Doing biz with a Nigerian client - what are the risks

[Sparklez35]

Well its my Husband.

He has been approached to do some IT work to build an online CRM system for them, but the client is from Nigeria. He has met the client in the UK a few months ago to discuss job specifications. The job will be priced about £12K.

There are lots of horror stories about Nigerian money scams involving bank transfers, and we would like to avoid the pitfalls.

They have asked for bank details, account number and a sort code to make an advance deposit in respect for starting work. We are planning to provide a bank account number that has no balance (without telling them its zero) and we will move the money to another account when its clear.

What can a Nigerian do with an English bank account number and a sort code? Is this safe?

 

[sysops]

Bank account details (number and sort code) are not secure data. There is nothing anyone can do with them that could possibly harm you.

(before anyone starts on about direct debit - the DD Guarantee means that you are 100% protected)

 

[Faevilangel]

Bank account details (number and sort code) are not secure data. There is nothing anyone can do with them that could possibly harm you.

(before anyone starts on about direct debit - the DD Guarantee means that you are 100% protected)

Yup sysops is right, the only thing they can do is start a direct debit on the account, but under the dd guarantee you're protected.

Jeremy clarkson found that out when he published his bank details in a national newspaper.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7174760.stm

 

[Sparklez35]

Doesnt the client need an originators code to do a direct debit? Theres no UK address for the client.

 

[Astaroth]

Look at the bottom of your cheques, each one has all this information on. Without being able to answer security questions the only thing they can do with it is deposit money into your bank. If the money is coming from overseas however they should also be asking for the swift/ routing code.

The Nigerian Scam is traditionally the "I am dying and what you to administer my £10m estate for good will and you can keep 10% for doing it" type thing.... there are a lot of legitimate business people there too

 

[Wallpaper]

Bank account details (number and sort code) are not secure data. There is nothing anyone can do with them that could possibly harm you.

Not on their own but they are used to aid a fraudster build a bigger picture of your profile.

 

[sysops]

Not on their own but they are used to aid a fraudster build a bigger picture of your profile.

Nebulous scaremongering nonsense.

Give me an example.

 

[Sparklez35]

The Nigerian Scam is traditionally the "I am dying and what you to administer my £10m estate for good will and you can keep 10% for doing it" type thing.... there are a lot of legitimate business people there too

Its nothing like that, but they seem too keen to place deposits in a UK account.

I am growing more & more supicious of this client, their emails are sent from a blackberry, their domain name is registered a private individual in Nigeria and the UK location where my husband met the client was - wait for it - a rented bedsit in Dulwich!!

We are perplexed why they dont go to an IT firm in Asia (much much cheaper) or outsource it on places that offer safe escrow services such as vworker.com.

 

[Herbie]

My only advice is..ask for all you money to be paid upfront or at east 50% minimum.

 

[sysops]

Its nothing like that, but they seem too keen to place deposits in a UK account.

I am growing more & more supicious of this client, their emails are sent from a blackberry, their domain name is registered a private individual in Nigeria and the UK location where my husband met the client was - wait for it - a rented bedsit in Dulwich!!

We are perplexed why they dont go to an IT firm in Asia (much much cheaper) or outsource it on places that offer safe escrow services such as vworker.com.

If it smells fishy then there could well be a problem, but as I said, supplying your account number and sort code will not give them any leverage.

 

[papverpoppies]

Well its my Husband.

He has been approached to do some IT work to build an online CRM system for them, but the client is from Nigeria. He has met the client in the UK a few months ago to discuss job specifications. The job will be priced about £12K.

There are lots of horror stories about Nigerian money scams involving bank transfers, and we would like to avoid the pitfalls.

They have asked for bank details, account number and a sort code to make an advance deposit in respect for starting work. We are planning to provide a bank account number that has no balance (without telling them its zero) and we will move the money to another account when its clear.

What can a Nigerian do with an English bank account number and a sort code? Is this safe?

I think this is often a way to money launder, they cannot open accounts for themselves so they use bonafide accounts, and then buy things with the hookey money they have deposited and then scarper.

Also Fraudsters are pretty hot at the moment on altering cheque micro-lines. They know exactly where to bank them to initiate a fraud.

Although you would be covered via your bank if this did happen, its best not to, if you do not have to.

I am not sure I would have attended a meeting in a bedsit (did Hubby go alone)?

Good Luck

Poppy xx

Poppy xx

 

[Sparklez35]

Client now wants another meeting.. My Husband is going to quote high with 50% in advance and 50% half way though the job, about £8-9000.00 GBP.

He will contract it all out to an IT firm in Chennai India, someone he knows very well. They'll get the job done for under £400 UK pounds priced in Rupees.

We are baffled why the client doesnt just go to India? its not a secret to outsource IT work there, we do it all the time.

 

[Sparklez35]

I think this is often a way to money launder, they cannot open accounts for themselves so they use bonafide accounts, and then buy things with the hookey money they have deposited and then scarper.

Also Fraudsters are pretty hot at the moment on altering cheque micro-lines. They know exactly where to bank them to initiate a fraud.

We are not intending to send or receive a cheque, the Nigerian travellers cheque scam method is known to us. Once the money is deposited via BACS, we will move it and inform the bank to stop any DD's on the account if one is attempted.

Although you would be covered via your bank if this did happen, its best not to, if you do not have to.

Agreed.

I am not sure I would have attended a meeting in a bedsit (did Hubby go alone)?

We didnt know the address was a bedsit, but he did find it rather odd. It was a clean room with a kithcenette, a lady in a cheap biz suit a laptop, nothing else. She phoned us last night at 10pm. All very strange.

I wondered if anyone else has has such a strange experience.

 

[drounding]

Personally I'd just walk away from this and leave well alone.

 

[papverpoppies]

Client now wants another meeting.. My Husband is going to quote high with 50% in advance and 50% half way though the job, about £8-9000.00 GBP.

He will contract it all out to an IT firm in Chennai India, someone he knows very well. They'll get the job done for under £400 UK pounds priced in Rupees.

We are baffled why the client doesnt just go to India? its not a secret to outsource IT work there, we do it all the time.

If this sounds hooky, then it probably is.
In truth, why would anyone pay those prices if they can get the job done for the price you state.

Why can the person not come to your Husbands office, why a bedsit, who conducts a business deal in this manner?

I really cannot see any genuine business person acting in this manner, and also requesting your bank details, sorry but why would they act like this, if they are above board.

Any company paperwork you can check - remember even the Government over their have been known to cover up scams!

Poppy xx

 

[oldeagleeye]

Bank account details (number and sort code) are not secure data. There is nothing anyone can do with them that could possibly harm you.

(before anyone starts on about direct debit - the DD Guarantee means that you are 100% protected)

Absolute bull shite Sysops. Bank sort cose and account number can be used to help ID fraud because it makes say an say a bogus email look genuine. All you then need to do is provoke a response and your got the pin number too.

As for the DD. You try getting one stopped if it's payable to the likes of Virgin Media and especially if it's on your plastic account. The banks will tell you that they can't cancel . That Virgin have to do that and will they without threatening to sue. Hell no. I know I have been there.

As for Nigeria. India used to be known as the most corrupt country in the world and right up to politician level. Now it's Nigeria and the number of scams they get up to is endless.

We even had a guy from Nigeria post in the forum a few days ago. He claimed to be some sort of Business Angel with pots of money for starts-ups. In reality he was an amatur football coach or so he claimed on his blog and guess what. Right at the top was in effect a begging letter that no-one had sent him any presents. Fortunately our mod spotted the post as a scam and quickly withdrew it.

Stay well - well away from Nigeria then and you should know better OP if your into web design. Someone prepared to pay £12.500 for a simple CRM site . Yea they were the days. The Asians and Chinese will do it for less than a grand these days.

r

 

[sysops]

Absolute bull shite Sysops. Bank sort cose and account number can be used to help ID fraud because it makes say an sauy email look genuine. All you then need to do is provoke a response and your got the pin number too.

Oh come on - you give away those pieces of information every time you hand over a cheque!

 

[papverpoppies]

Absolute bull shite Sysops. Bank sort cose and account number can be used to help ID fraud because it makes say an say a bogus email look genuine. All you then need to do is provoke a response and your got the pin number too.

As for the DD. You try getting one stopped if it's payable to the likes of Virgin Media and especially if it's on your plastic account. The banks will tell you that they can't cancel . That Virgin have to do that and will they without threatening to sue. Hell no. I know I have been there.

As for Nigeria. India used to be known as the most corrupt country in the world and right up to politician level. Now it's Nigeria and the number of scams they get up to is endless.

We even had a guy from Nigeria post in the forum a few days ago. He claimed to be some sort of Business Angel with pots of money for starts-ups. In reality he was an amatur football coach or so he claimed on his blog and guess what. Right at the top was in effect a begging letter that no-one had sent him any presents. Fotunately our mod spotted the post as sacm quickly and withdrew it.

Stay well - well away from Nigeria the and you should know better OP. Someone prepared to pay £12.500 for a simple CRM site . Yea they were the days. The Asians and Chinese will do it for less than a grand these days.

r

OP try getting a DD stopped that you have not initiated.

I was told I had to obtain a written statement from the company (hello what company, they did not exist) that they would stop taking money from my account, as I had not authorised it.

Sounds easy peasy to write we will just stop and DD - aint necessarily so!
Perhaps you have a more understanding bank!

Poppy xx

 

[sjr4x4]

Getting paid £8k revenue for £400 outlay, clients fly to UK for meetings in bedsits, and the clients are Nigerian based.

Just read that back, and then ask yourself if you think the deal is hooky

The potential of a quick buck is over ruling your gut instinct.

Or greed versus common sense :redface:

 

[papverpoppies]

Oh come on - you give away those pieces of information every time you hand over a cheque!

This maybe so...but would you hand over your details based on what the OP has written, I know I would not.

These people are not stupid,(far from it) why would they pay crazy prices for a job they could get at a fraction of the price - why come here to source the work?

Poppy xx

 

[oldeagleeye]

Few people take cheques these day and certainly not your local supermarket. Nevertheless Sysobs if you want to give your bank details to the Nigerians I suggest you visit the embaasy in Knightsbridge in London.

You can't miss it A few nice Mers oustside courtesy of of Commonwealth Office and most of the embassy staff will be outside buying old Datsuns to ship home and make a huge profit. Mind you I bet a pound to a penny there is the odd nicked Porche that goes into those containers too. I understand arround 3 a week are shipped.

Get real mate. Id fraud is a major crime.

 

[sysops]

This maybe so...but would you hand over your details based on what the OP has written, I know I would not.

I think it does sound very sus, but handing over your account number and sort code will make no difference.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Having worked for many years in Nigeria, it's a scam somewhere along the line or a money laundering exercise for them

Having said that if you want to take a gamble, can you open a new account and instruct the bank that only yourself can have access and absolutly no dd's or any other form of transfering money can be taken unless you are present in the bank at the time

Failing that ask to be paid by Western Union money transfer

 

[Sparklez35]

As for the DD. You try getting one stopped if it's payable to the likes of Virgin Media and especially if it's on your plastic account. The banks will tell you that they can't cancel . That Virgin have to do that and will they without threatening to sue. Hell no. I know I have been there.

You are right, about 6 years ago I cancelled a Sky DD on a credit card. I couldnt, so we cancelled the card, the credit card company opened a new credit card account in my name with a debit balance. Natrually we no longer have Egg or Sky TV anymore.

As for Nigeria. India used to be known as the most corrupt country in the world and right up to politician level. Now it's Nigeria and the number of scams they get up to is endless.

We even had a guy from Nigeria post in the forum a few days ago. He claimed to be some sort of Business Angel with pots of money for starts-ups. In reality he was an amatur football coach or so he claimed on his blog and guess what. Right at the top was in effect a begging letter that no-one had sent him any presents. Fortunately our mod spotted the post as a scam and quickly withdrew it.

Stay well - well away from Nigeria then and you should know better OP if your into web design. Someone prepared to pay £12.500 for a simple CRM site . Yea they were the days. The Asians and Chinese will do it for less than a grand these days.

My thoughts likewise.

OTOH, if we accept a £6000 deposit BACS'd to an empty account to start work and move the money, then move the money, then wait for the request for a refund, they say they have overpaid or try a direct debit. We would still have their 6-grand and they would have their CRM system built in Chennai which cost us just £500.

 

[Sparklez35]

can you open a new account and instruct the bank that only yourself can have access and absolutly no dd's or any other form of transfering money can be taken unless you are present in the bank at the time

We have such an account ready and waiting.

Failing that ask to be paid by Western Union money transfer

Right, I know little what Western Union is about. How could using it benefit us? Do we need a Western Union account.

 

[Sparklez35]

These people are not stupid,(far from it) why would they pay crazy prices for a job they could get at a fraction of the price - why come here to source the work?

It could be they dont know it can be done in Chennai. The Nigerian client is not in IT and doesnt know our suppliers or who we outsource work to.

 

[papverpoppies]

It could be they dont know it can be done in Chennai. The Nigerian client is not in IT and doesnt know our suppliers or who we outsource work to.

Do you honestly think that anyone would pay those prices?
The Nigerians are not the naive ones here!

As the meeting was in a bedsit, one would suspect they are not from the UK, and just use cheap rentals where they can conduct their so called business meetings.

As you Husband does not seemed to have told them to take a hike, they are moving onto phase 2!

I bet you have won the Nigerian lottery, or someone you never knew has died and left you pots and pots of money..

There was someone one on here a few months ago, had a request for one of their paintings, same MO, when they started to ask the 'wrong' questions, the so called potential buyer did a runner.

Poppy xx

 

[Sparklez35]

Allright, you have convinced me. I'll hear them out when they speak by telephone at 7.30pm this evening.

Unless something genuine comes about, I think we should kill it.

 

[Sparklez35]

Does anyone think the Police should be informed?

 

[deniser]

Does anyone think the Police should be informed?

No, why, no crime has been committed.

 

[Astaroth]

why would they pay crazy prices for a job they could get at a fraction of the price - why come here to source the work?

Because maybe it isn't a crazy price?

The UK has a good reputation for programming but it is well known the prices here are much higher than in a 3rd world country.

Why do people pay us$1500 for a website by a UK based company when there are forums you can go on and get a website built for sub us$50?? I would imagine a large proportion of users of this site have spent a hell of a lot more money that it COULD be done for via offshoring. The reality is that finding good off shore companies are difficult, managing them are difficult etc etc. Even organisations that we have worked with that own their own offshore and onshore operations have issues with their off shore colleagues.

As to Sky DD on a credit card - you cannot have DD on a credit card, it only applies to current account. On a credit card you give continuous payment authority which is a totally different beast. DD has an explicit set of rules which the bank must follow (though sometimes you have to remind them of them).

Whilst I would be cautious with any overseas client I dont think my paranoia is anywhere near as bad as others on here and we have certainly built high cost projects with others overseas, not nigeria but certainly other "hot spots" with no issues what so ever.

 

[Sparklez35]

No, why, no crime has been committed.

The police is all about crime prevention.

 

[Astaroth]

It is highly likely the police will tell you they aren't interested in investigating if someone from outside the EU may be attempting to commit fraud.... most police will not get involved in fraud at all and allow the banks to do the investigating and await them to recommend to the police if to prosecute or not.

 

[S-Marketing]

If you feel the need to go on to a forum to ask if a deal is dodgy, you have answered your own question.

 

[Sparklez35]

We have not experienced this before, wanted to know other peoples experiences.

 

[S-Marketing]

We have not experienced this before, wanted to know other peoples experiences.

My opinion, for what its worth. If you are suspicious enough to ask us what we think, you are suspicious enough to walk away. All depends how much you need the money I suppose.

You see it all the time on the telly when someone falls for a scam, they say 'yeh, I thought it was a bit odd at the time'.

If you want to be more analytical about it, sum it up from a risk/ reward point of view. Although from what I have read you dont actually know what the risks are.

 

[Wallpaper]

Nebulous scaremongering nonsense.

Give me an example.

If you're that confident post up your bank details, name, home address & date of Birth and we can all have some fun.

 

[deniser]

The website transaction between you and them may be quite legitimate as far as they are intending to pay you to set up a website and it has nothing to do with any kind of banking/fee scam.

But the website itself may then be used to give credence to a business which itself is fraudulent. You wouldn't know that it without doing some detective work.

I would give this job a miss.

 

[deniser]

The police is all about crime prevention.

LOL. When it comes to fraud - no chance even after the crime has been committed!

 

[Wallpaper]

If it smells fishy then there could well be a problem, but as I said, supplying your account number and sort code will not give them any leverage.

You're incredibly naive if you believe this to be the case. Supplying your account number and sort code to someone with this sort of background will be another link in the chain.