EBay is Not the way to go

[Pete Roberts BA]

Hello - I produced a pack of cards similar to tarot and sold them on EBay for a number of years. The cost to me to produce them was £1.60 per pack. It cost £1.63 (one first and one second class) to post them, so far £3.23. I then put them on EBay at £4.95 per set. Now here is the reason for this post. On your article ‘Side Hustles‘ it says consider EBay as they charge a small commission, well I consider the charge they made to me was anything but small.
EBay charged me 98p on a sale of £4.95. (I‘m an individual not a business).
So my total costs are £4.21 leaving a profit of 74p per set. I’m not arguing with that at all, I enjoy my walk to the post box (average one a week sale) but I do think that EBay charge a great deal more than a ‘Small Commission’.
NB. I stopped using EBay recently after three people within a month said they had not received their packages, I had to resend them. Postal strike or just got lost? I’ve never had to resend cards before. Am I being pedantic or is this the real world now! Cheers, Peter

 

[DontAsk]

If you are selling regularly it is a business.

Parcel getting lost is nothing to do with eBay.

 

[thetiger2015]

98p per sale? Is that cheaper than marketing the product yourself? Or does eBay give you a route to market, with lower margins but almost guaranteed sales?

Selling on any 3rd party website is going to cost you a certain percentage of any profit, Amazon, eBay, doesn't matter, they all charge a fee plus commission on sales.

Missing parcels? Using couriers, we lost 7 out of our last 100 packages. Lost, gone, stolen, don't know. EBay don't send parcels though, so you can't level any complaint at them for missing items. That's RM or Evri or someone else's issue to deal with.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I'm really not sure where you are coming from with this.

Ebay is a selling platform which works well for some but not for others. That's business research

Have you found a more effective platform to recommend?

In what way do you feel ebay are responsible for lost items?

If you are making/buying something to sell for a profit, how is that not a business?

 

[japancool]

EBay charged me 98p on a sale of £4.95.

That sounds like both the Paypal and eBay commission fee. eBay's final value fee is usually around 10-13%.

stopped using EBay recently after three people within a month said they had not received their packages, I had to resend them. Postal strike or just got lost? I’ve never had to resend cards before.

Given that you sent them out by Royal Mail, I'm not sure how that's ebay's fault?

 

[Pete Roberts BA]

If you are selling regularly it is a business.

Parcel getting lost is nothing to do with eBay.

 

[Pete Roberts BA]

It’s a hobby that’s why I’m almost selling at a loss.

 

[Pete Roberts BA]

I'm really not sure where you are coming from with this.

Ebay is a selling platform which works well for some but not for others. That's business research

Have you found a more effective platform to recommend?

In what way do you feel ebay are responsible for lost items?

If you are making/buying something to sell for a profit, how is that not a business?

It’s a hobby that is why I’m selling so cheap. Not blaming EBay for losses they just make it so easy to say items have not arrived. One customer (after I sent a replacement) said his package came the day after he complained. So I gave up, I’ve got 1,920 sets to go, any ideas?

 

[MBE2017]

It’s a hobby that is why I’m selling so cheap. Not blaming EBay for losses they just make it so easy to say items have not arrived. One customer (after I sent a replacement) said his package came the day after he complained. So I gave up, I’ve got 1,920 sets to go, any ideas?

This advice might not apply to yourself since you consider it a hobby, but clients complaining about orders going missing etc is part of dealing with online sales, it happens whatever way you sell.

When I used to sell on eBay, I only offered recorded delivery as an option, to stop most of the item not received guys, and increased the price to allow for the extra cost incurred.

Apart from that, increase your price anyway, you will almost certainly sell more because you do, return to your listing and work on it, better pictures, better written copy, most importantly better titles.

When it comes to price, there are certain price points you can go to, it is not about adding £1 or a set percentage. On your costs I would be looking at £9.99, £14.99, £19.99, £24.99, £49.99 or even £99.99.

The problem you have now is you have sold them at near cost, devaluing them. It could work out better to remove them for a couple of months, and start a new user name, with a better selling price.

 

[MBE2017]

Quick correction, re the above post, I used to offer NOTHING but recorded delivery, the client had no option. I accepted the odd order would be lost due to the slightly higher price, but my time was worth a lot more, it cut out 99% of the “failed” deliveries.

 

[DoolallyTap]

I sell low value items on eBay and I am quite convinced that many buyers receive their order then open a claim and always get a refund. The only way around this is tracked delivery which obviously costs more.
Pete said - I’ve got 1,920 sets to go, any ideas? in stock, that's over £3000, selling 1 a week, 36 years to dispose of the stock. I wonder how many you started with? and when did the first sale occur?
If you don't sell on eBay, where else can you sell the cards? Any other route will need more capital with no guarantee of success. Really, the question is what do you want to do?
Continue selling, dispose of the stock, get some of the capital back, just burn them, whatever?

 

[MBE2017]

The other option Pete Roberts, and don’t dismiss this idea out of hand, is to throw them in the bin.

If you are only selling 1-2 per week at best, and not making any money either, throwing then away frees up the next decade or two to spend your time doing something useful.

I used to sell 30,000 items per year, and only worked 2-3 hrs a day maximum, but that gave myself a living. It would appear not enough people like your design, you already have a couple of years wasted on this, why waste any more time? Life is short.

I used to sell £165 hatstands as one item in my inventory, if I didn’t sell at least four per week I would be angry at myself. That item alone made myself £500 per week, profit, after delivery which cost another £35 to the client and that was over a decade ago.

Anyway, best of luck whatever you decide to do.

 

[DoolallyTap]

30000 items per year

I used to sell 30,000 items per year, and only worked 2-3 hrs a day maximum, but that gave myself a living. It would appear not enough people like your design, you already have a couple of years wasted on this, why waste any more time? Life is short.

I used to sell £165 hatstands as one item in my inventory, if I didn’t sell at least four per week I would be angry at myself. That item alone made myself £500 per week, profit, after delivery which cost another £35 to the client and that was over a decade ago.

Anyway, best of luck whatever you decide to do.

If you had a big warehouse and plenty of staff picking, packing, processing 30000 items per year, nearly 600 per day, 2-3 hours, who are you kidding.
If hatstands were that good why are you not still selling them?

 

[m4hmo]

30000 items per year

If you had a big warehouse and plenty of staff picking, packing, processing 30000 items per year, nearly 600 per day, 2-3 hours, who are you kidding.
If hatstands were that good why are you not still selling them?

I used to sell on eBay a fair bit as well back in the day. Peaked at a turnover of £850 a day. Reason i stopped around 2006 is our suppliers themselves came onto eBay themselves selling at trade price plus postage to the public. I sold car accessories, designer perfumes and radio controlled toys. The perfumes on eBay are real from the big sellers. They are old companies like per scent or knights perfumes/fragrances or star perfumes/fragrances.

Plenty of clueless people like to ask "why are you not still selling?" Because it's not the same and the number of products/sellers exploded, suppliers came onto eBay themselves when retail chain stores began going direct to China instead of UK wholesalers.

 

[paulears]

The thing is about working out who your customers are and what their circumstances are. Why are you selling at 4.99? How did you pick the price point? My view of prices is formed by my grandkids. Can I have a happy Meal Grandad? - and seeing McDonalds heaving with people. If I wanted your cards, and saw 9.99 - I'd relate it to money wasted on the burger at McDonalds. If you get ordinary post lost, then either factor it in - as in how many lost or misdelivered packages you get, and the difference if you sent it signed for, which is not hugely secure - but prevents people just saying I didn't get them to a degree. On my electronics sales, fees are between 15-20% which is high based on the value and I probably make about 20% in terms of margin in total, after the fees, postage etc. I thought 20% was a bit feeble, but my accountant pointed out that was better than the savings rate, so while not mega lucrative, it's still worth doing.

 

[Pete Roberts BA]

My goodness, there is a lot of quality information/suggestions in the replies. As I developed TELLiT Cards as something to do after I retired it became an all consuming project. I designed the cards as an alternative to Tarot that I thought had far too dark meanings and you needed someone to interpret the cards.
With TELLiT Cards you do it yourself and with many many combinations of what the cards tell you they are unique.
I even registered tellitcards.com (I still have it) for an on-line business but did not develop this angle.
If anyone would like a set of the cards please send your address and I will send you a pack free gratis.
Kind Regards, Peter

 

[MBE2017]

30000 items per year

If you had a big warehouse and plenty of staff picking, packing, processing 30000 items per year, nearly 600 per day, 2-3 hours, who are you kidding.
If hatstands were that good why are you not still selling them?

Times change, as do fashions. When I was selling eBay started changing listing rules etc. after approx 2 years after having started, I got fed up with cancelled listing, having to explain things to clients. A listing could be fine for a year and the next day several similar listings would simple be cancelled with no warning, no chance to argue, whilst another similar 50 would be allowed to continue.

As for who am I kidding, no one. I never said I worked alone, I had four members of staff packing part time, personally I only worked 2-3 hrs a day, since I was already doing another project. All the invoices, packing notes and addresses were printed overnight, plus more from my warehouse during the day. All the postage was done by my local post office, I simply dropped 4-8 sacks of mail off daily, they did the rest. The vast majority of my goods simply went into a self sealing envelope with a label on. It was easy to pack 100 items per hour per person.

The eBay side hustle was started for my wife to earn some pin money, but it grew very fast. Once eBay made it very hard to control the business I lost patience with them. Never been back, never regretted it. Time is the most important thing for anyone in business, you cannot make anymore of it.

 

[HFE Signs]

Maybe you need to increase your price a little to allow for eBay fees? It sounds a lot percentage wise but imagine a google ppc campaign! I terms of reach, it’s very cheap.

Regarding the postage problems, all mail order businesses suffer this from time to time, it’s nothing to do with eBay though

 

[DoolallyTap]

Tarot cards are less than £8 set on Amazon so achieving much more than £5-6 set has to be an impulse purchase. Either keep trying with eBay with very slow results, or just have a bonfire and move on.

 

[hg5guy]

Hello - I produced a pack of cards similar to tarot and sold them on EBay for a number of years. The cost to me to produce them was £1.60 per pack. It cost £1.63 (one first and one second class) to post them, so far £3.23. I then put them on EBay at £4.95 per set. Now here is the reason for this post. On your article ‘Side Hustles‘ it says consider EBay as they charge a small commission, well I consider the charge they made to me was anything but small. EBay charged me 98p on a sale of £4.95. (I‘m an individual not a business).

So 12.8% of £4.95 is is £0.63, plus there is a 30p fixed transaction fee. I'm assuming that the other 5p is tax or something, but to make it easy lets call the selling fee £0.93.

That would work out as 18.8% of your gross revenue.

Only, because that 30p is fixed it becomes cheaper the higher the price of the item. If you charged £5.95 for example then you'd pay 12.8% of £5.95 which is £0.76 + £0.30 so that's £1.06

At £5.95 it would work out at 17.8% of your gross revenue

At £6.95 it would work out at 17.0% of your gross revenue.

eBay did not tell you to sell your item at £4.95, you decided to sell your item at £4.95. You should be calculating your net margins when setting prices. What is stopping you from charging £4.95 + £1.63 shipping?

Alternatively, find somebody with a proper ecommerce business willing to sell/distribute them on your behalf on a sale or return basis where they do all the hard work, benefit from volume pricing (inc. on eBay fees as they have Featured or Anchor store subscriptions, but also with Royal Mail who give volume discounts). Work out your wholesale price on a sale or return basis.

You've invented something, doesn't mean you have to be the person who sells it, find somebody else to stock and flog it and move on to designing Product 2.

Do you want to be a product designer or a retailer? I can see you sold 300 packets of these cards on eBay which isn't bad going, tested your concept, proved it isn't a complete dead rubber.

What could a high volume seller achieve over multiple marketplaces with their economies of scale?

EDIT: The other 5p is of course the listing fee!

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

A couple of points (maybe repeated!).

• Think of the transaction charge as a marketing cost. If you didn't use the platform, you might not get any sales or they would be greatly reduced.
• Are you selling too cheap? Increase cost by a pound or two, sales reduce by 50% but profit is similar/better!
• Are you pointing people (for repeat/new orders) to your website?
• Are you selling on Amazon? Try selling direct and split FBA, to see the results.

 

[Mark T Jones]

It’s a hobby that is why I’m selling so cheap. Not blaming EBay for losses they just make it so easy to say items have not arrived. One customer (after I sent a replacement) said his package came the day after he complained. So I gave up, I’ve got 1,920 sets to go, any ideas?

This is the problem you have given yourself (I I suspect you now know)

You are neither charity nor business, but in no man's land in-between

EBay buyers won't respect your low prices/margins, they will treat you as another Ebay seller - and some will freely abuse the system.

Physical markets - eg mystic or just craft markets will be far more forgiving, and you will have the change to sell your passion and engagement. Of course, there will be up-front costs.

 

[Siobhan-DFH]

Have you considered selling wholesale to gift shops, book shops, and mystic shops? It would remove the problem of high postage costs for a small, low value item.
For example, if it cost £1.63 to produce them, and you could sell boxes of 20 at a time to stores for around £2.10 per unit + shipping, you'd at least get back what you paid and move the stock faster. Freeing you up to do something new. You'd need to price low enough to accommodate the store's 20% VAT. I don't know where you had them printed, but if in the UK, I'd also push the 'Designed & Made in GB' credentials.

I totally understand your point about Ebay allowing scammers to abuse the system and claim they didn't receive it. I used to sell products from a website via Royal Mail and experienced 1-2 'lost' orders per year. On Ebay it was around 30% of customers claiming 'undelivered'. Same packaging, same Royal Mail service. I only used Ebay to clear sale stock, but stopped using it for that reason.

 

[fantheflames]

I sell low value items on eBay and I am quite convinced that many buyers receive their order then open a claim and always get a refund. The only way around this is tracked delivery which obviously costs more.
Pete said - I’ve got 1,920 sets to go, any ideas? in stock, that's over £3000, selling 1 a week, 36 years to dispose of the stock. I wonder how many you started with? and when did the first sale occur?
If you don't sell on eBay, where else can you sell the cards? Any other route will need more capital with no guarantee of success. Really, the question is what do you want to do?
Continue selling, dispose of the stock, get some of the capital back, just burn them, whatever?

Totally. There are a small portion of customers that are playing the system. To OP, don't let that stop you from selling on eBay.

As others have said on this thread, you could opt for recorded delivery, which protects you from above situations.

From my experience on helping sellers on third party platforms, I find that products like yours would work much better on Etsy.

The fees are still quite high - listing fees and final fees - but I find that the customers on eBay are more targeted and most customers could make more for an item.

So the answer could be swapping eBay for Etsy, and putting your margin up, so at least you're not dealing with a loss... after all, it's a hobby, right?

 

[Pete Roberts BA]

Thank you FanTF - It is a hobby and one I enjoyed doing, taking the project from idea to fruition. I have considered Etsy but have limited computer skills and it seems daunting to set up, but thanks for the suggestion, I will look into it as I still have a lot to dispose of. The old saying ‘mouse trap and door’ really is not true especially in this day and age.
Best Wishes, Peter

 

[Pete Roberts BA]

Have you considered selling wholesale to gift shops, book shops, and mystic shops? It would remove the problem of high postage costs for a small, low value item.
For example, if it cost £1.63 to produce them, and you could sell boxes of 20 at a time to stores for around £2.10 per unit + shipping, you'd at least get back what you paid and move the stock faster. Freeing you up to do something new. You'd need to price low enough to accommodate the store's 20% VAT. I don't know where you had them printed, but if in the UK, I'd also push the 'Designed & Made in GB' credentials.

I totally understand your point about Ebay allowing scammers to abuse the system and claim they didn't receive it. I used to sell products from a website via Royal Mail and experienced 1-2 'lost' orders per year. On Ebay it was around 30% of customers claiming 'undelivered'. Same packaging, same Royal Mail service. I only used Ebay to clear sale stock, but stopped using it for that reason.

Hello Siobhan, I did sell a few sets through a local mystic shop that sold all sorts of weird stuff but it closed down last month, such a shame that we are losing outlets at such a pace. I have considered a lot of alternatives but come up with the same solution, put them in the bin! I did enjoy the research and producing the cards, getting them printed in India, falling fowl of import duty (that I did not factor in) and selling about 60 sets overall. All my friends and family have a pack so not totally waisted. Best Wishes, Peter

 

[japancool]

The problem with this product is that you're selling the system, not the physical product.

People aren't going to search on ebay for these cards unless they've already heard of them. You need to publicise and market the system. Go to craft fairs and the like, set up a stall and do readings, build a social media following and sell them there. ebay is just not the right outlet for this.

 

[PaulaS]

Hello - I produced a pack of cards similar to tarot and sold them on EBay for a number of years. The cost to me to produce them was £1.60 per pack. It cost £1.63 (one first and one second class) to post them, so far £3.23. I then put them on EBay at £4.95 per set. Now here is the reason for this post. On your article ‘Side Hustles‘ it says consider EBay as they charge a small commission, well I consider the charge they made to me was anything but small.
EBay charged me 98p on a sale of £4.95. (I‘m an individual not a business).
So my total costs are £4.21 leaving a profit of 74p per set. I’m not arguing with that at all, I enjoy my walk to the post box (average one a week sale) but I do think that EBay charge a great deal more than a ‘Small Commission’.
NB. I stopped using EBay recently after three people within a month said they had not received their packages, I had to resend them. Postal strike or just got lost? I’ve never had to resend cards before. Am I being pedantic or is this the real world now! Cheers, Peter

If the items are getting lost in the post, can you claim compensation from the Post Office?

 

[FrontierMan]

Ebay policy is, if you 'make to sell' or 'buy to sell' you need a business account, you're being charged 12.8% plus 30p per transaction(depending on category)as a private seller,
Personally, I think you should be charging £9.99 per set
Have you tried selling on dedicated websites for this type of cards , such as Facebook groups,

 

[chickenlady]

There are no 'hobby' businesses in the UK as there are in the US and it may be better for you to register on ebay as a business which you are if you are buying/making to sell - you don't need a shop. I say that because businesses selling low cost items can look at a lower rate for sales of under about £5 of 15%+5p per transaction (plus VAT) which works out as a slightly lower charge. Buying your postage on ebay (even Royal Mail large letters) should give a scan on delivery so you really should not be being stung for non-deliveries - I've had 7500 sales in the year prior to the pandemic and since and I have had barely any item not received claims - almost everything I send goes RM 2nd class large letter. Don't use stamps as they advertise that you are not getting proof of delivery. During the strikes there were many delays but otherwise, RM has a pretty decent delivery rate. You can have more than one ebay account to keep your personal and your business bits separate. Now it is Managed Payments, you don't have to factor in Paypal charges.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Send a few packs to magazine editors with a well drafted piece of advertorial copy.
Fate & Fortune
Psychic News
Spirituality & Health
Soul & Spirit
etc., etc.,

 

[ArabianNights]

1. Ignore the snidey assumptive remarks here
2. You are selling way too cheap
3. Always use a form of recorded delivery, even if it’s just second class signed for -
It comes with a low compensation, I think £20 from Royal Mail if it gets lost in the post. It’s a nice back up to recover your costs it if does get lost - hell, can even be profitable, when and if it seems get lost
4. Do everything you can to keep eBay happy. Use the second class signed reference number and upload this tracking number to eBay sales. Then it’s out of your hands. EBay will have no choice but to have any claims from the customer in your favour as you did your part.
5. But Royal Mail post online and then drop off at post office. It’s cheaper.

Stay positive and good luck!!

 

[MBE2017]

4. Do everything you can to keep eBay happy. Use the second class signed reference number and upload this tracking number to eBay sales. Then it’s out of your hands. EBay will have no choice but to have any claims from the customer in your favour as you did your part.

Sending recorded delivery changes nothing from a POD point of view. If your deliveries are lost, gone missing, stolen or whatever, the sender will still lose.

What recorded delivery will do is cut down on the people claiming non receipt, but you still need to prove delivery.

 

[ArabianNights]

Sending recorded delivery changes nothing from a POD point of view. If your deliveries are lost, gone missing, stolen or whatever, the sender will still lose.

What recorded delivery will do is cut down on the people claiming non receipt, but you still need to prove delivery.

Incorrect.

Sending items by second class signed for attracts the need for a signature on delivery and also has a compensation up to £20, as long as the item sent it not a restricted goods. This provides more secure postage service than sending it without the need for a signature. If it costs someone £5 to produce a product, sell and send it, and it’s lost, they can claim compensations up to £20 for the item. Talking from experience. Sometimes a lost item has proven to be profitable, through compensation - if all costs have amounted to less than £20 to producing, sending and selling the product.

 

[ArabianNights]

Sending recorded delivery changes nothing from a POD point of view. If your deliveries are lost, gone missing, stolen or whatever, the sender will still lose.

What recorded delivery will do is cut down on the people claiming non receipt, but you still need to prove delivery.

Royal Mail also posts the signature of the person receiving the item, on their tracking. We have used this many times as evidence of delivery on eBay claims by buyers.

 

[japancool]

Sending items by second class signed for attracts the need for a signature on delivery and also has a compensation up to £20

Have you ever tried claiming compensation from RM?

 

[ArabianNights]

Have you ever tried claiming compensation from RM?

Yes, I have. Several times from eBay sales actually. I have received compensation cheques in the post from them.

And what’s your point exactly?

Oh let me guess - you assumed that because it’s such a hassle to deal with them, so you should just let it slide … leaving the seller to a disadvantage and that in the short of the long - just give up?

It’s not hard. Fill out a form and evidences of purchase and voila - guess what? They’ll process and refund you the postage costs plus compensation.

 

[MBE2017]

4. Do everything you can to keep eBay happy. Use the second class signed reference number and upload this tracking number to eBay sales. Then it’s out of your hands. EBay will have no choice but to have any claims from the customer in your favour as you did your part.

This is the bit I commented on.

Whether you send it on the back of a snail or recorded delivery, your responsibility does not end until the order is successfully delivered. So it is not out of your hands by simply using RD, you have to still ensure delivery as well.

 

[ArabianNights]

This is the bit I commented on.

Whether you send it on the back of a snail or recorded delivery, your responsibility does not end until the order is successfully delivered. So it is not out of your hands by simply using RD, you have to still ensure delivery as well.

You seem to be nitpicking here. Out of your hands, means that the parcel has been given to Royal Mail. Royal Mails job is to deliver the item. If they don’t, then they have to pay you compensation, if you used a postage service that allows for compensation. This is why its ‘out of your hands’. If Royal Mail get a signature from the the person signing for the parcel, then that’s all the evidence ebay needs, regardless of what the buyer says.

No need to pick fights for no reason at all. I know it’s a typical British trait to moan at everything. Go have a cuppa and chill out.

 

[japancool]

And what’s your point exactly?

Oh let me guess - you assumed that because it’s such a hassle to deal with them, so you should just let it slide … leaving the seller to a disadvantage and that in the short of the long - just give up?

You just pointed out the EXACT reason why claiming compensation from Royal Mail is NOT a reason to use them. £20 compensation is great if you sell tat, but not if you have to spend an hour doing it.

So I wouldn't be touting that as an advantage. Plenty of companies offer the same, and it's easier to claim.

Assume away.