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E-commerce site wanted >>

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Hedgie

Hedgie

Free Member
Aug 17, 2007
2,305
305
Planet Mars
OK this is what I need.

An 'off the shelf' ecommerce site that -

1) is customisable in terms of layout and colours.
2) allows a choice of payment gateways
3) is not OSC, Zencart, Cube cart based.
4) can be set up quickly and managed online.
5) can be paid for monthly at no more than £50 per month.
6) can handle 5000 products.
7) is uk based.

Any suggestions please.

Oh...and can be administered by a complete muppet .....ME :)
 
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Hi Hedgehog Toys,

I would recommend http://www.openmindcommerce.co.uk/

1) Yes, with a freelance designer
2) Yep - Protx VSPDirect, Protx VSPForm, WorldPay Select Junior, Secure Trading Payment Pages, SecureTrading XPay, Google Checkout, PayPal Standard, Cheque, BACS and Purchase Order Payments
3) It's not
4) Yes
5) Yep, £35/month
6) I think so
7) Yes

Thanks,
Greg
 
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Magento does all of that and is free. You might need to hire a designer though as the skinning seems rather convoluted. Granted I am about as artistic as a rock but it seemed that way to me.
 
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groovycart.co.uk

1) Yes
2) PayPal, PayPal Pro, Google Checkout, Cheque
3) Yes, its not one of them
4) Yes
5) Yes £20 a month
6) 1000
7) Yes
 
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Greg Findley said:
I would check if Magento is suitable for the UK market as I know the last time I checked there were various issues with the system handling VAT issues, may well be resolved now, try the UK forum on the Magento site.
Click to expand...

Ah, luckily I am not VAT registered so I am not in a position to comment. The developers do seem proactive though.
 
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Thanks guys.

1) Openmind. Great package but struggled to change the design, upload logs etc. (Phil???)
2) Groovycart. Not sure of the 'similar' look to all of the example sites.

Keep em coming :)
 
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Cromulent said:
Ah, luckily I am not VAT registered so I am not in a position to comment. The developers do seem proactive though.
Click to expand...

Ahh fair enough, and yes they have a strong community following now :)

Hedgehog Toys said:
Thanks guys.

1) Openmind. Great package but struggled to change the design, upload logs etc. (Phil???)
Click to expand...

That's where you bring in a designer to help you design around the OMC layout/setup, it's surprising how custom you can make it look with some clever design and CSS :)
 
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Greg Findley said:
That's where you bring in a designer to help you design around the OMC layout/setup, it's surprising how custom you can make it look with some clever design and CSS :)
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It's not so much how I want the site to look, more of a case of having a logo and trying to figure out how I get it uploaded as it's not obvious.
A lot of the off the shelf packages tend to be very easy to upload logos etc despite the minimal customisation options.
 
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Hedgehog Toys said:
It's not so much how I want the site to look, more of a case of having a logo and trying to figure out how I get it uploaded as it's not obvious.
A lot of the off the shelf packages tend to be very easy to upload logos etc despite the minimal customisation options.
Click to expand...

It's mainly because the control over the site appearance and logos etc is all done through FTP using the skin files.

We decided on this route as it offered much more flexibility in terms of the actual design and this is reflected in our live stores.

I will be honest and say that the design element of the store is not aimed at the complete novice, the administration of the store is though...
 
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openmind said:
It's mainly because the control over the site appearance and logos etc is all done through FTP using the skin files.

We decided on this route as it offered much more flexibility in terms of the actual design and this is reflected in our live stores.

I will be honest and say that the design element of the store is not aimed at the complete novice, the administration of the store is though...
Click to expand...

I should probably take time out to try a bit harder to understand the FTP stuff but it's a case of getting the new business on the net asap and I haven't got time to take a learning curve just now :)

Thanks for the replies all.

Still looking for the elusive sitebuilder though ......
 
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So if your budget is £50 per month what are you actually expecting?

If you haven't time to learn how to FTP I doubt you have time to run a business as that can take up hours of every day!!!
 
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wood1e2 said:
So if your budget is £50 per month what are you actually expecting?
Click to expand...

1) A site that allows your company logo to be uploaded easily.
2) A site that allows you to change the menu styles.
3) A site that gives you a choice of several payment gateways.
4) A site that doesn't cost the earth :)

As for having time to run a business, I already run a full time architectural practice. This business is a joint venture between the wife and I. She is not web design literate and I do not have time to sit down and figure it all out !!!
 
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Oh and a site that doesn't want to charge you £50 as a setup cost!! If the monthly cost is £20 - £50 then surely the setup part is easy and works on the basis that bare bones of the site would be exactly the same for each 'retailer' so why the high setup cost?

Would the monthly fee not cover that aspect.

Some charge it and some don't !!
 
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Hedgehog Toys said:
Still looking for the elusive sitebuilder though ......
Click to expand...

We don't have an automated sitebuilder feature... instead we run Boutique Wednesdays each week during which time shop owners can phone through or email style and design change requests to their shops. We do not charge extra for this service.

Perhaps we should look to automate it and give ourselves Wednesday off :p:D
 
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I would suggest that most off-shelf-pacakges that come with a set of kins would be fairly easy to change the logo.

You have to remember when you buy off-the-shelf you are compromising on somethings, alot of things or only a few things.

So only to have the problem of having to change the logo seems a delight to me.

The reason I said what I said was that it takes about 3 minutes to learn how to FTP and 30 seconds to upload a new logo...just search google to 'learn how to FTP' I think you will find plenty of video tutorials as well.

Also I am not sure what you mean by

"2) A site that allows you to change the menu styles."

Buying that changing the styles of one part of any webpage would take away from the design of the rest of the page.

3) A site that gives you a choice of several payment gateways.

This will mean a multitude of charges, ie costs to you. Start with one and work up once you have the turnover or the cliental that specify a specific payment process.

4) A site that doesn't cost the earth :)

Cost is all about perspective, monthly fee or one off payment for a bespoke design/e-commerce solution. Some would say £5000 is nothing, others would!!

How much do you charge for architectural services? Do you offer monthly payments on a set of designs at £30pm? :)
 
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Simple fact is that customising design is expensive if you want it "exactly" as you wish, but rarely merits the cost unless you are something like a fashion brand.

Look at some of the biggest sites on the web, take away the product images and what is left? A logo and usually very simple layouts. It's the small sites that have huge graphic headers, weird menu systems and lots of flashing banners all over the place.

I get the impression that the ability to 'tinker' will end up costing you a lot in time and money. Instead why don't you just plump for something that does the job you need it to and spend the rest of your time and money on marketing the site?

i.e. why do you want the option to change the menu styles? Why not pick a product that has the menu styles you want in the first place?

If you can't take the time to figure out things like FTP, I doubt you'll find the time to figure out the design tools needed in the back-end of any 'flexible' site builder system. I don't blame you, you should just find someone who will do that for you - once - then get on with selling.

I'm sure we could turn you out an excellent site for a similar annual cost, but the setup work we do for you means we'd charge it upfront, not monthly.

Anyone billing monthly is going to be working off a system that's exactly the same whether you're selling toys or pneumatic drills so I doubt you'll ever get the design just as you want.
 
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sgpratley said:
Anyone billing monthly is going to be working off a system that's exactly the same whether you're selling toys or pneumatic drills so I doubt you'll ever get the design just as you want.
Click to expand...

Not correct in our case, the monthly cost is a leased license to run the store on your own domain with full FTP access not working from a common code base.
 
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sgpratley said:
Simple fact is that customising design is expensive if you want it "exactly" as you wish, but rarely merits the cost unless you are something like a fashion brand.
Click to expand...

I would disagree with this.

What is expensive? If it takes a day to change a template design £150£250/£300/£450?

Do you turn away someone to fix your boiler even though water is everywhere just because they charge a call out fee and a £250 per day charge?

Everything is expensive, it is perspective, some large reatail ouytlets pay a four figure monthly fee for their website to be run for them. Now that could be expenisive but they obviously do not think so.

The trouble with the internet/web design industry is there are thousands of 'Earn money quick, get online with a great website and start selling for 27p and a bag of crisps'!!!

Then you end up with thousands of people asking why they can't be found on Google, why they can't easily change their logo, why won't VAT be included in my shopping cart...etc etc

There is more to everything than meets the eye, otherwise we would all fix our own boilers, re-wire our houses...

I feel I am digressing now :)
 
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I've said it a few times and I will still say it. I'm not a computer boffin but I've set up a viable outlet for my product on my own without outside help. Purchase cost is about £500 (stand 2b corrected there), Costs £85 per year. Very easy to use, 10000 products, basic to SEO, Uses all the payment gateways.

It is a off-the-shelf shop from EROL. A demo store may be downloaded on a 30 day trial.
 
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wood1e2 said:
How much do you charge for architectural services? Do you offer monthly payments on a set of designs at £30pm? :)
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Yep. We do actually offer staged payments for services rather than paying in one lump sum. Householders can sometimes find it easier to budget this way as the job develops and it also assists our cashflow and reduces the risk of someone doing a 'runner' and not paying up after we have spent a lot of time in consultation and design.
 
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In terms of how much you are prepared to pay for a website, come at it from a different angle.

How much money are you going to make from this business?
Would having a half way decent website make more money?
The answer, if you aren't sure, is Yes.

If you want to bring in £2000 net profit every month, is £50 a month and £50 set up for a website really so much money?
The answer, if you aren't sure, is No. It is a pittance.

However I suspect you are looking at your many years of eCommerce experience and deep down you know it is going to be a tall order to make that kind of dosh, that even 2000 products is going to make huge demands on your time and resources and that selling online is just not that simple.

So is your real question asking about a cart, or whether you should actually be doing this at all?
 
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SillyJokes said:
In terms of how much you are prepared to pay for a website, come at it from a different angle.

How much money are you going to make from this business?
Would having a half way decent website make more money?
The answer, if you aren't sure, is Yes.

If you want to bring in £2000 net profit every month, is £50 a month and £50 set up for a website really so much money?
The answer, if you aren't sure, is No. It is a pittance.

However I suspect you are looking at your many years of eCommerce experience and deep down you know it is going to be a tall order to make that kind of dosh, that even 2000 products is going to make huge demands on your time and resources and that selling online is just not that simple.

So is your real question asking about a cart, or whether you should actually be doing this at all?
Click to expand...

TO be honest the £50 a month was just a ballpark figure. The webkeeper site I look at is £65 a month. I agree the setup fee isn't much but then i'm just a tight wad :)
The product itself and it's not toys by the way, is not available in the UK as we are to be the official UK retailer. The profit margin is good and the demand is already there.
I just don't want the initial impression to look crap. I know from experience with the toys that my first attempt at site buiding was awful and I don't want to make thge same mistake with this one.
However, I don't want to pay out £600+ in one lump when I need that initial cash for other aspects of the business. Hence the reason for wanting to do the site myself.
The actual number of products is not that great but the variations in those products is quite substantial.
 
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SillyJokes said:
However I suspect you are looking at your many years of eCommerce experience and deep down you know it is going to be a tall order to make that kind of dosh, that even 2000 products is going to make huge demands on your time and resources and that selling online is just not that simple.
Click to expand...

Wise, wise words...
 
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Hedgehog Toys said:
TO be honest the £50 a month was just a ballpark figure. The webkeeper site I look at is £65 a month. I agree the setup fee isn't much but then i'm just a tight wad :)
The product itself and it's not toys by the way, is not available in the UK as we are to be the official UK retailer. The profit margin is good and the demand is already there.
I just don't want the initial impression to look crap. I know from experience with the toys that my first attempt at site buiding was awful and I don't want to make thge same mistake with this one.
However, I don't want to pay out £600+ in one lump when I need that initial cash for other aspects of the business. Hence the reason for wanting to do the site myself.
The actual number of products is not that great but the variations in those products is quite substantial.
Click to expand...

You raise so many more questions in my head. It really, truly worries me that you don't think it is worth spending £600 on a website after all your time spent trying to get your own efforts off the ground.

I worry too, that you will spend £600 and it still won't sell your product because you have chosen something that no one in the UK has heard of and is therefore not looking for and then you'll use the website as the excuse.
 
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One statistic I'd love to get my hands on (though I doubt anyone actually knows) is how many new online shops are started every year, and what percentage of them end up paying the owner more than minimum wage within 12 months.
 
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I agree that if you are starting something that is a business, then you should spend time and money in starting it correctly. The problem, however, is when you are trying to set up with little capital to finance it, so you look for a low cost solution.

Does this mean that you will fail, or that you shouldn't start? Not necessarily - the beauty of the internet is that the playing field is levelled to some extent, because the consumer base is so wide, it is possible to make money.

If you have the money to invest, then of course you should go for the best quality solution you can. You wouldn't go for a bricks and mortar shop in the dodgiest area of town just because it was the cheapest.
 
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Stampy said:
I agree that if you are starting something that is a business, then you should spend time and money in starting it correctly. The problem, however, is when you are trying to set up with little capital to finance it, so you look for a low cost solution.

Does this mean that you will fail, or that you shouldn't start? Not necessarily - the beauty of the internet is that the playing field is levelled to some extent, because the consumer base is so wide, it is possible to make money.
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Weeeel, yes and no. I will explain.

One of the greatest fallacies is that the Internet is this great leveller, providing a level playing field for everyone. This is far, far from the truth. You simply can't come in and compete with established sites, which are getting a good level of daily traffic, and have a large customer base, on the same footing. It's a battle all the way.

There are some situations where you can compete on price. For instance, many people buying a washing machine will identify the one they want, then shop around for the best price. If you have a reasonable looking site, and the lowest price, you will take a % of those sales. But you can be sure that you will be making very little money on that sale, because Comet can buy their machines cheaper, and deliver them cheaper.

The other great fallacy is that you can start online on a shoestring, paying £50 a month for your website, a few hundred pounds of stock, and a few hours in the evening. Not in any way true. We all know a few examples where this has happened, but for every success there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of failures.
 
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I completely agree with everything you've said. And I don't think that competing on price is ever really an option, particularly with competitive products, because the margins are just not going to be there.

But the leveller that you mentioned means that there are ways to build a decent amount of targetted traffic from a low cost starting point. It may take time, and involve targetting a lot of long tail keywords rather than the more lucrative ones, but it is possible. The problem is unrealistic expectations, which is what the the thousands of failures attest to.

At the end of the day, you are connecting buyers to products - if you can do that enough you can make money.
 
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Stampy said:
At the end of the day, you are connecting buyers to products - if you can do that enough you can make money.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is certainly doable. Our first site took £150k and 2 years before it started returning a reasonable profit.
 
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sysops said:
The other great fallacy is that you can start online on a shoestring, paying £50 a month for your website, a few hundred pounds of stock, and a few hours in the evening. Not in any way true. We all know a few examples where this has happened, but for every success there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of failures.
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Is this true now? Because that is exactly how we started, but it took 18 months before the site was our sole income. Also, we were fortunate in that TopHat was a bit of a whizz and did a good job of the site. Also we found hours in the day and used those, like the ones before 6am, which I think we couldn't find now with four kids.

It took 8 weeks before we made a sale but after that it was up and up and up. All our friends who started little businesses at the same time are no longer running, so we must have done something different I'm just not sure what.
 
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sysops said:
The other great fallacy is that you can start online on a shoestring, paying £50 a month for your website, a few hundred pounds of stock, and a few hours in the evening. Not in any way true.
Click to expand...

Once again I've got to pull you up on this, you can start on a shoe-string budget and become successful over time. The only issue really is your own expectations, I agree that if your marketing spend is pitiful to non-existent then don't expect to be the next Asos by the year end.

Your argument just doesn't stack up, look at almost any long-standing high street brand and they all started as small operations, corner shops etc with larger more established businesses to compete against, why do you presume that its any different on the web?
 
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