Don't buy a Diesel car

[Deleted member 226268]

.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/14/mot-changes-strict-tests-diesel-cars-fail

Government is deliberately destroying our Life-as-we-know-it ..... Jim.
Under the guise of the ....EU driven Clean Air for All .... BS Money - Making SCAM.

We are still under EU control, Brexit or not.

This is going to make prices rocket for every business.
More companies closing down.

What will happen to all those courier delivery company trucks, Vans, Taxis ?
Rubbish Bin trucks ?
Diesel trains ?
Construction vehicles ?

However, we will of course allow you to pollute all the air you want ...... as long as you pay us an extortionate daily "Fee" to drive your heavily polluting vehicle around our cities.

Then we will completely ignore the life threatening pollution.


... In fact, we don't want you lowly Serfs to have any other car at all >>>
So we are going to ban them altogether.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...all-diesel-and-petrol-cars-and-vans-from-2040

See the Gov web site for details on how to rent your very own Boris Bike.

.

 

[Mr D]

And then the media wonder why car makers are cutting jobs?

 

[Toby Willows]

Diesel isn’t a fuel it’s a engine design. You can run a Diesel engine environmentally friendly for about 20p or less per litre. No revenue in it though for the government which is why they don’t encourage it.

 

[Deleted member 226268]

Here is the first victim of this Dumb-Ass policy.
And all of those small subsidiary companies who rely on Rover to keep them in business.

Feels a bit like going back to all the coal mine closures.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...e-to-brexit-diesel-slump-source-idUKKBN1HK1M1

 

[Mr D]

Here is the first victim of this Dumb-Ass policy.
And all of those small subsidiary companies who rely on Rover to keep them in business.

Feels a bit like going back to all the coal mine closures.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...e-to-brexit-diesel-slump-source-idUKKBN1HK1M1

Ah yes the Labour policy several decades ago carried on by the Conservatives afterwards. Helped along by the mining unions.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Once more a ill thought out government post and a simplistic mayor looking for more money make a few new laws and then act in shock that the country stops buying diesel cars and puts lots of people out of work as they fear the worst that can happen

Answer big cars now drive 4-5 ltr petrol engines instead of 2.5-3 ltr diesel engines to have the same torque

 

[Toby Willows]

Once more a ill thought out government post and a simplistic mayor looking for more money make a few new laws and then act in shock that the country stops buying diesel cars and puts lots of people out of work as they fear the worst that can happen

Answer big cars now drive 4-5 ltr petrol engines instead of 2.5-3 ltr diesel engines to have the same torque

Ah yes, but a 5ltr petrol V8 sounds so much better than a 2.5 litre diesel. No contest.

 

[Mr D]

Once more a ill thought out government post and a simplistic mayor looking for more money make a few new laws and then act in shock that the country stops buying diesel cars and puts lots of people out of work as they fear the worst that can happen

Answer big cars now drive 4-5 ltr petrol engines instead of 2.5-3 ltr diesel engines to have the same torque

Was only less than 30 years ago that government was pushing diesel cars.
People complied as did the car companies. Then government realised too many people were using diesels and decided to change things again.
Like when they encourage self employment then find out they are losing too much money and target self employment...

 

[Deleted member 226268]

DON'T BUY A VAUXHALL CAR

The UK car industry seems to be going the same direction towards the sunset as the coal mines, the steel works, the NHS and the Dodo bird.
Thousands more jobs lost, by those who will never find another job anywhere else.

Problem is that governments insist on making more and more cars to keep people employed,
but more and more people don't have the money to buy them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5622735/Vauxhall-set-cancel-contracts-326-dealers-UK.html

.

 

[Mr D]

Sorry which direction is the NHS going again?
What direction is the steel works going?

 

[Deleted member 226268]

Sorry which direction is the NHS going again?
What direction is the steel works going?

Don't get ill.....

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/13/revealed-82-ghost-wards-1400-empty-beds-nhs-england

https://nursingnotes.co.uk/nmc-says-worrying-amount-nurses-leaving-register/

 

[Mr D]

I'm a cripple barely able to move (thanks to 3 hours walking around the NEC on Monday) and on medication the rest of my life. Why would I get ill?
Haven't been to the hospital since last Friday regarding breathing difficulties. Haven't had a fall onto the floor in almost 11 hours.

1400 empty beds, so the overcrowding reported in January has gone now? I understand one hospital reported 99.9% occupancy rate.

Nurses leaving?
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-staffing-numbers

"The NHS in England employs just over 1 million full-time equivalent (FTE) staff (not including those working in general practice). This number has been increasing at about 0.5 per cent on average per year over the past seven years.

Since 2010 there has been an increase in the number of staff in all groups except managers and backroom support staff.

The number of nursing staff has increased by 1.8 per cent from 281,064 FTEs in 2010 to 286,020 FTEs in 2017. Nursing numbers fell between 2011 and 2013, but have increased each year since then, although the rate of growth has slowed over the past two years. The increase in nursing numbers reflects the NHS response to various reports on the quality of patient care. Despite this increase, there is a shortage of nurses in the NHS. Health Education England has estimated a shortfall in nursing staff of approximately 8.9 per cent as of March 2015, and has projected that this could rise to 11.4 per cent by 2020."

 

[Deleted member 226268]

Depends on which fake news one reads first

Wages are going down in "real" terms
Thousands of Nurses are leaving the profession every year in "real" terms

https://nursingnotes.co.uk/nhs-staff-offered-pay-rise-below-the-rate-of-inflation/

 

[Mr D]

Depends on which fake news one reads first

Wages are going down in "real" terms
Thousands of Nurses are leaving the profession every year in "real" terms

https://nursingnotes.co.uk/nhs-staff-offered-pay-rise-below-the-rate-of-inflation/

So plenty of nurses stay in the profession for something other than pay rises. And people become nurses for something other than pay rises.
Is the pension pretty bad? Is the pay so awful? Are the jobs so hard to get?
Public sector workers, government has tended to give them poor pay rises for years. They can always go work in the private sector, places that have slightly higher or lower pay rises and different other conditions.
What was the pay rise at your local GP surgery last year? Ask a nurse there.

 

[The next Steve Jobs]

Kind of ironic that only a few years back they were promoting diesel!

BBC article, the trouble with diesal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38814297


Because the world is rapidly running out of fossil fuels two big changes will happen

1) lowly surfs will be priced off the road ( poverty due in part to the energy descent)

2) the emmisions problem will start to go away due to the reduction in vehicle miles



The last dregs of fossil fuel will be reserved for the police and army, there will come a point when the fire and ambulance service go back to being horse driven....we are talking within the lifetime of people allready born!

KEY POINT

while governments inevitabley screw over one group in favour of another the blame for being taxed back into poverty ultimatly resides in the fact that finite energy sources are just that, finite...so once the fossil fuel powered free lunch is over it's over for ever! ... electric cars 'too cheap' to measure are NOT the future, energy rationing for the masses is!

HANDS UP WHO VOTED FOR POPULATION CONTROL?
Anyone? well your abstention means an energy descent, sooner rather than later



Prime minister of United Arab emirates
My grandfather rode a camel, My father drove a jeep
I drive a land rover but my son will ride a camel

 

[The next Steve Jobs]

WHAT KILLED ECONOMIC GROWTH? ( and is killing diesal and petrol cars)

The diesal issue is in part due to the wrong kind of pollution, but it's just yet another sign that we are close to the end of the age of fossil fuels...we each have the energy equivalent of 20 human slaves working for us ... all due to the huge energy return on energy investment associated with prime quality fossil fuels, as those run out we have to use poorer fuels, what with the growing population you have more people reaching for a smaller energy cake.....simple maths

If you only take a simplistic view of the complex world you live in then you will often find that your simply wrong ... an inconvenient truth for many.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Nothing at all to do with over capacity of cars in the world at all

In the 1960's when i first came interested in cars and my farther brought one the cars started to show rust after two years and most only lasted about 5 years and that was before MOT;s, They di about 70,000 miles a lifetime and were knackered well before that

Now days the cars will go for about 20,000 to 240,000 miles and seldom rust away but people still want a new car every few years rather than buy second hand cars so many go to the scrap yard well before they are knackered and most people own a car.

Maybe people and companies are beginning to see sense and happy to drive around in 5 or 10 year old cars and with the mayhem caused by the government and others few will be tempted by diesel

 

[Mark T Jones]

Nothing at all to do with over capacity of cars in the world at all

In the 1960's when i first came interested in cars and my farther brought one the cars started to show rust after two years and most only lasted about 5 years and that was before MOT;s, They di about 70,000 miles a lifetime and were knackered well before that

Now days the cars will go for about 20,000 to 240,000 miles and seldom rust away but people still want a new car every few years rather than buy second hand cars so many go to the scrap yard well before they are knackered and most people own a car.

Maybe people and companies are beginning to see sense and happy to drive around in 5 or 10 year old cars and with the mayhem caused by the government and others few will be tempted by diesel

I remember as late as 1990 I bought a new Audi which came with a 3 year rust perforation warranty’. That’s perforation mind, it didnt cover surface rust.

For many years the 3 year buying cycle was fed by the fleet sector. When the government killed that, the manufacturers and finance companies rapidly put together finance schemes designed to embed a 3 year culture amongst private buyers - with considerable success it must be said

We are now seeing something of a hiatus. Diesel part X values have plummeted and buyers are very unclear which tech the6 should be embracing. I’m no doom and gloom merchant, but this could be a significant step towards the next recession.

 

[Ian J]

We are now seeing something of a hiatus. Diesel part X values have plummeted and buyers are very unclear which tech they should be embracing.

Plunging second hand values of diesels make it great for those happy to let others take the hit on new cars and buy them when a couple of years old.

The most pain is going to be suffered by Britain's largest motor manufacturer as most of the Land Rover models just don't make economic sense with anything other than diesel engines and it will also hurt Jaguar hard too.

 

[The Byre]

Jaguar is already hurting.

Some key points that seem to have been overlooked -

1. It is perfectly possible to build a clean Diesel. Of all the car makers, Volkswagen have several models that are very clean indeed. According to indi testing company Emission Analytics, there are 16 models of Diesel that rate an A+ in particulates and a 'Euro-6' in overall emissions.

2. Car makers are key employers and also bell-weathers of the economy in almost every EU country and beyond, yet cars are responsible for about half of the pollution created by all other forms of transport put together and even less than the generation of electricity.

3. The average passenger car in the US produces 260 pounds of pollution, the average SUV or pick-up 450. A truck produces nearly 2,000 lbs of pollution p.a.

4. Old trucks, busses etc. in the rest of Europe get pushed off to Eastern Europe when they get old and fall foul of local pollution laws. In the UK and Ireland, we keep them and therefore have a disproportionate number of older and more polluting trucks and busses.

5. Electric cars are just 14% efficient, meaning that 14% of the fuel used to create the electricity gets turned into forward motion (though 20% by the government's figures!) Petrol cars are c.a. 28% efficient and Diesel cars are c.a. 45% efficient.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Plunging second hand values of diesels make it great for those happy to let others take the hit on new cars and buy them when a couple of years old.

The most pain is going to be suffered by Britain's largest motor manufacturer as most of the Land Rover models just don't make economic sense with anything other than diesel engines and it will also hurt Jaguar hard too.

Yes. Shame. Whilst Land Rover definitely isn’t my thing, Jaguars are. I do think Tara have been doing a great job and are committed to UK manufacturing

 

[Mark T Jones]

I don't know how much sure is this information but I heard that in the future diesel cars will not be any more in the marketplace.
That they want to keep only the gas cars, hybrid, electric cars.

Some significant manufacturers like Toyota have already committed to ceasing diesel production

It’s a shame. As had been said, diesel can be clean but the political knee jerk will probably kill it for cars.

 

[Mr D]

I don't know how much sure is this information but I heard that in the future diesel cars will not be any more in the marketplace.
That they want to keep only the gas cars, hybrid, electric cars.

Hydrogen gas?

 

[Ian J]

As had been said, diesel can be clean but the political knee jerk will probably kill it for cars.

Porsche have taken the painful step (for them) of ceasing production of all diesel engine cars. Whilst the purist will say that a Porsche shouldn't have a diesel engine anyway the Cayennes and Macans have been the biggest sellers and the lack of a diesel option will damage those sales

 

[rf-harris]

I have a Toyota Corolla 2.0D and I am looking to either sell it or replace its engine with the petrol engine. WHAT SHOULD I DO?

 

[Mr D]

I have a Toyota Corolla 2.0D and I am looking to either sell it or replace its engine with the petrol engine. WHAT SHOULD I DO?

What do you want to do?

 

[Toby Willows]

I have a Toyota Corolla 2.0D and I am looking to either sell it or replace its engine with the petrol engine. WHAT SHOULD I DO?

Well you don’t replace the engine as that’ll almost certainly require a gearbox and clutch change as well. Silly idea!! Just px it for a petrol model. Or keep it until it dies a natural death.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Just carry on using it as normal, if you sell it you get really low price, by new you get no discount, keep it and its made no difference to your life and will last for 200,000 miles to give to your kids

 

[The Byre]

The whole discussion is 100% futile, as the Diesel oil/kerosene will get burnt anyway. When crude oil is 'cracked' the various component oils get produced, whether we use them or not, so if Diesel cars are forced off the roads, the cost of heating oil falls and more people will buy oil-fired CH.

If we tax Diesel/kerosene going one way, it becomes cheaper for the generation of electricity and gets burnt off in our back-yards another way.

And then we are back to electric cars and they use far more Diesel oil than a Diesel car - in fact just over three times as much Diesel is used by an electric car than a Diesel driven car, because we use kerosene to generate electricity and if we don't burn that off in Diesel cars, it will get burnt to make electricity.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Breakdown of power stations
Coal Powered 74
Gas Powered 41
Oil Powered 9
Petcoke powered 1

 

[Mark T Jones]

The whole discussion is 100% futile, as the Diesel oil/kerosene will get burnt anyway. When crude oil is 'cracked' the various component oils get produced, whether we use them or not, so if Diesel cars are forced off the roads, the cost of heating oil falls and more people will buy oil-fired CH.

I think the point there is that the top-level debate is misguided. At street level we are faced with a fierce backlash against diesel cars, will will fundamentally change how decisions are made and will undermine much of our motor industry.

Governments of all parties (and possibly worldwide) have an appalling record on environmental matters with almost no consistency and constant U-turns. Unfortunately in this case the economic consequences will be huge.

 

[The Byre]

Governments of all parties (and possibly worldwide) have an appalling record on environmental matters with almost no consistency and constant U-turns. Unfortunately in this case the economic consequences will be huge.

I have had to deal with politicians in the past and the one thing that stood out for me is the gross lack of understanding of how the laws of physics and economics work. I have even heard a politician state that we could send electricity from Scotland to Europe - oblivious to Jules Law and the laws of induction. That kind of self-inflicted stupidity is common.

Many of them just assume that there is some golden future just around the corner, in which batteries are small and light and can be charged in seconds. Either that or hydrogen will save us! They are all looking for those magic solutions - the one magic answer that will make all those difficult technical and economic relationships between the power industry, the oil industry and transport just go away!

 

[Ian J]

I have even heard a politician state that we could send electricity from Scotland to Europe

Would that be by tanker?

 

[The Byre]

In bags!

 

[Mr D]

I have had to deal with politicians in the past and the one thing that stood out for me is the gross lack of understanding of how the laws of physics and economics work. I have even heard a politician state that we could send electricity from Scotland to Europe - oblivious to Jules Law and the laws of induction. That kind of self-inflicted stupidity is common.

Many of them just assume that there is some golden future just around the corner, in which batteries are small and light and can be charged in seconds. Either that or hydrogen will save us! They are all looking for those magic solutions - the one magic answer that will make all those difficult technical and economic relationships between the power industry, the oil industry and transport just go away!

Unfortunately in the real world an answer often has lots of components and trade offs.
Over time I expect batteries will become smaller, lighter and hold more power. Look at the mobile phone talktime on a full charge 20 years ago compared to today. Look at laptops.
Heck, look at electric cars 110 years ago compared to today.

So over time I expect battery tech to improve. May be a while yet before we all have 100mw batteries installed at the side of the house.

 

[Mr D]

Would that be by tanker?

Probably the same way France and Netherlands sells electricity to the UK.

 

[The Byre]

Probably the same way France and Netherlands sells electricity to the UK.

There is one DC line from France, though the 'Nemo' project should soon add a second line from Kent to Zeebrucke and start trials in a year's time.

There is just one 400kV AC uninterrupted interconnect between Scotland and England and it is running at full capacity. Another older one runs as far as Newcastle.

The above map misses out the new Beauly-Denny line from the Highlands down to the Central Belt.

The Braess Paradox is the effect that adding capacity to a network results in a poorer connection, as bottlenecks help to regulate flow. The grid problems arise in part from the need to synchronise the generators and the grid supply.

Some additional links can decrease the total grid capacity, which can decrease or even destroy synchronisation in the entire grid and removing certain links may increase stability, just like removing certain roads can counter-intuitively decrease vehicle congestion.

If we go for an all-electric transport system, these problems will be coming out of our ears! The UK grid is still a hodge-podge of old systems and is in no way remotely capable of doubling capacity to take on electric cars over the next 20 years, unless we replace the entire system and more or less start again from scratch.

 

[Mr D]

Yes I understand there are problems adding capacity, adding in households selling electricity etc - using as you say a hodgepodge of systems. To be honest I am surprised its doing as well as it is over the past few decades.
Government imposes a cap on energy pricing, will the energy companies have ability to invest?

 

[sirearl]

Not sure the powers that Be are looking in the right area.

https://newatlas.com/shipping-pollution/11526/

 

[Ian J]

Not sure the powers that Be are looking in the right area.

I think that we all know that cars are only a small part of the problem yet every time the Chancellor stands up to punish diesel users he exempts buses and all other polluters too