Don't buy a Diesel car

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Mr D

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I think that we all know that cars are only a small part of the problem yet every time the Chancellor stands up to punish diesel users he exempts buses and all other polluters too

Considering some of the major users of fuel are ships & planes its probably a good idea he exempts them. We are on a group of islands. :)

Give it time the buses, vans and trucks will be driven off the road unless they are 'clean'.
A meaningless term in itself but good for media. And allows the politicians to look good regardless of the cost to others.
 
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Mr D

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Iceland, Norway and Sweden have unlimited potential for generating electricity from dams and waterfalls, geo-thermal turbines, etc.
They will be the first countries to completely change over to electric cars and trucks.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ed-road-for-charging-vehicles-opens-in-sweden

.

You mean in the same way the UK has unlimited potential for wind and wave power for generating electricity?
So why would we not be the first?
Dams are expensive and take time to build. How quickly can turbines be built and set up? How quickly could wave turbines be built and set up?
 
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D

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You mean in the same way the UK has unlimited potential for wind and wave power for generating electricity?
So why would we not be the first?
Dams are expensive and take time to build. How quickly can turbines be built and set up? How quickly could wave turbines be built and set up?


Wind power is erratic and constantly variable strength.
Wind blows some days, not others.
Some direction one day, not others.
Unreliable.

Wave power is erratic, constantly variable strength, depending on wind, and tides, and water depth, twice a day.
Expensive to build wave turbines, hard to get to, hard to maintain, hard to control.
Unreliable.

Dams and waterfalls supply constant, controllable water volume and velocity, all year round.
Geo-thermal turbines run using unlimited steam from deep in the ground.
Swapped out for a new replacement unit in one day.

Dams take two years to build, last for ever.
Free rocks and materials already right there at the site.
No maintenance needed.
.
 
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Chris Ashdown

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    Sea currents can supply regular power around the country, far more than windfarms and power known to the nearest 10 min after years of observations

    I wonder if the old coal mines which are extremely hot would pay the cost of pumping out the water to heat water in pipes to the surface and generate power, after all many grand houses are heated by pipes in shallow trenches and heat exchangers
     
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    Much uninformed and totally wild opinions here!

    This one is true -
    I think that we all know that cars are only a small part of the problem yet every time the Chancellor stands up to punish diesel users he exempts buses and all other polluters too
    But these are total nonsense -
    Diesel drivers are likely to pay bigger repair, because of the complexity of the engine and its components compared to petrol vehicles.
    Dams take two years to build, last for ever. Free rocks and materials already right there at the site. No maintenance needed.
    Dams take at least ten years to build and the UK has almost no dam building know-how. The Glendoe Dam at Loch Ness was built by the German company Hochtief and has required considerable maintenance and repairs in the few years it has been there.

    The UK has the highest tides in the World around the Severn Estuary. Tides are totally predicable and are as reliable as the movement of the moon.
    Sea currents can supply regular power around the country, far more than windfarms and power known to the nearest 10 min after years of observations.
    Actually, it is just seven minutes!

    The real problem is electricity supply. What exactly is going to happen when 20m cars are put on 'charge' at 7pm? Where is all this extra electric energy going to come from? Simple arithmetic tells me that we would require three times the generation capacity and double the grid capacity. The 'National Grid' in its present structure cannot be doubled and the generation of THREE TIMES what we use today would require a new and very large nuclear power station to be built in almost every county.

    Given the levels of environmental awareness (or NIMBY-ism, if you prefer) non of the above is going to happen. Nobody will want giant 400kV lines near their houses (the Beauly-Denny line was held up for years, as a result of protests) and the building of nuclear power stations takes about 25 years or more and even longer to dismantle.

    Putting a giant dam across the Severn Estuary could provide the South of England with much power, but would cause howls of anguish from all sides and take about 25 years to build.

    Given all the above, the wholesale move to electric cars cannot happen. Even if the load, poor efficiency rates and weight and size problems are solved, we cannot access the electricity.

    And before anybody starts shouting about hybrids, they use the same amount of fuel as regular cars. For example, the popular Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV claims some bonkers 150+ mpg, but the reality is (Emission Analytics figures for 2015+ models) 46mpg. That's a good figure for a Diesel SUV, but hardly groundbreaking - many Diesel-only SUVs use less!

    It's time we got real and started facing facts. There is no magic solution. Not electric. Hydrogen is still a few decades away.

    We have been sleep-walking into this problem for decades, caused almost entirely by idiot politicians refusing to see past their noses and the next election. The real problem is the massive pollution in cities. I don't live in a city - but those of you who do, will be choking to death on fumes from cars, trucks, busses, coal-fired power stations and trains.

    Our dirty trucks and busses cannot be sold off cheaply to Eastern Europe, as the steering wheel is on the wrong side and the government is refusing to grasp the nettle of forcing the issue.

    In the Winter of 1952-3 I experienced the Great London Smog in which 1,000 tonnes of smoke particles, 140 tonnes of hydrochloric acid, 14 tonnes of fluorine compounds, and 800 tonnes of sulphuric acid were poured into the London air EVERY DAY!

    Today, the pollutants are just as dangerous, but less visible - Enjoy!!!
     
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    Toby Willows

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    I wonder if the old coal mines which are extremely hot would pay the cost of pumping out the water to heat water in pipes to the surface and generate power, after all many grand houses are heated by pipes in shallow trenches and heat exchangers

    Private new builds these days (I think it’s pretty much nationwide now) have to use renewable heat sources, which commonly are air source (basically a back to front air con) or ground source (your underground puppies). Trouble is they require electricity to work, which like electric cars isn’t particularly “green”.

    Edit
    “puppies” should be “pipes” darn autocorrect, but I like the idea of underground puppies!
     
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    Mr D

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    Wind power is erratic and constantly variable strength.
    Wind blows some days, not others.
    Some direction one day, not others.
    Unreliable.

    Wave power is erratic, constantly variable strength, depending on wind, and tides, and water depth, twice a day.
    Expensive to build wave turbines, hard to get to, hard to maintain, hard to control.
    Unreliable.

    Dams and waterfalls supply constant, controllable water volume and velocity, all year round.
    Geo-thermal turbines run using unlimited steam from deep in the ground.
    Swapped out for a new replacement unit in one day.

    Dams take two years to build, last for ever.
    Free rocks and materials already right there at the site.
    No maintenance needed.
    .


    We have wind and we have tides. We don't have the same geographical features of those other countries, so use what we do have.

    Dams taking 2 years may happen in China, appear to take a fair bit longer and have people opposing such things in Europe.
    Oh and for the most part dams these days are built with reinforced concrete among other things, not many places have such material on site. Darn these foreigners who build concrete plants away from mountains eh?
     
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    The next Steve Jobs

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    The shipping industry is also being pressured to reduce emmisions, not just diesel cars ... sails are making a comeback and the crack down on invisible pollutants is increasing.

    EROEI energy return on energy invested is key to energy debates

    In a nutshell only Hydro has the 'energy density' to serve our modern energy world once the fossil/fissile reserves are used up.


    ULTIMATE ENERGY REALITY IS AS FOLLOWS

    ... and there isn't enough Hydro potential in the world to bridge the gap on a planet of 7 billion ... in the near future the only hi tech cities on earth will be found adjacent to hydro electric stations ... they are likley to be ports as well, energy from sea food, resources from trade ... it's allready possible to predict that future by looking at the world map today


    One can eternally debate emmisions, thorium, fusion, solar schmolar etc but ultimatley simple energy maths shows we are inevitably facing an energy descent from which there is no return...ever! ....laws of physics being the cosmic accountant we all must bow before.

    As ever the uninformed and vested interest wag fingers and wail the loudest but reality is as we humans find it, and its seldom as we wish it to be.

    The energy descent is flocking our way .... all mankind can do is soften the bump!

    ... as we approach the end of the fossil age the % of people who understand this fact rises


    In more detail
     
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    The next Steve Jobs

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    THE YEAR 1978

    THE SONG HEAVY HORSES




    Going long on horses ...

    5p carrier bag tax?
    Banning plastic straws ?
    ... signs of a government keen to distract


    The longer you vote for donkeys the quicker you will end up riding one!

    And that there ^ is the political quote of this century :rolleyes:
     
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    The only company left in Sunderland may be closing down.

    " Unite has been assured that any job reductions will be on a voluntary basis and on enhanced terms. "

    I don't understand. Demand for diesel cars may be slowing down but surely that doesn't affect the overall demand for cars and the cars made in Sunderland are available with petrol or hybrid engines.
     
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    I don't understand. Demand for diesel cars may be slowing down but surely that doesn't affect the overall demand for cars and the cars made in Sunderland are available with petrol or hybrid engines.

    It does affect overall demand because potential buyers lack confidence in which technology they. Should be embracing. Also their Px is worthless

    Coupled with this is a Europe wide over supply of new cars
     
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    BTW, sales of cars (January 17 to J.18) across the EU and EFTA rose by nearly 7% and China rose by nearly 12%. The decline in sales in the UK by a massive 12% is totally due to the politically generated uncertainty caused by the government on three fronts - firstly customers just do not know which way to turn - Diesel is now out, but electric cars are not really an alternative, yet petrol is too expensive to run. The answer is to wait.

    Secondly, the uncertainly caused by Brexit has not helped, though most observers discount this as having a major effect.

    Thirdly, austerity and poor national economic performance have depressed real wages.

    There has been a noticeable move to perceived quality, so Nissan fell by 35%, Vauxhall by 18%, Ford by 22%, the whole VW group fell by only 1% and Porche was able to book a 10% increase. Mercedes on the other hand lost nearly 7%.

    Anecdotal evidence from car salesmen suggests that the UK figures may even be worse than the above figures, as those are generated by registrations and franchises are being pressured to self-register to boost the numbers. Salesmen also report a significant fall in leasing renewals, as people regroup and re-assess their finances.
     
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    Mr D

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    The only company left in Sunderland may be closing down.

    " Unite has been assured that any job reductions will be on a voluntary basis and on enhanced terms. "

    Is this sentence a long word that actually means .... " Sacked " ?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...erland-plant-demand-diesel-cars-plummets.html


    Pretty sure Sunderland has more than one company. A quick google search suggests that yes they do indeed have a GP surgery. They even have a McDonalds. Two companies there, likely a few more I haven't bothered looking up.

    And a company closing down would not make that kind of assurance to the union. Voluntary basis and shutting down don't usually go together.
     
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    Time to buy a near new Diesel car for little money!

    I am hoping to change my car in three to four months and was intending to go the second hand route for the first time in many years.

    I had a Tesla S at the top of my wishlist but have concerns that Tesla are manipulating the prices as the price for a three year old car hasn't gone down in the last ten months and I have a sneaking suspicion that prices will suddenly crash as more mainstream manufacturers bring their EV cars on stream.

    One of the other two cars that I fancy is a hybrid so I suppose that will give me the best of both worlds as research tells me that real world figures of 45-50mpg are attainable
     
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    I am hoping to change my car in three to four months and was intending to go the second hand route for the first time in many years.
    SNIP
    One of the other two cars that I fancy is a hybrid so I suppose that will give me the best of both worlds as research tells me that real world figures of 45-50mpg are attainable
    Mercedes E-Class Diesel Hybrid. Super quiet, comfortable, very reliable (given the high mileages these things are expected to do!) and does 52mpg in 'The Real World'.

    They also do petrol hybrids, but I don't have any mpg figures for those.

    Expect to pay c.a. £20k for a low mileage 2015. Make sure the sat-nav is up-to-date and get it checked out fully, inc. the air-con.

    TUV figures for reliability show then coming in at position 34, despite the fact that they are the classic business car and cover roughly double the average mileage. Despite covering double the mileages, they show fewer faults than Toyota Auris or a Honda Jazz.

    From 1995 to about 2010, Mercedes completely lost the plot and built really bad cars. They have almost completely turned the ship around and are building decent cars again!
     
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    And it's Bosch - the company that created the software that cheats the emissions tests.

    Let's be clear about this - products today are built to pass tests and not to be specifically and genuinely safe or healthy or whatever the test is for. That 5-star NCAP rated car may even be a death trap, that Mitsubishi Outlander that does 153mpg only does 46 or 38mpg in reality (depending on model). All those healthy foods you eat can have a deadly cocktail of permitted chemicals in them.

    There are about 20 safe cars on the road, the rest can and do kill their occupants and/or other road users.

    Volvo XC90
    Audi A4/A5/A6
    Volvo V70/S80/V60/S60
    VW Passat
    Mercedes E-Class
    Mercedes C-Class
    BMW 5-series
    BMW 3-series
    Volvo XC60
    Honda CRV
    Mitsubishi Carisma
    VW Golf/Jetta

    According to road accident statistics collected by the Swedish insurance company Folksam, you should pick one of the above. They are listed in order of safety.
     
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    And it's Bosch - the company that created the software that cheats the emissions tests.

    Let's be clear about this - products today are built to pass tests and not to be specifically and genuinely safe or healthy or whatever the test is for. That 5-star NCAP rated car may even be a death trap, that Mitsubishi Outlander that does 153mpg only does 46 or 38mpg in reality (depending on model). All those healthy foods you eat can have a deadly cocktail of permitted chemicals in them.

    There are about 20 safe cars on the road, the rest can and do kill their occupants and/or other road users.

    Volvo XC90
    Audi A4/A5/A6
    Volvo V70/S80/V60/S60
    VW Passat
    Mercedes E-Class
    Mercedes C-Class
    BMW 5-series
    BMW 3-series
    Volvo XC60
    Honda CRV
    Mitsubishi Carisma
    VW Golf/Jetta

    According to road accident statistics collected by the Swedish insurance company Folksam, you should pick one of the above. They are listed in order of safety.

    So how is it that the Volvo XC90 has the second highest accident rate in the U.K.,as do many other cars on that list?

    No SUV can be considered a safe car,especially for other road users,hence why they are classed as light goods vehicles in the US.
     
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    So how is it that the Volvo XC90 has the second highest accident rate in the U.K.,as do many other cars on that list?
    The rate of accidents and the safety features of the car are two completely different things. You may even argue that knowing that you are in an incredibly 'safe' car that will see that you are OK after going off the road at 150mph could make the driver take additional risks.

    My point was that NCAP tests only test two types of collision, so most manufacturers design cars that pass those two collision tests, but fail to protect occupants from other types of accidents.

    The same with mileage and emissions tests. The cars are built to pass those tests, not to be genuinely clean or frugal with fuel.

    The same goes for electric cars. Zero emissions at the tail-pipe, but one of the dirtiest and most wasteful ways of moving about!
     
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    There are about 20 safe cars on the road, the rest can and do kill their occupants and/or other road users.

    BMW 5-series
    BMW 3-series

    According to road accident statistics collected by the Swedish insurance company Folksam, you should pick one of the above. They are listed in order of safety.

    Great. I have the one in the middle that wasn't mentioned :(
     
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    Great. I have the one in the middle that wasn't mentioned :(
    They can only give safety figures for cars that have had a statistically significant number of major accidents! The same applies to the TUV reliability tests - no figures for Rolls Royce, Bentley or any other exotica, as they need at least 500 road-worthiness tests to come to a figure.

    So we can conclude that either there are loads of Volvos in Sweden, or that Volvo drivers are dangerous idiots.

    Or both!
     
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    Chris Ashdown

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    To state that Audi, BMW and Mercedes are safe cars make a mockery of the way they are driven in the UK, only cars your cannot identify from the front as they are 2 feet off your rear bumper most of the time until 20 metres clear road in front and they then overtake to test your breaking skills.

    It would be nice if the insurance industry rated every accident with injury sustained, per thousand registered cars of that model; and damage to car is some format ,so we could judge the safety stats of each model
     
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    The insurance companies have every possible type of statistic, but they keep the details to themselves, as that is their comparative advantage over the competition. Even colour of car and of course where you live, as well as credit rating, age, profession (claim to be a builder, don't tell them you are an accountant and definitely never admit to being a financial adviser!) is taken into account, as well as the type and model of car.

    The cars models above are listed according to passive safety and of course not how they are driven.
     
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    Mr D

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    The same goes for electric cars. Zero emissions at the tail-pipe, but one of the dirtiest and most wasteful ways of moving about!

    As of course are electric scooters, electric wheelchairs and manual wheelchairs with a motorised front wheel.
    Rather less efficient than cars, what with much lower R&D spend and much greater weight issue.
     
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