Effect of HTTPS on ranking and visitors

[Justin Smith]

My site (aerialsandtv.com) was only HTTP up to early March and we`d been suffering a fall off in visits, so when I found out Google were down ranking non HTTP sites I obviously updated mine. However, if anything we`re getting fewer visitors since then and our ranking appears to have dropped !
I did notice whilst the site was being trawled by Google (it`s a big site) over the next week or so many pages weren`t on the Google Cache. They have now reappeared, but is that anything to do with it and should our ranking get back to what it was now ?
Is it the case that becoming HTTPS must improve our ranking and indeed our visitor numbers because Chrome reports HTTP sites as "insecure".

There are quite a few big sites (e.g. Digital UK) which are actually still HTTP ! Does being HTTPS have any disadvantages ?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

You have effectively moved your site to another address and the effects are not instant. Since it was a recent switch I wouldn't worry about it although it's always having a look at google search console to see if there are any warnings or outstanding issues.

 

[StephenSumner]

There is more to just switching over to HTTPs with your hosting co, the checklist involves quite a few important steps if SEO is of importance. Have you updated Google Search Console being one example? have you set-up redirects etc. etc

 

[fisicx]

I suspect the problem is truly awful site. Google has re-indexed everything seen how bad it is (including not being mobile friendly) and decided you no longer deserve to rank as well as you had.

 

[justinaldridge]

Wow, that's an old site you have there...and you are using a Serif product to create the site. That's how I built my first website 20 years ago

HTTPS helps a little but the fact that your site is not responsive is probably the main reason it's losing positions.

You say it's a large site but Google has only indexed about 170 pages:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:aerialsandtv.com&hl=en&gl=gb

However, the main issue you have with your changeover to HTTPS is that you are using a 302 redirect and not a 301 to go from http to https. A 302 is a temporary redirect and does not pass any ranking benefit across.

You need to change ALL the redirects to 301 to recover your rankings.

You can test the redirects here and see the header response:

https://www.webconfs.com/http-header-check.php

Just put in the http URL and you'll see it's a 302 redirect. It needs to return a 301.

 

[Justin Smith]

I suspect the problem is truly awful site. Google has re-indexed everything seen how bad it is (including not being mobile friendly) and decided you no longer deserve to rank as well as you had.

People keep telling me that the most important factor by far for ranking is content. If that`s true we should still be near the top.
I agree the fact it`s not Mobile friendly by Google`s definition is a problem, but that`s a big job to sort out, defn medium term. Interestingly, the site is perfectly viewable on a smart phone in landscape mode, I`ve often wondered if Google have a simple yes/no answer for if a site`s mobile friendly or a ranking.

As regards my "awful site", ever since I first published almost all of its visitors love it (and tell us that all the time), but website designers don`t like it and never have. Perhaps there`s a lesson there somewhere.....

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Wow, that's an old site you have there...and you are using a Serif product to create the site. That's how I built my first website 20 years ago

HTTPS helps a little but the fact that your site is not responsive is probably the main reason it's losing positions.

You say it's a large site but Google has only indexed about 170 pages:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:aerialsandtv.com&hl=en&gl=gb

However, the main issue you have with your changeover to HTTPS is that you are using a 302 redirect and not a 301 to go from http to https. A 302 is a temporary redirect and does not pass any ranking benefit across.

You need to change ALL the redirects to 301 to recover your rankings.

You can test the redirects here and see the header response:

https://www.webconfs.com/http-header-check.php

Just put in the http URL and you'll see it's a 302 redirect. It needs to return a 301.

It's a 307 actually, because he has hsts

From a site you've mentioned above as credible:
https://www.screamingfrog.co.uk/an-seos-guide-to-crawling-hsts/

HTTP Strict Transport Security (HSTS) is a standard, defined in RFC 6797, by which a web server can declare to a client that it should only be accessed via HTTPS.

The client, typically a web server or crawler, will then make all future requests over HTTPS, even if following a link to an HTTP URL. When this happens the SEO Spider, as of version 8.0, it shows a Status Code of 307, a Status of “HSTS Policy” and Redirect Type of “HSTS Policy”.

 

[justinaldridge]

I`ve often wondered if Google have a simple yes/no answer for if a site`s mobile friendly or a ranking

I recently made one of my old sites responsive as it was losing rankings. It has made a positive difference in rankings. Sites need to be responsive in portrait view.

Mobile responsiveness and friendliness started as small factors but they are getting stronger all the time. As is page load speed.

However, if by far the most relevant result for a search query is still an unresponsive page, Google will rank it. Relevancy still outweighs most other factors...but user experience is catching up. Google doesn't want to serve up unresponsive, insecure pages unless it absolutely has to.

Apply the 301 redirect fix I mentioned above and start looking towards moving the site into a modern and responsive template. It will make a difference.

 

[justinaldridge]

It's a 307 actually, because he has hsts

That's the internal redirect. He has site-wide 302 which is processed first going from http to https.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

That's the internal redirect. He has site-wide 302 which is processed first going from http to https.

I'm getting a 307 but maybe Justin can tell us what it is?

 

[justinaldridge]

HSTS is used to make the browser use the https version and the corresponding 307 redirect happens at browser level. The 301/302 redirect happens at server level and is the one that is applied first and seen by search engines.

This is a good tool too to check status codes:

https://httpstatus.io/

 

[Darren_Ssc]

HSTS is used to make the browser use the https version and the corresponding 307 redirect happens at browser level. The 301/302 redirect happens at server level and is the one that is applied first and seen by search engines.

This is a good tool too to check status codes:

https://httpstatus.io/

Justin knows what he's done, let's wait and see what he says?

 

[Justin Smith]

TBH I never pretend to anyone I know much about IT, and I`ve no idea what a 301, 302 or 307 redirect even is...... I got the helpful chap who first helped me set up the site about 14 years ago to make it HTTPS. All I know is if I go on some of the many sites which have links onto mine (as HTTP) and see if the work, they do. They go straight to the HTTPS site. Surely that`s what counts ?

I agree there are loads of factors in SEO but surely Google`s job is to present to the enquirer the site which has the most relevant / useful / interesting information, under that criteria Google should continue to rank us pretty highly for any search terms about aerials / poles / brackets etc etc. If they don`t that`s proof right there that content isn`t as important as it was, or should be.

 

[Inva]

Just because people like your page it does not mean you can't improve it. The question is, would they like this one better or a more modern one? Or an even better question, can a better website help you sell more? One issue i noticed immediately is that there is no clear navigation, i was a bit overwhelmed by the amount of links and was not sure what to look at or where to click.

 

[Justin Smith]

Just because people like your page it does not mean you can't improve it. The question is, would they like this one better or a more modern one? Or an even better question, can a better website help you sell more? One issue i noticed immediately is that there is no clear navigation, i was a bit overwhelmed by the amount of links and was not sure what to look at or where to click.

I would agree with that 100%. The medium term plan is to migrate it over to Wordpress. But that`s a huge job, according to Xenu there are over 2000 links on it......
As far as the site goes I personally like simple sites, I don`t like drop down menus and all that, I actually find them less easy to use, though I accept they might look better..

 

[justinaldridge]

I agree there are loads of factors in SEO but surely Google`s job is to present to the enquirer the site which has the most relevant / useful / interesting information

Google is under no obligation to rank your website. It's completely in your hands to provide a website in the format that they require it to be in to rank it. Google's organic search service is free, it's up to you to do what they demand.

There are basic standards, such as redirects, which ALL search engines abide by. You must always apply basic principles at the very least.

Saying that you don't understand redirects is surprising considering how many years you've had the site. You must learn about this.

I have to understand ALL elements of my business to run it effectively. It's no different with a website.

You have applied a temporary redirect to your site...it needs to be permanent. It's not responsive...it needs to be. The user experience is poor...it needs improving.

We are trying to help you...don't resist

 

[Justin Smith]

Google is under no obligation to rank your website. It's completely in your hands to provide a website in the format that they require it to be in to rank it. Google's organic search service is free, it's up to you to do what they demand.

There are basic standards, such as redirects, which ALL search engines abide by. You must always apply basic principles at the very least.

Saying that you don't understand redirects is surprising considering how many years you've had the site. You must learn about this.

I have to understand ALL elements of my business to run it effectively. It's no different with a website.

You have applied a temporary redirect to your site...it needs to be permanent. It's not responsive...it needs to be. The user experience is poor...it needs improving.

We are trying to help you...don't resist

I`m not resisting, nor suggesting that Google owes me anything ! I`m simply pointing out that if anyone needs to find out anything about aerial installations there is no better site !
As mentioned above I have a medium term plan to transfer the site onto Wordpress which I believe is responsive ?

 

[justinaldridge]

There may be no better site but that's not how Google sees is, which is why you only have 200 pages indexed.

I would look to transition it across sooner rather than later. I think you may be quite surprised the impact it will have on your rankings and traffic when it's all on a new, mobile friendly and responsive website.

 

[Justin Smith]

I suspect the hardest part will be deciding what to keep in.....
Incidentally, how does Wordpress rearrange stuff to fit into a narrower frame ? How does it know where to put stuff so the text stays next to the relevant picture etc ?
As I do maintenance on my site I`m trying to make the picture smaller so as to ease my problems when it comes to going Wordpress, what size should I be aiming to make them ?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Start with the pages that are already indexed, just do a couple of pages and see how it looks - then worry about getting everything correct and perfect.

A lot of hosts will be able to provide you with a staging site, which is basically a blank site you can mess around with and nobody will see it but you. In the meantime, your current site will stay live as it is.

The bad news is that you'll probably need much bigger images than you have now (aligned centre rather than to the right) - but one bridge at a time...

I actually missed the first part of your question where you say rankings were already dropping before you switched. Solely moving to https is never going to turn that trend around.

 

[Inva]

Make sure you know what you're doing by switching to WordPress. Personally I can never agree to move a custom website to WP. You'll get hit with a reality check.

 

[menetworkjadaltd]

People keep telling me that the most important factor by far for ranking is content.

I think people keep telling you that the site needs to be better.

If that`s true we should still be near the top.

And its not, so you won't be

I agree the fact it`s not Mobile friendly by Google`s definition is a problem, but that`s a big job to sort out, defn medium term.

It's a big job, it depends how much your site's ranking means to your business.

Interestingly, the site is perfectly viewable on a smart phone in landscape mode, I`ve often wondered if Google have a simple yes/no answer for if a site`s mobile friendly or a ranking.

Yes it does... Does it work in portrait?!

 

[Anthony Daly]

I suspect the hardest part will be deciding what to keep in.....
Incidentally, how does Wordpress rearrange stuff to fit into a narrower frame ? How does it know where to put stuff so the text stays next to the relevant picture etc ?
As I do maintenance on my site I`m trying to make the picture smaller so as to ease my problems when it comes to going Wordpress, what size should I be aiming to make them ?

Responsive web design uses @media queries to resize content to adjust to a smaller device width. Make sure you actually access your new site from a mobile device to preview how it looks. The media queries determine how things look scaled-down, normally columns wrap underneath one another.

My best advice would be to organise your content over even more pages than it currently has. The reason is that it is very difficult to read from a wall of text. Spread things out with space between them is a good basic tip for website design. Read up on Bootstrap and how you can use a three-column layout etc.

SEO-wise, breaking up the content more will help, and stick to https.

 

[fisicx]

Don’t use bootstrap and don’t use columns.

We view content differently these days and bootstrap is now very dated.

 

[WhizzPeople]

You need a website overhaul - it is truly out-of-date. You can't just fix one or two things about the site.

 

[Justin Smith]

My site (aerialsandtv.com) was only HTTP up to early March and we`d been suffering a fall off in visits, so when I found out Google were down ranking non HTTP sites I obviously updated mine. However, if anything we`re getting fewer visitors since then and our ranking appears to have dropped !
I did notice whilst the site was being trawled by Google (it`s a big site) over the next week or so many pages weren`t on the Google Cache. They have now reappeared, but is that anything to do with it and should our ranking get back to what it was now ?
Is it the case that becoming HTTPS must improve our ranking and indeed our visitor numbers because Chrome reports HTTP sites as "insecure".

There are quite a few big sites (e.g. Digital UK) which are actually still HTTP ! Does being HTTPS have any disadvantages ?

Now I`ve had just over a month to gauge the effect of "upgrading" to HTTPS, it`s all very odd.
Hits were pretty consistent up to the week we went HTTPS, then they started dropping off immediately and the percentage of our traffic from search engines dropped off the most. It`s now stabilised but at a figure around 35% down on what is was when we were HTTP. It`s important to stress that nothing else about the website has changed, so how can "upgrading" to HTTPS, which Google are supposed to favour, result in s drop in search traffic and, one assumes, ranking ?

 

[justinaldridge]

But as I stated in my original post, you are using a 302 redirect. You need to use a 301. A 302 is a temporary redirect but does NOT pass ranking value across.

It is not surprising that you are losing traffic.

It's such a simple correction, I don't know why you don't do it. The more time that passes the worse it is going to get and the harder it will be to recover what you had. I can tell you that from painful experience!

 

[Justin Smith]

But as I stated in my original post, you are using a 302 redirect. You need to use a 301. A 302 is a temporary redirect but does NOT pass ranking value across.

It is not surprising that you are losing traffic.

It's such a simple correction, I don't know why you don't do it. The more time that passes the worse it is going to get and the harder it will be to recover what you had. I can tell you that from painful experience!

You did indeed advise me of that, thank you. I don`t actually host the site, the chap who heped me set up the website in the first place does, though I do have the Webplus programme on my PC to upload site alterations. Dose the hoster of my site have to set up the redirect or can I do it from here ?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

GET http://www.aerialsandtv.com
Status: HTTP/1.1 307 Internal Redirect

You have HSTS security set up incorrectly. This is a configuration your webhost ought to be able to fix for you.

However, the reason you are not seeing any great improvements has been pointed out already:

1) The effect of switching to https is minimal
2) Your site isn't mobile friendly and mobile first indexing is a thing - in other words, the bias towards sites that are mobile friendly is incredibly strong.

If you changed your website to work in the modern world and changed your attitude to 'offering advice to only paying customers' your site would be very successful.

 

[justinaldridge]

I'm assuming you have access to your hosting? Can you see the files on the host server? Is there a file called .htaccess?

 

[Justin Smith]

I'm assuming you have access to your hosting? Can you see the files on the host server? Is there a file called .htaccess?

Funnily enough my chap has just said he was going to sort it, but thanks a bunch for (re) pointing it out.

 

[Justin Smith]

GET http://www.aerialsandtv.com
Status: HTTP/1.1 307 Internal Redirect

You have HSTS security set up incorrectly. This is a configuration your webhost ought to be able to fix for you.

However, the reason you are not seeing any great improvements has been pointed out already:

1) The effect of switching to https is minimal
2) Your site isn't mobile friendly and mobile first indexing is a thing - in other words, the bias towards sites that are mobile friendly is incredibly strong.

If you changed your website to work in the modern world and changed your attitude to 'offering advice to only paying customers' your site would be very successful.

I was unsure how much improvement I`d see but I never expected to see a drop off !
Actually I did expect to see an improvement because in Chrome people were getting a message "this site is insecure" or something like that, which is bound to put a lot of people off staying on the site, even more off actually buying from it.
As to your other points I agree that I`ll have to move it to Wordpress which I believe is mobile compatible, but it`ll be a HUGE job....... To be fair the chap who helps me with the site has been advising me to do that for a year or two.
I don`t think saying we only offer personal phone advice to customers actually buying something is unreasonable at all. More and more sites / companies these days don`t even offer a phone number (certainly one staffed by people who actually know anything) for paying customers, so we`re already way up on customer service with that one. But the bottom line is the site is so extensive that the answer to any (and I really do mean any) aerial question is on there anyway, for free, to anyone, which is why the site still gets a reasonable number of hits and used to get a huge number, as recently as 2017 it was getting around a million page hits a year.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

I agree the site has extensive info, which is why it could do so much better if it was more accessible.

You could create a wordpress site within a hidden folder or via your hosting account and just do one or two pages a day. A slow way to do it but better than waiting?

Regards to giving free advice - I think you are missing a trick there, but it's your business at the end of the day.

 

[Justin Smith]

I agree the site has extensive info, which is why it could do so much better if it was more accessible.

You could create a wordpress site within a hidden folder or via your hosting account and just do one or two pages a day. A slow way to do it but better than waiting?

Regards to giving free advice - I think you are missing a trick there, but it's your business at the end of the day.

I think the first thing I`m going to do is go through the site culling stuff which I think is spurious, including links, of which there are a huge number. I have speculated if I`ll have to name all the links on the Wordpress site exactly the same so inbound links will still work. Am I right ?

I can remember one customer, who insisted he was going to buy all the stuff from us so could I just go through his whole system and tell him exactly what he needed. I was on the phone to him for about half an hour, literally. He never actually bought anything. We really don`t want to encourage those kind of people, but, TBH we`ve never had large numbers of people phoning us for free advice, even when we were getting one to two thousand visitors a day on the site.

 

[fisicx]

As to your other points I agree that I`ll have to move it to Wordpress which I believe is mobile compatible

Wordpress isn't compatible with anything. It's the theme you choose that makes it so.

...but it`ll be a HUGE job.

Not really. There are loads of ways to import all your current content into WordPress. Once the script has been prepared the transfer shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

 

[Justin Smith]

Wordpress isn't compatible with anything. It's the theme you choose that makes it so.

Not really. There are loads of ways to import all your current content into WordPress. Once the script has been prepared the transfer shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

How will Wordpress know what all the links and anchors are if they`re from another programme ?

If the pages all have to be narrower and the text bigger doesn`t that then mean I`ll have to split most of the pages ? Just that will be a big job. Many of the images etc can`t really be just shrunk down because they`ll then look crap when viewed on a larger screen, does Wordpress automatically shrink them down to fit the devise width using it ? If it does I can keep them at full size ?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

all the links on the Wordpress site exactly the same so inbound links will still work. Am I right ?

The page URLs on wordpress are without an extension such as .html by default. You will have to change the permalinks settings to match this which will work for most of your pages.

You can actually just append .html to the new link structure in the settings to make it easy.

Regretfully, this is a bit of an oversimplification since there is a limit to how much info I can give you in a forum post. You'll have to do a bit of reading on this yourself.

The important thing is you get the actual content onto a site that isn't publicly viewable and you can test/play about with. Sorting out the url format before you go live is a trivial issue really.

I can remember one customer, who insisted he was going to buy all the stuff from us so could I just go through his whole system and tell him exactly what he needed. I was on the phone to him for about half an hour, literally. He never actually bought anything. We really don`t want to encourage those kind of people, but, TBH we`ve never had large numbers of people phoning us for free advice, even when we were getting one to two thousand visitors a day on the site.

I was thinking more of having Q&As on your site rather than taking phone calls - I can see why you wouldn't want to do that.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Not really. There are loads of ways to import all your current content into WordPress. Once the script has been prepared the transfer shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

I'd advise against this approach unless the pages are pure text. I hope anyone who says otherwise is willing to offer their time to sort out the mess that will ensue otherwise?

 

[justinaldridge]

There is no easy way of doing this, particularly with how the website is currently set up.

It's going to take a long time, a lot of effort and a lot of manual input or intervention.

But it needs doing, even if it's a year long project!

 

[fisicx]

I'd advise against this approach unless the pages are pure text.

All you are doing it taking one DB table and converting it to a new DB table. It’s not a complicated thing to do, just time consuming to write the script that does the conversion.