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Dragons Den (yet again)

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vvaannmmaann

vvaannmmaann

Free Member
Nov 6, 2007
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Forgot it was on,joined it half way through.Just saw the end bit of man and woman who got backing from all the Dragons.
What was the product/idea that the man and woman had?
 
It was a water carrier on wheels to be used in developing countries where clean water is not easily accessible. You fill the container with (presumably) contaminated water and by the time you have walked back to your village/camp - it has been purified. Fantastic idea. They wanted £50,000 for 10% of the Company and had all 5 Dragons chipping in 10,000 each for 2% each - they were all fighting with each other to get involved :D

Now is it just me but am I the only person on the planet who thought that the Christmas Tree disposal bag was also a very good idea????:D
 
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Yep, only you Claire B - truly awful idea. I spent £12 on a tree from a farm up the road - I'll hoover the needles up when they fall off - I already own a hoover.

The water purification unit was absolutely fantastic - with them all so keen though, I'm surprised they didn't put in double the money for 20% which I'm sure the pair would have accepted.
 
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Claire B said:
Now is it just me but am I the only person on the planet who thought that the Christmas Tree disposal bag was also a very good idea????:D
Click to expand...

You're not the only person on the planet - he did state that a couple of resonably sized garden centres and Selfridges had expressed an interest.
 
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Claire B said:
...

Now is it just me but am I the only person on the planet who thought that the Christmas Tree disposal bag was also a very good idea????:D
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They are very common in France, although for some reason seem to be sold via a charity, or at least linked to a charity. You arrange them at the bottom of the tree to make a snow-pile like mound, and then just pull them up straight over the tree before carting through your house. They decompose in around 6 weeks on the compost heap.
 
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Their argument was slightly flawed though (the Dragons) as they said that no-one would spend the money and yet we spend that on stands for the tree to go into when surely a bucket of sand would would suffice?

Anyway - I won't be buying one now (or at least I won't admit to it if I do ;) :D)
 
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I had the Gold Genie guy on the phone the other day trying to get some costumes for his Harrods launch. I couldn't actually help him out but what a really nice bloke he was. He said it was very good working with James.

I hope he is successful.
 
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Yes, he did seem like a nice person. Did his gold tooth only appear after he received his investment from the Dragons or was it there when he did his original pitch :)?
 
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Claire B said:
Their argument was slightly flawed though (the Dragons) as they said that no-one would spend the money and yet we spend that on stands for the tree to go into when surely a bucket of sand would would suffice?

Anyway - I won't be buying one now (or at least I won't admit to it if I do ;) :D)
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I didn't see DD, but from what you say it just goes to show how a hunch based on personal reaction can be wrong. Just going from the number of bagged trees I see in my street, they must sell at least 500K-1M of these bags over here each year, and at £2-£3.50 a pop, somebody is making money somewhere. Maybe it's because there's a higher percentage of appartments in France, I don't know, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
 
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they must sell at least 500K-1M of these bags over here each year, and at £2-£3.50 a pop,
Click to expand...

Fair point, but the guy wanted to sell them at around £15 and they didn't decompose.

There is only a small window to seel them in each year as well. How many trees are moved through your house each year that also lose a lot of needles?
 
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Claire B said:
You fill the container with (presumably) contaminated water and by the time you have walked back to your village/camp - it has been purified. Fantastic idea.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I don't get it :redface:

This is what I took from the concept - normally you can carry about 20 litres of water without killing yourself from the strain - so they made a contraption that can carry 50 litres (am I right so far?) it also filters it on the walk home.

Why not just have a contraption that wheels 200 litres home ...and then filter it at home? :|

which part am I missing?
 
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You are missing the part where the container is pulled along on wheels and it is this action that purifies it.

The purification system mechanical and does not require chemicals like larger purification plants. In emergency scenarios an instant quick fix that can provide pure water i.e. after an earthquake would be a life saver.

I've go to say however that they don't have a working prototype. I wonder if something on wheels would actually not work in tough terrain.
 
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SillyJokes said:
You are missing the part where the container is pulled along on wheels and it is this action that purifies it.
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Yeh but can't you just get home with 200 litres of water, pour 2ltr into a container and shake it through a filter - or tie it to the dog (in fact I thought there was already some kind of lifetime solar powered water filter available for purifying water once you get it home?)
It seemed to me more about the quantity of the water and the distance that was the issue.


SillyJokes said:
I've go to say however that they don't have a working prototype. I wonder if something on wheels would actually not work in tough terrain.
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I agree. The whole gearing, wheel, filter mechanism looked very fragile to me - especially for that environmet.
 
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I also wondered about rough terrain as the wheels didn't look that substantial but they can probably get round that.

JustOneUK said:
Why not just have a contraption that wheels 200 litres home ...and then filter it at home? :|

which part am I missing?
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Apparently, the chemicals needed to purify the water normally are very costly and subject to there not being any wars or blockades etc in the region (so that new supplies of purification chemicals can get through) - to install a permanent filtration system would cost several thousand. (I think) :)
 
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Yeh, my point was more along the lines of - can't you simulate the "walking home shake through a filter process" when you get home with your GIANT amount of water.

No chemicals required.

<add> They said that their filter needs changing approx annually, it's no different that any reverse osmosis filter that you can just bolt under your sink (is it?) These filter water DIRECTLY as water passes through them and have a filter that only requires 6 month changing. It seems to me they just invented a 50ltr bucket on wheels!.. and have complicated the issue by putting a filter inside the fragile device.

Don't get me wrong - everything/anything is better than nothing in this situation - but it does seem like overkill.
 
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Claire B said:
It was a water carrier on wheels to be used in developing countries where clean water is not easily accessible. You fill the container with (presumably) contaminated water and by the time you have walked back to your village/camp - it has been purified. Fantastic idea. They wanted £50,000 for 10% of the Company and had all 5 Dragons chipping in 10,000 each for 2% each - they were all fighting with each other to get involved :D

Now is it just me but am I the only person on the planet who thought that the Christmas Tree disposal bag was also a very good idea????:D
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It was a good idea but the price was wrong £5-7 and feel they could take off.

Earl
 
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The point is it provides an instant solution in an emergency. To do it with a separate filter requires the filter to be at the place the water is required and then to get the water to this point, then filter it.With their invention you could say just drop the carrier to where ever it is needed in one helicopter drop rather than drop a water carrier and then a filter system else where.

As they mentioned its a different and new application of existing technology.
 
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Only issue I see is that there must be a certain distance travelled to complete the reverse osmosis for a given amount of water?:|

but cracking idea ,not sure about there costing of selling each unit for £20.00 ?

Earl
 
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The reason the carrier is on wheels and only purifies 50l is that the purification is a mechanical proces calles reverse osmosis. The water has to be pushed/pumped through a filter. It is a very slow process, and you need power. Power that is either mechanical or electric, which is generated by the revolution of the wheels.
According to the inventers research, people travled about 6km for water every day. 6km is the distance needed to clean 50l of water.

Cheers

Steve
 
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lockie said:
The point is it provides an instant solution in an emergency. To do it with a separate filter requires the filter to be at the place the water is required and then to get the water to this point, then filter it.With their invention you could say just drop the carrier to where ever it is needed in one helicopter drop rather than drop a water carrier and then a filter system else where.

As they mentioned its a different and new application of existing technology.
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If you drop the carrier - you could drop the filter at the same time.

Interesting to know how you change the filter on the device - do they supply screwdriver kits?

No biggy - don't want to cause an argument - it's obvioulsy very clever for some reason that I just don't understand :)

regards
James.
 
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Thanks guys,top answers as ever.Water filters must be in vogue at the mo.I was reading at the W/E about another guy who has developed a bottle (looks like a 2 litre water bottle) that is filled with dirty water it is filtered in the bottle and is instantly drinkable.
 
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Known contaminated water they said was usually about only 1.2 km away as opposed to 6km for better quality water was typical they said. And given a litre of water weighs 1 kilo, a limit of 50kg is about the maximum that would be deemed safe under H&S guidence (though how not having enough water is concidered okay beats me :|) this is twice the weight of a big bag of spuds or cement. Plenty of pushing/pulling over rough ground I'm sure you'll agree.

RE the tree sack, the bloke misses out the crucial bit in that its a buy once/use forever product so £15 wouldn't seem so bad... Have done this with bin bags for years, and tucked it into the bucket until needed, works wonders :D Never thought to make money from it :(
 
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vvaannmmaann said:
Thanks guys,top answers as ever.Water filters must be in vogue at the mo.I was reading at the W/E about another guy who has developed a bottle (looks like a 2 litre water bottle) that is filled with dirty water it is filtered in the bottle and is instantly drinkable.
Click to expand...


Yep you die 10 minutes later but its instantly drinkable.:rolleyes::D:D

Earl
 
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Steve Cool said:
The reason the carrier is on wheels and only purifies 50l is that the purification is a mechanical proces calles reverse osmosis. The water has to be pushed/pumped through a filter. It is a very slow process, and you need power. Power that is either mechanical or electric, which is generated by the revolution of the wheels.
According to the inventers research, people travled about 6km for water every day. 6km is the distance needed to clean 50l of water.

Cheers

Steve
Click to expand...

so if the source of your water is 50 yards you have to jog for 4 miles .

I should co co.:rolleyes:
 
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There was another guy from a University with a pitch before - the Dragons liked it, but when they questioned him, the university had a large stake in the product and wanted a fortune to be bought out (or, they owned the rights to it, effectively - net result, the same). The deal, I think, fell through.

Given that, I was surprised that there didn't seem to be any questions asked along those lines- or did I miss that? :|
 
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Claire B said:
...Now is it just me but am I the only person on the planet who thought that the Christmas Tree disposal bag was also a very good idea????:D
Click to expand...

Yes it was a good idea, although £15 was a bit high...£10 for a decorative tree skirt come bag seems like an ok price to pay.

The Dragons missed the point that a tree costs £14 and is used once then binned. This product can be used for many years and is dual purpose. People pay a lot of money for decorations don't they?!! So how is this different?

Maybe the design needed a bit more thought...more white? Why not have other colours to match your decorations?
 
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is it me or are the dragons getting a bit too cocky now?

Although i thought the xmas tree bag was highly over priced i thought the dragons were far too dismissive of the idea.

it seems to me that they need a new set of dragons. after all, how many business can five people invest into before their input is too thinly spread. it seems now like they they just pick and choose only the VERY best ideas, then take 40% instead of 10% offered and then shoot down all the other ideas as if ridiculous.

the dragons now have too much bargaining power. i say sack them all and get some TRUE venture capitalists in (get back the aussie, Richard Farliegh for a start).

as for the water barrel one. did anyone notice that they didnt try and bargain what so ever! seemed like a bit of conscience cleansing to me! any non-charitable idea they would have taken them to the cleaners! bit of eco PR in the extreme.


Richard Bisset
Network Freelance - Freelance PR and Marketing Contracts
 
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Dragons Den is simple.

Inventor.
Patented product or patent pending.
Profitable business / business idea / product.
Agreement to high share.

Job done. It really isnt so much for entrepreneurs but for inventors to sell a new product on the market.

If what you are proposing has been done or is being done, even with modifications to the product or service which is still profitable, they are not interested.
All they want is something which is new and cannot be copied (patented).
 
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I think she's hit the nail on the head, it does need reformating, personally myself I'd like to see a "troubleshooter" type format introduced. Get the basis of a good idea and instead of pitching for cash, pitch for a mentor to help get a product/service to market.

It would in my opinion, help the economy through getting viewers who are contemplating going into business, an insight into what they are letting themselves into. The show would:
  • Still have gloss in its appeal into seeing the chaff get rejected.
  • Have a follow-up as it does with the current format
  • Initiate a watchable mentor/mentored relationship for TV
  • Narrow the field of those used to pad out the show, instead focus on a viewer/Dragon/mentored explanation to be formed
  • Yield a different type viewer, those more businessly minded rather than those looking for confrontational TV
and remove:
  • Time wasting shots of people we don't hear about, use them or lose them...
  • Vitriol of the highest order, people have enough grief in life as it is, society mimics much of TV as it is, show bosses in a positive light for a change.
Like a lot of people, the troubleshooter for me, was the best Business TV show going, Sir John took the time to explain things, point out the obvious and help people, people who helped their local economy.

To me the Dragons Den has started to become a "Beat 'em or Back 'em" show, with the beatings out-numbering the backing at about 9 to 1. The rejected more often than not, are slaughtered, spoken to rudely and often leave without any positive comments. Is it any wonder that the young are often percieved to have the manners of a rat, when we condone the behaviour of the Dragons. They could use their experiences so much better in my view.
 
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What happened to the similar programme they had on ITV?
It was so good,I cannot remember the name of it!
 
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It was a crap program with Peter Jones putting the people through the hoops as a compertition with no thought of helping them but just making TV

Often felt that PJ is only in it for himself, whilst the others are actually interested in the people and making their idea's work for both of them.

I would much rather have James, Theo or Duncan work with me.

PS most caravan users buy a 40 litre water container for about £35-40 in UK

I also think most of the customers they thought would buy the water treatment system were large Charity's and emergeny relief organisations, Guess they could have sold a few in the MIdlands this year with the floods
 
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just to add my 2p worth. The people that presented this water filtration system(Red Button Designs) are featured in the Times after winning two awards and £45k prize money. Some Oxford University Business award and one other.

I do thnk that it is good product in principle and will make a difference. As people have mentioned above there appears to be a few faults with it. No doubt the product will have been tweaked by the time it hits production.

One of their main sales streams was to relief groups. Justification was that the UK Government alone has just assigned £200m to helping third world countries and world relief with problems such as water filteration etc.

Seems like a classic case of chasing the money. With the Dragons on board no doubt this will add some profile to their product.
 
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