Diabetes

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Blaby Loyal

Out of the blue I have been diagnosed with Type-2 diabetes.

My first appointment with the diabetic nurse (I'm sure it should actually be the diabetes nurse!) was OK and I'm going to try and bring it under control with dietary changes plus meds if needed (insulin not mentioned).

The problem I have with the dietary changes is that it primarily requires cutting out biscuits, cakes, sugar in drinks, fizzy drinks etc. and to eat more fruit and vegetables. Well, because of something else wot is wrong with me I do all that anyway. The only thing I can change is bread (from white to seeded granary stuff) but I can't imagine that on its own is going to achieve the results needed.

Any tips/comments from other sufferers?
 

estwig

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Changing bread won't do anything, still the same carbs, just more fibre.

Can be a lot of sugar in fruit (fructose), could be putting your blood sugars up, lot of carbs in potatoes too. Most people don't understand the 3 basic food groups, macros, you're probably eating a lot more sugar in the form of carbs than you realise.

Get a dietician, or spend time learning.

Sorry to hear you have diabetes, I don't I'm sickeningly healthy, mainly because I understand food. Knowledge is power.
 
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Blaby Loyal

Thanks estwig. I used to do a lot of weightlifting (not bodybuilding) so know more than the average Joe Smoke about food groups, complex carbs etc that's why the diagnosis has hit me pretty hard.

Time to hit the research and see where it all goes from here.
 
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Newchodge

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    Did you raise that issue with the diabetic nurse? Presumably she has the job as she understands the illness, having it herself. :p

    Sorry about your diagnosis, but you don't have to let it control you. Good luck
     
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    Blaby Loyal

    Did you raise that issue with the diabetic nurse? Presumably she has the job as she understands the illness, having it herself. :p

    Sorry about your diagnosis, but you don't have to let it control you. Good luck

    Thanks but I fear that it'll be a hoop-jumping, box-ticking process which can't be shortened just because I say that I'm doing this, that and the other already.
     
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    Robert Meredith

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    Out of the blue I have been diagnosed with Type-2 diabetes.

    My first appointment with the diabetic nurse (I'm sure it should actually be the diabetes nurse!) was OK and I'm going to try and bring it under control with dietary changes plus meds if needed (insulin not mentioned).

    The problem I have with the dietary changes is that it primarily requires cutting out biscuits, cakes, sugar in drinks, fizzy drinks etc. and to eat more fruit and vegetables. Well, because of something else wot is wrong with me I do all that anyway. The only thing I can change is bread (from white to seeded granary stuff) but I can't imagine that on its own is going to achieve the results needed.

    Any tips/comments from other sufferers?

    I am 5 years down the road.......................

    Seems to me that if you want to avoid the drugs (metformin rpobably?) then the only things are exercise, weight loss and low carbs.

    Unfortunately pasta, bread, rice etc just turn into sugar as soon as you eat them!

    So no sugar at all. And not much carbs! Protein, fat and loads of vegetables! I eat some beans like butter beans to fill it out a bit.

    Good luck.
     
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    Robert Meredith

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    Where do you get your energy from then with no sugar and pretty much the same for carbs?

    I think there is plenty of evidence these days that you don't need as much carbs as you think....

    The body can use other stuff for energy. Takes a bit of getting used to but there are plenty of people living on less than 100 grammes of carbs a day.

    Or another way of thinking about it. How did eskimos survive on a diet of fat and protein? In fact how did people exist thousands of years ago before there was bread, pasta or rice?!

    The nhs advice to eat loads of carbs may have something to do with the rise in diabetes.....!

    Protein, fat and lots of vegetables!
     
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    Excellent - thanks for that. Will definitely see what's involved.

    I do phases of Keto, and I come from a weightlifting (powerlifting actually) background myself, and always use Keto to burn a bit of fat, lose some unwanted weight, and I find it absolutely amazing. It is so effective, and very enjoyable.

    To get into full Ketosis, I go for less than 10g of carbs per day. This will vary from person to person. Add loads of nice fats to your diet - fattier meats such as duck, lamb, and a tonne of eggs and you're away. So good.
     
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    The nhs advice to eat loads of carbs may have something to do with the rise in diabetes.....!

    There's that yes, but then there's also the issue of the American sugar association bribing scientists to publish results that blamed saturated fat for heart disease (see link).

    Your body can use fat as a fuel much more effectively than it can use sugar. There are many added benefits in cutting sugar (not just the spoonfuls in your tea, the carbs as well), for example cancer cells burn glycogen as fuel.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html
     
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    Robert Meredith

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    I do phases of Keto, and I come from a weightlifting (powerlifting actually) background myself, and always use Keto to burn a bit of fat, lose some unwanted weight, and I find it absolutely amazing. It is so effective, and very enjoyable.

    To get into full Ketosis, I go for less than 10g of carbs per day. This will vary from person to person. Add loads of nice fats to your diet - fattier meats such as duck, lamb, and a tonne of eggs and you're away. So good.

    The only problem I find is sleeping on very low carbs! I used to be a carb addict............ toast and cereal before bed makes you sleepy!!
     
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    The only problem I find is sleeping on very low carbs! I used to be a carb addict............ toast and cereal before bed makes you sleepy!!

    Interesting. I've never had a problem with that. In fact, I probably sleep better because I don't wake up hungry and craving carbs!
    I would go keto all the time except that I find when I don't use carbs, I'm wasting my time lifting weights at the gym. We're all different though.

    I know that if I need to lose weight, I can drop a stone in 1 month on keto. Too easy.
     
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    Robert Meredith

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    There's that yes, but then there's also the issue of the American sugar association bribing scientists to publish results that blamed saturated fat for heart disease (see link).

    Your body can use fat as a fuel much more effectively than it can use sugar. There are many added benefits in cutting sugar (not just the spoonfuls in your tea, the carbs as well), for example cancer cells burn glycogen as fuel.

    I totally agree. I was just not swinging into total rant mode!!

    It's no coincidence that obesity and diabetes have shot up since the low fat myth started. Ancel Keys has a lot to answer for.
     
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    Robert Meredith

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    Yep - big fan of eggs.

    I've pulled my Weider bench out of the garage today as well. Bought it in June 1984 with some of my first wage packet. Still good after all these years (unlike me!)

    I eat four eggs a day. When I was originally diagnosed I went from 100kg to 85kg. Four eggs a day. Cholesterol plummeted! Got a lecture from my GP about eating too much protein!! Moved GPs.......
     
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    Mr D

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    I totally agree. I was just not swinging into total rant mode!!

    It's no coincidence that obesity and diabetes have shot up since the low fat myth started. Ancel Keys has a lot to answer for.

    The hospital doctors gave me a diet sheet last year and told me to stick to it. I gave it back and pointed out to them I was already following all that and had been for years. Including far healthier stuff than the hospital food, my food is cooked and edible.
     
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    I totally agree. I was just not swinging into total rant mode!!

    No nor I! Its just dangerous getting me started on this stuff!

    Cholesterol plummeted! Got a lecture from my GP about eating too much protein!! Moved GPs.......

    GPs can absolutely <<< Don't swear or Don't post>>> with that stuff. They know nothing about diet and nutrition - sorry that's a generalisation of course - there are some that do.

    But the advice that high cholesterol should mean you cut down on dietary cholesterol? Why??? Dietary cholesterol doesn't change your blood cholesterol even slightly! All it will do is inhibit hormone production.
    And then there's the myth that too much salt causes hypertension...
     
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    Robert Meredith

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    No nor I! Its just dangerous getting me started on this stuff!



    GPs can absolutely F*** off with that stuff. They know nothing about diet and nutrition - sorry that's a generalisation of course - there are some that do.

    But the advice that high cholesterol should mean you cut down on dietary cholesterol? Why??? Dietary cholesterol doesn't change your blood cholesterol even slightly! All it will do is inhibit hormone production.
    And then there's the myth that too much salt causes hypertension...

    I thought you said you weren't going to rant.....

    Anyway my hba1c had crept up to 7 last time. So I am on a mission at the moment! Back in soon for a retest!
     
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    fisicx

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    No bread, rice, pasta or potatoes. Avoid red meat and anything processed (cheese, sauces etc). A couple of beers and some chocolate once a week is OK. Eat lots of green veg, fish and white meat. Watch what fruits you eat - some are loaded with sugar. Do lots of walking, cycling and swimming.

    I managed just with the diet for 5 years but it slowly got worse and now I'm on 4 types of drugs.

    Type 2 creeps up on you. You feel fine and think there is nothing wrong, ignore all the advice then it can suddenly all go pete tong and you end up with gout, gangrene, kidney failure, blindness and so on. But stick the right diet and take your pills and you will be OK.
     
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    Robert Meredith

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    No bread, rice, pasta or potatoes. Avoid red meat and anything processed (cheese, sauces etc). A couple of beers and some chocolate once a week is OK. Eat lots of green veg, fish and white meat. Watch what fruits you eat - some are loaded with sugar. Do lots of walking, cycling and swimming.

    I managed just with the diet for 5 years but it slowly got worse and now I'm on 4 types of drugs.

    Type 2 creeps up on you. You feel fine and think there is nothing wrong, ignore all the advice then it can suddenly all go pete tong and you end up with gout, gangrene, kidney failure, blindness and so on. But stick the right diet and take your pills and you will be OK.

    Gotta add some fat into that......

    Drink olive oil? Almonds. Eggs.
     
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    Mr D

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    No bread, rice, pasta or potatoes. Avoid red meat and anything processed (cheese, sauces etc). A couple of beers and some chocolate once a week is OK. Eat lots of green veg, fish and white meat. Watch what fruits you eat - some are loaded with sugar. Do lots of walking, cycling and swimming.

    I managed just with the diet for 5 years but it slowly got worse and now I'm on 4 types of drugs.

    Type 2 creeps up on you. You feel fine and think there is nothing wrong, ignore all the advice then it can suddenly all go pete tong and you end up with gout, gangrene, kidney failure, blindness and so on. But stick the right diet and take your pills and you will be OK.

    For those who like a challenge, rather than buying sauces try making some.
    Multiple books and sites have sauce recipes and can do variations to include more or less of some ingredients.

    Any fans of the manly art of burning meat with a beer nearby? Known in some areas as barbecue?
    Some great marinade sauces and dipping sauces to try making.

    Diet does not have to be tasteless, can experiment and do quite a bit. Even processed stuff can be nice when you control the process.
     
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    fisicx

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    For those who like a challenge, rather than buying sauces try making some.
    Yup, that's what I do.

    It's the stuff you get from the Supermarket that you sohuldn't eat - one of the dolmio sauces has got 40% sugar!
     
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    fisicx

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    Drink olive oil? Almonds. Eggs.
    Cook with the oil, eat the nuts after meals, 1 egg per day

    When you meet the diabetics nurse you will get loads of docs listing all the stuff you can and can't eat.

    You will soon learn what you can't eat because you will feel yuk afterwards.

    And you will soon be needing naps in the afternoon.
     
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    Awinner2

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    20 years since my Type 2 diabetes confirmed. Initially diet controlled then that needed metformin added in then after 6 years needed insulin. GP added low dose aspirin, statin, blood pressure lowering etc. All works confirmed by my 6 monthly blood checks. 12 month ago I bought the book " The Pioppi Diet" a lifestyle plan. Full of useful information, some of which I was aware of and much new ideas. I have adjusted my eating over the 12 months and have lost 18lb in weight and feel better than I have done for some time. You can find it on Amazon and currently only £6.99 for the paperback. BUT listen to your diabetes nurse and your GP. Good luck and welcome to the club!
     
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    I managed just with the diet for 5 years but it slowly got worse and now I'm on 4 types of drugs.

    Me too but only one of them (Gliclazide ) controls blood sugars. I was on Metformin for five years until that stopped working but I still take the tablets together with Ramipril and Statins as the doc says that together they help stop heart attacks and strokes.

    I'm not really overweight bar a bit of middle aged spread which is hardly surprising given my age but my real problem is lack of exercise as I don't do any at all
     
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    paulears

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    My Mum has type 1 - had it since she was 13, she's now 87. My mum-in-law had it too, and was a simply terrible diabetic compared to my mum. My mum NEVER used sugar in cooking - we added it afterwards. She always followed the appropriate diet. My wife's mum would sneak the odd bar of chocolate or sugary treat and simply adjust her insulin. My sister in law is a type 1 too, and is like her mother - diabetes is just a nuisance. My father in law had type 2 later in his life and controlled it with diet. I used to be a college lecturer and loads of my old students had diabetes in both versions - some with pills, some injecting and some diet controlled.

    There are some things you do need to know. In the past, the diabetic nurses were truly excellent, but now it's a very short course, and most now have never had it - so their knowledge is extremely limited. My mum goes for her hospital checkups and they tinker with her insulin and her lifestyle, telling her to do this, not to do that, yet she understands the condition far better, having had it for longer than they've been alive.

    The critical feature is that every diabetic is different, and the physical effects you feel ate unique to you. The reaction to blood sugar and the presence of keytones is the important thing for you to learn. If your sugar is higher than normal, can you detect it BEFORE you test, or is the test the first indication of the deviation from your personal norm? Most long term, diabetics become aware of the changes quite quickly and can compensate before it's an issue. For my mum, as an example, if she has a wobbly - which as she has got older and a bit more absent minded, comes more often, even when she is showing the symptoms - the drunken style rambling and slurred speech and the giggles she still resists sweet tasting food. Trying to get a sweet or even a biscuit into her can be quite difficult. Train your friends and family with the 'what ifs' - explain that if this happens, I will appear to be a bit drunk - but I'm not. Teach them what to do. The ambulance people are excellent - they know what to do. The diabetic nurses and doctors surgeries in my own experience as a family member are pretty crap. My mum's last appointment with the diabetic nurse was typical. "SO how long have you been diabetic?" "over 70 years". "Oh - you probably know more than me then. " Mum asked a question not covered on her course, so she had to come in two weeks later to see the other diabetic nurse who knew a bit more about insulin - really!

    Do your research. Test regularly and build up a pattern - how you feel, any indicators - the dryness, wee habits and then see if your blood sugar spikes at certain times in the day - if it does, can you perhaps shift a meal time forwards or backwards. If you work and meals are fixed, will you feel better if you snack a bit early, or drink more to move things on a bit faster?

    There is a feeling that the medical profession diagnose you, then scare the shit out of you, and then leave you to deal with it. Most diabetics once they get stabilised and informed can carry on as they did before. You will soon learn what foods impact your sugar levels and which don't. They will be generic, but also some specific. Once you know how fast they work and in what direction, managing your condition becomes quite easy. Remember that diabetics fall into two categories - those that allow it to become a big deal and chase their sugar levels every hour, every day - and those that do NOT allow it to have an impact at all. Just sensible stuff like rejecting one desert in a restaurant for another, and perhaps having to say goodbye to a few favourite things because they're just going to make you feel a bit poorly later.

    Double check the suggestions made by diabetic nurses who have had less training than you have. Join the British Diabetic Association and discover all kinds of tips and hints - AND - read about famous people who have the condition, manage it, and don't treat it like an illness. Type 1 or 2 diabetes is perfectly manageable. One person I know is an appealing diabetic. She frequently keels over and collapses unconscious. She sometimes breaks things own the way down. Her legs might take 6 months to heal because her circulation is terribly bad. However - the Bacardi and wine she refuses to give up probably are causing this. She smokes heavily too. Her general health is grim, her attitude to her diabetes stinks, and she's not willing to adjust her lifestyle to improve it. She is, however, still alive and in her 60s, having had it since her teens. She is the opposite of a role model. The hospitals cannot do anything with her. Sensible people can manage it easily, but the vital thing for you is to make contact with other people with it. Do NOT expect the medical professionals to understand how it feels, or how their advice works in practice. I've grown up with all these people with diabetes around me and I can assure you the condition is as bad as you allow it to be. There are some pathetically embarrassing diabetics who treat it like a life threatening illness and spend their life microscopically following medical advice, panicking when they get a sugar spike in their blood sugar. You want to be the one of those who take a balanced view and can look back an hour or so and work out what you did/did not do, and adjust.

    Diet can only go so far, so if there's not much you can cut out, maybe you need to change something else that will have an impact.

    Best wishes Paul
     
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    Blaby Loyal

    Massive thanks people. Much better/reassuring info than I'm getting from the doctors.

    I'm pretty down about it because it's added to a whole raft of other things 'wrong' with me.

    Tea last night was a pork chop (about a foot thick!), 4 quality sausages, cabbage, peas carrots and broccoli. Breakfast today was two rounds of that seeded granary bread and I'm aiming for that to be my only direct carb intake for today i.e. no further bread, potatoes, rice or pasta.

    Omelette with leftover veg in it for lunch and chilli for tea - no rice but will add extra beans.
     
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    paulears

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    So many people get diagnosed that the medical professionals are not as knowledgeable as they should be. Diabetic nurses learn so much from the patients, they can pass on - IF - they stay in the role for years. Mums new one is 22, and been doing the job for 6 months, yet she advises people with the rule book, and makes people wary, worried and ultra sensitive. My mum-in-law never ever let the condition beat her. She had it, they can't cure it but you can live a very normal life with it. You are in charge. If you go out for a meal, and you know the desert choice is all bad for you, then don't not have one, just have a bit of one, know that you will have a sugar spike, and watch for any adverse symptoms that need you to adjust your next meal to restore balance. My own reading from my family is that my mum goes on about her sugar being high quite often, and while that's not ideal, it doesn't impact anywhere near so much as having low blood sugar and potentially being much more poorly - and needing sugar. You also need to watch how you use the test strips. My mum had a spell where her sugar was higher than usual. The nurses couldn't;t work it out, suggested all sorts but it refused to go down. Then I spotted it. She'd had a new testing machine at the last appointment (the new nurses dishing the machines she'd been trained on out to the patients). Mum had trouble with the packaging, and was licking her fingers to get the strip out of the packet, contaminating the strip before she used it. Once she stopped this, the sugar went down to normal. This is the kind off thing you need to contend with. Nothing says type 2 folk get promoted to type 1, and even if you did you will cope. My mum has given herself over 50 thousand injections in her life - she shows no sign of her condition having had any impact at all on her life - apart from inconvenience and the inability to stuff herself, like I do!

    You really will be fine - the important thing is to get into the code where YOU are in charge. You control how much or how little it impacts on your life. If it means giving up a few things you like, you will get used to it. I never had custard with sugar in it until I got married. I just thought it was meant too taste like my mums. Growing up, I never had sweet stuff.

    Last bit the diabetic nurses often forget. Fruit! Sucrose behaves differently to glucose. Sometimes the fruit you normally have laying around has huge amounts of sucrose in it - quite randomly. One apple will be loaded, the rest will be normal. So if you like fruit, and it's within your diet - just watch for the ripe ones!
     
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    read about famous people who have the condition, manage it, and don't treat it like an illness. Type 1 or 2 diabetes is perfectly manageable.

    I've grown up with all these people with diabetes around me and I can assure you the condition is as bad as you allow it to be.

    Our greatest Olympian managed to win all those gold medals for rowing whilst competing with type 1 diabetes
     
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    deniser

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    Sorry to hear you have diabetes. My father and grandparents had Type 2 despite being thin and extremely active and fit so it's not always caused by lifestyle. Some people are just genetically programmed to get it.

    After the initial shock, they followed the dietary advice, tested their blood sugar regularly, took the appropriate medications, continued with their active and sociable lives and it was never really an issue. As with everything, they got used to it and it became a minor inconvenience only.

    The research about reversing it with an extreme low calorie diet is interesting and has been mentioned further up this thread. If it were me, I would definitely give this a go first before resigning myself to having it but it will be easier for some people than others.

    I would also get onto some of the specialist forums and get reading. I have an autoimmune disease where the NHS guidance on treatment differs wildly from the large body of anectodal evidence of its sufferers (never tested by clinical trial because not in the interests of drug companies so disregarded by the medical profession) so we do our own thing in conjunction with doctors who secretly agree but cannot put their heads above the parapet without being disciplined by the NHS. It has saved so many lives.

    Good luck.
     
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    Blaby Loyal

    Five days in to my new regimen and I've lost 5.5lbs already. Quite pleased and surprised at that to be honest.

    Down to two slices of bread a day and no potatoes or rice or pasta.

    Eating shedloads of eggs and a fair bit of chicken.

    Tesco does a nice bag of mixed nuts for snacks.

    Up to around 15 miles (total) of walking.
     
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