B
brownie
- Original Poster
- #4
Purchasing Dreamweaver is a large commitment, have you not thought about starting off with a cheaper application that will produce the same results? I'm still using my original copy of Dreamweaver 3 and all it saves me is time, I still use an open source code editor (notepad++)for certain tasks.
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I would not purchase DreamWeaver. I made my first site by hand-coding all the HTML, CSS and producing the design in Photoshop. This work is too complicated to be handled in Dreamweaver to any sort of decent standard.
Most web developers with several years under their belt would consider Dreamweaver sites to be a travesty and not worth the hard disk space they reside on.
You can learn HTML here:
http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp
As well as lots of other things you will need to know. From that site you should be able to make sites of a decent standard from scratch rather than relying on crutches, i.e. Dreamweaver.
Most web developers with several years under their belt would consider Dreamweaver sites to be a travesty and not worth the hard disk space they reside on.
You can learn HTML here:
http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp
As well as lots of other things you will need to know. From that site you should be able to make sites of a decent standard from scratch rather than relying on crutches, i.e. Dreamweaver.
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I would agree that in most cases a web site is about selling or building something; and you are right, a design can hinder this by being too artistic. However, sites produced in Dreamweaver WYSIWYG will always be inferior to site built by hand. Sites built in Dreamweaver tend to lack scalability, refinement and cross-browser computability. They also tend wrought with botches and text-book errors.
If you are learning to build websites, you might as well learn how to do it from the ground up. It will probably take the same ammount of time as learning Dreamweaver and will give you unlimited control over sites you build whereas building them in Dreamweaver will only let you build them in the confindes of the applications Unless you know how to use the code view but, in which case you might as well just build the whole thing in that.
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N
NetwiseHosting
- Original Poster
- #9
I am in agreement with most of the posters so far. Dreamweaver, whilst looking very appealing with its nice GUI and advanced features, will infact produce code imperfections and you will find yourself wrestling with it to output exactly what you want/need.
You would be far better off learning the basics of web coding with the simple languages, and refer back to online guides and tutorials for the tricky more complex parts. Over time you will learn all you need. This can all be strung together in a raw text editor like Notepad, or a non-intrusive coding editor.
Its all about knowing what your doing, and more importantly fully understanding what it is you are putting onto the web. This will lead you onto better success, and build on your range of skills in the future.
You would be far better off learning the basics of web coding with the simple languages, and refer back to online guides and tutorials for the tricky more complex parts. Over time you will learn all you need. This can all be strung together in a raw text editor like Notepad, or a non-intrusive coding editor.
Its all about knowing what your doing, and more importantly fully understanding what it is you are putting onto the web. This will lead you onto better success, and build on your range of skills in the future.
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L
labcreative
- Original Poster
- #11
I learnt to hand code HTML/XHTML (and ColdFusion later on) but I wouldn't be without Dreamweaver. The list of features which help make my job as a designer/developer easier is just huge.
I definitely recommend learning to code by hand first though. There's nothing like being able to dip into the code to tweak things manually and it will certainly help you produce better websites.
I definitely recommend learning to code by hand first though. There's nothing like being able to dip into the code to tweak things manually and it will certainly help you produce better websites.
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J
jadexsoln
- Original Poster
- #12
Agree with most of the posts above - hand coding is the way to go rather than the bloated code often produced by products like Dreamweaver. Get yourself a good HTML/CSS editor (I use BlueFish, available for Linux & MAC) and learn HTML/CSS properly - it will help you in the long run.
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L
los_design
- Original Poster
- #13
If you are going to customise your template, you may well need to photoshop/fireworks too.I am just about to purchase dreamweaver to start building websites,part time, What sort of costs are involved if i buy a template for £40.00ish
I know i have to buy my domain and hosting but is there any other costs or is it just my time
Depends where you are getting your template from of course, but you should be able to view what software you need by viewing the details of the template.
HTH
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L
los_design
- Original Poster
- #14
Could not disagree more.
Yes, hand coding is great for people like me (qualified web app dev) and you, but for a guy wanting to start at home? The learning curve is way too steep to be effective anytime soon IMHO.
As for scaleable issues, no way. The only restriction you will find when developing in DW is your skillbase.
You can develop any site up to any standard in DW as long as you know how.
JMTC
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B
bdw
- Original Poster
- #15
With respect this is just not true and I regulalry hear comments like this from people who may not be familiar with newer versions of DW, which can actually help you to produce fully validated code. I use DW CS3 on a daily basis and it is a great tool when you have learned how to use it. Actually learning how to use it is however a serious commitment.
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I've just spilt tea down my shirt. You can't be serious about preferring FrontPage?
The latest versions of Dreamweaver I agree are pants but go back to DW4 and it's a much simpler application and you can pick it up for a tenner on ebay.
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I am not familiar with new versions of Dreamweaver. Last time I saw it in use was in about 2004-2005. If your site is built purely on Dreamweaver, I would say it does look a lot better than it used to. However, there are still things that I would not be happy with like empty p and b tags, unnecessary use of html entities and use of br.
If its going to be a big commitment to learn DW, I would just learn hand-coding HTML and CSS.
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B
bdw
- Original Poster
- #18
Why would you not be happy with this? The time it takes to correct them can be better spent. An empty p tag never caused any of my clients any problem. I am too busy thinking about how my client's websites can generate more traffic to be concerned about things that have zero effect on performance. Forget about the fine detail and think about what you are doing for your clients.
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NetwiseHosting
- Original Poster
- #20
I guess it really comes down to what your site is used for. If you're a tradesman who just fancies dipping into the world of online presence for displaying contact details and maybe some simple information, then a basic knocked-up Frontpage/Dreamweaver site will do fine.
But if you deal primarily or exclusively online, your website is your shopfront. It has to be of the highest quality, similar to the quality expected of a good shop on the highstreet. It cant be hashed together without any real knowledge of sitebuilding if you want to attract a solid customer base.
But if you deal primarily or exclusively online, your website is your shopfront. It has to be of the highest quality, similar to the quality expected of a good shop on the highstreet. It cant be hashed together without any real knowledge of sitebuilding if you want to attract a solid customer base.
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H
HOMESAFE
- Original Poster
- #21
Right,I have my trial and this is a lot more involved than i thought, If I buy a template from herehttp://www.templatemonster.com/ will it save
me a lot of time?
me a lot of time?
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I'd recommend using a free template if you are just building the one site. You will probably find one you like for free. Google "free css templates". I have some free ones here:
http://semlabs.co.uk/journal/free-fluid-wordpress-themes-and-css-templates
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los_design
- Original Poster
- #23
I sell and customise these templates on my main site so I can safely say YES.
If you wish to customise a site fully, have you grabbed the free photoshop trial as well? This will help you change button text etc a lot faster.
Also, are you grabbing a flash headered tp? If so, download flash too
Regards
Daren
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L
los_design
- Original Poster
- #25
Spot on.
Also, if you are planning to use a TM template then why not download one of their FREE samples to see how you get on with it before you part with any cash.
This way you will not only see if you can work with it, but also what tools you will need to complete the job.
HTH
Regards
Daren
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B
bdw
- Original Poster
- #26
Beware of the restrictions on the use of free templates. Many of these are released under a creative commons license which means that the original designer must be credited on the finished website. Your clients may ask you to remove this credit (I would) and then you are stuffed.
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3
32cardinalpoints
- Original Poster
- #27
Dreamweaver isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be and it is a milion times better than Front Page. It is worth trying out the 30 day trial and if you like the software product, then go ahead and buy it.
You mentioned about buying a template design. The only problem with buying a template design for your website that it still requires a large amount of work if you decide you want to change images etc. You will also need a copy of a graphics package like Adobe Photoshop or Fireworks to edit the graphic template or else you may be paying out additional costs for amendments.
If you require further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.
You mentioned about buying a template design. The only problem with buying a template design for your website that it still requires a large amount of work if you decide you want to change images etc. You will also need a copy of a graphics package like Adobe Photoshop or Fireworks to edit the graphic template or else you may be paying out additional costs for amendments.
If you require further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.
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B
bdw
- Original Poster
- #29
Incidentally there is a free, open source editor that is similar to Dreamweaver called NVU (http://www.net2.com/nvu/). I haven't actually tried it myself but I have heard that it's pretty good.
Obviously it won't do all that DW does but it may do enough for you?
Obviously it won't do all that DW does but it may do enough for you?
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L
los_design
- Original Poster
- #30
It is still around for download (I think) but it is no longer supported.
I used it when studying at uni and whilst it did not have all the bells and whistles of DW it did the job OK.
I would put it on a par with DW6. I am afraid it does not hold a candle to CS3+
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Dreamweaver should only be used to create CSS templates for CMSs. If you don't know what a CSS is you shouldn't even consider buying it.
Dreamweaver used to be used for static sites. ie. one which wasn't updated often. However the static site is dead. SEO, search engine optimization (getting to the top of the Google listings) demands that sites be updated regularly; everyday if possible. Dreamweaver based sites don't make this easy for the non-technical. Slowly the CMS has taken over this role.
If you really want to learn how to develop a websites I recommend using a CMS. The top 3 free ones are Drupal, Joomla and Wordpress.
Dreamweaver used to be used for static sites. ie. one which wasn't updated often. However the static site is dead. SEO, search engine optimization (getting to the top of the Google listings) demands that sites be updated regularly; everyday if possible. Dreamweaver based sites don't make this easy for the non-technical. Slowly the CMS has taken over this role.
If you really want to learn how to develop a websites I recommend using a CMS. The top 3 free ones are Drupal, Joomla and Wordpress.
- Drupal is the biggest pig to learn, Is the most flexible, suitable for running many sites on one server. Newspapers and big business use this.
- Joomla is the most popular but has quirky logic. Amazing number of plugins that means your website can look incredible. Careful some plugins conflict. I tend to use this.
- Wordpress - You can learn this and have your site up and running in a day. Best for beginners, but your site can look a bit bloggy.
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Dear Bdw,
I looked at your homepage and think you need to give CMSs a second look. They have come a long long way. Been down the Dreamweaver, handcoding paths. Design is only one factor in a successful webbusiness. This is one of my sites - cool****injapan dot com. It's gimmik heavy but that is because I'm experimenting with cloudfront and S3 on a cheapy shared server. The goal is cheap hosting with unlimited scalability. It's what every startup needs. If only it were possible with cashflow.
I looked at your homepage and think you need to give CMSs a second look. They have come a long long way. Been down the Dreamweaver, handcoding paths. Design is only one factor in a successful webbusiness. This is one of my sites - cool****injapan dot com. It's gimmik heavy but that is because I'm experimenting with cloudfront and S3 on a cheapy shared server. The goal is cheap hosting with unlimited scalability. It's what every startup needs. If only it were possible with cashflow.
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B
bdw
- Original Poster
- #36
I ran your homepage through the W3C validator and it reported 118 errors and 116 warnings.
If you are serious about running a business you have to be able to produce largely valid code for your clients whether you use a CMS, Dreamweaver or a plain text editor. It would seem that your CMS cannot do this.
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Toucher - Of course it gives errors thro a w3c validator it's running thro cloudfront. You can't use cookie cutter tools to prove a point. It's like using an MOT to test an aircraft's roadworthyness.
Sorry but that is the way that the business is going. Static sites are dead. Web 2.0 has become the norm and web 3.0 is starting to emerge. Why? because it reduces the costs of starting a site and running a site. It also reduces the amount of technical knowledge required and allows for automatic scaleability.
EWD - If you are going to criticize make it constructive. Alternatively justify your opinion.
Sorry but that is the way that the business is going. Static sites are dead. Web 2.0 has become the norm and web 3.0 is starting to emerge. Why? because it reduces the costs of starting a site and running a site. It also reduces the amount of technical knowledge required and allows for automatic scaleability.
EWD - If you are going to criticize make it constructive. Alternatively justify your opinion.
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Dreamweaver is an excellent tool for building brochure websites. You have dismissed static sites in favour of CMS but there are millions of well ranking stactic sites, some of which haven't been touched for years.
Furthermore, DW can be used to to create CMS templates and PHP files. What it's not very good at is CSS (it doesn't do shortcuts very well).
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