nothing inside the engine will have actually changed at all.
No carbon will have been cleaned off anything.

I cannot find any lab / university papers on this system, it reminds me of the
famous Motorcycle-That-Runs-On-Water....SCAM.

The well tried and tested carbon removal solution for diesel engines is Red-ex.
Since the 1930's or so.
https://www.holtsauto.com/redex/products/diesel-system-cleaner/

from any Halfords stores.

About £ 7 for half a litre, just throw it into your tank while filling up at the petrol station.
Once every six months.
Dissolves all the carbon in the engine.
Even the ignorant BMW owner can do that himself.


So for that reason, I would say don't touch this dodgy business idea.
Go back to the oven cleaning idea !

At least the customer can see that their oven is now sparkling clean and fresh !

.

 

[Mitch3473]

I'm always wary about these 'car add on' franchises. Firstly, I didn't know car internals needed cleaning, a good service and a blast on the motorway was the way forward and secondly, how many other schemes like this start up and then dissappear without a trace. Upholstery sanitisor, miracle wax coatings that never need to be polished, Fuel additives, " get more miles per gallon etc etc......" waterless washes, Rinse aids, windscreen clearing additives. The list is almost endless.
Halfords will be selling the kit in 2 years time.

 

[alwaysinamess]

This is the Machine I am looking at (the expensive one) this one does use a cleaning agent also.

The machine has arrived now in Madrid, in 14 days more or less I will have my money and I will arrange to visit the buyer if possible, my view is this man here has seen some potential in this machine.

http://www.hhocarboncleaner.com/Pro...mncKHrC-0fvV_Bge_1C13zeAkJXFgaaDlEaAk3B8P8HAQ

I am not looking at this as a long term solution, because I accept what the guy above say's in the fact that every man and his dog will be doing this maybe in 2 years, but the people I see on facebook have work every day netting at least £200-300 a day

 

[Mr A P Davies]

So this is basically just a glorified static water injection kit?
You are aware that you can do exactly the same thing with a knapsack sprayer, for £40-£100, wall paper stripper, or even a little hand help water squirter, for a couple of quid?

There is no question about the benefits of water injection, no snake oil involved.
It removes carbon, and releases stuck rings, end of.
It's great for big, under laboured engines, that never really get hot.
Good luck convincing those who know otherwise.
Call me a blue face liar if you like, but I've done this.

No new tech here, just an over priced wall paper stripper.........
Go buy it, you'll probably make a fortune.
Once folk feel how much better the engine runs, they'll want you back.

 

[alwaysinamess]

Thanks for that comment, I really appreciate it. I assume you are a mechanic.

I have a friend here who also knows a lot about caked on carbon, he bought a Merc E300 that spent the first 13 years of its life in jersey where I think that max speed limit is 40.50mph and because of the carbon deposits he has had some issues with it and understands how this process could have eliminated some of the expense he has had lately.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Where about's in the engine is this carbon buildup

I remember seeing a "Wheeler Dealer" program when they cleaned a engine and it made a great difference to the exhaust readings, but though it was about chemicals doing something cleaning the waterways that enabled it to run at lower heat, but assume it would only be used on very old cars that had not used anti freeze, but could be wrong

Definitely would not like to be the first in a area to try and sell it which I imagine will be a hard job

 

[Deleted member 226268]

.

All that carbon you see in the sales video, coming out of the exhaust pipe, is loose soot that has
accumulated inside the exhaust system, which is perfectly normal.

Loose deposits built up over time just like inside the chimney on a wood burner fire.

You can try this for your self at home.
Put the garden hose into the exhaust pipe and fill the exhaust system with water.
Start the engine.
You will be amazed how much black soot comes out of the exhaust system, but non of it
actually came from the internal parts of the engine.


The machine, as Mr Davies suggests above, injects water vapour into the engine air intake.
This water vapour goes through the engine, harmlessly, and is turned into steam, which condenses inside the exhaust pipe and softens the loose carbon inside the pipe and silencer boxes.

But it only washes out the loose soot from inside the exhaust system.

No burnt-on carbon on the pistons and valves is removed.

The sales pitch for these machines totally relies on you naturally assuming that the carbon is actually being cleaned out from the engine itself.

This is a very clever visual sales con-trick, - Scam designed to make you think that the machine cleans the carbon out of the actual engine.

" Look at all that carbon coming out of the exhaust pipe !
You can see that the machine works really well ! "

What B.S.

No one is going to take their engine apart to check that the machine actually worked as promised in the sales pitch.

.

 

[Mr A P Davies]

Water injection will take carbon off the top of the piston, and out of the combustion chamber. It will also release stuck rings. Yes, I'm a mechanic, yes, I've seen what water injection can do.
Yes, most of what you see coming out of the exhaust is from the exhaust itself, but not all of it.
There is absolutely nothing new about this, nor is anything in any doubt.
Only the fact that the machine is last centurys news, dressed up with todays marketing.

To be honest, I tend just to hitch up to a heavy trailer and tow it up some hills, when the engine in my truck gets a bit sluggish from coke buildup. Has a similar effect, but that is not always possible with all diesels.

I also run diesels on veg oil and bio diesel.
This mostly puts me into the category of folk who play with Ouija boards, and eat children.
Besides that, I've recovered two engines that were suffering chronic ring gumming from running veg oil, to the point where they were missing on one or more cylinders, and running on their sump oil.
I've also saved at least three more from chronic ring gumming, and know of at least another half dozen that have benefited from water injection.
Admittedly, this is less about removing carbon, but it's the same principle.

Three quarter revs, let her have it, slowly, through the inlet pipe. Don't go in through the turbo, if there is one, it'll kill the turbo.
You'll soon know if your giving her to much, she'll start knocking.

Last one I did, I gave her about six litres, over 20 minutes, with a knapsack sprayer.
This engine would hardly run from lack of compression, and was picking up the sump oil the instant the turbo kicked in.
Wasn't quite right, so did the same again, a few days later.
Drove around in it for six months, went like a good 'un, till one day, it was ticking over on the drive, it picked up the sump oil, and revved it's guts out, while I ran for cover..........(automatic box, can't stall it)
The fumes went straight under my mobile home, which then smelled beautifully of burned oil and aluminium for a week.

Edited to add....... I'm talking about bigger, older diesels, and commercial diesels, in regards to water injection, not these tiny little newer ones in cars. If they are coked up, either there is something wrong with them, or they need a good thrashing.
Not heard of it being used for dodgy DPF, but doesn't mean it isn't.

 

[Mitch3473]

Save your money. Only one person will make a killing out of this and that's the guy who designs a smart looking box with very little in it, some fancy bullshit and an operation manual.

 

[Clinton]

I have approx 100k GBP to last me the rest of my life...

In your position I would go for safety. Starting a new business is more risky than sticking your money on the FTSE. At least with the FTSE you've got a 50% chance of winning - it's only goes up or down.

Safer than starting a new business is buying a franchise. OK, it's still a new business but new franchises have a lower failure rate.

Have you considered buying an existing business? If you find one in a field you know / understand you'll be buying into steady revenue streams with the option of using your skills to grow sales and profits. You could look at businesses listed for sale in the region of £150K and count on negotiating the price down + getting some element of seller financing to reduce immediate cash input below £100K. For a £150K business you could aim for a "return" of £50K-£100K p.a. in a mix of salary and profit.

And there's a lower chance of failure. (Do use proper professionals - accountants / solicitors etc. - to advise on the deal!)

 

[MBE1]

If you really want to go into this business use a decent system, take a look at what BG can offer https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/

or

terraclean http://www.terraclean.co.uk/